Seeking Arrangements

[Midwestern]

Man, this post is going to be fucking long. Sorry.

There was a legit MP that I used to go to regularly. I've been going to it for about 6 years. Most of the masseuses at this shop look like Shrek. But man, they can give a killer massage. For the entire hour, I would either clench my teeth in pain or scream in pain, but I would feel like a million bucks afterwards. A couple of years ago, I was massaged by a skinny MILF at this place. It was just an okay massage, but I kind of liked her, so I started requesting her every time I went to this place. Then this happened:

Last September, when I arrived for my massage, I gave her a hug Hello,. To my surprise, she gave me a warm hug back, like she pressed her entire body against mine. I took that as a cue, and suddenly decided to make a pass at her, but she resisted, but I was a bit aggressive and eventually we started making out. So, for the entire hour, we just made out.

Later that night, I texted her that I liked her. She texted back that she liked me too. Then I texted, "what should we do?" And she texted back, "meet at hotel?" Wow! Why did it take me almost two fucking years to hit on her?! Anyway, luckily for me, at that time, I was friends with a pro that lived nearby. So, I asked her if I could use her apartment to fuck my new GF, the skinny MILF. This request put her off. I was a little surprised. I actually went to her place regularly, usually after the gym, to take a shower and grab a bite to eat and sometimes I would fuck her. She let me fuck her for free, because I used to be a loyal customer of hers when we knew each other in Beijing, and I helped her settle into Shanghai. But my request to use her apartment to fuck someone else put her off. But eventually, I agreed to pay her $45 each time I used her apartment, and she begrudgingly agreed. So, I started fucking the skinny MILF at my friend's apartment about twice per week, usually before her shift started, or on her days off.

But then, suddenly out of the blue, her husband moved to Shanghai. So, we had to meet during her shifts. Masseuses can do house calls. So, when we met, I had to pay for a "massage. " But that was only about $25.

With the skinny MILF, every fuck session went like this. She comes over, I tell her to take off her clothes and she does, and then she lays on the bed. I take off my clothes and then we make out, doing super heavy DFK. And then I would do some DATY and then I would stick my dick into her pussy and we would make out, super heavy DFK, for the next hour and a half, multiple positions. I always tried to take a break and chat, but she had no interest in chatting. Sometimes, when I said I needed a rest, she would climb onto me and start riding me. I sometimes tried to make small talk during our sessions, but she would just nod or grunt, and just kept fucking me. And I never have an orgasm during our sessions. This is the way that I like to fuck. I just want to fuck forever and never stop. I can pull this off because I'm circumcised, and my palms are rough from working out, and so from my many, many years of masturbating myself with my rough hands, my dick skin has almost no sensitivity. Sometimes, when I think my dick is starting to feel sensitive again, I would start whacking off regularly to toughen the skin again, and sometimes, I would drink a half can of beer to numb my dick while fucking. But I digress.

When you guys are fucking someone, do you ever have that fear that you don't know when you're going to fuck again, and so you just want to never stop fucking that person that you're with? Well, that's how she was, when she was fucking me. It was as if she was scared she'd never get laid again, and so she was trying to get laid as much as possible at that moment. But I digress again.

Anyway, from early September to early January of this year, we probably met about 20 times. Skinny MILF never asked for a dime for herself. There was one time when I gave her $150, because she mentioned that something of hers broke and she needed to replace it. I thought that was a clue to give her money, and so I did, but when she saw the money she was put off. But I insisted that she take it anyway.

Anyway, in early January, she went home for Chinese New Year.

And then, the fucking coronavirus outbreak happened. The entire country went into a super hard fucking lock-down.

In late April, when China was starting to let people travel domestically again, she came to Shanghai to collect her belongings and to take care of some things. She was only here for two days. She said that she was moving back home, because her college aged daughter was also moving back home due to colleges being shut down. I met her, but we didn't even hug or hold hands or kiss, because both of us, along with the rest of the entire country, were still living in fucking fear of the fucking virus. I was not only wearing a mask, but also a hat and swim goggles and gloves, but many people were doing this at that time, so I didn't even stand out. But I wanted to meet her so that I could give her some money. I don't remember exactly what I gave her, but it was either $300 or $450. She sincerely appreciated it.

The months go by, I ask her if she's ever coming back to Shanghai, and she keeps telling me that she's not sure.

Her daughter finally graduated from college in June or July, taking her last set of courses using Zoom, while living with her mom (skinny MILF) and dad, who was also out of a job.

Then, in August, skinny MILF told me that her entire family was going to move to Shanghai and they were all going to live together. But skinny MILF told me that she'd find a home and a job near to me.

Then, in mid-September, skinny MILF said that her husband couldn't find a job in Shanghai, and instead he found a job in Huaqiao, in Jiangsu Province, which is over an hour away from Shanghai. But skinny MILF swore to me, that after they moved to Huaqiao, that she would drive to see me at least once per week.

During these text message exchanges, she mentioned how destitute their family was. She and her husband hadn't worked since January. I don't know what her husband does, but skinny MILF told me that she makes more money than him, and she makes about $2000 per month. She said that they might not be able to afford the rent in Huaqiao, on top of their mortgage payment at home. I asked her what her Huaqiao rent was, and she said it was $1,500 for three months.

They moved to Huaqiao on Friday. Skinny MILF told me that she'd come to Shanghai to see me on Monday (today). I told her to book a hotel and I would reimburse her. We met at her hotel room at 1:20 pm. It was the first time I had seen her since April, and second time since January. She was skinny before, but now she looked anorexic and she looked like she aged quite a bit. We hugged, and then we showered, and then we fell back into our usual fuck routine. Again, I tried to rest and chat with her, but she didn't want to talk and she barely said anything and she kept wanting to fuck and DFK nonstop. Finally, a little after 3 pm, I told her that I had to go to work. Because, quite frankly, I was exhausted. Every time I wanted to rest and catch up with her, she'd just climb back onto me and start fucking me.

So, I finally got up and showered and put on my clothes. I then told her to come see me at least once per week. She agreed. And then I gave her $1,500. For her Huaqiao rent. I could tell she felt a bit ashamed, but I told her that I loved her and that I would help her. I told her that I would give her another $1,500 in December. She nodded. And then I left.

So now, my former affair has been converted to an arrangement. $500 per month.

As a side note, it was because of skinny MILF that I came to realize that migrant workers were good potential candidates for hookups. I have since hooked up with a few other migrant workers, such as a office receptionist, and an employee at a coffee shop.

The end.

[Midwestern]

She is already a partner in crime so you don't have to worry about her. Why lie about the little stuff like who rents the apartment that can be easily proven false? It just creates other problems down the road.

Edit: I think you do need to come up with something so the SBs can't stay when you don't want them around.

Yep, this is why I'm going to lie to her about my renting the apartment. If she knows I'm renting it, then she'll want to move into it, and I don't want to deal with that hassle. I know this will unravel, but my main goal it to have it unravel later than sooner. Thanks, man.

[Nounce]

I already confessed to her that I'm married. Extramarital affairs are illegal in China. Both of my SBs know I'm married. The second SB is married too.

She is already a partner in crime so you don't have to worry about her. Why lie about the little stuff like who rents the apartment that can be easily proven false? It just creates other problems down the road.

Edit: I think you do need to come up with something so the SBs can't stay when you don't want them around.

[Rextor]

So since more folks are joining this thread and much of the good primer information is way back in Jan / Feb I thought I'the write a little intro to Seeking. Hope you enjoy and it helps others on their journey. Please note that this is for guys that enjoy the whole romance and simulated girlfriend thing. If you just want to find a girl to fuck there are plenty of those also.

Seeking Arrangement opened a whole new world for me -- Sugar Baby. Sugar Daddy dating. I had gotten a taste of this with Thifany (the girl from the So Paulo Boate that I flew to London for a week). I mean SBSD is really what we were doing when I flew her to London. I paid her a very reasonable allowance for the week and we just played boyfriend and girlfriend. What fun.

I came to realize through the Thifany experience that I like more than just paid sex. And in fact I love having a girlfriend. I enjoy texting each other. I enjoy that someone cares about me (even if she's pretending -- just never tell me so!) and of course I love the complete experience of dinners and dancing and just acting like real lovers. Not transactional sex partners. And SB / SD is all about this same experience. When done properly.

So how do you do it properly? I suppose this could vary widely depending on what you are after. But I am after a girl who FEELS like a girlfriend. She's affectionate, appreciates an evening above her usual stature in life, and is able to actually enjoy herself with you. She views the allowance / gift (I. E. Money!) as a bonus. Not the only thing she is after. Any girl where I feel money is the primary motivation and she will go with anyone for a high enough price, gets kicked straight to the curb. She's got to be a girlfriend first, and benefit second.

Knowing that this is the kind of girl I want to attract (and other guys I have talked to also find this persona the most attractive) there is a set of rules you have to play by. Understand that SA is NOT AT ALL like picking up hookers. It is much more like meeting a girl into a bar and seducing her to leave with you. It's just an online bar. Sure you need money, but you also need some distance game and you need to treat her with respect. If you do, you have a chance of closing the deal. However, the moment you disrespect her, she will be gone.

Most importantly, never discuss sex or money. These things will be implied and they will be done offline. Never discuss sex or money on SA and really never discuss sex at all. As soon as you are that explicit, the kind of girl you are after will feel disrespected and ghost you in no time flat.

So start with some light chat and flirt. Your opener should be something specific to her that you read in her profile -- not something generic. And ALWAYS end every message with a question. This prompts her to respond. If you don't ask a question, she will not take the initiative -- the conversation will just die. You have to drive it -- and you drive with questions. Get her to tell you a few things about herself -- what she likes to eat, her favorite wine, dog or cat person -- It doesn't really matter-- just something that will get her to engage a bit...

Hey Steve,

Great to hear tips from an OG. Have you tried SA overseas? I tried in CDMX and while It worked out overall I found myself spending tons of time contacting SBs. I'm interested in your approach of really talking at length with these women. Its sounds crass, I know, but in Mexico I was at the point where within 4 exchanges of dialogue I was asking for their WhatsApp to discuss detail $, because the effort it took to engage with these girls was so excessive. And you're suggesting expending even more effort? Wondering about pros and cons.

Also I don't know if my young age (30) and non-white skin put me out of the typical middle aged Gringo type (no offense to anyone) that some of these girls go far so they think I'm scamming / not serious.

[Midwestern]

I am more worried about the security guards saying something they should to one of my girls. Also, it just takes one neighbor to complain then you are totally screwed.

Yeah, I agree. I am thinking about just using it to meet my two SBs, and don't bring any outcall pros into the apartment. My second SB is older and doesn't look like a pro. My first SB is almost half my age, but I could pass her off as my GF.

I think it is a good idea but I would just say something like borrowing from a friend who is locked out of China due to pandemic.

Having said the above, I would not lie if I were you because it is too easy to find out. I would not lie in a long term relationship at all except very few things like marital status or I will choose not to answer questions. There is really no damage in telling her the truth.

I don't know the Chinese legal system. My guess is that it is also illegal for her to date married man or she can be sued in civil court by the spouse. If that is the case, you will have less to fear. I would try to find out about that to have a clear picture of the consequence.

I already confessed to her that I'm married. Extramarital affairs are illegal in China. Both of my SBs know I'm married. The second SB is married too. So yeah, I'm living in fear. But what can I do if fucking is a necessary part of my life? Sure, I can fuck in an MP, but that's even scarier, and sure, I can meet incall pros, but I'm looking for arrangements with GFs. And always using hotels is stressing me out for a variety of reasons. What would you do if you were in my situation? Any advice is appreciated.

[DramaFree11]

I think it is a good idea but I would just say something like borrowing from a friend who is locked out of China due to pandemic.

Having said the above, I would not lie if I were you because it is too easy to find out. I would not lie in a long term relationship at all except very few things like marital status. There is really no damage in telling her the truth. Like the case about your marital status, I actually would stick to the original story and that is obviously understandable if she finds the truth later.

I don't know the Chinese legal system. My guess is that it is also illegal for her to date married man or she can be sued in civil court by the spouse. If that is the case, you will have less to fear. I would try to find out about that to have a clear picture of the consequence.

Great advice, this is the whole idea about SA, there is no need to lie or you can just say you do not want to talk about this at the moment. If you relationship gets more serious then obviously then you will need to be more open and honest.

[Nounce]

I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.

I think it is a good idea but I would just say something like borrowing from a friend who is locked out of China due to pandemic.

Having said the above, I would not lie if I were you because it is too easy to find out. I would not lie in a long term relationship at all except very few things like marital status or I will choose not to answer questions. There is really no damage in telling her the truth.

I don't know the Chinese legal system. My guess is that it is also illegal for her to date married man or she can be sued in civil court by the spouse. If that is the case, you will have less to fear. I would try to find out about that to have a clear picture of the consequence.

[DramaFree11]

I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.

Yeah, I'm actually stressed out about this. I only know one other person that did this, and eventually he got caught.

Can't have them over at my place. I'm renting the new apartment exactly for this reason. And my current arrangement has become my GF. I don't want a GF, but I am tolerating it because she is hilarious and fun to be with, and plus she is smoking hot. If I tell her "hell no" then she's gone. Eventually, it will end, of course, but I'm hoping it will last as long as possible.

I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.

I am more worried about the security guards saying something they should to one of my girls. Also, it just takes one neighbor to complain then you are totally screwed.

[Midwestern]

I used to work for a company that had rented / owned (not sure) a few apartments near the office; they could be borrowed by employees who lived far away and didn't want to go home that night.

Although I never used those apartments myself, it wouldn't be a far stretch to say that, it's against company policy, to let others permanently live in the apartment. You don't want the security guard to rat you out to your company, that you have a GF. Living there permanently. Also since not that many people are currently using this company benefit, you are often able to borrow the key from HR. I'm sure you could spin something like that.

Good luck.

I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.

This is the issue with renting long term. Sooner or later something will go wrong, especially if you are doing multiple girls. I wish I had an answer.

Yeah, I'm actually stressed out about this. I only know one other person that did this, and eventually he got caught.

Can't help but think you're wayyyyy overthinking all of this. Why not just have them at your place? If not, why not just have them at the new apartment. If they ask to move in say hell no?

Can't have them over at my place. I'm renting the new apartment exactly for this reason. And my current arrangement has become my GF. I don't want a GF, but I am tolerating it because she is hilarious and fun to be with, and plus she is smoking hot. If I tell her "hell no" then she's gone. Eventually, it will end, of course, but I'm hoping it will last as long as possible.

Say it belongs to your business / employer and you have access when clients are not using it.

I cannot believe that I didn't think of this idea. Thanks, man. I'll probably use a variation of this.

[Akibono]

I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.

First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.

Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.

So, what should I tell her?

I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros.

Say it belongs to your business / employer and you have access when clients are not using it.

[Rextor]

I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.

First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.

Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.

So, what should I tell her?

I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros..

Can't help but think you're wayyyyy overthinking all of this. Why not just have them at your place? If not, why not just have them at the new apartment. If they ask to move in say hell no?

[DramaFree11]

I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.

First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.

Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.

So, what should I tell her?

I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros..

This is the issue with renting long term. Sooner or later something will go wrong, especially if you are doing multiple girls. I wish I had an answer.

[NightLife17]

I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Please advise. TIA.

I used to work for a company that had rented / owned (not sure) a few apartments near the office; they could be borrowed by employees who lived far away and didn't want to go home that night.

Although I never used those apartments myself, it wouldn't be a far stretch to say that, it's against company policy, to let others permanently live in the apartment. You don't want the security guard to rat you out to your company, that you have a GF. Living there permanently. Also since not that many people are currently using this company benefit, you are often able to borrow the key from HR. I'm sure you could spin something like that.

Good luck.

[Midwestern]

I'm about to rent an apartment that I will use as a love shack.

Originally, my plan was the following. Each time my SB and I use it, I was going to tell her that I am renting it on AirBNB for 2-3 hours, at $15 an hour. However, I now realize that this lie will unravel for two reasons.

First, I will always have the key card to enter the building, and I will always have a key to the apartment room, on me. Sure, I could tell her that I picked up the card and keys just before I met up with her, but then this eliminates spontaneous sex. For example, what if we decide to spend the day having a picnic, and in the middle of it she says let's have sex. Then, she will expect me call or text the apartment owner to arrange for us to go pick up the card and key from him, when I already have them on me.

Second, and this is the main problem, the building security guards are eventually going to know that I actually am renting the place. So, I will become a familiar face, and so the SB will eventually just get a sense, after a couple of months, that I am actually renting the place.

So, what should I tell her?

I obviously cannot tell her that I am renting the place, because then she will want to move into it, and I don't want her fucking other guys in my apartment, and, more importantly, I want to use the love shack for meet my other SB and to meet outcall pros.

I also cannot tell her that this is my friend's apartment and he's letting me borrow it, because I don't feel like spending money to make it look like someone else lives there. For example, I'd have to buy clothes, shoes, luggage, laptop, sports equipment, office supplies, food, toiletries, etc. Lived-in apartments have a lot of crap in it. This apartment will have almost nothing in it.

On a related note, I cannot say that it's my friend's apartment but it's not rented yet and so he's letting me use it. Apartments do not go un-rented for long in Shanghai, so this is simply an implausible lie.

Please advise. TIA.

[Akibono]

She said she's a see-level exec of a small firm in which she's also a large shareholder. I kind of believe her, only because her English is pretty decent. I know this is a stupid reason to believe someone, but given that she can speak decent English suggests that she's decently educated. But the key is to not fuck this up by trying to hook up with her. If I tried to bed her and I end up failing or succeeding, then what happens to my apartment that I'm going to rent from her? I'm no longer going to allow our chats to meander into any kind of personal space. We texted a bunch of times yesterday about my moving in date, such as discussing what I need in terms of furnishings, about payment schedule, etc. , and at one point she said she's happy to have a handsome tenant and my response to her was, "thanks, please make sure the unit is thoroughly clean before I move in, especially the kitchen and bathroom, and make sure there is no trash that I need to take out. " She replied, "OK" and that was that..

Smart move. The key to life is making good decisions and understanding all the things that can go wrong. I never create situations with too many moving parts. You can never keep track of everything and eventually you make a mistake. That is the problem with chronic liars. Having the stronger hand is an advantage and bedding her would be a weak hand. If she really wanted you, she will chase and then you can carefully dictate the terms. Being able to walk away is always a good thing. How do you feel about being a gigolo? Does anyone still use that term?