Seeking Arrangements

[TedFerguson]

I'm back after losing my password for a bit and being too lazy to recover it. I wish I did it earlier, since I probably could have saved a bunch of anguish with input from this forum.

I've had an on-off sugar baby in Brazil which I've known for over a year. We started meeting fall of 2022 in São Paulo and had a mini, PPM-based relationship for a few months. Afterwards, we had a falling out, she went to try living in the US and there was overall little communication. Spring of 2023, she's back in Brazil and we spend a few mini-vacations together in Rio and Florianopolis, which were great. She goes back to the US, and again completely disappears from communication. I found out later she was also seeing another guy while in the US, who wasn't supporting her financially. She was working as a house cleaner, and the stress was too much for her, she came back emaciated and with acne on her forehead (likely due to the standard American diet).

I was still very attracted to her and respected her more for trying to make it in the US. We had a couple fun days before I had to leave São Paulo, and I offered her monthly support with her expenses until I come back. Overall, I didn't feel happy with the arrangement because compared to other similar girls who've had similar arrangements, she made less time to be available in calls and generally made less effort. I found out later she was seeing the same guy in Brazil for a part of the time, she lied a few times about being busy while she was really out partying, etc. I arrive back in São Paulo after a few months, and she behaves pretty poorly, at one point saying "I don't want to be here but I have to pay my rent". At that point, I knew things weren't going to work out with the monthly arrangement and told her things were going back to PPM. Understandably, the level of connection dropped a fair bit, but the sex was still good and we could still have fun moments together.

She decides to go to Italy for a month and I visited her on my way to see family in Europe. We spend a few days together in Italy, which start off great but eventually spiral after she admits she hasn't paid her college for 2 months and needs even more money to cover the late fees. To make things worse, she decides to go back to Brazil which is too far for me to travel again. I told her I won't pay for her mistakes (she spent the money on clothes and hair products) and she should face the consequences herself.

Fast forward about a month until now, she calls me crying telling me she had family issues, doesn't want to see other men in Brazil and can I please take her out of the country to Europe (I'm in Barcelona now). I'm thinking what that would have to look like to make it work for me. She'd probably have to live with me, and I'd cap her monthly support at a fixed sum. The concern I have is that it might be too taxing for me to "take care of her" as she needs to be taken care of (namely with strong boundaries). I'm not a person who enjoys being firm with others, and I think she needs that. I also worry she might be destabilizing to my life and goals in general.

On the other hand, part of me is saying, it'll only be a one-way flight ticket to try. She is really hot, and when not being a fuck-up, quite chill to be around and down to do whatever I want. And if it doesn't work, I can ship her off to her family in Italy for less than $100. I can structure the agreement how I like and if she doesn't agree to it, we can all move on. Thoughts?

[FilthyBeaver]

But. That's why I always have a discussion with them before discussing money. Pros go straight to the number. A legit sugar baby doesn't. Whatever you think of them they've rationalized the fact that they're on seeking and most are there for some kind of connection as a priority after the money. This is not an exact science and everybody is different. What I can say is I have found exactly what I'm looking for several times, made a couple mistakes along the way, learned from them, and am mostly very happy with the results. I would never pay a pro $1 k but I'd give that to a sugar baby every day of the week. The mental connection is way more important than the time or bedroom performance for me. That stuff comes with the mental connection for free (kinda).

And there you have it folks. Most interestingly, if you look at the laws, prostitution is rarely criminally illegal in most of South America and Europe. Sometimes associated activities such as brothels and pimping are, but rarely independent prostitution, though it may be regulated. Same for most Oriental countries. And even if it is illegal, the police rarely ever enforce it. Where is in the United States there are dozens of arrest per day.

What I find most amusing is the price post dinner discussion. I talked to a hooker on the Seeking messaging platform. I told her I would only be in town for a short period of time and was looking for something short term. She responded by saying a meeting of any sort is a minimum of $1,000 USD. I asked her what if I only wanted to see her for an hour. She replied by saying 700. I responded by blocking her on Seeking.

Now where would I be if I took her out to an exquisite restaurant without discussing price, and she orders a $500 bottle of Cristal? What if I start discussing price and she makes me the same offer? Even if I decline as politely as possible, what's to stop her from saying she needs to use the restroom, walking out the exit door of the restaurant instead, sending me a text saying if I don't pay for the champagne she's going to accuse me of rape? Do you think showing my cell phone to the mesero, telling him she's trying to blackmail me when he brings me the cuenta, would be an effective tactic? Jajaja, no, of course not. I'd be stuck with the bill, on account of an arrogant woman / ho who thought "she was worth a high dollar amount. ".

I guess that's one risk I would prefer not to take, though other people might be comfortable with it.

[VanessasClient]

Great to have you aboard Capt. You might want to set your expectations that France will be higher so as to not be disappointed. I've found a strong correlation between escort 1 HR prices in a city and Seeking full date prices. That is if an escort is asking $500/ HR then a seeking girl might be $500 a evening. Not always true but a rule of thumb. And there is definitely a correlation between legality of prostitution and escort prices. So by inference Seeking girls charge more in countries where prostitution is frowned upon. Thus why US is quite high.

The countries GFE references are all considerably more prostitution friendly than France. So I expect higher prices there.

Don't assume a wonderful conversation will lead to reasonable prices. All of us have had what appear to be great girls hit us up for $800 or $1000 when the price discussion starts. One way to find out is test the waters. Get a discusiand going with a girl who you are not totally smitten with and it's ok if it doesn't work out. Take her to WhatsApp and get into the price discussion. (There is a right way to do this and I can repost if not known) and see how that goes. That will give you some gauge for Paris.

And there you have it folks. Most interestingly, if you look at the laws, prostitution is rarely criminally illegal in most of South America and Europe. Sometimes associated activities such as brothels and pimping are, but rarely independent prostitution, though it may be regulated. Same for most Oriental countries. And even if it is illegal, the police rarely ever enforce it. Where is in the United States there are dozens of arrest per day.

What I find most amusing is the price post dinner discussion. I talked to a hooker on the Seeking messaging platform. I told her I would only be in town for a short period of time and was looking for something short term. She responded by saying a meeting of any sort is a minimum of $1,000 USD. I asked her what if I only wanted to see her for an hour. She replied by saying 700. I responded by blocking her on Seeking.

Now where would I be if I took her out to an exquisite restaurant without discussing price, and she orders a $500 bottle of Cristal? What if I start discussing price and she makes me the same offer? Even if I decline as politely as possible, what's to stop her from saying she needs to use the restroom, walking out the exit door of the restaurant instead, sending me a text saying if I don't pay for the champagne she's going to accuse me of rape? Do you think showing my cell phone to the mesero, telling him she's trying to blackmail me when he brings me the cuenta, would be an effective tactic? Jajaja, no, of course not. I'd be stuck with the bill, on account of an arrogant woman / ho who thought "she was worth a high dollar amount. ".

I guess that's one risk I would prefer not to take, though other people might be comfortable with it.

[Laj505]

But I'm going to chime in anyway. I've said this many times, I don't haggle or barter on their price. I will demand a set amount of time for it, something nebulous like "an evening" or couple of nights. I regularly pay way more than any of the numbers I see being thrown around in the last few posts but here's my reasoning.

1) I've got a slav fetish.

2) I'm extremely picky, I want a certain look and attitude. Out of 100 profiles I may be interested in 10 or 15. Of those maybe half will reply. Of those maybe another half will have some amount of conversation or chemistry that isn't focused on price first. If their first sentence involves price it's an instant turn off for me. Of those maybe half will not flake for whatever reason. So that puts me at 2% of the girls I actually want or get a chance to meet.

You need to decide what's important to you. Price or quality. For me, getting what I want is everything. I don't care about price (within reason). Fortunately, the ones I've been interested in have always given me a price I'm willing to pay. If their price motivates them to not flake on me then it's worth it. If I'm one of three guys she's talking to competing for the same evening, I'll happily outbid them if she's what I want. There's too much focus on price here. If that's a concern go to an escort, shady massage place or a brothel (outside of the US). Also keep in mind if you're sugaring, their price is just the start. Dinner costs something, drinks, entertainment, whatever you're into costs money. In my experience it can be as much or more than their price but when I've laid out an incredible night at a really nice restaurant or show it has always paid dividends and I've always received more than I expected from her.

Great insights. I wll follow the checks you mentioned. Also can you share some ballpark amount you pay the girls for such 3/4 or overnight experiences regardless of the levels of beauties.

[Laj505]

As I say below escort prices often set the bar for Seeking girls (but for much longer time). So I would look up escort sites both cities and see what prices are for a hottie. Seeking girl will prob be similar.

As far as time dinner and sex tends to take about 3 hrs minimum for me. Maybe 5 hours if both are really great. So I think 3-5 hours is good for an evening. As I've said elsewhere in this thread I never specify hours. That's hooker stuff. So the date could be 3 hrs or could be overnight if we super vibe. I always play it by ear. Prefer it that way maybe partly because the less pro a girl is the more I want her to be my date.

Can you share your insights on how much price should be okay for the seeking girls. In absolute terms? Don't want to be biten by inflation. Thanks.

[FilthyBeaver]

But I'm going to chime in anyway. I've said this many times, I don't haggle or barter on their price. I will demand a set amount of time for it, something nebulous like "an evening" or couple of nights. I regularly pay way more than any of the numbers I see being thrown around in the last few posts but here's my reasoning.

1) I've got a slav fetish.

2) I'm extremely picky, I want a certain look and attitude. Out of 100 profiles I may be interested in 10 or 15. Of those maybe half will reply. Of those maybe another half will have some amount of conversation or chemistry that isn't focused on price first. If their first sentence involves price it's an instant turn off for me. Of those maybe half will not flake for whatever reason. So that puts me at 2% of the girls I actually want or get a chance to meet.

You need to decide what's important to you. Price or quality. For me, getting what I want is everything. I don't care about price (within reason). Fortunately, the ones I've been interested in have always given me a price I'm willing to pay. If their price motivates them to not flake on me then it's worth it. If I'm one of three guys she's talking to competing for the same evening, I'll happily outbid them if she's what I want. There's too much focus on price here. If that's a concern go to an escort, shady massage place or a brothel (outside of the US). Also keep in mind if you're sugaring, their price is just the start. Dinner costs something, drinks, entertainment, whatever you're into costs money. In my experience it can be as much or more than their price but when I've laid out an incredible night at a really nice restaurant or show it has always paid dividends and I've always received more than I expected from her.

Hello Pals, Great reading all the insights here.

So I have started talking with few girls and mostly looking to attract sugar babes in vienna and upto prague or Budapest is fine for me. So I find it quite difficult to understand the market and price here. Can any senior pals share some insights on how much is good and reasonable rates for girls here. Average looking girls to top spinner. Mostly a comprehensive discussion on price or PPM for the girls in this part of world.

And also I want to if with PPM girls will stay back for overnight or few hours in hotel. IF few hours then what's a standard hours of time for such PPM scenarios.

Thanks in advance.

[Steve 9696]

Hello Pals, Great reading all the insights here.

So I have started talking with few girls and mostly looking to attract sugar babes in vienna and upto prague or Budapest is fine for me. So I find it quite difficult to understand the market and price here. Can any senior pals share some insights on how much is good and reasonable rates for girls here. Average looking girls to top spinner. Mostly a comprehensive discussion on price or PPM for the girls in this part of world.

And also I want to if with PPM girls will stay back for overnight or few hours in hotel. IF few hours then what's a standard hours of time for such PPM scenarios.

Thanks in advance.

As I say below escort prices often set the bar for Seeking girls (but for much longer time). So I would look up escort sites both cities and see what prices are for a hottie. Seeking girl will prob be similar.

As far as time dinner and sex tends to take about 3 hrs minimum for me. Maybe 5 hours if both are really great. So I think 3-5 hours is good for an evening. As I've said elsewhere in this thread I never specify hours. That's hooker stuff. So the date could be 3 hrs or could be overnight if we super vibe. I always play it by ear. Prefer it that way maybe partly because the less pro a girl is the more I want her to be my date.

[Laj505]

Hello Pals, Great reading all the insights here.

So I have started talking with few girls and mostly looking to attract sugar babes in vienna and upto prague or Budapest is fine for me. So I find it quite difficult to understand the market and price here. Can any senior pals share some insights on how much is good and reasonable rates for girls here. Average looking girls to top spinner. Mostly a comprehensive discussion on price or PPM for the girls in this part of world.

And also I want to if with PPM girls will stay back for overnight or few hours in hotel. IF few hours then what's a standard hours of time for such PPM scenarios.

Thanks in advance.

[Steve 9696]

I don't think Paris will be much different, but I'll see. It does help to speak French but many girls who are obviously native French speakers post their profiles in English or both French and English. Speaking English is much more common in France than when I first went to France as a 19 year old and lost my virginity to a 24 year old French woman (not a pro).

Great to have you aboard Capt. You might want to set your expectations that France will be higher so as to not be disappointed. I've found a strong correlation between escort 1 HR prices in a city and Seeking full date prices. That is if an escort is asking $500/ HR then a seeking girl might be $500 a evening. Not always true but a rule of thumb. And there is definitely a correlation between legality of prostitution and escort prices. So by inference Seeking girls charge more in countries where prostitution is frowned upon. Thus why US is quite high.

The countries GFE references are all considerably more prostitution friendly than France. So I expect higher prices there.

Don't assume a wonderful conversation will lead to reasonable prices. All of us have had what appear to be great girls hit us up for $800 or $1000 when the price discussion starts. One way to find out is test the waters. Get a discusióand going with a girl who you are not totally smitten with and it's ok if it doesn't work out. Take her to WhatsApp and get into the price discussion. (There is a right way to do this and I can repost if not known) and see how that goes. That will give you some gauge for Paris.

[CaptRenno]

...Result: I played in Belgium, Germany, Spain with great results. Mostly 250 EUR for timeless dates. Overnights etc.

I don't think Paris will be much different, but I'll see. It does help to speak French but many girls who are obviously native French speakers post their profiles in English or both French and English. Speaking English is much more common in France than when I first went to France as a 19 year old and lost my virginity to a 24 year old French woman (not a pro).

[CaptRenno]

I noticed that Paris is really expensive compared to the rest of EU, especially when you look at girls from Euro Girl Escort. Maybe not if you go to brothels or looking on the street...You can find beautiful girls almost anywhere else for less than 200 EU. I found knockout girls in Portugal and Malta for less...So 500 rings a bell for that city, if you are looking at independent providers online. Honestly, my suspicion is that girls from Seeking will likely want more. I could be wrong though...The only one I saw in Paris was right around that price, and she was a published Brazilian model who still does photoshoots to this day. Spends time entertaining Arabian princes on their yachts occasionally, etc.

I'm not looking for an escort in Paris or Portugal or Malta. I'm looking for a PPM SB in Paris and I have some good leads with women who are not pros or Brazilian models (I don't like the type). The women that I have been in contact with seem to know what they're doing and I don't think they will be asking for or expecting 500 Euros for their time. If that was their expectation, then they would have let me know that up front, like the one that I mentioned did.

[Gfefan]

I have barebacked 7 out of 14. My top 3 repeat girls are bareback and CIP while the rest are bareback pull out. All 7 on effective birth control (IUD).

Why did I not bareback other 7? Didn't feel right. And never repeated them.

Have I been stupid? Couple of times I felt so. And when I read these stuff, I think I should no longer bareback (except those 3, of course).

We exchange test results. So, that's a good thing.

I've barebacked three times with girls from seeking out of maybe 6 or 7 I've had sex with, one on a first date, one on a second date, and one after 3 or 4 months using a condom. I don't regret any of them and I didn't catch anything because I have always tested after but in hindsight the first two were dumb and I shouldn't have done it just because I didn't know them very well.

[Gfefan]

I used to live at a place close to Paris. Three things blocked me from playing there.

1. French. Which doesn't sem to be an issue for you.

2. Switch and bait scammers. Many "girls" asked for money to meet. No-go for me.

3. Filtering out for above left me with a few not worthy enough to make the trip. Either not so impressive profiles or high expectations.

Result: I played in Belgium, Germany, Spain with great results. Mostly 250 EUR for timeless dates. Overnights etc.

Please keep me posted on how it goes for you in Paris. A city I would like to add to my list.

I noticed that Paris is really expensive compared to the rest of EU, especially when you look at girls from Euro Girl Escort. Maybe not if you go to brothels or looking on the street. This is a bit more intuitive given it's an expensive flagship city in Western EU, with a massive population. Inflation, the reputation that France has, etc.

You can find beautiful girls almost anywhere else for less than 200 EU. I found knockout girls in Portugal and Malta for less, even with the outcall surcharge. So 500 rings a bell for that city, if you are looking at independent providers online. Honestly, my suspicion is that girls from Seeking will likely want more. I could be wrong though. The only one I saw in Paris was right around that price, and she was a published Brazilian model who still does photoshoots to this day. Spends time entertaining Arabian princes on their yachts occasionally, etc.

Good luck, maybe there's a good deal right around the corner. Please share how it goes.

[FilthyBeaver]

I've barebacked three times with girls from seeking out of maybe 6 or 7 I've had sex with, one on a first date, one on a second date, and one after 3 or 4 months using a condom. I don't regret any of them and I didn't catch anything because I have always tested after but in hindsight the first two were dumb and I shouldn't have done it just because I didn't know them very well.

In your first statement on this you made a link between paying for sex and picking up things that one can't get rid of. But, it's not paying for sex that's the real issue. It's leading a promiscuous lifestyle of unprotected sex period, regardless of whether you're paying for it or not. You don't have to be paying for sex to get something that will have you "paying" for that sex later in a way you hadn't planned on.

When weighing the risks of whether or not to bareback, you have to take into consideration who you're dealing with, and hope that your conclusions are right. In my decision to bareback with my Seeking baby, not only did I know her tubes were tied and that we were both clean, but I also knew that I wasn't dealing with a prostitute working in some place like a German FKK, a Brazilian termas, or a Thai go-go bar fucking multiple guys in a day / week. All systems go for no condoms cum inside!

[The Cane]

Cmon man. Obviously I'm making a statement about a broad range of people who seek this, not the one exception of a guy who does it rarely and has lab documentation from both parties in hand. You can make a general statement that eating Burger King every day is unhealthy even if some guy somewhere says it's totally fine because he does it every day but only ever orders the salad and a water. It would be cumbersome to talk about topics if you had to asterisk and footnote anomalies and exceptional edge cases every time you made an observation.

In your first statement on this you made a link between paying for sex and picking up things that one can't get rid of. But, it's not paying for sex that's the real issue. It's leading a promiscuous lifestyle of unprotected sex period, regardless of whether you're paying for it or not. You don't have to be paying for sex to get something that will have you "paying" for that sex later in a way you hadn't planned on.

When weighing the risks of whether or not to bareback, you have to take into consideration who you're dealing with, and hope that your conclusions are right. In my decision to bareback with my Seeking baby, not only did I know her tubes were tied and that we were both clean, but I also knew that I wasn't dealing with a prostitute working in some place like a German FKK, a Brazilian termas, or a Thai go-go bar fucking multiple guys in a day / week. All systems go for no condoms cum inside!