Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[Sirioja]

Do you think this is fake news just to play a pun on the US or HK rioting? I wouldn't bet against it given the timing. LOL. Dibs for originality though. At first I thought it was a TheOnion article before checking.

Over killer virus, crazy chloroquine Trump has now to hide underground in White House, rather than going to speak to many millions black people in his country.

[Pessimist]

In that case, and knowing a vaccine will take a year at least, we have 2 options, close for everyone OR close for riskier people and open for less risky, there are very high evidence that most healthy people under 65 years old will have very mild sympetmes or no symptoms at all, so I think Sweden got it right, and I think FKK should allow people under 65 to enter the club until there is a vaccine.

I know this will not happen, but I think dealing with the virus with one strategy for ALL ages is non sense.

My view on such matters, which is identical to the stance I took when I had a disagreement with Gino back in Jan and Feb (he was advocating that clubs should deny admission to all people with an Asian look), is that entry guidelines to public places and events should be provided and drafted by the government. If 65 year olds need to be protected, quarantined or denied entry and kept at home, such matters are up to regulators and government. I think it is a slippery slope for FKKs and restaurants and other commercial establishments to start making up their own rule books, each different from the other.

[Pessimist]

(erudite definition of science deleted)

"The IC is headed by the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), whose statutory leadership is exercised through the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI)". The IC has 17 members (including CIA and NSA). Fauci has been

(Dr Fauci's title and his pedigree were kindly provided although easily available on the internet; deleted here for the purpose of brevity)

(more pedantic and erudite definitions on science deleted; the kindness is very much appreciated however)

Finally, I prefer to defer to the experts once more....

I think they realize that we are both entrenched. .

Dr. Fauci is a part of US president's covid task force. It also has Dr. Birx, Seema Verma, Surgeon General Adams, health secretary Azar. CDC head Dr Redfield also advises POTUS. I realize some people may not have much regard for this country or our experts and task force and would much rather listen to WHO and their Chinese bosses, but this covid task force are the highest council in the land on this matter, and the POTUS speaks on their behalf and on behalf of US government. Foreigners may not not understand this, but that is how it has worked in the US.

Deferring to the experts is a good idea, but apparently some people pick and choose the experts that agree with their preconceived views. One example would be using one Nature paper and ignoring other teams around the world which are working on further investigations, or even further, picking the parts of the Nature paper itself that is confirmatory of one's views.

I am glad you can enunciate my view as entrenched. As far as I know, the investigation is not complete. I know for a fact that the investigation was blocked by a totalitarian regime depriving of critical data; I also understand several other investigations are still going on. As such, I don't have any view on the origins of the virus, and as you say "I listen to the experts" and wait for their verdict. I however can understand some other erudite acolytes of science have made up their mind based on the portions of papers they referenced in some journals. I just do not have such talent for jumping so quickly to assess scientific consensus, I feel like it is just loose talk.

Thank you, it was a most interesting discussion. Have a good day and happy mongering.

[TeaInTheSun]

Funny when I read US telling they are in sex prison in a so huge country 15 times larger than my small beloved France, I think only Texas may be larger than France. In Miami had no problem but it was on 1997 and 1999, maybe change now, to find a pretty Puerto Rican but blond with long hair and big shinning smile, prettier than Americans I saw, she was not escorting but kind of part timer when she needed money. In Vegas, found kind of club in downtown, when I didn't follow on strip when I was proposed but couldn't see the girl, only a paper with number, but I enjoyed to walk the whole strip from Circus and back, before going to downtown, it was 2007 . Also found a small club in San Francisco close to a very climby short street, not California nor the one with many curves I woke up at 4.30 am to go to climb because direction is only downhill. Great police stopping all cars in crossings when I was climbing California, but worst was to go down, blocking brakes, impossible to stop, so police stopping again cars. I paid 200 USD and we stayed nearly 1 hour with this cute small brunette, really sweet nearly passionate, I remember she was surprised by foreplay for sure she never experienced and then she let go, but find more impressive Romanian looks in brothels for 100/60. But in 2008, could still find and also Canada where women are prettier than Americans is closer than Europe, found kind of escort in Quebec, quite pretty on 2012 but so talkative, she spoke french, speaking during foreplay and sex and I didn't understand what she said, so had to concentrate to try to understand, making her repeating, it was not so sensual but funny sex. Also Mexico but I m not really into Latina types, but I'm sure not so difficult to find plenty of poor girls needing money. Same like Romanians from Western Europeans.

Anyway, when Switzerland is first after our bois de Boulogne to reopen risky playfield on 6 June like one of the most beautiful club I know, Freubad where I had a exceptional discovery of the club and 2 extreme GFE rooms with Anna. Ro on her second day, not speaking German nor English, but we really didn t need and her friend and desk understood, on last 1 August, as I told to desk: You are better than Globe, now they welcome me and propose me flexible package how I like, when my discovery cost 269 CHF, around 250 with 2 rooms with a rare girl, really just fallen from the truck driven by her friend who seemed surprised I chose the newbie who couldn't speak, but a virgin fresh beauty versus a prostitute, even she was lovely. Nevertheless, better to be aware about risks and for relatives like wife, old mother. Quite impossible no virus in brothels, even when only Swiss until 15 June. So they delayed Globe opening to 19, because not enough girls and Swiss are not enough for business. But no need to rush, first I won t pay for mask sex, and I was so happy for my 2 first climbing days in my beloved mountains. When I arrived on Friday, I felt in my home land, I was so frustrated not to ski, I needed to go to walk with bicycle shoes in snow, I just felt good, when I remember some girls telling: this is not a place for you, at LR, GT, World, Sharks and Globe, not only once, one at LR proposed me to make appointment when and how long I wanted and then I could not stay in club, I know she tried her best to propose me, but as I told to Kate: appointment mean prostitution, where is desire? But wonderful France is for sure a place for me when my mother made me as a beauty lover, and I love so much our so beautiful mountains, when some may prefer our 3 big seas and little one Leman. Even I was quite impressed by performance after virus and 6 months without intensive sport, only killing skis on rocks for Christmas and giving up after 2 days, no interest to ski like this, but most important was to feel real freedom, no mask in mountains, and also great feeling on bicycle even more important than interesting climbing times. When I m sure I gave much more than 100 000 in 7 years to Romania, if I go one day, I expect they will close Transfagarasan for me, to make a run as I told this is my only reason to go, to Megan, to compare with exceptionnal Prato Stelvio, when no need to go to Brasov to ski. What runs in la Madeleine or Cormet Roseland, motorbikes didn't insist, when over 160 in some lines, need left foot on brake to kick in, but less impressive than going downhill 70 km / h with very narrow tires bicycle, even more impressive than running 100 km / h on skis and so much more impressive than 250 on autobahns, so great fun in mountains and improving health and mood. So after working and paying tax under virus, I decided I will try to go on holidays every week end until end of my season in Mont Ventoux on end of September, in my wonderful country, of course I won't go to Negresco, I prefer to work and listen to my music: Californian Toto, legendary Led Zepellin, Neil Young, black heroe Jimi Hendrix, real musicians, US were the best for this, even falling down to Eminen now. Of course I want to go to Dolomiti for Giro legends, have to tell about 28% Gentille Bora leader in mountain Formolo, he will tell me: You are really crazy, this is just so hard intense to kill body, but I want to climb, just to push limits, to make sure, when over 50, but still have power for, when probably no professionnal will never do because may be too dangerous for their body when they didn't want to climb Zoncolan for years, so of course easy with girls after and really no need for viagra to be firm belly, ass and more. Sport give health and performance in bed. Many pleasures, just have to be able to make them in our life, and I want my great enjoyable 4 months Summer when I didn't have my Winter pleasure. I will work for this, before ski for Christmas wishing for snow.

Hey Siri, you are quite a character! In my case, all my marathons were cancelled for this year. I will try biking, even liking the competition more.

[Polyamorist]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-monkeys-escape-with-covid-19-samples-after-attacking-lab-assistant-11996752

Do you think this is fake news just to play a pun on the US or HK rioting? I wouldn't bet against it given the timing. LOL. Dibs for originality though. At first I thought it was a TheOnion article before checking.

Well when I first read it, I wasn't sure if they were plagiarizing '28 Days Later' or 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes'. But monkeys are a serious part of Indian life. They are considered sacred, like cows. When lockdown happened, monkeys took over the deserted streets.

[Turgid]

............ and I think FKK should allow people under 65 to enter the club until there is a vaccine............

Hahaha, do you think that there are establishments, especially sex clubs, that would willingly reduce their profits by 50%.

[Pistons]

As if the news wasn't bad enough already, a band of "highly intelligent" rhesus monkeys has attacked a medical center in Delhi and escaped with a batch of coronavirus blood test samples. It is not clear yet whether their scientists will be able to create an even deadlier strain, but they are a species known to have many grievances and I wouldn't rule out urban rioting or further acts of bioterrorism in the future.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...stant-11996752

(Like most primates, rhesus monkeys are polyamorous. If they were to take over, there would be a lot less hang-ups in society. In any conflict I would find my loyalties divided. But it is in the nature of polyamory to divide loyalties anyway.)

Do you think this is fake news just to play a pun on the US or HK rioting? I wouldn't bet against it given the timing. LOL. Dibs for originality though. At first I thought it was a TheOnion article before checking.

[McAdonis]

"The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2" - thank you for the link. The date of this paper is March 17,2020. Is this the most authoritative paper in your view? Yes, it has 114 citations but it is tough to place in context, given that it is a Nature paper, it was from mid March and research intensity related to Corona has increased since west is now being impacted much more. Any future work after mid March would naturally cite a paper from Nature, given that this is a new topic which is of interest to many scientists working to solve this problem all over the world.

Definition of science from Cambridge dictionary: "the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the natural and physical world". This is a list of some of the most influential scientific journals (spoiler: Nature is in that list). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tific_journals.

"The IC is headed by the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), whose statutory leadership is exercised through the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI)". The IC has 17 members (including CIA and NSA). Fauci has been director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984. Both qualify as experts in their related fields and both do not believe SARS-CoV-2 is manmade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ence_Community.

Science never speaks in absolutes. It is always about ever-increasing probabilities. To a scientist, there is never 100 percent certainty, hence it is not possible to prove anything, but only accept or reject ideas based on existing evidence. That means you can continue to gather evidence until infinity, and a scientist would still qualify their statement with "Based on existing evidence. " So while, no scientist will ever claim that the theory of evolution is 100 percent accurate, the debates have for all intents and purposes stopped within the scientific community. Instead the focus of scientists have shifted and the fierce debates now exist elsewhere. For instance, the theory that life evolved from single-cell organisms to humans is widely accepted. But there are fierce debates over the origins of the the first animal sponge. In other words, the path from single celled organisms to the sponge. Similarly, the theory that the virus was genetically modified is no longer the subject of investigation, but rather the zoonotic path of the virus. Determining the zoonotic path requires scientists to "obtain viral sequences from animal sources". The "Nature" paper has been around over 60 days. The authors of scientific papers want their work to be scrutinized. If there are scientists that question their methodologies and conclusions, I am not aware of them. https://www.quantamagazine.org/scien...mals-20190717/.

Finally, I prefer to defer to the experts once more. This time to another field, the "pseudoscience" of psychology. Here is the definition for the backfire effect: "When someone tries to correct you, tries to dilute your misconceptions, it backfires and strengthens them instead. " So if anyone is still reading, I think they realize that we are both entrenched. No side will be convinced here, so it is pointless to continue. The only thing "proven" thus far is that we both have too much time on our hands. I do not have any hard feelings over anything written. Look forward to your input on other topics in future, but five or six back-and-forths on a single topic is enough for me.

[Sirioja]

For this reason, I do not understand how there can be mongers who count the days, such as prisoners who cross out the days on the wall they need to leave, to find the door opened of FKK if there is a high percentage of infecting you and then infecting your relatives with covid. If you are over 60 years old, think that it may be the last time you are with a girl who will jerk you off with gloves. What a pathetic ending for a monger! Think in another hobby until at least next year.

Funny when I read US telling they are in sex prison in a so huge country 15 times larger than my small beloved France, I think only Texas may be larger than France. In Miami had no problem but it was on 1997 and 1999, maybe change now, to find a pretty Puerto Rican but blond with long hair and big shinning smile, prettier than Americans I saw, she was not escorting but kind of part timer when she needed money. In Vegas, found kind of club in downtown, when I didn't follow on strip when I was proposed but couldn't see the girl, only a paper with number, but I enjoyed to walk the whole strip from Circus and back, before going to downtown, it was 2007 . Also found a small club in San Francisco close to a very climby short street, not California nor the one with many curves I woke up at 4.30 am to go to climb because direction is only downhill. Great police stopping all cars in crossings when I was climbing California, but worst was to go down, blocking brakes, impossible to stop, so police stopping again cars. I paid 200 USD and we stayed nearly 1 hour with this cute small brunette, really sweet nearly passionate, I remember she was surprised by foreplay for sure she never experienced and then she let go, but find more impressive Romanian looks in brothels for 100/60. But in 2008, could still find and also Canada where women are prettier than Americans is closer than Europe, found kind of escort in Quebec, quite pretty on 2012 but so talkative, she spoke french, speaking during foreplay and sex and I didn't understand what she said, so had to concentrate to try to understand, making her repeating, it was not so sensual but funny sex. Also Mexico but I m not really into Latina types, but I'm sure not so difficult to find plenty of poor girls needing money. Same like Romanians from Western Europeans.

Anyway, when Switzerland is first after our bois de Boulogne to reopen risky playfield on 6 June like one of the most beautiful club I know, Freubad where I had a exceptional discovery of the club and 2 extreme GFE rooms with Anna. Ro on her second day, not speaking German nor English, but we really didn t need and her friend and desk understood, on last 1 August, as I told to desk: You are better than Globe, now they welcome me and propose me flexible package how I like, when my discovery cost 269 CHF, around 250 € with 2 rooms with a rare girl, really just fallen from the truck driven by her friend who seemed surprised I chose the newbie who couldn't speak, but a virgin fresh beauty versus a prostitute, even she was lovely. Nevertheless, better to be aware about risks and for relatives like wife, old mother. Quite impossible no virus in brothels, even when only Swiss until 15 June. So they delayed Globe opening to 19, because not enough girls and Swiss are not enough for business. But no need to rush, first I won t pay for mask sex, and I was so happy for my 2 first climbing days in my beloved mountains. When I arrived on Friday, I felt in my home land, I was so frustrated not to ski, I needed to go to walk with bicycle shoes in snow, I just felt good, when I remember some girls telling: this is not a place for you, at LR, GT, World, Sharks and Globe, not only once, one at LR proposed me to make appointment when and how long I wanted and then I could not stay in club, I know she tried her best to propose me, but as I told to Kate: appointment mean prostitution, where is desire? But wonderful France is for sure a place for me when my mother made me as a beauty lover, and I love so much our so beautiful mountains, when some may prefer our 3 big seas and little one Leman. Even I was quite impressed by performance after virus and 6 months without intensive sport, only killing skis on rocks for Christmas and giving up after 2 days, no interest to ski like this, but most important was to feel real freedom, no mask in mountains, and also great feeling on bicycle even more important than interesting climbing times. When I m sure I gave much more than 100 000 € in 7 years to Romania, if I go one day, I expect they will close Transfagarasan for me, to make a run as I told this is my only reason to go, to Megan, to compare with exceptionnal Prato Stelvio, when no need to go to Brasov to ski. What runs in la Madeleine or Cormet Roseland, motorbikes didn't insist, when over 160 in some lines, need left foot on brake to kick in, but less impressive than going downhill 70 km / h with very narrow tires bicycle, even more impressive than running 100 km / h on skis and so much more impressive than 250 on autobahns, so great fun in mountains and improving health and mood. So after working and paying tax under virus, I decided I will try to go on holidays every week end until end of my season in Mont Ventoux on end of September, in my wonderful country, of course I won't go to Negresco, I prefer to work and listen to my music: Californian Toto, legendary Led Zepellin, Neil Young, black heroe Jimi Hendrix, real musicians, US were the best for this, even falling down to Eminen now. Of course I want to go to Dolomiti for Giro legends, have to tell about 28% Gentille Bora leader in mountain Formolo, he will tell me: You are really crazy, this is just so hard intense to kill body, but I want to climb, just to push limits, to make sure, when over 50, but still have power for, when probably no professionnal will never do because may be too dangerous for their body when they didn't want to climb Zoncolan for years, so of course easy with girls after and really no need for viagra to be firm belly, ass and more. Sport give health and performance in bed. Many pleasures, just have to be able to make them in our life, and I want my great enjoyable 4 months Summer when I didn't have my Winter pleasure. I will work for this, before ski for Christmas wishing for snow.

[Polyamorist]

As if the news wasn't bad enough already, a band of "highly intelligent" rhesus monkeys has attacked a medical center in Delhi and escaped with a batch of coronavirus blood test samples. It is not clear yet whether their scientists will be able to create an even deadlier strain, but they are a species known to have many grievances and I wouldn't rule out urban rioting or further acts of bioterrorism in the future.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...stant-11996752

(Like most primates, rhesus monkeys are polyamorous. If they were to take over, there would be a lot less hang-ups in society. In any conflict I would find my loyalties divided. But it is in the nature of polyamory to divide loyalties anyway.)

[Sirioja]

In that case, and knowing a vaccine will take a year at least, we have 2 options, close for everyone OR close for riskier people and open for less risky, there are very high evidence that most healthy people under 65 years old will have very mild sympetmes or no symptoms at all, so I think Sweden got it right, and I think FKK should allow people under 65 to enter the club until there is a vaccine.

I know this will not happen, but I think dealing with the virus with one strategy for ALL ages is non sense.

Sweden have the worst capital under virus, competing with down under NYC, but I agree when in France more than 90% of our too many deaths are more than 65 yo, but obese, diabetic, with cancer treatment, lungs and heart problems are also in danger and also for relatives around you, but some guys go for AO and return to wife after. Each one play own risk, but I think Germany is thinking about R0 when they have so many brothels and prostitutes from many origins. New law didn't work efficient except for registration.

[Sirioja]

This was written on 23 March, took place not far from Leman lake and Geneva, 2 Colombian prostitutes, the one 36 yo infected had clients who can be and bring back at home, same like what could happen in brothels, one infected with no symptom, no fever, infect a healthy girl also with no symptom so she doesn't know, a superstar who makes 10 clients in her day, but most not so healthy, some return to wife at home who has diabetes or breast cancer, some go to another club on next day or next week, and then try to calculate running R0. I don t know when brothels will reopen but I m sure really impossible to prevent virus from coming to brothels, even with Europe closed borders, even with quarantine for UK as they do, but even virus is now very slow in Western Europe, but still killing few, despite Summer heat, protection used now in Europe, and what will happen on Autumn when will be 10 degrees? I think nobody know, but better to be aware brothels are risky playfield and not only for this virus, reason why hygiene is so important for me and why I tell when girls don t even have to take shower, when a previous client came on her body, or after going to toilets and You need to wait to make come wet not to taste bitter.

I think she should be prosecuted, not for prostitution which is legal in France, but because she kept on working when infected. France should cure her and next plane to Bogota. Remind me a crazy guy, I think to remember UK, who wanted to infect others with HIV he got, or US images a french journalist took about people threatening coughing in face other people.

[Pessimist]

You are correct in that we should not be using the term "scientific consensus" loosely. This could takes decades to establish. Nevertheless, this was the verbiage used in the Director of National Intelligence statement issued on April 30 which stated the virus "was not manmade or genetically modified".

Scientists' primary reasons for casting doubt on the "man-made" conspiracy theory are as follows: (1) manipulation leaves evidence that other virologists can detect. (2) virologists are not clever enough to construct a coronavirus that is harmful to humans unless they use one of the six other coronaviruses known to be harmful to humans as a template. SARS-CoV-2 only has an 80 percent resemblance to SARS-CoV-1 that triggered the outbreak in 2003.

As stated before scientists do not know the origins (zoonotic path it took to infect humans). But a peer-reviewed paper, which I will repost the link to states "Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus". This paper has been cited 114 times. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9..

First of all, thank you for the kind reply. Very helpful.

"we should not be using the term "scientific consensus" loosely" : glad you feel that way. I quite agree with you.

"verbiage used in the Director of National Intelligence" : Question: Is Director of National Intelligence the gold standard in your view? Are they supposed to be the most objective, scientifically oriented organization, the standard setting body so to speak? Obviously, if they are, then we should follow their lead. I was not aware that they are considered to be such gold standard.

"Scientists' primary reasons for casting doubt. " : I am curious if this is *all* the scientists, some scientists, most of the scientists. Any quantification would be helpful. For example, 99.9% of the scientists, or some such percent. Would that be virologists, epidemiologists, bio statisticians, all of them? US / China / EU / India / Japan /. ? I hope this reference to scientists is not a euphemism for the "consensus" which I think you now believe to be "loosely used".

"scientists do not know the origins" - I have the same question as above, I. E. Who are the scientists in this reference. I personally believe there are investigations going on at the moment and it is too early to say anything conclusive. I keep scratching my head why some scientists are still doing investigations if this is such a settled question -- for example, no one is investigating that earth goes around the sun. That to a lay person like me would be settled science.

"The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2" - thank you for the link. The date of this paper is March 17,2020. Is this the most authoritative paper in your view? Yes, it has 114 citations but it is tough to place in context, given that it is a Nature paper, it was from mid March and research intensity related to Corona has increased since west is now being impacted much more. Any future work after mid March would naturally cite a paper from Nature, given that this is a new topic which is of interest to many scientists working to solve this problem all over the world.

The paper says the following "It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of a related SARS-CoV-like coronavirus" - they do not say what this probability is supposed to be. The further say "since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible" - again, they are not able to definitively say a lab is not involved. Finally, they conclude with "More scientific data could swing the balance of evidence to favor one hypothesis over another". Their entire theme is that based on the evidence and data they currently have access to, they have made some probabilistic estimates, but just that -- probabilistic and estimate, about a novel virus.

"My point is the scientific evidence has absolved CCP from genetically manipulation" -- it has? I would love to see any link to this particular claim. Would that be the aforementioned consensus? Or is it the probabilistic estimate in the one Nature paper, whose authors do not have access to the source info and which they make a clear note of ("Obtaining related viral sequences from animal sources would be the most definitive way of revealing viral origins".

Absolved is a very definitive claim. "Scientific evidence has absolved" is an even bigger claim. It would be lovely to see your links to the resources in which such a claim can be verified. For lay men like me who are not at the obvious high level of scientific learning as others, it would be even better if this absolution is presented in black and white.

Thank you again for your very helpful answer.

[Tuber19]

same like what could happen in brothels, one infected with no symptom, no fever, infect a healthy girl also with no symptom so she doesn't know, a superstar who makes 10 clients in her day, but most not so healthy, some return to wife at home who has diabetes or breast cancer, some go to another club on next day or next week, and then try to calculate running R0. .

In that case, and knowing a vaccine will take a year at least, we have 2 options, close for everyone OR close for riskier people and open for less risky, there are very high evidence that most healthy people under 65 years old will have very mild sympetmes or no symptoms at all, so I think Sweden got it right, and I think FKK should allow people under 65 to enter the club until there is a vaccine.

I know this will not happen, but I think dealing with the virus with one strategy for ALL ages is non sense.

[Pistons]

The way you can that this is how it works, is when you read articles about the various topics, and everything is rethorics. While there is zero scientific hard evidence involved in the article itself. In other words, paid propaganda.

And when do people pay for propaganda. Well according to two renowned owners of big pr bureaus I know: 'only when there is something to hide. If there is nothing to hide, they just assume there is no reason to pay for the PR'.