Seeking Arrangements

[Steve 9696]

Lest you think all my SA dates are fruitful let me share the most interesting fail that happened recently. The moral of the story is if you feel like the chemistry is off a bit youre right. It's just not there and forcing it doesn't help.

So recall I had the closed mouth kiss with Arianna to end the night. But by text she assures me she's a passionate girl just shy at first. We agree to meetup again and I use the same line I used with Sarah "expand on that kiss" and she seems down to do so.

We meet at a little dive bar and have some snacks and drinks. Her drink is not very good and she's not drinking much but I am throwing them back. She's again awkward and shy and I am pretty sure this is going nowhere. Again in direct mode I say "I find you confusing. Your a really nice girl but I'm afraid we have no chemistry. We could do one of two things. Go to your car and make out and see or go to a hotel and make out and see. " She says she's on her period. I say that's ok we can figure fun without that. She says ok let's go to the hotel. I was really surprised.

So I book a last minute booking and we are in the room 10 minutes later. She's got a headache and doesn't want to drink (so her shields remain high). I'll spare the gory details but the kissing is pretty lame but I keep working some game. Eventually it's clear I am down for a BJ but she literally says "I don't give blowjobs". And I tell her that's super odd because I've never been with a girl that didn't. Again Long story short she eventually blows me and it's a very good BBBJ. But like totally without life or passion or chemistry. I bless her with a hot load in her mouth regardless because her technique is excellent. But it's just weird. Like being blown by your sister as a favor or something.

I did CashApp her some $$ which seems only fair but Next day we agree the chemistry is not there and move on. But frankly on very good terms. Like we gave it a go and good luck finding ur thing.

Oh well can't win them all. A few takeaways:

1. Awesome text vibe does not always lead to awesome in person vibe. Tho I still think its a leading indicator.
2. If u think the chemistry is off it probably is. But that doesnt mean I wont get off. Mixed results here recall I bedded Jesse right after she said I cant have sex with a guy I just met and it was passionate. And I managed to eek out a BJ here but mechanical.
3. Sex without passion just aint that great (for me)
4. When something feels off just say It. U can work thru it.
5. A fail doesnt have to be nasty. It can be a friendly fail.

[Akibono]

Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.

The whole idea of the pay for play scheme is to have as close to a sure thing as possible. If you are back to a traditional dating scheme where you only get sex if she deems you are worthy, you might as well go back to ordinary dating. These gals get hundreds of hits, and there are enough fools to pay in the hopes of success that your chance of success is 1%. As it stands, you are going to have to throw a bit of money out there just to play. No reason or logic in paying for the hopes of getting something. Steve is exactly right. Move on.

[DramaFree11]

Steve is, as is usual, totally right.

I personally have not jumped in the SA game yet (waiting to be vaccinated), but I do lurk on SA to see what is out there and fantasize about how I'll play that game. And I'll say I'm actually impressed with how transparent many women are. Many are totally open saying that they are looking for online only relationships, or in person but no sex, or even "no guarantees but let's see where this goes" (IE "I'm maintaining the power in this relationship." To me, that would be a hard and immediate pass, absolutely no interest in engaging, but I do respect how they set their boundaries up front so you can not waste your time.

On-line is totally a no go. Big waste of time. They are also going to ask for an allowance, Hell no, get a Life Coach cheaper.

[AmericanPi]

Well the short answer is run away. She's saying she wants something for nothing. Nope.

Longer answer is why did she even ask this? What did U say that make her think you are offering money for sex because this should never happen. The discussion should never get this explicit. Also is this discussion on SA or have you gone to text? I don't think I've ever had a discussion about a meetup right on SA. We always chat enough and get comfortable and go offline.

Easy thing is just ghost her. I guarantee she is not worth your time with that kind of dialog.

Steve is, as is usual, totally right.

I personally have not jumped in the SA game yet (waiting to be vaccinated), but I do lurk on SA to see what is out there and fantasize about how I'll play that game. And I'll say I'm actually impressed with how transparent many women are. Many are totally open saying that they are looking for online only relationships, or in person but no sex, or even "no guarantees but let's see where this goes" (IE "I'm maintaining the power in this relationship." To me, that would be a hard and immediate pass, absolutely no interest in engaging, but I do respect how they set their boundaries up front so you can not waste your time.

[Elvis 2008]

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.

Your gut is right. Anytime you sense that she is a scam artist she probably is.

[DramaFree11]

Steve9696 hit the nail on the head. She is asking for compensation for coffee. This is a huge red flag in my book. My general rule is not to hand over any cash until after we have sealed our arrangement. It's the fairest way.

Cut bait and pull up some other fish.

Run. I had an issue with this over the weekend. We agreed if there was connection, we would start an arrangement after we had drinks. She was nice, but did not dress up for the meeting and I was just not that attracted to her physically. I agreed to meet a second time, I offered to pay for her Uber. She declined then asked for money, I walked off. She later begged for Uber fair.

[CarloRogue]

Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.

As everyone else says, drop her, but here's how I would break it down and why you would fail to get what you want, in bullet form:

- She's establishing the conditions and setting up the coffee date, and you have no frame (that's why you're asking the board what to do). The relationship, should there ever be one, would be lop-sided and inverted. As the pickup community would say, you need to establish your frame.

- Never discuss anything transactional on SA, even if she brings it up first and even if it is indirect. I would delete the thread and block her, so the moderators can't pin it on you in any way. Personally, I don't even exchange such details on a burner phone. Only in person, but that's just me and I know others are less risk averse.

- If you're looking for a genuine GND that likes older men, as I am, these types never bring up compensation in advance of a meeting, and usually let you take the lead.

- Her grammar sucks. She wrote a run-on sentence without punctuation, meaning she spent no time on it and doesn't care how it comes across. In effect, she doesn't value you and she's not trying to prove her worth. Or, her education is lacking. Either way, it's one of my flags. Not a hard & fast one, and if she had other compensating qualities, I can look past it, but in an environment of abundance, it's usually a disqualifier for me.

- On a slightly positive note, I do like coffee dates for a first meet (but uncompensated of course). If a girl asks for a fancy dinner on the first meet, it indicates a bit of sharkiness and materialism. But back to the first bullet, the man needs to set the date.

CR.

[LshRoomer]

Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.

Steve9696 hit the nail on the head. She is asking for compensation for coffee. This is a huge red flag in my book. My general rule is not to hand over any cash until after we have sealed our arrangement. It's the fairest way.

Cut bait and pull up some other fish.

02.

[Ailton]

Hi you all,

Haven't really posted much here but used SA when I was in Lisbon and here is my report.

Girls quite a lot of them some seem to be scammers or just try and take advantage of you don't send any money before any meeting.

That should be obvious but you never know. Met with 6 girls PPM 2-300 3 of them stayed the night one of them for free.

Some of the girls take way to long to answer repeated with 2 of them only 1 of them I wouldn't have repeated with.

Thank you for your contribution. I will add your results to our table. I had hoped Lisbon would be more like 100 - 200 EUR on average. Happy to see that you havn't been dissapointed as far as their looks are concerned.

Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.

Your guts already gave you the soundest advice you could possibly get: A person that genuinely wants to build trust before engaging in more, will not charge for initial meetings. Someone who is testing the boundaries, makes you the hope of "let's see where it goes" and wants you to to pay their bills in return for platonic dates, is highly likely trying to milk you.

[Steve 9696]

Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.

Well the short answer is run away. She's saying she wants something for nothing. Nope.

Longer answer is why did she even ask this? What did U say that make her think you are offering money for sex because this should never happen. The discussion should never get this explicit. Also is this discussion on SA or have you gone to text? I don't think I've ever had a discussion about a meetup right on SA. We always chat enough and get comfortable and go offline.

Easy thing is just ghost her. I guarantee she is not worth your time with that kind of dialog.

[Luminous]

Folks -- Need your opinion. Here is the message I received from a chick on SA.

"I don't have sex for money to meet up have coffee you can help me with my bills and we can see where it goes".

What do you think? Should I invest anything with the hope it may lead to something in the future?

My gut is to pass as it likely is just a carrot being dangled with no intention of sex in the future but wanted to get thoughts of the experienced members on this board.

[Mongerer88]

Happy New Year to you, too.

I haven't explored the Montreal sugar scene. There are just so many escorts I want to see there in the $200-$300 Canadian dollar range, and so little time when I am there, that it never makes sense. I just emailed an escort there today to say Hello,. I probably wasted her time, but she was nice about it. I just wanted to get her in my contacts for when travel to Montreal is doable again.

I guess Seeking is so firmly entrenched in its position that it is not part of the sex work industry that it does not feel the need to go offshore. A great number of the USA Independent escorts I see now have Netherlands websites, so it certainly is the trend.

There was one USA Escort I follow on Twitter who got irritated at the perceived superiority of one of her Seeking friends and tweeted about showing her the posts she found online with a link to the Seeking profile that detailed the Seeking lady's prices and services. I found it amusing.

Time will tell if the publicity and those types of public posts ever create problems. It is certainly a different system than anything else, so who knows. Seeking doesn't ever seem to cross the line that the USA Government will argue in the Backpage case (if it ever goes to trial) that can't be crossed. Backpage allegedly would tell a customer whose ad was rejected due to solicitation concerns as to how to compose an acceptable ad. Seeking just kicks people off.

Hey Mongerer88, Happy New Year!

Since you have a lot of experience in Montreal, I was wondering if you have played in the MTL sugar bowl. It would seem to be a great city for SA. I always found Montreal women to be more libertine compared to other North American women.

In regards to SA being deemed a sexual procurement site, a MTL buddy of ours was banned from SA for sending out messages to the girls asking "how much?" and even maybe "condom required?' Haha. Anyways, I don't think he is poor or cheap. He's just a bit impatient.

Even if the SA site was domiciled in a tolerant country, isn't possible the USA Law enforcement could monkey around with the site through USA Internet providers? There is a Canadian escort ad site mentioned often where I can't see the photos here in the USA However, other sites that were shutdown by USA LE have come right back based in the Netherlands. It's all quite confusing and I don't think USA Law enforcement is sure of what is doing. They play sort of a sporadic whack-a-mole game with the internet sex sites. I'm also sure that international internet governance prevents them from trying to run around censoring the global internet.

[Elvis 2008]

Yes, there has been a lot of great information here and yes sadly I see SA going the way it did in the USA in a lot of other countries with guys using it as a an escort site that will attract the scammers. SA has been gold in Colombia, silver in Mexico, and quite frankly shit now in the USA. In 2009, SA in the USA was gold.

I wrote a long post about my stories, and I think it would bore everyone so I am going to cut to the chase and tell you what I learned in the past year: what I have learned and the advice I will give.

The first and unpleasant truth I will give is that when you are giving women money with the expectation of sex, she is a working girl and you are a john. The lines "No, she really likes me. I am just giving her money. It is monthly so she does not feel like a working girl ETC" are all bullshit.

A pleasant truth was that I found that hot women abroad were willing to fuck me without a promise of money. I got all bogged down into the definition of a working girl, and Mr. Enternational had a much simpler one. Any women you pay money to for sex is a working girl, and he made the stipulation that he liked working girls. Any woman who asks "how much" is a working girl and I promised not to delude yourself.

The second pleasant truth, and this is something Mr. E is wrong about, is that all the women on seeking are working girls. I will make an exception for the USA but I have met women in other countries several times fucked them without offering anything up front. I have even found women who desperately try to show me they are not about money. The funniest experience was I gave one woman money. She later tried to give it back to me and told me that she loved me. With her, I insisted she keep it.

The second unpleasant truth is that Western men have had their egos so beaten up that they do not believe my second pleasant truth. The guys here have made it a mantra that these women really want to hang with men their own age from their own countries. There is this idea that the women are telling us they love us so they can suck us dry or if not that, doing the long con.

Western men are oblivious to the state these women are in. I want to ask the Western men: have you seen the living conditions of these women? Their economic prospects? And the men these supposedly want to date?

I will embellish this point with a story. The breakup with my fiancé had left my ego bruised. I didn't propose to a hot woman I just met, but I mentioned a fiancé visa to her as a way we could get to know each other better. She asked herself what was wrong with me that I proposed to her so fast. She kept me at a distance because she did not want to introduce me to her family. Once she distanced herself, I did likewise and kind of forgot about her.

She asked what was wrong. I said we had no future. She admitted to me that her family would probably not accept me and said that she wanted to be friends. I said that was fine and then she sent me a bunch of nude videos which meant we were going to be friends with benefits.

I wanted to ask her. "So your last boyfriend, the one who cheated on you, gave you a STD, beat you, and you spent all your money on, was your family okay with him but not me?" I realized asking that would get me in trouble. I then asked myself, "So your concession prize is fucking a hot women who is totally in love with you, and you do not have to pay her, make a commitment, or meet her family?" Oh darn.

The third pleasant truth is that I learned the best way to have a woman want to commit to you is to not give her one. The hottest SB I have is a Mexican woman. I knew that we could only have fun together because she would spend every dime I had if we got serious. Here is a woman that 9 out of 10 men would die to have as their wife appearance wise, and I am uninterested. She asked me what our future was and I said, "We continue to have fun and when the relationship is not fun, we go our own ways. " She said I was being mean to her and then she fucked the shit out of me.

The third unpleasant truth is that it took me too long to understand the third pleasant truth.

The fourth unpleasant truth is that men are getting fucked in the relationship game and instead of doing something about it are whining about it. I would spend money about both my ex-wife and ex-fiance and they would turn me down for sex. My ex put me in a horrible position. She quit giving me blowjobs and then would ***** about how I was cheating on her. My ex-fiance was the same way. The more I gave her the less she gave me sexually.

Women have changed the rules. Men hear the marriage vows and say for better or worse and they think it means for better or worse. Women stop listening after better. If they are unhappy in a commitment, they blow off their vows and leave. Now the dumb part is the women I have seen do this in know they are probably making a change for the worst but cannot help themselves. The women are so unhappy and think nothing could be worse than their current state, and God is happy to show them how things can and will be worse. Maybe there are women who upgrade in a breakup or divorce, but that has not been the case with me.

All this crap about men's rights and MGTOW is stupid. Do something about it and quit bitching.

The fourth and final pleasant truth is I know what makes me happy and that is fucking women and getting a great blowjob. For the last 10 years of my marriage, my ex did not give me head. She bitched about me cheating on her and the line that got the most traction with her and everyone else was that she did not give me head for 10 years. She tried to shame me. "I wanted to but it was so dirty down there", and I said, "That is funny. The other women didn't seem to mind. " When my ex started to pull the same shit: no oral sex and one position sex, I asked if the problem was me. My brother admitted the sex life in his marriage had gone to shit and then I remembered Chris Rock saying that every married guy got the same shitty ass blowjob.

In the last year, I have rarely been turned down for sex, and I wondered why, and the reality is that I will no longer have anything long term with any woman not interested in sexual pleasing me. I wish that this was my discovery but the truth is that I just have found great women who want to please me. This New Year's I had four stunning women all tell me they loved me and hoped to see me soon.

I have had people accuse me of bragging on this score but the truth is I mention this because if I can get this, you can too.

Is there any guy who does not like getting a blow job? Then why are you / we accepting not getting them? Call me all the names you want: a cheater, afraid of commitment, a pervert, a sex addict, but I am going to get my blowjobs. If a woman does not want to blow me, she does not want to be with me and on to the next one.

I grant you that maybe these truth and untruths are obvious, however I am not just talking about these things but feel they are right and are acting on them. Warren Buffett admitted the best time to invest and be greedy is when others are fearful. That is being a contrarian. How many people do you know are true contrarians though and when their portfolio goes down by 50% are truly happy and say, "Yeah, I get to buy more of stock X at a discount!" Most of the time I hear that I do not think the person is happy but making excuses for his sagging portfolio. Peter Lynch said of being a contrarian, "I have met a lot of people smart enough to invest but do not have the stomach for it."

So 2020, as bad it was for others, was a good year for me.

[WyattEarp]

Hey Mongerer88, Happy New Year!

Since you have a lot of experience in Montreal, I was wondering if you have played in the MTL sugar bowl. It would seem to be a great city for SA. I always found Montreal women to be more libertine compared to other North American women.

In regards to SA being deemed a sexual procurement site, a MTL buddy of ours was banned from SA for sending out messages to the girls asking "how much?" and even maybe "condom required?' Haha. Anyways, I don't think he is poor or cheap. He's just a bit impatient.

Even if the SA site was domiciled in a tolerant country, isn't possible the USA Law enforcement could monkey around with the site through USA Internet providers? There is a Canadian escort ad site mentioned often where I can't see the photos here in the USA However, other sites that were shutdown by USA LE have come right back based in the Netherlands. It's all quite confusing and I don't think USA Law enforcement is sure of what is doing. They play sort of a sporadic whack-a-mole game with the internet sex sites. I'm also sure that international internet governance prevents them from trying to run around censoring the global internet.

[Mongerer88]

On another note, of late, I have to say that I'm getting a little worried about the future viability of SA. If any of you read the USA boards, just about every major city has a sugar baby sub-forum, and there are regular and recurring flame wars about whether sugar babies are pros or not. As if the complexity of women exist solely in one of two binary states. Frankly to me, the majority in the "pro" camp are so adamant about it, that they come across as misogynistic. It is also unsurprising that these are the same guys that complain about how the site is full of fakes and flakes and how they can't get a real girl from the site (and I talk to many girls on SA who run from these types, given how brutish they come across). Anyway, I'm not trying to reignite the debate here. It is a debate without a purpose, but worse and to the point I wanted to make, I fear it is drawing the wrong attention to SA. On top of that, there are the detailed reviews of services and transactions, and some ugly bully behavior. It's like putting out the catnip for white knights, scorned women, and an uncle named LEO.


CR.

Yes, I have noticed the same thing. I really hope that poor, and / or cheap, guys don't fuck it up like they do everything else in this industry. Like with Backpage and the German flat-rate all you can fuck clubs. There would be some irony to that, since the founder says that love itself is a concept invented for poor people.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...or-people.html

The risk isn't that law enforcement starts putting decoys on Seeking Arrangement, like they did with Backpage. The system is too different, and that is simply not going to happen. The risk is that the USA Federal government, and / or numerous State Attorney Generals, bring an action against Seeking for promoting prostitution, and simply seizes its assets while the lawsuit progresses. That won't legally effect the users, other than the damn site would be in limbo. It would be better if the entire operation had been originated outside the United States, but it is too late now. When you read the sub forums you mentioned, there is no denying that the site has attracted more transactional players as it has gotten bigger in the last few years. I am sure that Seeking would prefer that those sub forums not exist. In the USA, the general rule in this industry is the smaller the better, and the quieter the better, in terms of federal and state agencies not going on the attack. Seeking was once the master of setting up discreet one-on-one compensated relationships, which is what most of the guys here use it for. But many discussion sites now have links to specific profiles where her prices and specific sexual services are detailed in the discussion post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeekingArrangement