Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[Escape Artist]

Lots of mental gymnastics to justify getting priced gouged. Somehow this person justifies middle aged and old men in Germany getting taken to the cleaners by uneducated 20 year olds girls by referencing healthcare costs in the United States or the average salary of a nerd in Silicon Valley thousands of miles away.

A little more of a relevant metric is the average income trends in Germany since, well, we're looking at a German FKK where 90% of the customers are German. Average wage in Germany increased 16% from 2002 to 2021. Same for neighboring France. Even less in neighboring Netherlands.

https://stats.oecd.org/viewhtml.aspx...N_WAGE&lang=en

Fact is that the wage of the average FKK visitor has been significantly outpaced by the cost of a basket-of-goods in the region, thus the average purchasing power is significantly less. But here comes along an argument that cites completely irrelevant anecdotes. It's a clear example of faulty reasoning due to only considering personal situations and perspectives rather than having the ability to step back and consider the realities from another human's perspective. In this case, other humans being the over 90% of the relevant demographic.

I did not say inflation was consistently 2% IN Germany. Read again. That was a hypothetical example that an annual CPI of 2% leads to 50% hike over 20 years. And most European countries did have 2% or more inflation for multiple years till 2013/14. It is only since the Greece / Euro crisis that their CPi collapsed, but even among them Germany stands out. US, UK, Spain etc did average 2% ish over a long time and as I said Romania did too, and that is where many girls come from. On the demand side, mongers come from all over the world. Over the decade+ I attended the clubs, my club costs became cheaper relative to the rise in my own economic situation, as until 2019 prices were more or less unch but my comp became better and I think that's true for many mongers as well.

And comparing own wage hikes to girls is not sensible. More than 2 decades ago as a new EE grad, I made 80 K. Now, so many freshly minted EECS grads are starting nearer to 150 K in the Valley. But my current comp is several times what I made as a new grad due to promotions, raises and so on. But a WG never gets a promotion or raise, does she? In fact with age she is in less demand..

[Adindas]

But fact in Germany or even in more rich than in US, Zurich, is falling business in clubs, at Sharks, Globe. Why? Because many locals can t pay anymore increased rates. At Globe, also because falling quality with many Bundesliga 2 looks.

Well,I do not think, this is not true that DE is richer than the US.
From Both Average Income per capita and GDP / capita tell a different story. DE however has a better welfare, social security system.

Income per capita:
https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php

7 United States 70,930 $ 5,911 $.

18 Germany 51,660 $ 4,305 $.

GDP / capita:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...ame_desc=false

United States 2021 70,248. 6.

Germany 2021 51,203. 6.

Also keep in mind tax in DE is higher than the US. So from punting POV the German blokes have less money due to less disposable income and get hammered again by the tax. Also keep in mind the prostitution is illegal in the US which is contributing to the higher cost of mongering in the US which are already high among other nations.
I have not researched it well but for the mongers from the US, is it not better now to punt in Argentina, Columbia, Brazil, Mexico for instance rather than travelling furtherr away to Germany, spending accommodation, transportation and time only to find the price is not that significantly different with the US.

[Adindas]

This is woefully incorrect especially this bit "Even 2% inflation over a decade comes to 22% compounded and almost 50% over 20 years. And inflation was higher in Romania where most of these girls come from". You are assuming inflation all of the way through no deflation. Look at that graphics.

Lotk back in the 1960, how much has increased since 1960. Germany is not south America or Africa.

And another thing I would like to add here is that, although mongers, FKKs, Brothels, might not be included in the basket in the calculation of an inflation for a country, but many things in mongers, FKKs, Brothels, are embedded in the economy of a nation. Think about the unemployment rate how many people are working inn FKK? Let alone if referred to Germany in which prostitution is legal and any money earned is taxable. The FKK seasonal visitors have impact on tourism, hospitality industry.

Certainly, the main impact of inflation on mongering is the income of the seasonal FKKs visitors which in turn will also impact on FKKs as the visitors is one of the main stakeholder in this business. The income of seasonal visitor is just increasing by less than 10% while the cost if mongering has increased by more than 100%+ if the other costs such as travelling, Accommodation, transportation, food are included. This will impact on their discretionary spending on mongering whihc in turn will impact on FKK and the girls. Keep in mind for many people mongering is not considered as a primary needs such as food, shelter, health and security etc.

FKKs business in Germany is not an isolated economy, so by the end of the day it will comply with the law of supply and demand. We have seen reasonable numbers of report that the girls are complaining about lack of customers, Mongers decide to do less rooms as they used to be and some even have decided to stop visiting FKKs.

[Sirioja]

Yes, that was to be expected. It would have been a surprise if there was no demand response to a large sudden change in pricing. It will take a while to settle into a new equilibrium. In the meanwhile we can expect to see all types of reactions. Demand flow to lower prices clubs, fewer number of gents at the clubs or fewer rooms per gent, girls cheating on their cartel and giving discrete discounts, perhaps more girls over time and so on.

Whatever it is, markets will settle this issue. I don't think it is fully settled yet but I could be wrong on that too.

At Sharks, some girls lowered their rate when they asked 150/30 or 200/250/60 , but now they have to hunt for 100/30 or 150/60 , a German coming to ask me. At Oase, I was quite surprised to get without needing to play grocer 100/30 with french kissing when not always at Sharks, even 80/30 with new cute small Turkish. On my visits on March saturdays, Sharks business was slow in afternoon until 7 pm. At Oase, no crowd except when party. On the other hand, when she is available for 65/30 , I know one who is busy with long time bookings. Just matter of arithmetics but girls and pimps didn t learn at school. Higher rate, falling business for most girls. Only good point is higher rate attract few pretty girls when 150/200/60 is same than escorting in Germany and I find prettier girls in Germany than at Globe for 300/60 . I saw at Freubad on Sunday evening after great day in Verbier Monts Gelé and Fort, interesting looks, when HH 199/60 with foods and drinks.

[Pessimist]

This is woefully incorrect especially this bit "Even 2% inflation over a decade comes to 22% compounded and almost 50% over 20 years. And inflation was higher in Romania where most of these girls come from". You are assuming inflation all of the way through no deflation. Look at that graphics.

Lotka at back the in1960, how much has increased since 196 o. Germany is not south America or Africa.

I did not say inflation was consistently 2% IN Germany. Read again. That was a hypothetical example that an annual CPI of 2% leads to 50% hike over 20 years. And most European countries did have 2% or more inflation for multiple years till 2013/14. It is only since the Greece / Euro crisis that their CPi collapsed, but even among them Germany stands out. US, UK, Spain etc did average 2% ish over a long time and as I said Romania did too, and that is where many girls come from. On the demand side, mongers come from all over the world. Over the decade+ I attended the clubs, my club costs became cheaper relative to the rise in my own economic situation, as until 2019 prices were more or less unch but my comp became better and I think that's true for many mongers as well.

And comparing own wage hikes to girls is not sensible. More than 2 decades ago as a new EE grad, I made 80 K. Now, so many freshly minted EECS grads are starting nearer to 150 K in the Valley. But my current comp is several times what I made as a new grad due to promotions, raises and so on. But a WG never gets a promotion or raise, does she? In fact with age she is in less demand.

But I read here again and again "last year my salary didn't go up x percent but the girls are charging so much more suddenly" - first, their situation is unique, and they didn't get a raise for decades. I doubt even in Germany, most workers are making the same as what they made 20 years ago.

Apart from the nitpick about the German deflation in the 2013-20 period, what else do you have since you said "woefully incorrect" about my entire comment?

In 20 years in the US, university education and Healthcare costs went up way more than 100%, electronics products are down 50% or worse, and various other goods and services are in between. Some up and some down, by varying amounts. Each has its own supply demand dynamic. Very few goods exactly track the CPI curve. My central point is that bringing up CPI in the context of paid sex in Germany that was at flat prices for 20 years is a useless comparison. It only serves to make self miserable. Apparently the locals decided to pay up, and tourists just have to follow what they do.

[Adindas]

This argument that "CPI hasn't spiked up 100%, so why should the room price go up this much" has its puts and takes. The sudden one time increase is jarring for many. But is it 100%? For one hour, price went up by 50%. For a two hour session, if you can negotiate well, the % hike can be even less. And for a dude who takes a lot of extras, the hike is again not necessarily 100% but much less. The largest hike is in the basic 30 min unit. For a sex tourist who takes 2 to 4 sessions daily, a mix of 30 M and hour long and a few stretching more than one hour and with a couple of extras thrown in, over 3 to 6 days the total amount you pay will not 100% higher, probably not even 50% higher. Do your own math and compare it to what you paid in the past.

American mongers have an extra dose of luck due to dollar appreciation. In 2008, Euro spiked to nearly 1. 6 USd. An hour would have been 160 USD in those days. Now, it is approximately the same amount. For a brief time in 2022, euro was even below parity..

This is woefully incorrect especially this bit "Even 2% inflation over a decade comes to 22% compounded and almost 50% over 20 years. And inflation was higher in Romania where most of these girls come from". You are assuming inflation all of the way through no deflation. Look at that graphics.

Lotka at back the in1960, how much has increased since 196 o. Germany is not south America or Africa.

[Pessimist]

But fact in Germany or even in more rich than in US, Zurich, is falling business in clubs, at Sharks, Globe. Why? Because many locals can t pay anymore increased rates. At Globe, also because falling quality with many Bundesliga 2 looks.

Yes, that was to be expected. It would have been a surprise if there was no demand response to a large sudden change in pricing. It will take a while to settle into a new equilibrium. In the meanwhile we can expect to see all types of reactions. Demand flow to lower prices clubs, fewer number of gents at the clubs or fewer rooms per gent, girls cheating on their cartel and giving discrete discounts, perhaps more girls over time and so on.

Whatever it is, markets will settle this issue. I don't think it is fully settled yet but I could be wrong on that too.

[Sirioja]

This argument that "CPI hasn't spiked up 100%, so why should the room price go up this much" has its puts and takes. The sudden one time increase is jarring for many. But is it 100%? For one hour, price went up by 50%. For a two hour session, if you can negotiate well, the % hike can be even less. And for a dude who takes a lot of extras, the hike is again not necessarily 100% but much less. The largest hike is in the basic 30 min unit. For a sex tourist who takes 2 to 4 sessions daily, a mix of 30 M and hour long and a few stretching more than one hour and with a couple of extras thrown in, over 3 to 6 days the total amount you pay will not 100% higher, probably not even 50% higher. Do your own math and compare it to what you paid in the past.

American mongers have an extra dose of luck due to dollar appreciation. In 2008, Euro spiked to nearly 1. 6 USd. An hour would have been 160 USD in those days. Now, it is approximately the same amount. For a brief time in 2022, euro was even below parity.

Then too, the 50 E price has been in place for a long time. Certainly overall inflation was not zero and services inflation was not zero. Even 2% inflation over a decade comes to 22% compounded and almost 50% over 20 years. And inflation was higher in Romania where most of these girls come from.

In the last year, inflation was double digits in many EU countries and even mid teens in some E EU countries. Including the last 15 months, it is not a challenge to see 50% price hike over a decade for many goods and services. The difference is that they went up gradually over time and more sharply in the last 15 months. WGs got their pay rise all at once.

It is silly to debate the price of a specific good or service in relation to inflation. Inflation is averaged over a basket. For any specific product and service, the market makes the prices, and this "why so much more than inflation" argument doesn't get anywhere. Due to a combination of factors, starting with the helping hand provided by local law changes in 2017, more recently the pandemic, a shortage of girls or change in their attitude or what have you, the price dynamic shifted in their favor. It is what it is.

I am of the view that tourists shouldn't screw up the pricing for locals. But if the locals are paying what they are paying, these arguments are moot.

But fact in Germany or even in more rich than in US, Zurich, is falling business in clubs, at Sharks, Globe. Why? Because many locals can t pay anymore increased rates. At Globe, also because falling quality with many Bundesliga 2 looks.

[Pessimist]

This argument that "CPI hasn't spiked up 100%, so why should the room price go up this much" has its puts and takes. The sudden one time increase is jarring for many. But is it 100%? For one hour, price went up by 50%. For a two hour session, if you can negotiate well, the % hike can be even less. And for a dude who takes a lot of extras, the hike is again not necessarily 100% but much less. The largest hike is in the basic 30 min unit. For a sex tourist who takes 2 to 4 sessions daily, a mix of 30 M and hour long and a few stretching more than one hour and with a couple of extras thrown in, over 3 to 6 days the total amount you pay will not 100% higher, probably not even 50% higher. Do your own math and compare it to what you paid in the past.

American mongers have an extra dose of luck due to dollar appreciation. In 2008, Euro spiked to nearly 1. 6 USd. An hour would have been 160 USD in those days. Now, it is approximately the same amount. For a brief time in 2022, euro was even below parity.

Then too, the 50 E price has been in place for a long time. Certainly overall inflation was not zero and services inflation was not zero. Even 2% inflation over a decade comes to 22% compounded and almost 50% over 20 years. And inflation was higher in Romania where most of these girls come from.

In the last year, inflation was double digits in many EU countries and even mid teens in some E EU countries. Including the last 15 months, it is not a challenge to see 50% price hike over a decade for many goods and services. The difference is that they went up gradually over time and more sharply in the last 15 months. WGs got their pay rise all at once.

It is silly to debate the price of a specific good or service in relation to inflation. Inflation is averaged over a basket. For any specific product and service, the market makes the prices, and this "why so much more than inflation" argument doesn't get anywhere. Due to a combination of factors, starting with the helping hand provided by local law changes in 2017, more recently the pandemic, a shortage of girls or change in their attitude or what have you, the price dynamic shifted in their favor. It is what it is.

I am of the view that tourists shouldn't screw up the pricing for locals. But if the locals are paying what they are paying, these arguments are moot.

[Not Savvy]

FKK is not Swingers club, this is business. The girls are looking for money, the client are looking for the value for their money.

Keep in mind if a clients keep occupying himself with particular girl, the girls will not get business as other customer will not be approaching them. At least during the time spent chatting, giggling caressing with the girls, with particular customers. The exception of those customers pay for the girls time like in the night clubs.

In my personal opinion, if you are not interested better not to spend too much time with the girls. It is not good for everyone for everyone , the girls, the potential clients, the FKK business owner and might be you as well. There are already quite a few posting regarding the best way to avoid this sort of thing with a more gentle manner, less offensive and avoid being rude.

Totally agree. As I have already written here, I never take the time of girls unnecessarily. I politely refuse the advance of the girls without taking their time with whom I do not think I will go to the bedroom. But that's always when I get the nasty reaction from the girls.

On the other hand, with the girls that interest me, I collect the necessary information and then we go to the bedroom. From time to time, the girls stay with me despite my refusal saying that she was bored. When the discussion with this girl is interesting, I promise an appointment later at a specific time. That is to say, she convinced me with her negotiating skills. Rare case.

[Gilliat]

Not all international travelers are in good financial standing. Even if they are, travelers like I, are hit with with conversion rates.

When I use the ATM, I am charged a fee, I am charged at their rate they want to give me. Some ATM's even do mark ups! Its labeled when I am withdrawing! I FEEL THE PINCH.

I have to pay for hotel stay, airline flight, car rental, I remember Holiday Inn in Frankfurt wanted to charge me 10 euro per day, for not being a Frankfurt resident! But she gave me a break and waive the fee.

I also understand the girl have expenses also, I don't mind paying more, the problem is that its not reasonable. The attitude of the woman is horrible, even when I kindly politely to say no, they tell me to go home. Just because I say no doesn't mean I don't want you, guys like me like to take my time, and also I don't find you attractive.

Hi. I agree with everything you said. If you're not a local, it doesn't make much sense to go to FKK specifically. First of all the prices. If we want to withdraw cash from ATMs, there is definitely a different expense. In clubs, especially sharks, the approach of girls to boys can sometimes be disturbing. Some are hasty. Not only in the main bar. In the room as well. But never there is possibility to know in advance.

[Adindas]

Not only their character but also the stress they currently have that approaching many girls is stressful for clients. It's sad for all of us.

To be fair, there are also some girlish approaches that are highly appreciable. As written in the part of Sharks, Lolita's approach gives customers every joy. Zayneb's approach is very elegant and calm, Emma's is very funny and friendly, Catalea's is both cool and warm with the looks of a femme fatale.

FKK is not Swingers club, this is business. The girls are looking for money, the client are looking for the value for their money.

Keep in mind if a clients keep occupying himself with particular girl, the girls will not get business as other customer will not be approaching them. At least during the time spent chatting, giggling caressing with the girls, with particular customers. The exception of those customers pay for the girls time like in the night clubs.

In my personal opinion, if you are not interested better not to spend too much time with the girls. It is not good for everyone for everyone , the girls, the potential clients, the FKK business owner and might be you as well. There are already quite a few posting regarding the best way to avoid this sort of thing with a more gentle manner, less offensive and avoid being rude.

[Not Savvy]

I agree with insults that are occurring. I have always been cordial, and I still get insulted, like its the norm.

What's truly shameful, it reflects her, because customers see it, which makes her being avoided.

Not only their character but also the stress they currently have that approaching many girls is stressful for clients. It's sad for all of us.

To be fair, there are also some girlish approaches that are highly appreciable. As written in the part of Sharks, Lolita's approach gives customers every joy. Zayneb's approach is very elegant and calm, Emma's is very funny and friendly, Catalea's is both cool and warm with the looks of a femme fatale.

[BbfsOnly]

I find that the constant inflation due to the economic crisis caused by the war, has caused the atmosphere of the big club where Debora works to deteriorate so much.

This year, I hear a lot of frustrations from two sides, I. E. Customers and girls.

As Samcik wrote, some of them behave badly. This has been the observation for a long time. But room rate inflation added fuel to the fire. The price negotiation then became fierce: for the girls, a lot of discussion does not result in a room. They get nervous all the time. Clients are trying to make a profit from his investment and some of them are only looking to chat while fiddling with the girl's body while staying in the salon. They are also frustrated by surreal price inflation of over 100 percent. In short, the atmosphere is sometimes electric.

I have never been rejected by a girl for lack of respect or hygiene. I prefer not to take the time of the girls with whom I do not go to the bedroom. I always try to politely refuse their advance, even sometimes too aggressively. But I'm starting to get a few insults from a girl in her native language. It's sad, but it's become a daily occurrence. Let's continue to have mutual respect in the club and also outside the club, like here.

I agree with insults that are occurring. I have always been cordial, and I still get insulted, like its the norm.

What's truly shameful, it reflects her, because customers see it, which makes her being avoided.

[BbfsOnly]

Hi Deboraaa,

You are preaching to the choir, most posters on this forum are international travelers and financially stable. It is sickening for us to hear from you and other girls about customers who stink like an onion. I recommend that you start reporting such clients with terrible hygiene issues to the front desk.

The second issue is prices. Your formula of a "perfect" girl, perfect body, best service, and cheapest price is simply incorrect. What most men respectfully want instead, is a basic service at a fixed price without upsell. Everything else is negotiable.

Not all international travelers are in good financial standing. Even if they are, travelers like I, are hit with with conversion rates.

When I use the ATM, I am charged a fee, I am charged at their rate they want to give me. Some ATM's even do mark ups! Its labeled when I am withdrawing! I FEEL THE PINCH.

I have to pay for hotel stay, airline flight, car rental, I remember Holiday Inn in Frankfurt wanted to charge me 10 euro per day, for not being a Frankfurt resident! But she gave me a break and waive the fee.

I also understand the girl have expenses also, I don't mind paying more, the problem is that its not reasonable. The attitude of the woman is horrible, even when I kindly politely to say no, they tell me to go home. Just because I say no doesn't mean I don't want you, guys like me like to take my time, and also I don't find you attractive.