Thread: Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!
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07-14-20 04:54 #974
Posts: 1171Originally Posted by Polyamorist [View Original Post]
Laos has one of the lowest healthcare expenditures on earth, 17 COVID-19 infections, and 0 deaths.
As it turns out, money can't buy everything.
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07-14-20 04:51 #973
Posts: 1171Originally Posted by Pessimist [View Original Post]
But instead you reply with ad hominem and ask questions you could answer yourself with 30 seconds of research.
That explains more than any GDP stats ever could.
Enjoy.
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07-14-20 02:52 #972
Posts: 811From March 8:
Originally Posted by Polyamorist [View Original Post]
But keep searching.
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07-14-20 01:54 #971
Posts: 2073Originally Posted by Pessimist [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by Pessimist [View Original Post]
RE: optimism, wikipedia defines revolution as "when the population revolts against the government, typically due to perceived oppression (political, social, economic) or political incompetence". The operative word is "perceived". Look an immigrant, 45 yo Mexican farm worker, who is unable to speak English, is happy that he can make $15 K a year and provide a modest life for his family. He doesn't mind that his family of six all sleep in the same bedroom. He has no aspirations or dreams of his own, but he feels "blessed" because his children, and future generations will have more opportunities than he did. Contrast that to the white 30 yo Ohio factory worker who has seen his $45 K salary stagnate while the cost of living has increased. Then let's say I am rich, liberal White politician born into an upper-middle class family. All three of us have different life circumstances and experiences. Is it appropriate for me to say: "Fuck you Billy Joe, I am not giving you no handouts. Humberto is out there picking fruit. STFU and stop complaining, you have it easy! You should have studied hard and went to an Ivy League like I did!" I am not saying Billy Joe deserves a handout, but I owe it to him to listen to his concerns. If I do not listen, he might join an extremist militia. Humberto's salary is much lower but because he has an "optimistic" outlook on the future he is the one least likely to stir up trouble.
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07-13-20 21:19 #970
Posts: 1385Originally Posted by Pistons [View Original Post]
Economics is not an exact science, and there is more than one way to skin a cat. PPP has its uses (and pitfalls), and so do nominal, relative PPP and other measures. The wiki link I included both pros and cons. Isn't that the common complaint about economists, that if you have 4 economists in a room there are 8 opinions?
Yes, a guy making $2. 5 grand in India, which is their average per capita, will not starve to death -- which he would if he lived on that amount in USA -- because $2. 5 K in India is sufficient to at least eat enough to continue to live because a meal in India would not cost $10 it would cost at a minimum in a NYC deli. But if the dude travels to USA for a vacation with a year's income, it is still only $2. 5 K in his pocket, not whatever PPP says their per capita GDP is.
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07-13-20 17:54 #969
Posts: 6709Now of course, it has to be like this due to capitalistic production costs, borders and our multiple currency world. But the fact remains that most of the time, most of the people in this world are not tourists. Then use their own currency. And if they start using another currency more, then that other currency is starting to become their new main currency instead.
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07-13-20 17:45 #968
Posts: 6709I would tend to agree with McA on this one. PPP shows the real wealth, while nominal GDP is the results of big banks staging exchange rates. Like the BIS especially. But other rates also has an impact, oil trade has another massive impact etc etc. And most of the time, it is all about future guesses, as in futures. So casino bets made by big banks mainly based on political factors.
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07-13-20 15:50 #967
Posts: 1385Originally Posted by Turgid [View Original Post]
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07-13-20 15:46 #966
Posts: 1385Originally Posted by RickRock [View Original Post]
Just curious -- what were these entities saying 10 years ago or 20 years ago? Did they predict doom for US back then too? Do they care to explain why we are 30% to 50% richer than Eurozone countries at the moment, in the links MacAdonis provided? Using his favorite PPP, no less.
Thank you!
P.S.: I just looked up and Chomsky is still alive. He does have longevity, doesn't he? I wonder what his secret is. I had a borderline commie roommate in college who worshipped Chomsky. Haven't heard much about him of late. Perhaps I have the wrong set of friends now.
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07-13-20 15:40 #965
Posts: 1385Originally Posted by McAdonis [View Original Post]
So, my guess is that you already know all this: PPP has its plusses and minuses. I take issue with the comment: when comparing countries, PPP *should be used*; I am not aware of any should. Since you always try to put the ball in the other guy's court by asking "please provide info", I will play the same game and ask "please show where it says PPP should be used". You are a prolific user of Wiki and Google search, and have posted links extensively. The Wiki link for PPP covers the limitations of PPP and Google search will pull up many other articles. There is a vast amount of research and info on this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
For the purpose of ISG, I would give one example. You can't spend PPP dollars. For instance, China's nominal per capita is $10.2 k and PPP is $16.7 K. If a Chinese dood saved 100% of his annual income (assuming it is the same as per capita GDP) for his upcoming FKK trip, he would be able to bring $10.2 K, not $16.7 K. If he flew to Seoul to illegally smuggle cosmetics, he would have $10.2 K and not $16.7 K. I am able to spend my nominal dollars, and Evita does not accept PPP dollars (or converted into Euros) from me.
Secondly, you deliberately chose 2009 because it suits your argument. To me, that is data mining. In making comparisons like this, end points matter. If I chart the DE v US PPP from 1990, the max allowed range in the link you sent, in 1990 DE was 19.4 K, US 23.8 K, 82%; now it is 56 K to 65.2 K, 86%; so, a small "gain" percent wise, but a larger gap of 9 K vs 4 K. Over the same time, in constant 2010 US $, DE in 1990 was 32.4 K and now 47.6 K; US went from 36 K to 55.8 K; in that sense, DE was 90% of US in 1990 and now 85%.
And BTW, DE is the very best of EU. Perhaps you are a German (I also notice that you carefully guard your own nationality which is just fine, but when you make these comments about other countries, especially not positive comments, would be more honest to disclose what your angle is). But for sure, majority of Europeans slid against US.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...tions=DE-US-XC
The reason a lot of European nations. From Greece to Italy / Spain to others feel DE gives them a raw deal is because DE benefits from having a weak Euro as an export led nation, and dictates ECB policy that benefits DE and not EU zone as a whole.
Your second point on China comparison: I am not even sure where you are going with this. In the prior comment you said you were concerned US was not sleeping at the wheel being too complacent about China and I answered it. But now we are talking about average Chinese dude being happy / optimistic / yadda yadda. Why would that bother me either way? I or other Americans are not hell bent on making sure the average Chinese dude is unhappy. If they are happy with their growth from $5 K to $9 K and happy with their CCP government, so be it.
But again, being cagey and careful, you refuse to be pinned down. You have said multiple times that there is a risk of a revolution / uprising / social unrest in US. I asked "care to say when and what will it look like?" You refused any answer. Bringing up 1860's civil war. How is that relevant? If you are indeed German, should I say there is a risk of National Socialists coming back to power and rounding up people w / o Aryan DNA in Dachau and Buchenwald? If you are French, should I say "but you run the risk of French revolution part deux and Mme Defarge? I do notice you have some Asian sympathies, so if you are Asian residing in EU (or even in US, who knows, you could be located in US and just pulling my leg), then should I say "there is a risk of Manchukuo, cultural revolution, and Eastern front war, etc etc"?
A lot of violent events happened in the past 2 centuries. If you are forecasting any such event repeating in US, please do let us know why you think US is at a higher risk of this than EU. If it is a generic risk you are talking of, w / o any specific dates, again what makes US more vulnerable? The way I see it, European economies are weaker, demographics are worse, there is not enough risk taking, they are excessively dependent on exports (DE) or tourism (Italy / Spain) or financial sector (UK) and also being so fragmented, run the risk of being caught between US / EU. The pension liabilities are mounting and are a real problem. During Greece crisis, we found that most people cheat on taxes and people game their system to retire at 55 w / fat pensions but there are not enough tax payers to pay it.
BTW, I have zero interest to know where you personally are from; but when discussions get into cross country comparisons like this, it helps to know what your angle is. I think that would be honest, but then again, on this board, many people take shots at US but carefully hide their tracks.
Finally, the link you added is interesting; Thanks! I will say that Europe being fragmented does add to their costs and also makes scale economies a bit more difficult to achieve. That part is true. But it is not the only reason. Structurally, they chose a welfare state, rigid labor markets, more regulated bureaucracy, higher taxation, and now they are all shoehorned inta a single currency framework with a lot of national rivalries, animosities. I personally think Europe is in a dicey situation, and China poses more risk for you than for us.
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07-13-20 15:14 #964
Posts: 5662Originally Posted by Pessimist [View Original Post]
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07-13-20 12:15 #963
Posts: 22283Originally Posted by Pessimist [View Original Post]
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07-13-20 09:20 #962
Posts: 1171Originally Posted by Pessimist [View Original Post]
http://www.ciis.org.cn/english/2011-...nt_4635120.htm
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...d-for-decades/
https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-ju...-incarceration
https://chomsky.info/20110824/
Enjoy.
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07-13-20 00:23 #961
Posts: 6709And lets not talk about the Amish.
Plus, this can be found all over the world, and has nothing to do with Asia, nor east Asia. Studies performed in Bangladesh regarding microloans given out to highly religious women by the Grameen Bank of Bangladesh found that religious cult mindsets made people more likely to hold their words, and pay back their loans. But there were also massive downsides to this way The Grameen Bank operated (and still do to some degree). I am sure you can google that, but it leads to never ending poverty on large scale. And this is also seen with the black economy in China.
Furthermore, in Africa and South America, simillair cases has been seen, although not documented as well as with the Grameen Bank. The Freemasons of Europe for example, are notorious for having this belief that following a religion (christianity especially) are a massive net positive for capitalism as a whole due to these exact very same reasons. But they are essentially a cult. At every level. And this can be said about all the brotherhoods of christian europe. And even Skull and Bones in USA etc etc. And they all consider age first, then other ranks later. And these types of Cult Mindsets are always the same, and always dangerous.
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07-13-20 00:11 #960
Posts: 6709Given automation, there is no such thing as a demographic problem any longer. And due to the continuation of Moore's Law for the next 40 years due to 3 the stacking and new materials, the world will change its rules faster than you might think. So these old history studies are about to be dated. And we are about to enter the world of AI. And in this environment, I am starting to believe that a one world government is most likely the only way forward. Unless we want a global WW3 on our hands.
When it comes to these cultural differences Chongmal talks about, that is just one more of these "we are better than them" stories. And as much as BLM has something to it, such stories must also go. Because they are fake mindsets going forward, and only a source of racism.
They have also zip zero nothing to do with race or background, but a result of brainwashing. If you look at certain christian white european societies, such as the Mormons, Assemblies of God, Jehowas Witnesses or International Church of the Foursquare Gospel etc etc etc for example, you will find exactly the same stories as you just alluded to.
However, the term we use to describe these religious groups in university literature, are religious cults. And some might say, dangerous cults. Like in the book by Steven Hassan "Combatting Cult Mindcontrol", which looks at how Jehowas Witnesses live as an example. And on the same notion, as you are just alluding to, certain minority groups do operate exactly like as if they were culturally mindcontrolled cults. And that very notion is therefore also very dangerous.