Seeking Arrangements

[AmericanPi]

Great post.

Spot on. It really underscores the tension between living in the present and preparing for the future. It's not a simple algorithm.

You can shoot to die broke only if you have no wife and children that you want to pass onto.

The other issue is that it is not an easy skating to the location of the puck. You don't know when you might die exactly. Spend too fast, you will go broke too soon and spend the last years of life as a hobo or worse yet forced to get back to work into a job not suited for your skills and at a pay much less than what you could make. Japan is already in this situation. A number of retirees are being forced to get back to work or partial work to pay for living expenses as they are living too long and their finances are broke.

If you are too conservative in your spending habits, you will die with money left in the bank as you stated astutely..

[Zizou23]

Do you guys send pictures to seeking girls before meeting? If yes, what if the girl expose you on of the are we dating the same guy FB group?

[Pessimist]

I admire the dedication and planning, GFE. Does your planning include dying of Covid, being hit by a truck, or nuclear war with Russia? How about a little closer to home, divorce? Or how about a criminal investigation? We are paying for sex which is illegal right? All the people who do financial planning have it all mapped out and give you words like responsible and pat you on your back for doing so. They talk about your average 11.22% return in the stock market and how to save ETC.

The European perspective is a little different having been through wars. Mark Faber is a Swiss economist who wrote the book Fool's Gold. What he described was that since the year 1000 if you had a 5% return on the equivalent of a penny, you would have more money than is in existence today. If you are living in the USA, what you are seeing is a level of growth and peace not known in the history of the world before. The notion that this is going to stay the same is crazy but the people selling you on "retirement" are doing just that.

And has Warren Buffett retired? Hell no. Why would you retire if you skip to work every day and love what you do like he does? People who retired die on average 3 years sooner than people who keep working. I do not plan on retiring. I plan on cutting back and doing the parts of my job I enjoy the most. If you are looking forward to retirement, then you probably hate your job.

And there is the notion of having $2 million in T bonds with a 5% return and getting $100,000 a year. Well, that is assuming the dollar does not go to shit and inflation is not horrific but even still, does that mean you die with $2 million in the bank? So other people are going to benefit from your hard earned work and not you? Is that what you want? I don't. I want to use my own hard earned money on myself.

When Stephen Pollan wrote the book, Die Broke, he thought it would sell a handful of copies, and it sold tons. The sequel Live Rich is worth reading too.

This is from Amazon: America's most trusted financial advisor comes a comprehensive guide to a new and utterly sane financial choice. In Die Broke, you'll learn that life is a game where the loser gives his money to Uncle Sam at the end. There are four steps to the process:

Quit Today.

No, don't tell your boss to shove it. At least not out loud. But in your head accept that from this day on you're a free agent whose number one workplace priority is your personal bottom line.

Pay Cash.

You should be as conscious of spending as you are of saving. Credit should be a rarely used tool for those few times (buying homes and cars) when paying cash is impossible.

Don't Retire.

Your work life should be a journey up and down hills, rather than a climb up a sheer cliff that ends with a jump into the abyss.

Die Broke.

It sounds terrifying, the one intolerable outcome to your financial life. And yet, in truth, dying broke might be your best option for a life without fear: fear of failure and privation now, fear of impoverishment in the long run.

End of link.

When you think of retirement, you put yourself into this mindset that today you are miserable but long term the sacrifice will be worth it because it will be nirvana later. That is bullshit. Yes, at times, I regret spending money on the hooker who is a loser and spending four figures at a strip club. That stuff is pleasurable in the moment but you often feel badly when you are done. And you could say the same about spending money on drugs. How do you feel when you are done? In contrast with the strippers and hookers, I enjoyed myself with the sugar babies sexually and just hanging out with them, and I have no regrets. They made me happy and vice versa.

To me, if I have enough to pay my expenses and my overall balance sheet is growing, that is all I care about. As long as that is happening, why not spend the rest on what makes me happy?

You can shoot to die broke only if you have no wife and children that you want to pass onto.

The other issue is that it is not an easy skating to the location of the puck. You don't know when you might die exactly. Spend too fast, you will go broke too soon and spend the last years of life as a hobo or worse yet forced to get back to work into a job not suited for your skills and at a pay much less than what you could make. Japan is already in this situation. A number of retirees are being forced to get back to work or partial work to pay for living expenses as they are living too long and their finances are broke.

If you are too conservative in your spending habits, you will die with money left in the bank as you stated astutely.

The last few years of your life are hard to model accurately. Your expenses and desire to spend do not scale linearly. By several calculations, healthcare spend rises very non linearly in the last years. Especially if you have serious diseases like cancer or need skilled home, nursing room, hospice care. Also, you may not have the same desire to fuck and splurge and gain the same enjoyment from other activities as you did when you were younger. Already in my mid 40's I enjoy alcohol much less than I used to, and work stress and other issues mean it also gives much more heartburn. Not worth it except an occasional drink with Co workers or at business events. I wonder if my sex drive slows down as well. Probably has already. The anticipation of fucking a new SB or walking into an FKK to bang a few is not the same as when I was in 30's.

Finally, even the money management is not an easy task. You can obtain 5% only on the short term bonds if you buy today. In 3 months you have to roll it again at whatever rates prevailing then. If you go out farther on the duration curve, you can lock in rates but at lower levels. If you get lucky and inflation is less than expected your long term bonds will appreciate but if you are unlucky and inflation is higher than expected, your holdings will lose value if you sell them. You can hold them till maturity and collect the guaranteed coupon but obviously since inflation is higher than expected in this scenario, the real value of your coupon is not what it was supposed to be. You can also of course buy stocks but they have a totally different risk profile altogether including being substantially less when you need to cash out.

I agree with trying to work as long as you can. It is good for health (assuming you are not a manual worker and your physical health impacted due to heavy lifting etc; I doubt too many Sugar daddies are in this category) and keeps you motivated in life for more than just money. The status you have in life, the satisfaction of keeping the brain sharp and competing with younger folks is not something you can understinate.

[AmericanPi]

I've been financially fortunate in my life. I make more than I ever thought I was going to, and when I run models on my investments it seems clear that I will retire early with more money than I can responsibly spend in my life.

Once I realized this years ago my perspective on this little hobby changed. And life. People save to retire so they can be free one day. But I realized that I have another cost in my life. The opportunity cost of time. Nobody rewards you for over saving. And you can't take it with you.

The biggest regret in life will surely be not doing the things you wanted to do. And I want to do this. So I do whenever I can.

The only thing that throttles me is being married. I have to keep the cash outflow to a below the radar level. Which is still quite high. But here's the interesting part. I don't wish my wife were out of the way. Actually I think the one thing standing between me and self destruction is having someone I need to be attentive to and responsible to. I'd otherwise just spend every 4 weeks in Thailand doing stupid shit and ruining my body.

I suspect others of you are in the same boat as me.

I admire the dedication and planning, GFE. Does your planning include dying of Covid, being hit by a truck, or nuclear war with Russia? How about a little closer to home, divorce? Or how about a criminal investigation? We are paying for sex which is illegal right? All the people who do financial planning have it all mapped out and give you words like responsible and pat you on your back for doing so. They talk about your average 11.22% return in the stock market and how to save ETC.

The European perspective is a little different having been through wars. Mark Faber is a Swiss economist who wrote the book Fool's Gold. What he described was that since the year 1000 if you had a 5% return on the equivalent of a penny, you would have more money than is in existence today. If you are living in the USA, what you are seeing is a level of growth and peace not known in the history of the world before. The notion that this is going to stay the same is crazy but the people selling you on "retirement" are doing just that.

And has Warren Buffett retired? Hell no. Why would you retire if you skip to work every day and love what you do like he does? People who retired die on average 3 years sooner than people who keep working. I do not plan on retiring.

[Elvis 2008]

For me, in the beginning, I just couldn't believe that I could pay someone to massage my little brother until I came, I couldn't believe I could pay someone to get naked with me in the sack, I couldn't believe I could pay someone to let me bang them. And many of these someones were either young or attractive, or both. It was amazing. I was probably addicted.

Yeah, MW, we have been brain washed on that score probably because we were turned down by the hotties when we were younger. At that time the studly muscled men had all the women or said they did and did not want things to change, but things did change as women got older. I and I suspect we were slow to recognize the change.

I was reading this book, The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human Mating by David Buss, and the author polled women to see what they wanted, and you know what they really wanted: someone who can provide them resources, has status / is educated, and is older.

There are some primitive impulses with age that have to be overcome. The ideal age for women is 3 to 10 years older per the survey, but I think if a woman felt like you had adequate resources that could change. Ideally a woman wants a guy who can help raise kids even if they do not come out and say it and if you are old but look young and healthy, I think you could get by.

And you know where looks ranked on the scale for what women want? #7. I have often thought that women may have wanted to not show an older man to their younger female friends but often once women got to know me that really was not an issue. Actually a lot of them liked what I had to say because it was not the usual immature BS they and their friends so often hear.

With men, yes looks and health are like #1 through 5 on the list but actually the reason we pick out the most attractive women has to do with health and bearing children. The two most notable qualities I remember are facial symmetry and the right waist to hip ratio, and that ratio was true among all men of all cultures and the symmetry was true for all age ranges.

Most of us probably started with strippers and WGs like I did and graduated to women / SBs who really wanted to hang around me after the deed was done. I was shocked when I mentioned being the BF with one of my SBs and she considered it. I thought she was so out of my league.

Another common mistake guys make is confusing SBs with WGs. Do you know those flings married women have with the Chippendale types? Well, it turns out they are not Chippendale types but women looking for a better deal, and the men they cheat with are men they are actually interested in dating / being married to. Interestingly, unlike men, the women have no guilt when looking for an upgrade BTW.

So maybe there are the P4 P women who are solely interested in money when meeting, but I think other guys underestimate how well we men sniff those types out. If you have been successful with money, you know those who are just looking at you as a paycheck.

A real SB is interested in your being their husband / BF no matter what they say. They will deny it especially if you are married but this guy's research shows something else. And that is why the sex is so much better. There is trust and genuine affection in the relationship.

If women are really interested in resources first, and they are, seeking allows for cutting out the BS. Where else am I going to meet a stunning woman for a 30 minute to 2 hour interview where I can see if she is compatible with me and what I want? Where else have I met beauty contestant winners, lawyers, doctors ETC who cause other men to cream in their pants when they see them?

One poster in the Medellin moron forum said that he thought men were saps using seeking / SA to find the woman of the dreams because he knew better. The seeking women are all P4 P WG types. He had never ponied up the $100 but somehow he knew all about the women on the site, and he felt the poster below really screwed up.

6. Mariana (23) $100 When I arrived to medellin and sent her a message. I did not offer any money and she did not ask for anything. We met and had dinner. She was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. She asked me for a one time payment of $100. I was obviously unsure but I wanted her so much that I accepted. We headed to my place and I was short the $ 100. I offered to pay later and she accepted. She offered GFE, BBBJ but no BBFS, I would have to wait for that until the 3rd date. She honored her word and I did not pay her any more money. We spent a whole week together and then another week, and again she did not mention any money. We eventually became so attached that I asked her to be my GF and she accepted. We deleted our SA profiles. We traveled to Cancun and Cartagena. We lived together, We dreamed of getting married and having kids. She met my parents and I met her whole family. 8 or so months later we broke up. It's ok if you mock me but I was so happy and it was so beautiful.

Yes, another poster actually was sad for this guy Davv.

Once you accept what women really want and tune out all the fools, it is easy to believe that you can find these women. MW, you are a good provider of resources. Why wouldn't the women want you?

[Elvis 2008]

I spend 2.5% of my income (or 3.5% of post tax). Guess I am being to conservative in spend and worried more than I should about post retirement cash flow.

I admire the dedication and planning, GFE. Does your planning include dying of Covid, being hit by a truck, or nuclear war with Russia? How about a little closer to home, divorce? Or how about a criminal investigation? We are paying for sex which is illegal right? All the people who do financial planning have it all mapped out and give you words like responsible and pat you on your back for doing so. They talk about your average 11.22% return in the stock market and how to save ETC.

The European perspective is a little different having been through wars. Mark Faber is a Swiss economist who wrote the book Fool's Gold. What he described was that since the year 1000 if you had a 5% return on the equivalent of a penny, you would have more money than is in existence today. If you are living in the USA, what you are seeing is a level of growth and peace not known in the history of the world before. The notion that this is going to stay the same is crazy but the people selling you on "retirement" are doing just that.

And has Warren Buffett retired? Hell no. Why would you retire if you skip to work every day and love what you do like he does? People who retired die on average 3 years sooner than people who keep working. I do not plan on retiring. I plan on cutting back and doing the parts of my job I enjoy the most. If you are looking forward to retirement, then you probably hate your job.

And there is the notion of having $2 million in T bonds with a 5% return and getting $100,000 a year. Well, that is assuming the dollar does not go to shit and inflation is not horrific but even still, does that mean you die with $2 million in the bank? So other people are going to benefit from your hard earned work and not you? Is that what you want? I don't. I want to use my own hard earned money on myself.

When Stephen Pollan wrote the book, Die Broke, he thought it would sell a handful of copies, and it sold tons. The sequel Live Rich is worth reading too.

This is from Amazon: America's most trusted financial advisor comes a comprehensive guide to a new and utterly sane financial choice. In Die Broke, you'll learn that life is a game where the loser gives his money to Uncle Sam at the end. There are four steps to the process:

Quit Today.

No, don't tell your boss to shove it. At least not out loud. But in your head accept that from this day on you're a free agent whose number one workplace priority is your personal bottom line.

Pay Cash.

You should be as conscious of spending as you are of saving. Credit should be a rarely used tool for those few times (buying homes and cars) when paying cash is impossible.

Don't Retire.

Your work life should be a journey up and down hills, rather than a climb up a sheer cliff that ends with a jump into the abyss.

Die Broke.

It sounds terrifying, the one intolerable outcome to your financial life. And yet, in truth, dying broke might be your best option for a life without fear: fear of failure and privation now, fear of impoverishment in the long run.

End of link.

When you think of retirement, you put yourself into this mindset that today you are miserable but long term the sacrifice will be worth it because it will be nirvana later. That is bullshit. Yes, at times, I regret spending money on the hooker who is a loser and spending four figures at a strip club. That stuff is pleasurable in the moment but you often feel badly when you are done. And you could say the same about spending money on drugs. How do you feel when you are done? In contrast with the strippers and hookers, I enjoyed myself with the sugar babies sexually and just hanging out with them, and I have no regrets. They made me happy and vice versa.

To me, if I have enough to pay my expenses and my overall balance sheet is growing, that is all I care about. As long as that is happening, why not spend the rest on what makes me happy?

[Midwestern]

Wow, I did not realize that there are many others in the same boat as me, just wanting BBFS, BBBJ, DFK, and espeically GFE. But I guess that is why most of us are in this thread. From what I read, it seems like most of us got here in a similar way, we have already had our fill of HJs, pump and dump, experiences, PSE, and hard core pros.

For me, in the beginning, I just couldn't believe that I could pay someone to massage my little brother until I came, I couldn't believe I could pay someone to get naked with me in the sack, I couldn't believe I could pay someone to let me bang them. And many of these someones were either young or attractive, or both. It was amazing. I was probably addicted.

But now, that I have had my fill of many crazy experiences, fun times, lucky finds, and spoiled situations, I am looking for something more.

A couple of days ago, a young hottie from my past suddenly texted me, wanting to see me. I know the drill with her. I would go to her place, shower, and then a quick BBBJ and rushed CFS, without any kissing. And then she would later use that money to party with her friends. She actually introduced many of her friends to me, for the same drill, including her sister, and there were many threesomes too. But I decided to not see her this time, even though she has a solid 8 face and bod.

I recently went to an MP and the provider and I started making out and it was really intense. I would rather see her again, and she was a 6 at best, than go to an MP where I can get a FS quickie with an 8! I kind of cannot believe it.

Hell, I do not even mind if I am simply a favorite customer of a hard core pro. I like that too. After I see a pro a few times, they might even let me bareback them, with intense DFKing. Instead of dirty talk, they will call me their BF or they will tell me that they love me, and this turns me on. There's one pro, after I leave her place, she will yell out of her window to me that she loves me, and so I love seeing her.

I was supposed to go on a business trip and I tried to find someone to stay with me. Someone that I could grab a bite and drink with at the end of the day, and then have a nightcap in the room, followed by drunk bangage, and then falling asleep naked. But could not find someone this time, and so I canceled my trip, even though I know several gals that I could meet for incall, I know some agencies, I know of a few pickup bars that pros go to. I could easily get laid over a dozen times by a dozen different gals on that business trip, but I do not feel like doing it.

All of that said, there is still one BIG problem. I also love strange (new gals). And so, the search and work are harder, and the strike out rate is higher.

[The Cane]

Even if you are an hour long escort guy, you get more bang for your buck with SBs (same price but more time).

Yeah but a lot of "pump & dump" guys also like some volume. You discounted or actually didn't address at all how hard it can be to find a quality sugar baby, especially for guys living in the States. Same price but more time is offset by having to spend a hell of a lot more time just finding a baby you click with. Even Steve acknowledges how much bullshit you have to wade through on a site like SA. With FKKs when you get there the table is set! And all you have to do is run through it! From club to club to club. Next thing you know you've fucked 20+ different girls in 10 days (if you're having a successful trip and I always do)! For hour-long (or even 30 minute) guys our time is valuable and we don't want to spend it wading through fakes, flakes, fraudsters, and scammers to find "the one". Then have to do it all over again when the relationship ends! No, we want to spend our time fucking hot girls, and not have to go through a lot of rigmarole to do it! To each his own.

[LshRoomer]

Depends on who you ask. For guys who want the girlfriend experience it's easy to see why "sugaring" would be preferable over the FKKs. I mean let's call it what it is. It falls within this gray area of dating on the one hand and prostitution on the other. So a monger can go and have all of these "girlfriends" without having to really commit to any of them. What a perfect combination! But for guys like me who don't have a preference for the GFE? The FKKs (and Brazilian termas too) are still God's gift to mankind. Well maybe the FKKs not so much anymore with their current pricing structure.

IMHO, there is no comparison. I've been in other threads where the guys are protective over subpar girls (UTR threads) and in certain areas, I'm actually surprised that the standard is so low (Orlando). The escorts are either drug addicted, fat, old, dirty, or just untouchable. Win to the SBs.

FKKs are fine. It's a good experience. However, when it comes to having a good night with a pretty girl, that's 99% not a bait and switch or scam, with the high probability that you will probably be banging her at the end of the night, there is little comparison. Of course, there is a caveat if you are not a pump and dump guy (One of the guys told me that he was a pump and dump guy and doesn't spend time with the girl). Then, QVs and def FKKs would be the way to go.

Massage parlors are good too, but I've been turned off recently by the quality and a lack of the massage experience. I'm not really looking to drop 200 for a hh session with a piss poor massage and "please cum fast so I can get to my next client" sex, or a bad CBJ. It seems that the AMPS are cutting to the chase these days. Again SBs win.

Another comparison would be US vs not US, as I've had GFE sessions with escorts in EU that were amazing. Some actually started to give me free sessions and send me digital Christmas cards LOL. Even still, it comes down to what's your pleasure. If you are GFE guy, SBs can't be beat. Even if you are an hour long escort guy, you get more bang for your buck with SBs (same price but more time).

02.

[The Cane]

Absolutely agree with your feelings. I am in same boat. As I am reaching 45, my interests are changing. Now GFE, good connection and passion is more important than just couple hours of sex.

Depends on who you ask. For guys who want the girlfriend experience it's easy to see why "sugaring" would be preferable over the FKKs. I mean let's call it what it is. It falls within this gray area of dating on the one hand and prostitution on the other. So a monger can go and have all of these "girlfriends" without having to really commit to any of them. What a perfect combination! But for guys like me who don't have a preference for the GFE? The FKKs (and Brazilian termas too) are still God's gift to mankind. Well maybe the FKKs not so much anymore with their current pricing structure.

[Pk099]

Absolutely agree with your feelings. I am in same boat. As I am reaching 45, my interests are changing. Now GFE, good connection and passion is more important than just couple hours of sex.

In my recent trip to Mexico city, on the last day when I met my favorite SA girl, we spent all night watching TV and drinking wine with lot of cuddling and kissing on the couch. There was no desire to have hard sex. We had sex only in the morning before she left and that was in shower.

Sounds strange but, I will be visiting Bangkok this summer and already started messaging SA girls, instead of looking for massage parlors and go-go bars.

Plan to take some "couple massages" with SA girls after meeting them and before going to hotel.

I no longer enjoy CBJ and CFS. I also do not like PSE anymore, where the gal is acting all slutty. Now, I only enjoy the BB experience, and it has to include passionate DFK and GFE. Anyone else in this boat?

This is why I liked SA, because I could occassionally find this on there. But I am now trying to find PPM arrangments with non-pros and semi-pros on my own, and man, it is a lot of work.

[Steve 9696]

Well being jaded sucks. But it means we've tasted the high life! Thank god I get to fuck the likes of Smoke Show, my 9. 5 Rio goddess and my home girl Shayla. Doesn't seem possible. But it is! And it's magical. Thank you Seeking! 🙏127995;.

[Gfefan]

Absolutely on the same boat.

I used to spend time and money on tnaboard girls in the US earlier. Then, like Steve says, enjoyed FKK thinking it is a gift to man. Then, I really discovered SA (through this forum. Thank you, guys! And got spoiled. GFE, BBBJ, BBFS, DFK, makeout sessions are the only things I enjoy. Come to hate condoms.

Sadly, back in the US and women here kind of are offputting me. Hoping to return to Europe, and get the seeking game back on.

I no longer enjoy CBJ and CFS. I also do not like PSE anymore, where the gal is acting all slutty. Now, I only enjoy the BB experience, and it has to include passionate DFK and GFE. Anyone else in this boat?

This is why I liked SA, because I could occassionally find this on there. But I am now trying to find PPM arrangments with non-pros and semi-pros on my own, and man, it is a lot of work.

[Steve 9696]

I no longer enjoy CBJ and CFS. I also do not like PSE anymore, where the gal is acting all slutty. Now, I only enjoy the BB experience, and it has to include passionate DFK and GFE. Anyone else in this boat?

This is why I liked SA, because I could occassionally find this on there. But I am now trying to find PPM arrangments with non-pros and semi-pros on my own, and man, it is a lot of work.

Yeah it's def a problem that you become jaded. I have such amazing sex and GFE w my home girl Shayla that I find FKK and all a bit disappointing now, where I used to think it was gods gift to man. Def get closer to GFE with Seeking and I've had good success with DFK and BBBJ and even quite a bit of bareback because properly chosen they are just fun horny girls and they are ready to rumble!

(Although you should be able to get BBBJ most venues worldwide IMO).

[KeviKev68]

I no longer enjoy CBJ and CFS. I also do not like PSE anymore, where the gal is acting all slutty. Now, I only enjoy the BB experience, and it has to include passionate DFK and GFE. Anyone else in this boat?

This is why I liked SA, because I could occassionally find this on there. But I am now trying to find PPM arrangments with non-pros and semi-pros on my own, and man, it is a lot of work.

Me too, I am too old for CFS and I hate obj. I love DATY so I expect obj.