Seeking Arrangements

[J Janni]

Had another meeting with my total unicorn of an utterly wild, crazy SB. We did some things and pushed some limits that left us feeling a little. Dazed and me very guilty.

It's hard not to overstep in the moment because she is so submissive and we've agreed in future to set limits with unclouded minds. She isn't upset we did what we did, she just doesn't feel she can cope with it emotionally regularly and I've felt like a total prick for pushing things that far. Still, she feels like what happened was a mutual thing. We egg each other on.

Very very fond of this girl. But we've both agreed we're bad for each other at this current moment in time. I've told her I'm leaving the UK (hopefully in the next few days) for a month or so.

If she's still around when I return (I've told her I seriously would like to hear she's found the dream sugar daddy she needs or preferably sorts her life out and gets out of this), I want try and meet her in a more sustainable way for both of us.

She also knows I'm not going to be the sugar daddy all the girls want and that future meetings will be far more sporadic. She still seems totally enamoured with me and the sex we have. And happy to meet on whatever terms I set, as infrequently as I want / will be able to in future.

I'm still not sure if we will ever be able to limit ourselves and I worry about her stability long term. She has a lid on things at the moment, but I can see things going south quickly.

Not sure I'm cut out for this less. Commercial. Form of paid sex / relationship. I'm struggling to let her go even though I think that will probably be in both our interests. My only previous experience with a similar situation (my Gambian sweetheart) I also struggled to let go.

My head is in a total mess over all this. I'm not calling love because I genuinely believe it isn't, it's an infatuation with a totally amazing sexual connection with a totally enthralling and cool as fuck temptress.

Really really hope that my wish for her comes true because I'm not convinced I should see her again or that I will be able to resist it.

[Pessimist]

Actually, a mid-40's guy dating a 23 year old is not unusual particularly in Latin America. At that age, I would routinely walk into a young Latin American club with friends and colleagues and meet English-speaking babes. I never felt out of place with a twentysomething at the club or elsewhere.

I don't know your foreign language skills, but I have one general view on foreign girls who speak English well. They have worked hard to learn English knowing it could be their ticket to a better life. When I was in my thirties and forties, the Latin girls who knew some English would perk up when they heard me talking to my amigos.

So I guess I'm saying that there are several factors that make that age differential work well abroad.

That is my impression as well, that in LatAm and E European countries, older men with power and money are actually attractive dates for hot, young babes. Don't know if I got this "wisdom" from watching too many cheesy Hollywood movies, LOL.

Yes, foreign babes who know a smattering of English may want to date or hook up with English speaking white dudes, especially if you dress well and act gentlemanly. I can see that easily.

[Pessimist]

Interesting historical background on Seeking.

What is your take on "No Strings Attached" and "Discretion"? These Seeking descriptors seem sexually provocative. Obviously, FWB spells it out clearly.

There also the many attractive, young women posing in skimpy bikinis. That certainly confuses a few newbies, but these girls have to distinguish themselves one way or another. Attractive girls have to flaunt it particularly if they want a long-term sugar daddy.

Sorry, missed your post.

I think NSA and discretion are ok, no? They don't connote sex in anyway. NSA simply is an equivalent of at will employment? That neither the dude nor the girl are exclusive to each other, nor obligated into any long term arrangement? Discretion is just wanting to keep it quiet, I. E. No movie dates, or at highly visible restaurants etc.

The thing is, the above are my interpretations of the law, but I am not a lawyer. And when it comes to SA, what is provable in a court of law is important but we don't want to even get to that level. So, I am with you that it is prudent to cut out any words and phrases that smack of paid sex.

[WyattEarp]

My marriage license was like a license of abuse, and one of the things that opened up my eyes was my asking a 23 year old American sugar baby of mine if she would date me if I got a divorce. Her answer shocked me. She said yes if I gave up all the other women. I was mid 40's at the time, and her friends called her Angie Everhart because she looked so much like that supermodel.

Actually, a mid-40's guy dating a 23 year old is not unusual particularly in Latin America. At that age, I would routinely walk into a young Latin American club with friends and colleagues and meet English-speaking babes. I never felt out of place with a twentysomething at the club or elsewhere.

I don't know your foreign language skills, but I have one general view on foreign girls who speak English well. They have worked hard to learn English knowing it could be their ticket to a better life. When I was in my thirties and forties, the Latin girls who knew some English would perk up when they heard me talking to my amigos.

So I guess I'm saying that there are several factors that make that age differential work well abroad.

[Akibono]

You are welcome although I don't think I added any useful info. One of my key interests in joining this forum initially was to understand pricing. Naturally you'd want to know if you are paying too much. Or if you are losing out on girls because you are offering too little. Unlike in an FKK, there is no reliable way to find pricing for sugar dating as you don't know the other SDs.

Unfortunately, it's kinda difficult to find pricing because many guys don't follow any local rules on pricing. One gentleman from Tampa recently posted he willingly gives $1 K per session to a girl. To me that is an excess payment but of course who am I to say so and what if the girl is a supermodel quality?

If you do most of your sugar dating in a single city, you can get a sense of prices over time because you will see the responses from the girls to your offers.

If you are city hopping, it is tough to know what is the local price. You just have to go with your instinct.

One of the things I have seen post Covid is that the number of girls who demand upfront payment has increased massively. Prior to Covid, you could meet girls for a drink or lunch and get to know and if liking each other, schedule a sex date. Now, they want gas money or some other money and of course they can just take the money and block you and you never got to even meet them. So, how are you supposed to meet girls in a new city if you are there for just 2 or 3 days?.

Never be desperate. I always take the I can leave it approach. The excessively priced girls tend to be worse since they can have a princess attitude. If you are visiting short time or have no experience, you just have to pay more. You find out the real price soon.

[Ggekko2009]

Unfortunately, it's kinda difficult to find pricing because many guys don't follow any local rules on pricing. One gentleman from Tampa recently posted he willingly gives $1 K per session to a girl. To me that is an excess payment but of course who am I to say so and what if the girl is a supermodel quality?

Ironically, I know more about markets in other countries but not in my backyard. Plus being able to be speak four languages do help get me around and make my interactions with the girls overseas more enjoyable. Anyway, hopping to pick up on my fifth one should I get to travel to South America more often. Learning a language through immersion is always the fastest way for me and what better way than through sex, LOL.

In my backyard, I tend to go with the agency route. Straight forward with clear cut expectation. However, it feels rushed and I no longer enjoy it as much. Now that I have started using SA, I might as well find out what is possible in my backyard. However, I am also finding it to be so exhausting in many aspects. I don't really know how to explain it yet, but that feeling of freedom and excitement are simply absent. Instead, I have to worry about the logistics. I will give it another month to see how everything goes for me with SA.

And yeah, I am also always weary and on the look for the scam artists.

[Steve 9696]

Tbh, we are saying the same thing. Yes, some amount of allure, good feelings, playfulness and good vibes make sex more pleasurable. Even hard core mongers love more than just slam wham banging. But that is not love. At least not my definition of love. Anyone who has been in loving relationships with anyone. Your parents, children, spouses, long term GF, others. Know how deep and intense that is, how caring for each other works, how you give them more than possible and want to keep giving w / o expecting quid pro quo.

In a sugar relationship I want only quid pro quo. I don't necessarily Want free stuff and I will not give when I don't receive. Any relationship that has that quid pro quo expectation is not love.

It is possible to have expectations of allure, wanting more than just physical sex, in a sugar dating. That is like in FKKs, some guys want the girls they just fucked to wave to them in the lounge and smile, perhaps sit down for lunch once in a while, just be pleasant. Those are the things which lead to repeat sales for the girls, just like the allure and playfulness etc lead more repeat business for the sugarbabe.

But is that love? Not in my book.

Super funny you should mention this because Shayla and I were just talking about how fucked up Western concepts of Love are and that it comes down to being an overloaded word. The Greeks had 7 words to express the different types. Makes waaaay more sense. Fwiw Shayla and I have Eros, Philia, and Ludus. But not Storge and Pragma which is what you are talking about primarily above.

[The Cane]

Many girls seem to have the guy throw the number at her, if they bring it up, but I feel like that's not good because if I say 4000, says going to counter with something higher most likely.

When I was on the site, I wouldn't put a money offer out first. Girls would try to get me to, but I wouldn't. I would usually just reply with, "What would make you happy"? That tended to work in getting the girl to name a figure first. Only one time did a chick get mad and decided to stop talking to me. I didn't give a damn! Could have been undercover for all I know trying to set me up for "solicitation."

[NahkMD]

You don't want these girls in your schedule which will cause you more pain than what you are negotiating down.

Yea that would suck big time, that's why I won't bother at. I have no issue paying their price but if the date goes bad or worse no sex, your out a good amount:

So my other question would be then, do you think its better for the guy to ask her rate, something more along the line of "I'd want to give you a gift what do you have in mind?

Many girls seem to have the guy throw the number at her, if they bring it up, but I feel like that's not good because if I say 4000, says going to counter with something higher most likely.

[Pessimist]

Greatly appreciate this information. It allows me to establish a range on what a right price ought to be based on the different parameters. Kind of like google flight telling me if the price is within a typical range.

You are welcome although I don't think I added any useful info. One of my key interests in joining this forum initially was to understand pricing. Naturally you'd want to know if you are paying too much. Or if you are losing out on girls because you are offering too little. Unlike in an FKK, there is no reliable way to find pricing for sugar dating as you don't know the other SDs.

Unfortunately, it's kinda difficult to find pricing because many guys don't follow any local rules on pricing. One gentleman from Tampa recently posted he willingly gives $1 K per session to a girl. To me that is an excess payment but of course who am I to say so and what if the girl is a supermodel quality?

If you do most of your sugar dating in a single city, you can get a sense of prices over time because you will see the responses from the girls to your offers.

If you are city hopping, it is tough to know what is the local price. You just have to go with your instinct.

One of the things I have seen post Covid is that the number of girls who demand upfront payment has increased massively. Prior to Covid, you could meet girls for a drink or lunch and get to know and if liking each other, schedule a sex date. Now, they want gas money or some other money and of course they can just take the money and block you and you never got to even meet them. So, how are you supposed to meet girls in a new city if you are there for just 2 or 3 days? In your own city you can stay patient and wait for a real, genuine person.

This is one of the unfortunate changes that happened on SA. For sure, the number of scam artists has skyrocketed.

[Pessimist]

Well I'm going to go contrarian here and say it's good to fall a bit in love. For me, being smitten with a girl is half the allure. I can pay any pro for great sex. What I can't buy is the feeling that she's my girl that she truly enjoys being with me and can't wait to see me again and fuck me for all she's worth.

I am absolutely this was with Shayla now. I'm calling best girlfriend ever. Yes I drop her $$ loosely coordinated with our visits. But damn it feels more real than any relationship I've ever had. Including my marriage. LOL.

There are so many "we adore each other" signs and moments that I just can't enumerate. It feels like a million bucks to be with her and I miss her when we are apart. At some point will this lead to crushing defeat when we inevitably part ways? Yep. I'll probably ball my eyes out. But that's what I love. It's real. It's human. And I'm down for the whole ride.

Tbh, we are saying the same thing. Yes, some amount of allure, good feelings, playfulness and good vibes make sex more pleasurable. Even hard core mongers love more than just slam wham banging. But that is not love. At least not my definition of love. Anyone who has been in loving relationships with anyone. Your parents, children, spouses, long term GF, others. Know how deep and intense that is, how caring for each other works, how you give them more than possible and want to keep giving w / o expecting quid pro quo.

In a sugar relationship I want only quid pro quo. I don't necessarily Want free stuff and I will not give when I don't receive. Any relationship that has that quid pro quo expectation is not love.

It is possible to have expectations of allure, wanting more than just physical sex, in a sugar dating. That is like in FKKs, some guys want the girls they just fucked to wave to them in the lounge and smile, perhaps sit down for lunch once in a while, just be pleasant. Those are the things which lead to repeat sales for the girls, just like the allure and playfulness etc lead more repeat business for the sugarbabe.

But is that love? Not in my book.

[Alex7J]

Well I'm going to go contrarian here and say it's good to fall a bit in love. For me, being smitten with a girl is half the allure. I can pay any pro for great sex. What I can't buy is the feeling that she's my girl that she truly enjoys being with me and can't wait to see me again and fuck me for all she's worth.

I am absolutely this was with Shayla now. I'm calling best girlfriend ever. Yes I drop her $$ loosely coordinated with our visits. But damn it feels more real than any relationship I've ever had. Including my marriage. LOL.

There are so many "we adore each other" signs and moments that I just can't enumerate. It feels like a million bucks to be with her and I miss her when we are apart. At some point will this lead to crushing defeat when we inevitably part ways? Yep. I'll probably ball my eyes out. But that's what I love. It's real. It's human. And I'm down for the whole ride.

Cheers mate and enjoy the ride.

Its indeed beautiful.

Peace.

[PopamRaj]

Well I'm going to go contrarian here and say it's good to fall a bit in love. For me, being smitten with a girl is half the allure. I can pay any pro for great sex. What I can't buy is the feeling that she's my girl that she truly enjoys being with me and can't wait to see me again and fuck me for all she's worth.

I am absolutely this was with Shayla now. I'm calling best girlfriend ever. Yes I drop her $$ loosely coordinated with our visits. But damn it feels more real than any relationship I've ever had. Including my marriage. LOL.

There are so many "we adore each other" signs and moments that I just can't enumerate. It feels like a million bucks to be with her and I miss her when we are apart. At some point will this lead to crushing defeat when we inevitably part ways? Yep. I'll probably ball my eyes out. But that's what I love. It's real. It's human. And I'm down for the whole ride.

Totally with you Steve. For me the difference between SA girls and the rest is the added dimension of an emotional connection. Where I live in the middle east, you can walk into any bar and walk out with a woman to spend an hour or a night with. Easy peasy. So getting laid is not the allure- it's two other things. First, it's meeting someone who wouldn't be caught dead in such a bar. And I guess, rightfully so, we all rank that at the top of the list. But for me right up there with it is the opportunity for an emotional connection (though I must admit there have been a few bar encounters that have become regular over the years which is kind of fun. Guess I'm a creature of habit and once I like something / somebody that really works for me, I kinda can't be arsed to go through the pain of finding it / them again). Surprisingly I hit a bit of jackpot on my first two SA encounters and one of them is in the same vein as your Shayla. Loads of "I really like you" moments that put an added spring in my steps. Great acting by her. Maybe? Who cares as long as it feels semi-real for me while it lasts. This is why I haven't been back to the clubs / bars for over three months. SA girls are proving to meet both my physical and emotional needs for the moment.

[Steve 9696]

Well I'm going to go contrarian here and say it's good to fall a bit in love. For me, being smitten with a girl is half the allure. I can pay any pro for great sex. What I can't buy is the feeling that she's my girl that she truly enjoys being with me and can't wait to see me again and fuck me for all she's worth.

I am absolutely this was with Shayla now. I'm calling best girlfriend ever. Yes I drop her $$ loosely coordinated with our visits. But damn it feels more real than any relationship I've ever had. Including my marriage. LOL.

There are so many "we adore each other" signs and moments that I just can't enumerate. It feels like a million bucks to be with her and I miss her when we are apart. At some point will this lead to crushing defeat when we inevitably part ways? Yep. I'll probably ball my eyes out. But that's what I love. It's real. It's human. And I'm down for the whole ride.

[Elvis 2008]

I hope your point gets taken in the right way. It's been discussed many times here and other country forums. I think everyone here is realistic.
First and foremost in all cases, money and a green card appear to be the glue of the relationship.

I know of one instance where a friend's business abruptly went south and the young foreign wife immediately left green card in tow. He was devastated. No money, no big house, no love.

Yeah, I should point out that the women I was talking about are not typical. Most women I saw were the hos types. I just weeded them out and moved on.