Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[ExpatLover]

The standard explanation / excuse from the right wing is that nothing from China can be trusted. So, in their narrative, who knows how many got infected, how many died in China, if they really have it in control?!

I see this strident vehemence on US boards quite often. Such as WSJ etc. Commenters get offended if anyone says China got it under control. To them, it is an insinuation that China commie regime is more effective than Trump's regime (and that is a big no-no for the right wing, as they believe he is the greatest at everything).

When US went over 100,000 cases (China topped at 80 K), they said "oh, China's 80,000 can't be trusted". Then we went over a million cases and 2 mil, 5 mil, now 10 mil. Our death toll went past their 5,000 then we topped 10,000 then 50,000, 100,000 and now approaching a quarter mil. Apparently in the right winger view, as our numbers grow China's numbers also stretch ahead of ours just so that we are NEVER the worst. Very elastic model indeed. (however, as soon as Biden takes over. Which he will, regardless of the latest reveries of these people. Then their story line changes and they will be the most concerned party about covid explosions in US. Like a 2020 tea party which suddenly wakes up about fiscal prudence when Dems come to power. And BTW, I fell for these tea baggers and gave them a donation in 2012. Should have wasted that money on a Asian hunter in Sharks or Oase)..

All what US firms have achieved in the last decades is to transfer their production (know how, technology to China), I know very well China, have a Chinese driving license, a car. All those critics about China are just jalousie, most of the Chinese people are very happy, living is improving, food is available every where. They are a homogenous country probably number 1 today, if China for a reason or another decides to stops Apple business in China Apple is more or less dead and the dow jones will be strongly hit.

[Pessimist]

I think withholding news like that until after the election is fine. They operated independently of Trump's efforts, why have their success used by him as a boasting point? Everything good that happens is Trump's doing, everything bad that happens is blamed on somebody else. That's how his mind works. Staying out of the election buzz was good for everyone.

Actually, election was finished by Tuesday night and the vaccine data was in the media by the *following Monday morning* (November 9). I have not seen any evidence that Pfizer withheld the data publication for a full 6 days. If the data had been released on Nov 5 or 6 or 8th, it would have made exactly zero difference to the election result as votes were already cast (unless some Trump voters were planning to take back their votes and re-vote again depending on vaccine data).

PFE management has a fiduciary duty to their shareholders. Any leak of info showing that PFE withheld the data for 6 days to influence the election outcome would tank the stock price because it could be deemed a criminal deed. I do not know the full legal liability of PFE mgmt with regards to the timing of such disclosure and when they need to make it. But with the current AG Barr, there is no question that investors would be worried about punitive measures. Why would PFE executives risk their own life and freedom, their compensation of several dozens of millions which is tied to the stock price, and massive class action lawsuits in the event of stock tanking, all in the hope of making some small dent on an election in which facts were anyway called fake, and QAnon was treated with reverence?

Be that as it may, none of this matters. Wolverine Genius Gino has already pronounced we are sheeples because we did not do a bobblehead dance upon hearing the vaccine news and claim "there I told you so, the virus is CURED as soon as the election is over.

BTW, I saw 142,000 news cases detected yesterday. I was under the impression the virus was CURED on Monday? But 142,000 new cases, a record total on Tuesday. Hmm. Must be fake news.

[Paulie97]

No man, I'm no genius, just a simple realist observer fly on the wall.

You fancy yourself a realist but are a sheeple that follows fake news, chases down conspiracy theories, and promotes fool's errands.

1) US Supreme Court still might fuck it up. RealClearPolitics already yesterday put Philadelphia back to undecided, and too many irregularities are coming up into light all over the map. Not good.

LOL I see you are listening to the loser Rudy Giuliani, the guy who had the "bombshell" press conference beside the adult bookstore in front of "Four Seasons" landscaping service. You've swallowed and now are spreading fake news. RealClearPolitics never recanted anything as they never called PA to begin with.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5...-this-is-false

That said, every major news network and the AP have Biden as the projected winner. He leads in PA by over 48 K votes, plus in GA (14 K), AZ (12 K), and NV (17 K). There's no evidence of any widespread voter fraud or irregularities that would change the outcome of the election. You are just chasing down more conspiracy theories with your fellow sheeple. The election is over.

2) Sheeples, including many governments around the world, need to acknowledge that lockdowns and masking up really doesn't help overall, except for delaying the eventual inevitable. Taxes and Death.

Ignoring the fact that you've already been comprehensively refuted on this point many times doesn't help. Nor will repeating this fallacy over and over ever make it true.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_nauseam

There's a number of countries that have seen less than 100 Covid deaths while implementing such policies, such as New Zealand (25), Thailand (60) and Taiwan (7). There's also been a number of countries like South Korea that got off to a rough start but managed to smash the curve with sound policies. This has bought time for the discovery of effective treatments and vaccines. Many lives have been saved, though you haven't been able to purchase hookers in your preferred venues. Waa Waa. Cry me a river.

But the MSM (and the DNC) approved celebrations by the sheeples without need for social distancing last weekend all over the USA gave me some guidance, so hopefully the FKK life will be back to normal by February 2021.

Do you have poor eyesight and just failed to see that 99% of them were wearing masks? Or are you just a sheeple that swallows the dishonest analysis from fake news sources? Smart money is on the latter. These celebrators offer a good example for the moronic, diseased, outgoing Trump administration with their indoor, maskless socials. But hey I know those celebrations are unnerving for you, but that's democracy. The people have spoken.

[Palcon]

Any time I hear or read this I ask myself the question How did China get the pandemic under control?

They lock the wolves w / symptoms in their homes until they die or get better.

[Gino02]

Any time I hear or read this I ask myself the question How did China get the pandemic under control?

Well, don't you want to ask yourself first how and why did China start the pandemic to start with? My money is on the honest answer to that, but too bad we will never know it if we actually end up with the Chinese government running USA in January, and then rest of the world by proxy.

[Pessimist]

Any time I hear or read this I ask myself the question How did China get the pandemic under control?

The standard explanation / excuse from the right wing is that nothing from China can be trusted. So, in their narrative, who knows how many got infected, how many died in China, if they really have it in control?!

I see this strident vehemence on US boards quite often. Such as WSJ etc. Commenters get offended if anyone says China got it under control. To them, it is an insinuation that China commie regime is more effective than Trump's regime (and that is a big no-no for the right wing, as they believe he is the greatest at everything).

When US went over 100,000 cases (China topped at 80 K), they said "oh, China's 80,000 can't be trusted". Then we went over a million cases and 2 mil, 5 mil, now 10 mil. Our death toll went past their 5,000 then we topped 10,000 then 50,000, 100,000 and now approaching a quarter mil. Apparently in the right winger view, as our numbers grow China's numbers also stretch ahead of ours just so that we are NEVER the worst. Very elastic model indeed. (however, as soon as Biden takes over. Which he will, regardless of the latest reveries of these people. Then their story line changes and they will be the most concerned party about covid explosions in US. Like a 2020 tea party which suddenly wakes up about fiscal prudence when Dems come to power. And BTW, I fell for these tea baggers and gave them a donation in 2012. Should have wasted that money on a Asian hunter in Sharks or Oase).

Only trouble is that any number of people have visited China (strict 2 week quarantine before being let out) and their streets are buzzing. Malls, tourist sites, restaurants are all full. Our own companies like Nike, Apple, SBUX are doing brisk business over there (AAPL had a bad quarter in September but June was good). My own personal contacts keep sending photos showing long lines everywhere. No one has found any mass graves of thousands of covid dead.

But facts are wasted on these dudes. No doubt I will be called a Sheeple by Wolverine Gino. I am in awe of his prowess, oh my.

I detest the evil commie regime in China more than anyone else does, but we will NOT MAGA by keeping our eyes closed and our minds shut to facts and thoughts.

[Rako3]

What goes around comes around. Trump deserves to be lied to, just as he did his entire "presidency". If Pfizer and BioNTech deliberately withheld the good news until after the election, I applaud them. Hope we are on the path getting rid of both T and covid. FKK 2021, we are ready!

I think withholding news like that until after the election is fine. They operated independently of Trump's efforts, why have their success used by him as a boasting point? Everything good that happens is Trump's doing, everything bad that happens is blamed on somebody else. That's how his mind works. Staying out of the election buzz was good for everyone.

[Sirioja]

Mid-March to early June 'everyone' stayed home in Sweden and very little happened outside of the home. Then school holidays happened and gradually things opened up. Now it's as if 90% don't care about the virus anymore.

Let's see if the 2nd wave will change minds.

There are no concerts, sports is as restricted as elsewhere etc. Except that barely anyone is wearing masks (and it's also recommended against) or that lockdown just won't happen I don't see a major difference with other countries.

Sweden also almost closed universities.

[Turgid]

.......... Sheeples, including many governments around the world, need to acknowledge that lockdowns and masking up really doesn't help overall................

Any time I hear or read this I ask myself the question ¨How did China get the pandemic under control?

[Ararat]

I'm not on the "Sweden was a disaster" camp but it is misleading to use Sweden as the crux of a laissez faire / que serra serra approach to covid management. It is not as if Sweden ignored the threat completely. It was not as if while every other nation was locked down, Swedes were out drinking in the streets. From my understanding, secondary schools were shut down, crowd sizes were limited, private business practiced work from home when possible, etc.

The populace themselves seem more compliant to recommendations as seen by the drastic changes in travel habits.

Mid-March to early June 'everyone' stayed home in Sweden and very little happened outside of the home. Then school holidays happened and gradually things opened up. Now it's as if 90% don't care about the virus anymore.

Let's see if the 2nd wave will change minds.

There are no concerts, sports is as restricted as elsewhere etc. Except that barely anyone is wearing masks (and it's also recommended against) or that lockdown just won't happen I don't see a major difference with other countries.

[McAdonis]

I'm not on the "Sweden was a disaster" camp but it is misleading to use Sweden as the crux of a laissez faire / que serra serra approach to covid management. It is not as if Sweden ignored the threat completely. It was not as if while every other nation was locked down, Swedes were out drinking in the streets. From my understanding, secondary schools were shut down, crowd sizes were limited, private business practiced work from home when possible, etc.

The populace themselves seem more compliant to recommendations as seen by the drastic changes in travel habits.

The fact that the rest of Europe treated Sweden like a pariah worked in Sweden's favor. Was there much inbound / outbound travel in Sweden this summer? Many infection in the UK can be traced to a strain of CV19 that emerged in Spain, that holiday travellers brought back to their home countries: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...0-per-cent-uk/.

Finland seems to be the only country on the continent to have avoided a second wave. They seem to have the same "socially isolated culture" of Sweden. Almost a quarter of Finns believed the lockdown actually improved their lives.

Not only have Finns followed the rules, but European Parliament research last week found that 23 percent of respondents in the country said that lockdown had actually improved their lives, making Finland the most positive country in Europe towards the coronavirus restrictions.

One reason is likely to be the relative ease of switching to distance working in the highly digitised society.

"The economy is structured so that it's not necessary for a large proportion of the Finnish workforce to be in the workplace," Nelli Hankonen, associate professor of social psychology at Helsinki University, told AFP.
But the national character of the Finns, often characterised as reserved and outdoors-loving, may also have played a part.

"In Finnish culture we are not that highly sociable," Hankonen said.

"We like to be on our own and be a bit isolated."

Nonetheless, the solitude of lockdown has exacerbated mental health issues which already affect one in five people in Finland, the highest rate in the OECD.

"Social support might not be easily available, it's the other side of the coin of how we were able to adapt to the lockdown," Hankonen said.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-11-finland-europe-quiet-success-covid-.html.

[Pistons]

What if.

- nanorobots are included in the vaccine.

- the nanorobots need 5 G in order to hook up to the web.

- NSA or others will be able to spy through the nanorobots.

- the vaccine works perfectly, but most of the world will never get to see it.

- covid-2021 will be worse, but the vaccine will work against that one too.

Welcome to the world of crazy theories.

What if?

[Sirioja]

Portugal is now under strong crisis, not better than others. NL preferred to confine now, when Stockholm had so many deaths. What happened in US? If they really found efficient vaccine, when health ministery gave 2 billions USD, how could Pfizer fuck Trump like this, only telling after Biden election. Lets see if this try will be confirmed by Europe.

[Mursenary]

Have you ever considered not to cherry-pick so much? Spain and Portugal are neighbors and despite softer measures in Portugal they fared much better than Spain. You only display how little you know and understand of what you're talking about. Anyways, it only goes to show that lockdowns are unnecessary, you can get better results without them. The expected carnage didn't occur.

A little nuance would be helpful in these discussions. Perhaps being purposeful in the usage of terms like lock down, quarantine, etc.

I'm not on the "Sweden was a disaster" camp but it is misleading to use Sweden as the crux of a laissez faire / que serra serra approach to covid management. It is not as if Sweden ignored the threat completely. It was not as if while every other nation was locked down, Swedes were out drinking in the streets. From my understanding, secondary schools were shut down, crowd sizes were limited, private business practiced work from home when possible, etc.

The populace themselves seem more compliant to recommendations as seen by the drastic changes in travel habits.

Overall, travel from the Stockholm region had decreased by 8090%, and the number of citizens of Stockholm travelling to popular holiday destinations like Gotland and the ski resorts in re had fallen with more than 90%. Travel between other regions in Sweden had fallen as well. Ferry-line operator Destination Gotland, who previously had called on their customers to rethink their planned trips for Easter, reported that 85% of all bookings had been rescheduled

The same goes for Portugal. They also implemented containment measures initially but have softened them according to epidemic severity. Luckily they were spared the initial wave like Italy and Spain but quickly implemented containment and mitigation efforts such as mitigating movement between municipalities, closure of businesses, school closures, etc. Even with their geographic isolation, recent surges have forced them to reinstate restrictions such as curfews and crowd size limitations.

These Sweden model versus the world discussions are too often reduced to lockdown versus zero restriction arguments with no one actually considering the reality of the situation on the ground but rather hypothetical and philosophical "my team versus your team" arguments.

[ExpatLover]

Have you ever considered not to cherry-pick so much? Spain and Portugal are neighbors and despite softer measures in Portugal they fared much better than Spain. You only display how little you know and understand of what you're talking about. Anyways, it only goes to show that lockdowns are unnecessary, you can get better results without them. The expected carnage didn't occur.

I fully agree with you lockdowns are not necessary as long you have a homogenous population, sharing the same interest and targets, respecting the laws, taking care of the others, what I can tell you this is not the case in France, Italy, Belgium, England, the others I don t know because I don t have enough friends able to give me real field feedback.