Seeking Arrangements

[Elvis 2008]

And then I start to DATY. She instantly changes her attitude, gives up resistance, and she is loving it, moaning like crazy. I go at it for a few minutes, and she's totally wet. I take off my paper shorts and start rubbing my cock on the outside of her vagina. She is going crazy. And then, I slipped it in. And for the next 30 minutes, we are having the most passionate sex ever. She does not want to stop. Her hands are all over me. She is DFK-ing me passionately. Eventually, the phone in the room rings, and she tells the manager that we will extend the time. And then we go back to having more passionate sex. I tried to take it out, to rest for a bit, but she does not want to stop. She is all over me, her hands are all over me, she is holding me tightly and will not let go, and she is kissing me passionately, and I can tell from her breathing that she is just loving the passionate sex. We keep telling each other that we love each other so much. I love you. I love you too. I love you so much. Etc. LOL.

Nope, it cannot be true. You are too old. Women only want to fuck the young good looking types and she only wants you for your money. The fact that you have not paid her means nothing. She is clearly playing the long game.

I've been texting her ever since. We keep telling each other how crazy we are about each other. I asked her if she has sex with other customers, and she swears that she does not, and that no one is allowed to, and that it is illegal. She says that she is crazy about me.

Oh, please, she is a working girl, and you are too naïve to see it.

Sorry, I had to get all that bullshit spewed at me out of my system. I have heard that BS for my encounters that are similar to yours, MW.

This kind of encounter has happened to me at least a dozen times. I had these stunning women not ask for anything, tell me how great a lover I was and I did not believe them. I was so conditioned in being a john and believing that women wanted the young studs and my money, and I was not secure. I had to not just believe I was a good lover, had to believe that I was not like the young ones who cum in 2 minutes, have no money, and are boring, insensitive, and insecure as shit. I had to not just know it but really feel it was true, and that took time. I have so much more to offer a woman now than I did 20 years ago, and I have grown so much as a person. I am not the type you show off to your girlfriends but I would want me as a boyfriend.

Mr. E, a poster on here, has the simplest definition of what a working girl is. He gives money to working girls and he does not to women who are not working girls. If you give her no money, she is not a working girl. Period.

One of the things I learned from my SBs is all these hot women with their supposedly glamourous lives and thousands of Instagram followers have close to zero in the bank which means we have a lot more power and control then we think. The thing about looks or money or whatever has to do with the attractant phase of a relationship. That matters only until you have sex. One thing in the manosphere that they are constantly bringing up is that 80% of women click on 20% of men and are constantly looking to trade up, and that is true in the attractant phase, but you are past that.

If women are content where they are, I do not see them looking to swing up. You are in the maintenance phase already and this is where the second study came in about what women valued in a relationship: 1. Kindness then 2. Support then 3. Intelligence. I think #4 is fun / having a sense of humor, but that was not in the poll. And very few people talk about the maintenance phase. It is all about the attractant phase.

I have a female friend who is so hot that she could get any guy for a night. When I asked if she could date a rich guys, she said she could but then she said, "I do not date rich guys. Rich guys are assholes. " Ever hear that from a woman before?

And I had a sugar baby I was dating back in the Dallas area for years. She was SI swim suit model material, and she started dating a guy who was so handsome he had fucked 3 of the top 10 best looking women in Dallas listed in what is called the magazine. Now I am married and fucking her as my SB all this time, so I do not care about the BF, but I got a front row seat on their relationship. She told me one time he picked her up in a Ferrari, and they got out, and everyone stared, and she loved that. That was the good part.

In addition to being an Adonis, he was really smart, talented, and unprincipled as fuck. He ripped off a bunch of people and went to prison. She married him so she could stay in touch. When in prison, he was selling nudes of her, and she got people telling her what went on when they were together. It turns out he was fucking other women the whole time as she worried constantly that was going on and had to do all she could to keep other women at bay. She got the marriage annulled and finally said to me, "I will never go out with a man who is better looking than me. " Ever hear that before from a woman?

IMO MW, guys who are good at the attractant phase but horrible at the maintenance phase are always trying to put the guys not good at the attractant phase down. They want to shake your confidence. Do not let them do it. Have your fun, MW. For you, the hard part is over with and let the good times roll.

[Steve 9696]

Thank you for all the responses Guys, Madrid it is for this trip, with London being a very very close second. Only reason for not choosing London is that I will end up there on business anyways once travel reopens. Will report after my trip!

Know you are thinking using SA but if you do the clubs The Cane and Payforit seem to have good intel tho maybe not updated for Covid. Good luck.

[SfoCowboy]

Barcelona or Madrid; both cities give you great options. Flying within Euro is cheap.

I am in the EU already, within driving distance of Germany, that's why I mentioned I can just drive to Germany but would have to fly to Madrid. About mentioning the brown non-EU part, the reason is that I have always felt a certain coolness from WGs in the north and Russians. Maybe Russians are a bit cold to everyone, I don't know and I am probably unfairly generalizing them. I know the FKKs are full of Romanian WGs, thus I am a bit skeptic about the GFE part which is quite important to me I never felt that in the south, thus I mentioned that as a possible positive point in favour of the south.

You are absolutely right, both are totally different experiences, and its pretty hard to choose one when I have not experienced FKKs already. I am sure I will experience everything in due date, but just wanted to ask exp mongers what would they go for if they were in the same situation (and kind of the same mindset as me).

[Steve 9696]

I was crushing on a few super hot 21-24 year-old MP HJ providers, but they all went nowhere. So, I stopped mongering for a while.

One day recently, I had some free time, so I checked out a new MP. I had very low expectations. Place was a dive, but my provider was pretty decent looking with a decent bod. However, she is totally uninterested, and goes through the motions, and eventually starts giving me a mechanical HJ. I decided to take some initiative, and started kissing her everywhere. She totally resists. But then I start to go south on her, and start kissing her on her pussy area. She resists, but I can tell she is kind of confused and surprised, and kind of starting to enjoy it. I keep at it. Eventually, I pull her skirt and panties off, but not without major resistance. I had to really work hard to get them off. And then I start to DATY. She instantly changes her attitude, gives up resistance, and she is loving it, moaning like crazy. I go at it for a few minutes, and she's totally wet. I take off my paper shorts and start rubbing my cock on the outside of her vagina. She is going crazy. And then, I slipped it in. And for the next 30 minutes, we are having the most passionate sex ever. She does not want to stop. Her hands are all over me. She is DFK-ing me passionately. Eventually, the phone in the room rings, and she tells the manager that we will extend the time. And then we go back to having more passionate sex. I tried to take it out, to rest for a bit, but she does not want to stop. She is all over me, her hands are all over me, she is holding me tightly and will not let go, and she is kissing me passionately, and I can tell from her breathing that she is just loving the passionate sex. We keep telling each other that we love each other so much. I love you. I love you too. I love you so much. Etc. LOL.

Eventually, after almost 2 hours of this, I have to leave, but she doesn't want to stop. It was just super passionate. Eventually, I said that I had to go, because I really had to go meet someone. After I shower, I give her $75, and she refuses it. She calls the front desk to say that we are done, and the manager is saying that we went for 3 hours, and she argues with him saying that it was only 2 hours, and saying that I should not be charged for 3 hours. And then I got her contact info and we hugged and I left.

I've been texting her ever since. We keep telling each other how crazy we are about each other. I asked her if she has sex with other customers, and she swears that she does not, and that no one is allowed to, and that it is illegal. She says that she is crazy about me.

What do you guys think? I know this is off topic, but if this is the real deal, then I will make her my SB, and so it is kind of on topic.

OMG. This is a great story. I think we often underestimate girl horniness. You were bold enough to get her worked up and her horniness and emotion was like a pent up tidal wave. So awesome. And bedding girls for free is never off topic. LOL.

To me the key play here is to not treat her like a hooker but don't let her believe you are going to get married either. A fine line. You are as good at this as any of us but I think one time you scared a girl off with too much money and it being transactional. You will have to play by ear. Prob keep money off the table at first. But she's going to be in love with you and your going to have to have a frank conversation before long that you love being WITH her but can never be more than BFGF. Best of luck and keep us posted.

[Il Drago]

SA works great for me. You are the one with the shitty attitude. You should not be able sell your crappy service. Yes, I asked you a question. You replied with a bad attitude.

Many guys contacted me & I helped them. They do not to waste time with scammers / cheaters on seeking. I did not want to help you as your attitude was shitty. You are crappy liar too. How do you know the quality of my service wen you never used it? Try seeking in Belgrade & Budapest & than you will know what I am talking about. They are eagerly waiting for suckers like you.

[Midwestern]

I was crushing on a few super hot 21-24 year-old MP HJ providers, but they all went nowhere. So, I stopped mongering for a while.

One day recently, I had some free time, so I checked out a new MP. I had very low expectations. Place was a dive, but my provider was pretty decent looking with a decent bod. However, she is totally uninterested, and goes through the motions, and eventually starts giving me a mechanical HJ. I decided to take some initiative, and started kissing her everywhere. She totally resists. But then I start to go south on her, and start kissing her on her pussy area. She resists, but I can tell she is kind of confused and surprised, and kind of starting to enjoy it. I keep at it. Eventually, I pull her skirt and panties off, but not without major resistance. I had to really work hard to get them off. And then I start to DATY. She instantly changes her attitude, gives up resistance, and she is loving it, moaning like crazy. I go at it for a few minutes, and she's totally wet. I take off my paper shorts and start rubbing my cock on the outside of her vagina. She is going crazy. And then, I slipped it in. And for the next 30 minutes, we are having the most passionate sex ever. She does not want to stop. Her hands are all over me. She is DFK-ing me passionately. Eventually, the phone in the room rings, and she tells the manager that we will extend the time. And then we go back to having more passionate sex. I tried to take it out, to rest for a bit, but she does not want to stop. She is all over me, her hands are all over me, she is holding me tightly and will not let go, and she is kissing me passionately, and I can tell from her breathing that she is just loving the passionate sex. We keep telling each other that we love each other so much. I love you. I love you too. I love you so much. Etc. LOL.

Eventually, after almost 2 hours of this, I have to leave, but she doesn't want to stop. It was just super passionate. Eventually, I said that I had to go, because I really had to go meet someone. After I shower, I give her $75, and she refuses it. She calls the front desk to say that we are done, and the manager is saying that we went for 3 hours, and she argues with him saying that it was only 2 hours, and saying that I should not be charged for 3 hours. And then I got her contact info and we hugged and I left.

I've been texting her ever since. We keep telling each other how crazy we are about each other. I asked her if she has sex with other customers, and she swears that she does not, and that no one is allowed to, and that it is illegal. She says that she is crazy about me.

What do you guys think? I know this is off topic, but if this is the real deal, then I will make her my SB, and so it is kind of on topic.

[Steve 9696]

Thanks Steve, indeed I hadn't thought about London as an option, that's a great place to consider. I will research a bit on what are the general expectations of SA girls in London.

Ok. So I admit to a bit of a disability. I am somewhat price insensitive! I forget the pound sterling is worth 1. 5 X the dollar. I tend to treat them the same. LOL. So a 200 Diva girl is $300. I suppose not exactly cheap but totally worth it. It's great fun to browse if nothing else because they list all the girls services and you can read reviews and it's all just above board because it's legal. Go to divaescort.com and go to the reviews page to find popular girls who were fucked today and read up on services etc.

I've only done Seeking twice in London and both were epic. One was a Viet 9 she wouldn't back off 250 and was worth every penny. And 350 for a Colombiana when I was desperate. But she brought her friend because it was her birthday. So we had a five hour Colombiana duo extravaganza (dinner and dancing included) for that 350 .

But yeah with SA there's dinner and drinks and all that too. So you are prob at $600/ night in London. I think Elvis had it right and Spain might be your best bet. But if you do go straight up incall escort then London is a top destination.

[Pessimist]

BTW, I love Russian girls. Can't think of any bad experience with a Russian girl, ever. Ditto re: Ukrainians. I wish I had more of those near me. If you have a shot at Russian girls, go for it and ignore their initial coolness if there is any. Sex is physical; ignore the vibe and have fun. They will come around.

[Elvis 2008]

What do you think I should do?

Europe is one of the few places in the world I think having a car is kind of unnecessary.

I know FKKs are unique but if you are a one shot guy.

Average temps in Madrid in summer are highs in the high 80's and lows in the high 60's. Barcelona highs are mid 80's and you are 5 X less likely to have rain in those places than Frankfurt. Frankfurt has average highs in the high 70's and lows in the high 50's. For me, that means Spain over Germany in a landslide, but that is your call.

There is a vibrant escort scene in Madrid and Barcelona, and I saw many women in the 100 to 200 Euro range who were very doable. I think there are brothels in Spain where 50 Euros buys you a beauty. For a one shot guy, the women issue is a toss up.

You said there is more to do in Spain and liked Spanish women better.

Unlike in the USA where sex for money is forbidden and shamed, in countries where women are allowed to be working girls and not shamed as much, the sexual quality of working girls often beats those of sugar babies. I have not found that to be true in the USA. Not at all. Sugar baby sex in the USA blew working girl sex away by a mile.

All that is left then is the sugaring. I think we have covered the Latin v. German stereotype here so we will not go over it. So really it comes down to that for me and what your goals are.

European women do not have the reputation of being trafficked and do not need a visa. For you then is sugaring about having better sex or finding a long term partner? If it is not to find partner, then I would not even bother with sugaring. That is a huge reason to sugar in Mexico versus other Latin countries, the visa. Mexican women can get visas far easier than others, and I had one Mexican hottie I would fly in and fuck the hell out of. I wish I could do that with my current girl.

Spain has easy immigration for women from Latin America, and you can find the best of Colombia and Brazil there. Unless you really like German / Romanian women, to me, it is Spain in a landslide.

[Pessimist]

I am in the EU already, within driving distance of Germany, that's why I mentioned I can just drive to Germany but would have to fly to Madrid. About mentioning the brown non-EU part, the reason is that I have always felt a certain coolness from WGs in the north and Russians. Maybe Russians are a bit cold to everyone, I don't know and I am probably unfairly generalizing them. I know the FKKs are full of Romanian WGs, thus I am a bit skeptic about the GFE part which is quite important to me I never felt that in the south, thus I mentioned that as a possible positive point in favour of the south.

You are absolutely right, both are totally different experiences, and its pretty hard to choose one when I have not experienced FKKs already. I am sure I will experience everything in due date, but just wanted to ask exp mongers what would they go for if they were in the same situation (and kind of the same mindset as me).

Well, I am not brown, so I can't say for sure. But then again, I have received indifferent service from WGs, and perhaps they gave good service to some others. Who knows why that could be? I have received good service and indifferent service from the same girls depending on the day.

I see brown, black, yellow and white dudes in these fuck clubs all the time and by and large they all seem to be happy to just be there. I would not overthink it. Just go, give it a try, and form your own opinion based on your own experience. If anything, you need multiple, repeat experiences to form a reasonably accurate view. And circumstances keep changing, so the reality itself could change over time. So, again, I come back to "just visit the FKKs and decide if they are for you or not" mantra.

BTW, if I read Steve correctly, he is saying he uses a service called Diva / others in London. I know he has written more than a report on this, just search these threads. He is here, can elaborate. I am not so sure if London is a great place to visit just to hook up with new sugarbabes. It is a super expensive city and the simple rule of thumb is that the expectations of girls with regards to allowance etc in such cities are quite high. When I paid for SBs in the expensive cities in the US, it was always higher or significantly higher than it is in heartland or the South / SE. Makes ample sense too.

If you are already in EU, why are you not trying to look up seeking in your vicinity for girls? Why come here and waste time? Pretty much most places in W Eu are fertile grounds for finding sugarbabes. Instead of going somewhere else, find what is available where you are at the moment.

[Member #4703]

"I am a brown non-EU male in his mid 30's, fit and reasonably attractive. " - that hardly matters when visiting WGs. Who you are and what you are like does matter for sugarbabes.
he FKKs you plan to visit are open in July, if that's when you go. Otherwise, you will be frustrated enormously. It will be early days, no idea if the quality of girls and their service will be any good. Check this site for reports on pricing and session quality.

I am in the EU already, within driving distance of Germany, that's why I mentioned I can just drive to Germany but would have to fly to Madrid. About mentioning the brown non-EU part, the reason is that I have always felt a certain coolness from WGs in the north and Russians. Maybe Russians are a bit cold to everyone, I don't know and I am probably unfairly generalizing them. I know the FKKs are full of Romanian WGs, thus I am a bit skeptic about the GFE part which is quite important to me I never felt that in the south, thus I mentioned that as a possible positive point in favour of the south.

You are absolutely right, both are totally different experiences, and its pretty hard to choose one when I have not experienced FKKs already. I am sure I will experience everything in due date, but just wanted to ask exp mongers what would they go for if they were in the same situation (and kind of the same mindset as me).

[Steve 9696]

I have to disagree but that is a discussion for another topic.

Hey we are not narrow minded here. We love a good debate! What's your POV? Spill your guts on this.

[Member #4703]

Yeah I suppose as Pessimist says if you don't care for the multiple girls and sauna type thing FKK mya not be for you. If you didn't like the club scene then I am guessing you won't like FKK much. I like both.

If you are setting up a "try for sugar baby but with failover" you might consider UK. As I have written many times Diva Escorts has amazing Romanian babes and so reliable. So spend time surfing SA. And pick out a couple girls. Try to get that end to end dating experience that only SA provides. But if you have a date fail, just book a last minute Diva girl and get your rocks off at her place.

I once had a civvy date fail at 11:45 and I was fucking Flory at her place by 12:15! It's a great escape hatch.

Thanks Steve, indeed I hadn't thought about London as an option, that's a great place to consider. I will research a bit on what are the general expectations of SA girls in London.

[Oneminuteboy]

"I am a brown non-EU male in his mid 30's, fit and reasonably attractive. " - that hardly matters when visiting WGs. Who you are and what you are like does matter for sugarbabes.

I have to disagree but that is a discussion for another topic.

[Steve 9696]

"I am a brown non-EU male in his mid 30's, fit and reasonably attractive. " - that hardly matters when visiting WGs. Who you are and what you are like does matter for sugarbabes.

Flying to EU just for sugarbabes does not make sense to me. Not sure where you are flying from. Unless your local girls are not appealing to you, why not do your SD / SB'ing locally?

FKKs and SB scene are totally different. Also, FKKs and typical brothels are different in my view. I visit FKKs to spend all day, relax, eat or drink, ogle the 100+ naked chicks, flirt, and enjoy multiple fucks a day.

To me, FKK and SB are not either / or. They each have their place.

Personally, I love German cities as much as I do Spanish cities. But if you like Spain more, so be it.

I have used seeking for sugarbabes when visiting Spain. Sessions lasted a couple of hours or more; I did not ask them to stay overnight.

Make sure the FKKs you plan to visit are open in July, if that's when you go. Otherwise, you will be frustrated enormously. It will be early days, no idea if the quality of girls and their service will be any good. Check this site for reports on pricing and session quality.

Yeah I suppose as Pessimist says if you don't care for the multiple girls and sauna type thing FKK mya not be for you. If you didn't like the club scene then I am guessing you won't like FKK much. I like both.

If you are setting up a "try for sugar baby but with failover" you might consider UK. As I have written many times Diva Escorts has amazing Romanian babes and so reliable. So spend time surfing SA. And pick out a couple girls. Try to get that end to end dating experience that only SA provides. But if you have a date fail, just book a last minute Diva girl and get your rocks off at her place.

I once had a civvy date fail at 11:45 and I was fucking Flory at her place by 12:15! It's a great escape hatch.