Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[Pessimist]

And conservative minded people aren't manipulated by social medias?

You are quite right, Paulie. My observation is that the most manipulated of all the people are the ones who continuously bemoan that others are manipulated?

If one has his own, sensible brain that person can read an opinion, either agree / disagree, reply with a concurrence / disagreement / or ignore it altogether. But some pompous people hold forth that anyone who disagrees with them on any topic is necessarily manipulated. Usually, they also tend to be the ones making the most irrational arguments completely detached from reality.

[Pessimist]

It's ironic getting lectured here by Shoo Bree, a Swede.

Jeez, he is a Swede? Fuck!

Wtf is he yapping about Biden and Trump? Next time he talks about US politics, I will show him my middle finger LOL.

[ExpatLover]

And conservative minded people aren't manipulated by social medias?

Yes of course but I lived 20 years in many countries including US, China, India, Brazil, so maybe I have a little bit of understanding of really maters, for example what is happening today in France, Spain, Italy, Germany, . Will end very badly and it has already started, now if you consider that safety is not a priority, if you consider that a woman can't wear a short dress in a public bus after 10 PM, like in many big cities in Europe. It is your choice but not my choice.

[Paulie97]

I am cheering for Sweden. I would love to see updated studies that show that 80 percent of the Stockholm population had already contracted the virus and 99 percent had already recovered.

With all the fake news and pseudo-science floating around cyberspace you probably could find something to that effect with minimal effort. That said, cheerleading isn't going to help. Trump proves that beyond all doubt. Following the guidelines encouraged by virtually every contagious disease specialist on the planet is what is going to help.

https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

[Pessimist]

I wrote this in the Artemis thread, but it really belongs to this thread. So here you go again, with slight modifications:

More and more I seriously think that unless countries follow the successful Swedish experiment (which is kinda a like a successful medical lab experiment, in a smaller size of population compared to most countries), these lockdowns are going to be part of life. Choices are very simple, (1) learn to live with the virus and strengthen your immunity by antibody and T-cells like Sweden did (sadly losing a lot of weak people as part of that, but quickly achieving a low death rate of less than 0.3 deaths per million population which is steady for 3 months now, whereas death rates are creeping up in all countries who had imposed some sort of lockdowns since the beginning of this virus), or (2) have repeated lockdowns like this. The longer we delay to implement (1), more deaths and economic issues will pile up and we will have total deaths more than compared to the proverbial "biting the bullet" in the first time. Let's hope vaccines and treatments will actually work, but who knows when and to what extent (reminds me of the state of vaccines and treatments for AIDS, SERS, MERS etc. Viruses)? Vaccines are a mild variation of (1) anyway, right?.

Haha there is a name to the "Some people in this forum may bring up my posts back in Jan-Feb 2020" and that is me. And back then you specifically advocated people w / Asian look should be banned from FKKs. I then asked if that applied to Asians who were already in Germany for a few weeks, for a few months, even years. Furthermore was it not the logical conclusion then to round up all Asians who were living in DE at that time (and in fact all western nations) and deport them to their fatherlands? You never answered that specific question, as you always dodge the direct question for obvious reasons. But if an Asian guy should be stopped at the FKK door, he is equally dangerous for the rest of the society and should be banned.

I repeatedly said "countries have full freedom to enforce visa / entry policies as they please but once a guy is allowed inside the country it is evil to enforce a differentiated policy". You can keep doing your strawman arguments Gino, but the simple reality is that you cannot have it both ways. If a guy is dangerous to the girls and guys inside a club, he is just as dangerous outside the club. Why don't you have boldness to just proclaim loudly that you wanted all Asians from Western nations to be deported in Jan / Feb, that was your desire at that time? This site allows freedom of expression god bless them, you should state what is on your mind clearly. Why by PC?

[Paulie97]

Not only in the US, usually the big cities have more diversity and migration, those people are extremely manipulated by the social medias, don't be racist, be vegan, use a electric car, LGBT,.

And conservative minded people aren't manipulated by social medias?

[Pessimist]

More and more I seriously think that unless countries follow the successful Swedish experiment, these lockdowns are going to be part of life. Choices are very simple, (1) learn to live with the virus and strengthen your immunity by antibody and T-cell like Sweden did (sadly losing weak people as part of that), or (2) have repeatedly lockdowns like this. The longer we wait to implement (1), more deaths and economic issues will pile up. Let's hope vaccines and treatments actually will work, but who knows when and to what extent? Vaccines are a mild variation of (1) anyway, right?

You can wish for anything but your wish will not come true in W EU. It might in the US if Trump wins. He is already advocating for a severe reduction of testing and if he does win, testing will be curtailed, true case #s will be unknown, and death tolls, hospitalizations, other health issues will be whatever they will be, until we achieve this so called herd immunity (on its own, with the help of a vaccine, whatever, whenever).

I think US private sector will protect their workers, at least the high paying white collar jobs will be. They will WFH. There is not even any discussion in my company about when workers will be asked to come back to office. If anyone feels uncomfortable and wants to wfh indefinitely, there is no question that request will be granted. Blue collar, manufacturing, essential and other workers can fend for themselves.

I don't know any other Western nation which will follow that path though. Asians like JP / KR / TW have clammed up, and will keep it close. Developing nations such as Brazil, India are already like Sweden and in any case it is almost impossible to truly lock down such countries. I would not at all be surprised if herd immunity will be achieved earlier in those nations (they also tend to be young).

[Pessimist]

Oh, and you must be Fredo Cuomo trying to campaign for Biden.

How could anyone vote for Biden or the Democratic Party when they so clearly refuse to take any responsibility for their failures?

To paraphrase Biden; "if you don't vote for Trump you're not White".

Actually I have voted GOP 80% of my life but based on the "intelligence" you displayed here, you must fit in the dominant demographic that votes for Trump.

[Paulie97]

Ah yes, you basically listed states that were / are the main ports of entry for Europeans back in February and March and before social mitigation and appropriate standards of care were developed. What has happened since the summer as these republican states reopened? Oh yes, states you mentioned controlled the spread with less cases, deaths, and hospitalizations per capita than just about every red southern state (where I happen to live and work). Believe me, the only thing that saved my region despite the stupidity here is the fact that the international community has little to no desire to come here. Meanwhile Texas, Florida, Georgia, Arizona, Dakotas, etc have been leading the covid charge for the past 5 months. You have been listening to one too many autocratic orange monkey.

It's ironic getting lectured here by Shoo Bree, a Swede whose country sacrificed the lives of 5000+ of it's citizens, 11 times the per capita death rate as it's neighbor Norway, in a fool's errand chasing herd immunity. And yes, the Fox News pundits want to talk about NYC while they completely ignore the exemplary job New Yorkers did breaking the curve, and did so using the very public health measures that Fox and the Trump cult claim do not work.

And the politicizing of course has been done by the wannabe dictator Trump, his corrupt inner circle and his followers as they've downplayed the Covid situation in an attempt to stay in power. The result has been the lose of untold 1000's of lives.

Americans go vote. This is not one to sit out.

[Mongerer88]

Just genuinely curious.

If everything in and about the USA Is as bad as you continuously post, and everywhere else (especially Germany) is so great, then why don't you immigrate?

I shall check and report back on and in 1000 = kaput!

It is silly to talk about the two corrupt franchises, labelled democrat and republican. They are totally bipartisan on money, power, payoffs and ensuring there is no effective capital gains tax, and expert at getting people to confuse possibility with probability. The key thing is people voting against immediate, likely, economic self interest rather than aspiration. Same reason people go to casinos despite impossible odds. Or people go nuts over sports teams that have no geographic connection and are just commercialized entertainment. This is done by throwing lots of idiotic red-herring moral "issues" about the population seizes upon. Moral issues are best, no clear answers, high emotion, keeps the population divided and fighting against each other rather than thinking about immediate and practical economic and housing security.

What we can say is that the biggest states in population, CA and NY have more brand loyalty to the democrat label (that like the other lot serves up the same distractions). We can also say the the UK and USA is a disgrace in per capita sickness and death by COVID compared to Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Thailand, Australia and Japan. That seems to be a function of greed over monetizing health that both entertainment franchises support. The reasons are more complex than binary X versus Y. Bleating franchise labels misses the point; as a country, we phucked up, and phucked it badly.

[Gino02]

I wrote this in the Artemis thread, but it really belongs to this thread. So here you go again, with slight modifications:

More and more I seriously think that unless countries follow the successful Swedish experiment (which is kinda a like a successful medical lab experiment, in a smaller size of population compared to most countries), these lockdowns are going to be part of life. Choices are very simple, (1) learn to live with the virus and strengthen your immunity by antibody and T-cells like Sweden did (sadly losing a lot of weak people as part of that, but quickly achieving a low death rate of less than 0.3 deaths per million population which is steady for 3 months now, whereas death rates are creeping up in all countries who had imposed some sort of lockdowns since the beginning of this virus), or (2) have repeated lockdowns like this. The longer we delay to implement (1), more deaths and economic issues will pile up and we will have total deaths more than compared to the proverbial "biting the bullet" in the first time. Let's hope vaccines and treatments will actually work, but who knows when and to what extent (reminds me of the state of vaccines and treatments for AIDS, SERS, MERS etc. Viruses)? Vaccines are a mild variation of (1) anyway, right?

Some people in this forum may bring up my posts back in Jan-Feb 2020 when I suggested to block all Asians, mainly people from China, into other countries (and since this is after all an FKK forum, block them from FKKs). They need to understand that if we had blocked Asians back then (not just in FKKs but everywhere outside Asia), we probably could have limit spread of the virus locally in Asia, as opposed to having it as a global pandemic. Since we (countries) didn't do it in time, now the virus has spread every corner of the world, we lost that initial opportunity of isolating it locally. Now we are at a different phase where we need to counter the virus head-on, hiding in our basements will only delay the inevitable but will damage more in the longer run (think this way: In the Swedish way, I may have lost my beloved grandpa, but at least all his kids and grandkids would have had the natural immunity built by now and they would survive, but since we did the lockdowns which reduced the natural immunity (instead of increasing it) of the whole family, now more members of the family are in risk category and we may lose more of them including my beloved grandpa). If (I seriously hope not) there is another new deadly pathogen comes from another country, I still strongly believe that we should ASAP first try to isolate the source country before it gets spread everywhere; and establishments (airlines, clubs, bars, restaurants etc etc) shouldn't wait for the slow-moving governments to act quickly in blocking people from that country, albeit hopefully governments will also act before it is too late. Some people think this approach is racist, I think it is a prudent approach to isolate the people from the source country (any country, be in Germany, France, USA, China whichever) from rest of the world.

I look forward for a civil discussion on this "moving forward" topic, without any name-calling or angry or political comments please. Interestingly, one very nice Asian guy I met last weekend in a party said about the lockdowns: "Dude, it's called natural selection. I am not staying in scared shit waiting to die."

[ShooBree]

Wow. Now Trump campaign managers are seeking votes on ISG. He must be in desperate trouble, LOL.

The states you mentioned are all urbanized, cosmopolitan states with densely packed cities on the coast which saw runaway infections at a time when no controls were in place, no protocols were in place, PPE and other supplies were in shortage, and physicians were still trying to figure out how to treat the virus, and of course there were no medications like Remdesivir or dexaM or other things not to mention the MAB cocktails which Trump ingested (Lysol was however available, at least for the doses needed for drinking if not cleaning).

I find it curious that Trump takes credit for good things that happen at the country level, even international level (such as the BionTech and Oxford vaccines in development) but delegates blame to states and lower levels for things gone awry. One would think the POTUS is responsible for an important thing like national public health (and national economy which is in deep shit at the moment).

Oh, and you must be Fredo Cuomo trying to campaign for Biden.

How could anyone vote for Biden or the Democratic Party when they so clearly refuse to take any responsibility for their failures?

To paraphrase Biden; "if you don't vote for Trump you're not White".

[McAdonis]

More and more I seriously think that unless countries follow the successful Swedish experiment, these lockdowns are going to be part of life. Choices are very simple, (1) learn to live with the virus and strengthen your immunity by antibody and T-cell like Sweden did (sadly losing weak people as part of that), or (2) have repeatedly lockdowns like this. The longer we wait to implement (1), more deaths and economic issues will pile up. Let's hope vaccines and treatments actually will work, but who knows when and to what extent? Vaccines are a mild variation of (1) anyway, right?

It is too early to declare the Swedish experiment a success or failure. Even Sweden has repeatedly said that this is a marathon and not a sprint. Sweden took a "light approach" with their restrictions. But has that resulted in the virus being exposed to a majority of its 10 million citizens? As of mid-June:

Around 14 percent of people in the Stockholm region, or around one in seven, had antibodies for Covid-19 according to samples provided by private healthcare provider Werlabs.

The company analyzed 50,000 samples between May and mid-June. The samples belong to private individuals and companies who have offered tests to their staff a service Werlabs provides in certain (mostly urban) regions for the price of 750 kronor for private individuals.

https://www.thelocal.se/20200618/one-in-seven-stockholmers-had-coronavirus-antibody-in-private-tests

For reference, London over the same time period was at 13 percent: https://www.imperial.nhs.uk/about-us...lishes-results.

In general, restrictions result in less circulation and exposure of the virus. But the data seems to show that less restrictions did not result in increased spread of the virus in Stockholm. One possible explanation: Swedish voluntarily complied with the governments "recommendations" and have done a better job at socially distancing themselves and reducing spread. We can see this compliance versus coercion argument with parenting. For example, with one child you might be able to get away with a gentle recommendation, "Son, it would be great if you didn't play video games and studied". With another child, you wouldn't be able to use such a "light approach". You would literally need to lock them in a room and take away their video game console (and even that is no guarantee that they would study).

I am cheering for Sweden. I would love to see updated studies that show that 80 percent of the Stockholm population had already contracted the virus and 99 percent had already recovered. That would be good news for the world. Hasn't happened yet. Scientists have already said that re-infection is extremely rare (at least being re-infected within a six month timeframe). So if most people in Sweden had contracted the virus in the spring, then Sweden's new infections should not be surging at this moment. Looking at the data, the surge of new infections in Sweden cannot be attributed to increased testing. We are now in week 44 of 2020. Week 36 was the week Sweden vindicated their lockdown strategy and proved the world wrong, conducting 126188 tests with a positivity rating of 1 percent. Week 43, Sweden conducted 164742 tests, with positivity rating over 5 percent. If number of tests are increased, then you would want the positivity rating to go down or at least remain constant. https://opendata.ecdc.europa.eu/covid19/testing/xml/.

BTW, Weeks 35-38, when Sweden's positivity rate was in the 1-2 percent range, coincides with the Swedish summer tradition of going to the family summer home, which 50 percent of the population has access to. So a benefit of being the third largest country in the EU by land mass, and having only a population of 10 million is that you can socially distance with your family: https://sweden.se/culture-traditions...a-love-affair/.

[Mr Ho]

I don't believe that black or muslim or. Have more criminal activities than the other, it is link with the level of poverty and there unfortunately in the poor levels of the society, black, muslim. Are over represented for various reasons, single mothers, number of children in the family (having many children is a gift from god and a gift to god), this is also true for the Romanian girls, very few are coming from wealthy families, despite what some of you believe very few are graduate. Or even are students. I used to walk a lot around the FKK clubs and I can tell you that many times I saw guys after dropping the girls to the clubs, having a drink in a bar or MD and chatting with other girls on a Ipad while her GF was getting fucked for money in the FKK. Maybe this is a modern form of love.

Well France just declared religious warfare on all Muslim people and the war began in church and street of France it seems! Crazy thing is going on in that nation France, crazy!

[Mr Ho]

I shall check and report back on and in 1000 = kaput!

It is silly to talk about the two corrupt franchises, labelled democrat and republican. They are totally bipartisan on money, power, payoffs and ensuring there is no effective capital gains tax, and expert at getting people to confuse possibility with probability. The key thing is people voting against immediate, likely, economic self interest rather than aspiration. Same reason people go to casinos despite impossible odds. Or people go nuts over sports teams that have no geographic connection and are just commercialized entertainment. This is done by throwing lots of idiotic red-herring moral "issues" about the population seizes upon. Moral issues are best, no clear answers, high emotion, keeps the population divided and fighting against each other rather than thinking about immediate and practical economic and housing security.

What we can say is that the biggest states in population, CA and NY have more brand loyalty to the democrat label (that like the other lot serves up the same distractions). We can also say the the UK and USA is a disgrace in per capita sickness and death by COVID compared to Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Thailand, Australia and Japan. That seems to be a function of greed over monetizing health that both entertainment franchises support. The reasons are more complex than binary X versus Y. Bleating franchise labels misses the point; as a country, we phucked up, and phucked it badly.

Why can't Europeans stay home instead of protesting on the street with bunch of people, wear mask and stop or limit socializing? LOL Are they that difficult?