Seeking Arrangements

[Akibono]

She said she's a see-level exec of a small firm in which she's also a large shareholder. I kind of believe her, only because her English is pretty decent. I know this is a stupid reason to believe someone, but given that she can speak decent English suggests that she's decently educated. But the key is to not fuck this up by trying to hook up with her. If I tried to bed her and I end up failing or succeeding, then what happens to my apartment that I'm going to rent from her? I'm no longer going to allow our chats to meander into any kind of personal space. We texted a bunch of times yesterday about my moving in date, such as discussing what I need in terms of furnishings, about payment schedule, etc. , and at one point she said she's happy to have a handsome tenant and my response to her was, "thanks, please make sure the unit is thoroughly clean before I move in, especially the kitchen and bathroom, and make sure there is no trash that I need to take out. " She replied, "OK" and that was that..

Smart move. The key to life is making good decisions and understanding all the things that can go wrong. I never create situations with too many moving parts. You can never keep track of everything and eventually you make a mistake. That is the problem with chronic liars. Having the stronger hand is an advantage and bedding her would be a weak hand. If she really wanted you, she will chase and then you can carefully dictate the terms. Being able to walk away is always a good thing. How do you feel about being a gigolo? Does anyone still use that term?

[Elvis 2008]

I really develop a fondness for these girls even if we only spent a few hours together. Other than Valentina I really do wish them well and hope for the best for them. What about you? Stay in touch with your exes?

LOL. Yes, I often will get back with them, see how hot they are, have great sex with them, and then ask why I broke up with them. Then right after, I remember why broke up with them and do it again.

[Pessimist]

When I was in the states, I asked some of my SBs about the other SDs on SA. And yep, they said that most SDs are assholes. Because SDs are the "buyers", they feel like they are entitled to be assholes. A few pages back, I mentioned that to have successful arrangements from SA, you just need to be nice, pay the market price, and sometimes even be fun. That's all. This puts us into a small minority among SDs.

For me, if anyone is rude to me on SA, I just brush it off and move on. As it has been mentioned on many occasions on here, finding the arrangement that you want, and with who you want, takes a LOT of time on SA. It's almost like a part time job..

I have no doubt that many SDs are not so nice. Some of them may also be quite nice. Some SDs are posting here and they don't appear to be assholes, and I don't think they are the exceptions. I think being SDs, we have an asymmetric disadvantage in terms of knowledge about other SDs. We know a lot of SBs but hardly any other SDs (unless you have a friend who is also another SD). In fact, SBs may know other SBs but SDs hardly know many SDs. I say this because quite a few young women even seem to know about SA and other SB sites from their friends and get encouraged to join it from their friends. On the other hand, many SDs are older, married, in respectable jobs and will never admit to any of their peers that they are doing this. They keep this part of their life quiet and hidden.

Anyway, we don't know how other SDs behave. And the girls have an incentive to lie. By playing up how nice you are and how other guys are assholes, they try to boost your ego. That is one more way to entice.

Not saying they always lie, but they have an incentive.

And BTW, there are tons of scammer girls on SA. My own success ratio is in single digits at best. (If any one claims their hit ratio is 50% or 70%, they are lying or they must be looking like Ryan Gosling with the money of Jeff Bezos. Or perhaps they relax their spec on age / body type / ethnicity / looks etc). If I hit up 100 girls, I may eventually get to fuck a few. But that is not the worst of it. For every girl that I had sex with, there were at least twice as many or perhaps 4 times as many that tried to swindle money with some sob story, or asking me to send a $100 gift "to prove I am real" or some other garbage like that.

My point? Guys may be assholes, girls may be swindlers. This is par for the course on SA.

[GeneHickman]

I think it is a view shared by many who have visited China.

Indeed, just as long as you can return to the good ole USA at a moments notice! 😂.

[Nounce]

Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.

But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.

I think it is a view shared by many who have visited China.

[Midwestern]

There seems to be a lot of angry people on SA. I am often surprised by the rudeness. I wonder if it is harder for women than us guys. They probably get hit on by a bunch of assholes, but what do they expect from such a site.

When I was in the states, I asked some of my SBs about the other SDs on SA. And yep, they said that most SDs are assholes. Because SDs are the "buyers", they feel like they are entitled to be assholes. A few pages back, I mentioned that to have successful arrangements from SA, you just need to be nice, pay the market price, and sometimes even be fun. That's all. This puts us into a small minority among SDs.

For me, if anyone is rude to me on SA, I just brush it off and move on. As it has been mentioned on many occasions on here, finding the arrangement that you want, and with who you want, takes a LOT of time on SA. It's almost like a part time job.

She sounds like a dragon lady. Business sharp and very manipulative. She probably has sized you up already. China has a large underground market. Speculators borrow under the table to meet the down payment requirements. Would not be surprised that her money comes from people who got it through corruption. Thus, they recycle (launder) the money through people like your landlord. Both benefits. You have to ask yourself how a women would have access to such funds. Probably got it by her ex. Lover (divorce is rare and she would not get his property). Unless it is family wealth, you do not earn such money.

She said she's a see-level exec of a small firm in which she's also a large shareholder. I kind of believe her, only because her English is pretty decent. I know this is a stupid reason to believe someone, but given that she can speak decent English suggests that she's decently educated. But the key is to not fuck this up by trying to hook up with her. If I tried to bed her and I end up failing or succeeding, then what happens to my apartment that I'm going to rent from her? I'm no longer going to allow our chats to meander into any kind of personal space. We texted a bunch of times yesterday about my moving in date, such as discussing what I need in terms of furnishings, about payment schedule, etc. , and at one point she said she's happy to have a handsome tenant and my response to her was, "thanks, please make sure the unit is thoroughly clean before I move in, especially the kitchen and bathroom, and make sure there is no trash that I need to take out. " She replied, "OK" and that was that.

Do any of you stay in touch with ex Babies?

I am still in touch with one. The main reasons why I stay in touch with her is because (1) she is very smart and (2) we eventually became pretty good friends when we were in our arrangement. There were times we would just meet for a beer after work. She graduated from an Ivy and she teased me because I graduated from a public university. But she majored in something stupid (I think it was astronomy), which is why she eventually ended up on SA. The last time I saw her, we watched one of the Presidential debates between Trump and Hilary, and then we fucked, and then the next day she moved from SF to NY. So, we've been in touch for 4 years via texting. Our text chats are actual conversations. We rarely discuss SA and our previous arrangement. We just talk about current events and our current lives. I even asked her for some advice on a couple of occasions, and I recently asked her for some advice regarding my current arrangement.

But I think staying in touch with ex SBs is just like staying in touch with ex GFs. It can sometimes happen, but it's rare.

[DiverOyster]

Last Saturday I met up with my slash part time model in MTY. We go have a great dinner and drinks at my favorite Steak House. We Get home all that plus anal. We wake up and have sex again. Finally we get up take showers off to the SPA, great experience. Get home I had bought some toys. We break them out. She sticks one in her ass and we go at it for 1 hour Sunday afternoon. All for $200 to her. Spa $150 and Dinner was $150, but trust me we got our money worth at the restaurant.

That's amazing how you can get your sb for so cheap. I am planning my first trip (4 day weekend trip) in mid October to MTY. I contacted a few chics on SA's Monterrey. Two responded. I followed your price guideline and offered one chic 200 usd for 24 hours and she laughed me off. Another chic asked for 500 usd for 24 hours. I countered with 200 usd for 24 hours and she laughed me off.

So I am starting to think that 500 usd for 24 hours is the market rate for a slim and decent looking 20's sb in Monterrey. This price is still a bargain in comparison with the price in a major US city. This price is still cheaper than Regioscorsts.

[Pessimist]

I do not keep contacting ex-girls, if that is what "stay in touch" implies. Of course, I did not throw away their contact details and still have the means to contact them in future (assuming they did not change their phone# - but many of them do). The thing is that even a simple action such as sending Hi will suggest you want to see them again, will want to revive an arrangement. If you simply send Hi and a few back and forth messages and then there is no follow up on your part to see them again (and most importantly from their pov, to give them some compensation for their time), they will be pis$ed and rightfully so. The reality is that these were not your girlfriends. It was a monetary transaction, if you strip away all the niceties. If they wanted to be in a relationship with you, to be your girlfriends, they would have told you so and given free sessions. Making contact randomly and with no follow up on the money part is a waste of time from their pov. Remember too, some of them may have moved on and be in a genuine relationship by now and if your message is seen by her current BF by accident, could be a serious problem for her. She was ready for arrangement at the time she did have an arrangement in the past. Until you know for sure that she is again ready to receive text messages that hint at anything about her past, in my view, it is inappropriate to send messages.

In these tough times, it is OK to contact a girl if you want to send a quick gift to help out. If that is what you want to do. I bet that will be appreciated by the girl. But simply pining the girl and reminiscing about good times of the past will do nothing. To you, the sex was the good memory, to her the money received was the good memory.

I have contacted girls after a year or longer, after the arrangement cooled off for a while. That is because I most definitely wanted to see her one more time, and assess her situation. But these have to be done very carefully because I do not want to get her into trouble. So, if I am contacting a girl after a year of dormancy, the first text is always very innocuous "Hi, how have you been, hope all is well with you". Will take a few back and forth messages and to get a measure of her tone before I come out with my intent. If the girl has no interest, she will blow me off and not even reply. Of course these are much easier to do if the girl is still active on SA and the messages happen on the SA site; then I know she is still in the market.

Finally, I keep my emotions strictly separated from my amoral activities. I am married and seek only sexual gratification in these encounters, be it on SA or visits to FKKs or other sites in US or strip club visits in the past. Developing any sort of emotional ties with these girls only leads to disasters. Strictly verboten in my view, unless you really are hoping to convert a specific SB arrangement into a GF relationship.

[Steve 9696]

Do any of you stay in touch with ex Babies? I generally try to keep in touch with girls, tho sometimes it fades. I just sent Thifany happy birthday wishes (two days late) and asked her if it was good. She said yes, but not as much fun as when I was in London with you! Ah, surely it's not as fond a memory for her as it was for me but still nice to hear (she turned 23 in London on our second night together two years ago).

And two of my Vegas girls I am still in touch with, one you would count even as a friend. Both have said they'the like to see me and Alexa even said she'the fly in from Vegas. My London fave remains in touch but I can feel some fade there. I mean we only had the five hours together.

I really develop a fondness for these girls even if we only spent a few hours together. Other than Valentina I really do wish them well and hope for the best for them. What about you? Stay in touch with your exes?

[Akibono]

Just an interesting tidbit. The new landlord of my love shack is super hot. About 5 foot 6, and thin athletic body. Single divorced mom. Probably late 30's. And she's probably at least twice as rich as me, based on what she divulged regarding the other units that she owns (in China, you can only buy your first property with 30% down payment, for the next property that you buy, the minimum down payment amount is something like 50%, and for the third unit, it's like 70%, etc. , and this is to prevent a real estate bubble. She said my apartment is the smallest place that she owns.).

A few nights ago, after I saw her place for the first time, we were texting quite a lot. It started with texting about specific details about the unit, and negotiating about rent and stuff like that. But then it somehow turned personal. She actually told me she wants to have another kid and is looking for Mr. Right. And then she said we should do lunch sometime. I'm like, WTF just happened? The next day, she started being formal again and only texting about the unit.

She sounds like a dragon lady. Business sharp and very manipulative. She probably has sized you up already. China has a large underground market. Speculators borrow under the table to meet the down payment requirements. Would not be surprised that her money comes from people who got it through corruption. Thus, they recycle (launder) the money through people like your landlord. Both benefits. You have to ask yourself how a women would have access to such funds. Probably got it by her ex. Lover (divorce is rare and she would not get his property). Unless it is family wealth, you do not earn such money. Any speculator has earned large sums in the last 10 years. You are correct. At some time, the music stops. Thanks for your insight. It is hard to understand the situation by reading the papers.

[Akibono]

Our freedoms are disappearing all the time. China is now installing facial recognition cameras everywhere. The government says that if citizens have nothing to hide, then we shouldn't give a shit about losing our privacy and civil liberties. I obviously have issues with this.

But if there were any pushback from Chinese citizens, it disappeared this year after the government took away all of our privacy due to the coronavirus, and it actually worked. China is now normal again, and the virus is now not even a bad memory but almost a forgotten memory. Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.

But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.

Given the disasterous response in the USA and EU, I can understand that China may be viewed as a success. But the wheel turns. If an effective vaccine is developed, covid will swiftly fade away, but not completely. You can create an efficient society by treating people like widgets to be optimized in every way. We talk about the chilling influence of censorship, but that is nothing compared to China where you can be snatched off the street and jailed for bad thoughts. The system is designed for spectacular success and failure. It is not designed for stability which is why the government thinks it needs so much control. Frankly, I am surprised that they do not fear their foreign students being corrupted.

There seems to be a lot of angry people on SA. I am often surprised by the rudeness. I wonder if it is harder for women than us guys. They probably get hit on by a bunch of assholes, but what do they expect from such a site. Just like the 9's and 10's do not have to be on the site, the Mr. Gray's are not there either. I am beginning to see the categories of people. Most are not worth my time. I think the US is a poor hunting ground. People's expectations are entirely unrealistic. Still hunting for the elusive diamond.

[Midwestern]

Flawlessly logical. You have to have enough money to play in this game. Being cheap can cost you in the end. So, what sounds like a mongers paradise is really dodging the eyes and ears of a privacy free society. How do people live under the control and watchful eyes of the authorities? I wonder if people will continue to tolerate this in the long run. I suppose if you never do anything against the law, it will not affect you, but I bristle at the way a government can control my actions, my thoughts, and my morality.

Our freedoms are disappearing all the time. China is now installing facial recognition cameras everywhere. The government says that if citizens have nothing to hide, then we shouldn't give a shit about losing our privacy and civil liberties. I obviously have issues with this.

But if there were any pushback from Chinese citizens, it disappeared this year after the government took away all of our privacy due to the coronavirus, and it actually worked. China is now normal again, and the virus is now not even a bad memory but almost a forgotten memory. Even the Americans that live in Shanghai, that I talk to, all now agree that it's great to live in a communist country.

But this is obviously the view of one guy on the streets of Shanghai. Others have other views obviously.

[Midwestern]

Just an interesting tidbit. The new landlord of my love shack is super hot. About 5 foot 6, and thin athletic body. Single divorced mom. Probably late 30's. And she's probably at least twice as rich as me, based on what she divulged regarding the other units that she owns (in China, you can only buy your first property with 30% down payment, for the next property that you buy, the minimum down payment amount is something like 50%, and for the third unit, it's like 70%, etc. , and this is to prevent a real estate bubble. She said my apartment is the smallest place that she owns.).

A few nights ago, after I saw her place for the first time, we were texting quite a lot. It started with texting about specific details about the unit, and negotiating about rent and stuff like that. But then it somehow turned personal. She actually told me she wants to have another kid and is looking for Mr. Right. And then she said we should do lunch sometime. I'm like, WTF just happened? The next day, she started being formal again and only texting about the unit.

[Akibono]

Steve, your job must require strong writing skills. IMHO, you're one of the best writers on ISG.


So, here is what I was able to negotiate.

(1) I rent for 3 months at a time. This just means that I pay 3 months in advance. I only have to give one month's notice that I am done. So, the shortest duration is 3 months as long as I tell the owner that I'm moving out before December. Every time I renew, I am only tacking on 3 more months. To my surprise, the owner (a she) had very little problem with this. Normally, the minimum lease length is one year. My guess is that she finds it pretty easy to find renters.

(2) We do this without a formal lease agreement. This is actually common in China. Renters usually pay three months rent in advance, so home owners don't bear that much risk. I don't know of a single person who has a formal lease arrangement for more than one year. In the first year, there usually is a formal lease simply because an agent is involved. But after that first least is up, the renter and owner just continue without an agent and formal lease. I did the same when I lived in Beijing. After the first year lease was up, I just continued to live in my apartment, always paying 3 months rent in advance, without a lease.

(3) The owner pays for my utilities and I just reimburse her..

Flawlessly logical. You have to have enough money to play in this game. Being cheap can cost you in the end. So, what sounds like a mongers paradise is really dodging the eyes and ears of a privacy free society. How do people live under the control and watchful eyes of the authorities? I wonder if people will continue to tolerate this in the long run. I suppose if you never do anything against the law, it will not affect you, but I bristle at the way a government can control my actions, my thoughts, and my morality.

[Midwestern]

Here is a previously unpublished story from last summer.

Steve, your job must require strong writing skills. IMHO, you're one of the best writers on ISG.

What is a minimum duration of a rental contract? 6 months? A year? The costs should not be compared not just on a monthly basis but for the duration of the contract. If you are traveling, or if Corona hits China again and can't meet, or having a tough and dry month for some reason. Whatever it may be. You are still on the hook for paying the rent. So, the economics make sense only if you have a steady stream of sugar babes to justify the rent and occupancy.

Wow, $1400 for a monthly rent sounds expensive in China, not any different than it is most major US cities. I guess it is because you are in Beijing? With China's per capita income being one eighth of what it is here, I would have thought rents would be much cheaper but it doesn't seem like it.

If you are meeting a girl (s) in this rental place for say 4 times a week, each for 2 or 3 hours, that is roughly 10 hours spent a week in this place. And you have to assume you will spend that much time with this girl week in week out. Essentially, you need this place for 1/15 of a week, I. E. 7% occupancy. I would consider going down the price if possible. It doesn't have to be Marriott quality rental place, Supermotel would do.

Pessimist, I sincerely appreciate your comments and suggestions. I found this place through informal channels, which is common in China because real estate agents get way too huge a cut, something like double typical commissions that you'd find in the USA. Using the informal channels doesn't benefit the renter (me) that much because the home owner is supposed to pay the agent cost. Therefore, when a home owner can find a renter on their own, they are usually very keen on trying to seal the deal so they can avoid paying an agent.

So, here is what I was able to negotiate.

(1) I rent for 3 months at a time. This just means that I pay 3 months in advance. I only have to give one month's notice that I am done. So, the shortest duration is 3 months as long as I tell the owner that I'm moving out before December. Every time I renew, I am only tacking on 3 more months. To my surprise, the owner (a she) had very little problem with this. Normally, the minimum lease length is one year. My guess is that she finds it pretty easy to find renters.

(2) We do this without a formal lease agreement. This is actually common in China. Renters usually pay three months rent in advance, so home owners don't bear that much risk. I don't know of a single person who has a formal lease arrangement for more than one year. In the first year, there usually is a formal lease simply because an agent is involved. But after that first least is up, the renter and owner just continue without an agent and formal lease. I did the same when I lived in Beijing. After the first year lease was up, I just continued to live in my apartment, always paying 3 months rent in advance, without a lease.

(3) The owner pays for my utilities and I just reimburse her.

Originally, I only pitched (1) and (2), and after some negotiation, we agreed on $1285 per month (I previously stated $1400, but my exchange rate calculation was off). Her listing price was $1570 per month, and so I was able to get her to come down quite a bit. She actually showed me her lease agreement with her current tenant and it showed a rent of $1430 per month, and given that the rental market took a bit of hit this year, I felt she should be charging me a lower rent, not a higher rent. I think one reason she finally agreed to the $1285 is because I'm a foreigner. This may be a generalization, but in China, I feel like home owners prefer renting to foreigners because we are easy. We rarely complain and we rarely ask for anything and we rarely destroy property. The other thing is that I told her that it would only be me. No kids or pets.

Then, I remembered that I had to sign up for utilities, and so I asked her to do that for me and that I'd just reimburse her. To my surprise, this put her off. She said that she's never done this for any tenant before, and she's too busy to do stuff like this. However, I simply didn't want my name on anything. So, I pressed the issue. I said I just needed heat and electricity, I did not need cable, phone, or internet. Then she said she should charge me what her current tenant pays in rent. And I said it's a done deal if you include internet too. She said deal. So, I'm paying $1430 per month. Yeah, I admit that I went up too high by adding $145 per month, but I felt like having an opportunity to have a place to myself while INCOGNITO was too good a thing to lose in the final moments of our negotiations.

And yes, rent in Shanghai and Beijing is VERY high. For example, a decent 3 bedroom apartment that is just outside the main downtown area is around $4000 per month. My new place is a 1 bedroom unit, outside the main downtown area, and the unit is pretty nice. I might actually work there sometimes.

And yes, the occupancy rate will be very low, even if I go there and just work sometimes. So, we will see if I feel it's worth it. With my current arrangement, it's just stressful having to find different hotels all the time, and arguing about who books the room all the time. We don't want to become regulars at any hotel, and she doesn't want so many hotel bookings on her "official" record, and every time I book a hotel the police is automatically notified per China policy. And then there's the hassle of having to register guests. Also, hotels give me a VERY tight window, because I cannot check in until after 2 pm and I have to be home for dinner usually by about 5 pm or 6 pm, and then I have to go to the hotel the next morning to "check out. " Of course, I could check out after a few hours, but that would only raise eyebrows. Sure, there are ST hotels, but technically it's illegal for foreigners to use them based on recent regulations, and besides, foreigners in ST hotels also often raises eyebrows and suspicions, especially when the foreigner is a middle-aged American and his "girlfriend" is Chinese who is half his age.

But all in all, this love shack is going to cost me a lot. I would not have done it if it wasn't for the fact that I am likely to have another arrangement. Plus, I'm also thinking about the many outcall pros that I can also bring back to the love shack. If I were only going to use the love shack for one arrangement, there's no way I'd do it.

Another option is that I let my GF find a cheap place of her own and I pay her rent. (She currently shares a place with someone, which is common in Shanghai given the high rent.) But fuck that. I'd be locked into a one year commitment. And I'll also go crazy wondering if she's fucking other guys at her place. And, I wouldn't be able to use the place for my other arrangement and for outcall pros.