Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[Sirioja]

I think we should stop talking about issue that cannot be solved in sex forum LOL, so let keep it last.

Some nations are not honest, good example is China. It is big nation now thanks to Japan for giving them technology and money via ODA to begin with if you know some politic (google ODA), but they are not honest government there, this also goes to Russia too, and also south Korea. In political slug, we call it the red team.

As for poor nations, virus has not got there yet, it is still spreading, and we begin to see it in Africa just recently like it took some time to get to Europe and USA and during that time Japan was giving warning because we are the first G7 nation with one of the most advance medical nation with many biggest medical companies in the world to get it as China is right next to us, but Europe and USA then thought it is a problem on other side of the world and they did not even begin preparing life support equipment production or even masks.

Also poor nations do not even have ways to test it, so they won't even know and if you can do mild to strong or even total lock down now, it is better not to test it. Testing do not do much beside sending them home or give them Avigan etc if they have enough Avigan, which nobody have as of now, we are making it now and it will be ready to ship out to 20 nations in May, even then you should save them for rainy days. You do not want cluster infections at hospital and collapse of medical system like what happened in USA and Europe. There was no point for those people to rush to hospital as they could not do much beside help those are in real need, which they could not due to over capacity of patients who do not need to be there..

Can you believe virus was not in FKK land, quite impossible it was not, even when was taken temperature at Sharks entry, but most infected don t have any symptom. Isn't also virus spreading in Japan islands towns? And I'm pretty sure virus will be in FKK land when will reopen, with so many guys and girls from all over the world. Anyway, interesting to have Japanese opinion about other Asian countries, but don t You mean North Korea for red, or really South? Russia is not so red anymore, but for sure not land of truth nor real freedom, not yet, not under Putin. Ana would shout about me if she heard me saying this about Putin who gave pride again to Russians from Moscow or Peter or Sotchi, when Russia was falling after the wall. Romania fell, ex DDR was lucky to become Germany.

[Pistons]

I am kinda going against the flood here and suspect Sweden did the right move in not closing down as much. The only thing they should have done better was to test far more than they have. You cannot test enough in order to get real data.

Because the only way I see it now, is that we have to burn this thing out. Although not destroying the health system, we need to keep it at max capacity in order to burn it out as quickly as possible. Otherwise, the virus will just mutate thousands of times before we reach herd imunity. And the more it mutates, the harder it will get to reach herd imunity. And also, the less effective vaccines will become. Actually, vaccines will be 99.99% useless from day one is my prediction due to the mutation rates some scientists are seing.

So basically, people will just have to die. A lot of people. It is the only way for society to get back to where we were. Otherwise, we'll just be herds in a cage for the rest of our lives. And hell, even Netflix, HBO and others are putting TV shows on hold, and gyms are closed. So this is getting boring fast.

[McAdonis]

Regarding minority death, oh hell, I work in healthcare and see the reason first hand. First, only 9% of people in America do not have access to health insurance, keep that in mind. 91% have coverage, that may not be universal but it sure is probably much higher than the number you were thinking. The difference between black and white insurance coverage is only 2-3%, that does not explain the current disparity in covid mortality.

The 2-3 percent difference in coverage you speak of is maybe less problematic under normal circumstances. But when there is a respiratory illness that is highly contagious, these untreated and undiagnosed are going to pose a danger to everybody around them. Illegal brown immigrants are not going to seek treatment for fear of being deported. Also if someone does not receive pay while they are sick (like are beloved WGs), they are more likely to go to work even if they have symptoms. All these factors could accelerate the spread.

You know what does? Cultural behavior leading to comorbidities. Healthy diet and fitness just isn't as integrated into the black and brown cultures. Their lower economic situations does not encourage physical health to be a main priority. Access to primary care may be a factor, but hardly the major player here.

Yes perhaps poor diet and fitness is 80 percent of the problem, but the liberals and academics believe that de-facto segregation plays a role in economic outcomes which in turn affects both lifestyle and health outcomes. According to Harvard School of Public Health journal back in 2016:

where we live determines opportunities to access high-quality education, employment, housing, fresh foods or outdoor space all contributors to our health.

"Health builds from where we live, learn, work and play and only secondarily in the doctors office.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/health-disparities-between-blacks-and-whites-run-deep/.

Being poor, being Black, living in a dangerous community, and seeing negative outcomes for yourself, your friends, and your family affects stress levels:

In fact, merely being black in America triggers exposure to stressors linked to premature biological aging. Research indicates that blacks get sick at younger ages, have more severe illnesses and are aging, biologically, more rapidly than whites. Scientists call this the "weathering effect," or the result of cumulative stress.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/policy-dose/articles/2016-04-14/theres-a-huge-health-equity-gap-between-whites-and-minorities.

Black and brown communities are situated in areas with high air and toxic pollution. Black children are 500 times more likely to die from asthma:

These negative health effects just get worse as you get older. Throughout your life, you're accumulating air pollution exposures, says Rachel Nethery, a biostatistician at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health who co-authored the new pre-print. Air pollution exposure in young adults has been linked to abnormal changes in the blood, which can lead to heart disease and high blood pressure later in life, both risk factors for severe and fatal Covid-19 cases. In adults, this has been closely associated with cardiovascular disease and diabetes.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/11/21217040/coronavirus-in-us-air-pollution-asthma-black-americans

[Delta Indigo]

Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.

UK 37,000+.

Spain 18,000+.

Italy 20,000+.

France 15,000+.

Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.

Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down.

USA itself is projected to have 61,000+ deaths. Unfortunately, NYC accounted for so many of US deaths, and will by the time this ends.

As for excessive suffering in minority populations, it is an unfortunate fact. We do not have universal free healthcare as they do in Europe, and hence death and suffering will follow income and wealth axis in USA, at least at a broad statistical level.

Our beloved Romania is supposedly doing a fabulous job. Just 700+ total deaths by Aug. Bulgaria is even better at 225+. Poland is at 2300+. I guess they locked down when the rest of Europe and US did, and they didn't have too many people traveling back and forth between them to Italy or Asia.

These projections are in line with what I would expect observing the statistical data thus far. However some of these figures, Bulgaria, Romania and even Poland are highly suspect, the quality of data varies from country to country and the political environment can influence the quality of data in certain countries far more than others, ie the figures in Romania and Bulgaria would be even more suspect due to this.

In Poland, as of now they are still proceeding with presidential elections despite the health implications since the ruling party thinks it can win easily. Some modelling has shown that holding these presidential elections even with many precautions will lead to a further 100,000 infections. I think if these elections go ahead, then the numbers for Poland could spiral. Also many of the most enthusiastic supporters of the ruling party are old people who will come out to vote and younger supporters of the opposition will stay home. That means a disproportionate share of the voting public on election day are vulnerable, what will that do to the death toll?

The one place where this could explode all over the place due to the late lockdown is Metropolitan Tokyo, I really hope not, since I have a vulnerable cousin living there, however this could eclipse the outbreak in NYC.

[Delta Indigo]

Yet New York City mortality rates are still lower than these "hard hit" nations. NYC is one of the most densely populated cities, if not the most in the western world, and the death rate of those infected is still lower than entire countries even accounting for the countryside population in those nations. As of today, 5800 deaths in New York county with 92,000 cases. That's 6.7%. Several European countries are sitting at a 10% case fatality rate. At this point, the US is far enough along the timeline to have peaked. Intubation rates and hospitalization rates have gone down in the past 3 days in New York. Other areas will see a surge but it will not be as bad as New York. The US is already on the plateau phase and while deaths will continue, death rates will decrease even more.

Regarding treatment, I transitioned to the ICU last week and effective protocols have already been established. Medicine is more complex than the public who thinks that a magic medication will come "cure" this. As with all advanced viral respiratory illnesses, symptom management is the treatment. Maintaining adequate ventilation whether it is via ventilator or a simple nasal cannula, sepsis control through blood pressure management and intravenous hydration, and some antibiotics to address secondary infections. That's all there is to do. Some antiviral therapies may help but that is hardly concretely established in the literature.

You certainly know more about the medical and scientific aspects of this than I do and I think almost anyone else here. So you think it has peaked in the US, I thought that most models had shown otherwise, it might very well have peaked in NYC, but I had thought in the US certainly not, but at most the US is only a few weeks behind Europe anyhow.

All I was doing was interpreting the statistical data and trying to explain it. Most of this is not well understand by quite a few people and their own prejudices factor into their assertions.

What you explained about the implications of treating this illness were illuminating to me, no one, including the news has explained it as well as you have. Thank you for that.

[ShooBree]

Who cares if you live in Sweden? I use to work and live in Sweden for a number of years in Malmo and other areas of the country. I traveled to over 100+ countries for work and play. Not sure why you would imply living in Sweden means you know more than others, you're a monger, not a politician.

My profession as a health scientist would make me well aware of COVID-19 and the effects on the economy and the people. Despite Sweden's apprehension, I can tell you that they could have better managed the crisis. Please refrain from using your citizenship as an automatic "we should trust you". Clearly, many forum members think otherwise.

You are delusional if you don't understand that I know much more than you do about the situation in Sweden because, unlike you, I live in Sweden and follow the national news closely. You are just a monger.

[Sirioja]

Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.

UK 37,000+.

Spain 18,000+.

Italy 20,000+.

France 15,000+.

Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.

Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down..

I don't know where you get these figures, but France was already nearly 14.000 deaths yesterday which was first not too many deaths day in this so black week, and when only really sick, but all very sick were treated in our hospitals with highest level equipment, but many couldn't be saved, even under intensive care, and I'm afraid Pistons was right, when I know France medical level, I never thought we would have 20.000 deaths, we lost this war, too many deaths, even much less than 1 % risk if you are less than 70 yo, not fat nor diabetic and no lungs nor heart problems, nor cancer. Confined which will be extended over 15 April, is told to save less than 3000 life since 17 March. Italy extend to 3 May. Spain which is down under think to close borders versus Summer tourism, ready to kill their economy. When UK and US don t really respect confined, when french police give penalties, would be really interesting to see real results for NL and Sweden with no confined, even of course can t compare with Italy and Spain where people live with old parents and killed them loving them. Anyway, french thank their doctors, I don t think many of those who were not saved, could have been, when we even used chloroquine, with few deaths from heart problems. Big shame for some who tried to make money, stealing masks, ventilators, those who write or tell to nurses or firemen or hospitals cleaner to stay away, to leave flat or building, because they are at risk about virus. Wish these shameful will be prosecuted and wish they won t need staff they insult because they don t deserve these insulted staff take risks for them. Some medical or safety staff died in this sad war.

[The Cane]

Not sure why you would imply living in Sweden means you know more than others, you're a monger, not a politician.

I agree that one does not necessarily know more than somebody else simply by virtue of their nationality. But, I wish that mongers would stop putting other mongers down precisely because they are mongers (seeing a lot of this lately in several threads). Conversely, somebody doesn't necessarily know less than somebody else simply by virtue of the fact of being a monger. There are many well-traveled, well-educated, intelligent people here from literally all walks of life. I would even bet a few politicians! So, when we have a disagreement with one of our mongering brothers, let us not criticize them for being a monger, and then use that as a basis to discount the legitimacy and validity of what they say. After all. Remember. If you're here, then you are a monger too! So if you show disdain towards somebody else for being a monger, then you show disdain for yourself.

[ShooBree]

Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.

UK 37,000+.

Spain 18,000+.

Italy 20,000+.

France 15,000+.

Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.

Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down.

USA itself is projected to have 61,000+ deaths. Unfortunately, NYC accounted for so many of US deaths, and will by the time this ends.

As for excessive suffering in minority populations, it is an unfortunate fact. We do not have universal free healthcare as they do in Europe, and hence death and suffering will follow income and wealth axis in USA, at least at a broad statistical level..

In Italy 25000 died because of the influenza during the 2015/2016 winter season, no lockdowns then. The focus on deaths made us destroy the economy and we might walk into a new Great Depression. Maybe it would have been better to let nature take it's course as we always have done before in history.

[Mr Ho]

Isn't 9% = 30 millions people, half France, who can't afford healthcare, 11 millions illegal, Hart island for poor when dying, but at least, compare to Asia, we have US figures. Only facts, and my country is also not perfect, but people have healthcare, I pay tax for this, even for foreigners to have healthcare in France.

The best health care one can receive is called BBBJ for the rate of 50 euro per 30 min LOL!

German FKK BBBJ is the best revitalization therapy for your soul LOL! You can even choose your international nurse who provide you BBBJ therapy as you wish LOL!

Clinic FKK LOL!

[AZN Monger]

The coronavirus is a giant problem for the Swedish economy, otherwise not so much. I know that many people in other countries wishes that they had the freedom that we have in Sweden.

The government haven't done much and the changes they are contemplating are small stuff like closing down certain bars and restaurants. As I, unlike you, live in Sweden and actually read and follow the news closely, I can safely say that you don't know what you are talking about.

Sweden's infected rate per million is lower than the one of Norway, Denmark, Israel, Austria and the list goes on, so please refrain from spreading disinformation.

Who cares if you live in Sweden? I use to work and live in Sweden for a number of years in Malmo and other areas of the country. I traveled to over 100+ countries for work and play. Not sure why you would imply living in Sweden means you know more than others, you're a monger, not a politician.

My profession as a health scientist would make me well aware of COVID-19 and the effects on the economy and the people. Despite Sweden's apprehension, I can tell you that they could have better managed the crisis. Please refrain from using your citizenship as an automatic "we should trust you". Clearly, many forum members think otherwise.

[Mursenary]

Isn't 9% = 30 millions people, half France, who can't afford healthcare, 11 millions illegal, Hart island for poor when dying, but at least, compare to Asia, we have US figures. Only facts, and my country is also not perfect, but people have healthcare, I pay tax for this, even for foreigners to have healthcare in France.

You are right, it is 30 million. Yet for some reason, we are still keeping people alive in NYC more efficiently than in all of France, Spain, Italy, UK, Belgium, and the Netherlands during this time of crisis.

As for the poor, we have Medicaid for the truly poor. The poor have health care. The people who are without, are the lower middle class. But that is by choice as they can pay privately. Since the US has a tax rate is 10-20 percent lower than the average European nation, we can use that money to pay for private health insurance, but people choose not to. That is the beauty of America, you have the freedom to do what you want. If you choose to not use the 10-20% tax savings and choose to spend it on something else, that is your individual freedom. Unlike Europe where you are forced by your government, we allow people to choice to make bad decisions. But they have to live with that decision. And again, despite these bad choices, our system will still make sure to save your life in a time of emergency. Hence, the superior survival rate during this COVID crisis. Facts.

[Sirioja]

Regarding health systems, not the media, individual posters on this forum.

The media is however guilty of portraying carnage and woe and using the data deceptively which have been regurgitated here. Regarding the USA, I have rarely seen the mainstream video media talk about death rates, only raw misleading numbers.

Regarding minority death, oh hell, I work in healthcare and see the reason first hand. First, only 9% of people in America do not have access to health insurance, keep that in mind. 91% have coverage, that may not be universal but it sure is probably much higher than the number you were thinking. The difference between black and white insurance coverage is only 2-3%, that does not explain the current disparity in covid mortality. You know what does? Cultural behavior leading to comorbidities. Healthy diet and fitness just isn't as integrated into the black and brown cultures. Their lower economic situations does not encourage physical health to be a main priority. Access to primary care may be a factor, but hardly the major player here.

Isn't 9% = 30 millions people, half France, who can't afford healthcare, 11 millions illegal, Hart island for poor when dying, but at least, compare to Asia, we have US figures. Only facts, and my country is also not perfect, but people have healthcare, I pay tax for this, even for foreigners to have healthcare in France.

[Mr Ho]

To your question why did some countries have such poor medical systems and why were they shown in such poor light by Corona?

The answer is a combination. Some countries are poor and didn't have sufficient funds to build up a good medical system. This was probably true in China and will be true in India and Africa as Pistons said a few times.

Some countries do have money but didn't spend sufficiently on healthcare. Also, what they had spent on matters too. US spends 20% of GDP on healthcare but there are large gaps. We have a public / private payer system as compared to mostly public payer in other countries. So, for example we pay a higher amount for the same drug than in most other countries. We have some extremely sophisticated things in US but some hospitals may not have sufficient PPE.

More importantly, when a sudden spike happens in number of cases, any local hospital can be overwhelmed. This can be a local issue. US a whole may have sufficient number of ventilators etc but if you have too many cases in NYC and too few cases in Florida, You can not match supply with demand efficiently because these are sick patients and cannot flows to other areas of the country.

I agree with someone who said this before. Poly perhaps. The rich countries will be fine. We will beat this. Yes, a lot of people are dead and many will lose jobs and loss of networth due to stock market but we will generally be fine. I am not so sure about poor countries. Many millions may die in those countries.

I think we should stop talking about issue that cannot be solved in sex forum LOL, so let keep it last.

Some nations are not honest, good example is China. It is big nation now thanks to Japan for giving them technology and money via ODA to begin with if you know some politic (google ODA), but they are not honest government there, this also goes to Russia too, and also south Korea. In political slug, we call it the red team.

As for poor nations, virus has not got there yet, it is still spreading, and we begin to see it in Africa just recently like it took some time to get to Europe and USA and during that time Japan was giving warning because we are the first G7 nation with one of the most advance medical nation with many biggest medical companies in the world to get it as China is right next to us, but Europe and USA then thought it is a problem on other side of the world and they did not even begin preparing life support equipment production or even masks.

Also poor nations do not even have ways to test it, so they won't even know and if you can do mild to strong or even total lock down now, it is better not to test it. Testing do not do much beside sending them home or give them Avigan etc if they have enough Avigan, which nobody have as of now, we are making it now and it will be ready to ship out to 20 nations in May, even then you should save them for rainy days. You do not want cluster infections at hospital and collapse of medical system like what happened in USA and Europe. There was no point for those people to rush to hospital as they could not do much beside help those are in real need, which they could not due to over capacity of patients who do not need to be there.

Lock down is easier for poor nations as they do not have much responsibilities as other big nations. I already explained about mega companies in Japan, they cannot do total lock down, it is not about money or greed, it is safety net for millions of people around world in financial way, they need to be paid even they are staying home or they will die in different ways than corona and that is actually more dangerous. Plus we believe in balanced lock down, not total lock down, I mean look at nations with total lock down, what happened to them.

We are expecting more worst period to come, so we are preparing for it now, but it won't stand if this goes on for long time. But we know the equipment we have to produce and we have medical companies like Omron, cannon etc producing it and other companies like Toyota etc. Have restructured their factories producing it as well.

Problem is people in Japan, we have about 70 percent decrease in movement of people in Tokyo according to google and yahoo, but we are still not scared enough, we live rather normally still. Most shops, department stores, cinemas, gym etc are closed though, but many restaurants are open. So we are definitely not scared enough.

What did scary now is that, we saw a tiger and a cat infected, one in New York and one in Brussels I think, thankfully in zoo, not in wild, but if this spread to other animals to animals then to humans, it will be hard to control it.

Either way, it won't be fixed on sex forum and look Japan is doing fine as usual and we are the one of the hope here for making vaccines as there are only few countries who can do this and western media has to do their jobs, but they should worry more about some of western nations situation where death rates are crazy, people are panic to the extent fighting for toilet paper, buying guns, digging mass grave among other chaos that is very third world like.

Anyways, G7 nations at least are honest countries enough and they won't lie the figure as it has tremendous damage if they do in other field, but some nations do not test on purpose, it is called strategy, and also again there is no point in testing mild symptom people because after testing they be told to go home and rest, eat well, so they just goto hospital to help destroy medical system and get infected in many cases.

Let hope this will be gone soon and there won't be second wave like Spanish flu, which killed more people with second wave. And I am glad FKK did not have any cluster infection because if FKK did, they will be attacked by politicians as axes of all evil. We do not need another reason for them to take away our BBBJ LOL!

[Pessimist]

I do not get the impression that news outlets are using infection / death rates as a means to evaluate any one nation's level of medical care. If anything doctors and nurses in Wuhan, Lombardy, and NYC are seen as heroes. Nobody doubts their competency or blames them for high number of lives lost. All the blame usually goes to politicians who downplayed the threat and failed to prepare.

Milan politicians encouraging citizens to go out even after first 11 towns locked down: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...navirus-crisis.

Germany politicians have been lauded. Their first chain of infections came a month before Italy's. They effectively contained that first cluster which bought them crucial time to ramp up capacity (urgent care beds, testing kit, medical / emergency personnel capacity). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN21R1DB.

However, media from around the world is decrying the lack of universal health care in the USA, and questioning why poor Black and Hispanic communities are dying at disproportionate rates.

Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.

UK 37,000+.

Spain 18,000+.

Italy 20,000+.

France 15,000+.

Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.

Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down.

USA itself is projected to have 61,000+ deaths. Unfortunately, NYC accounted for so many of US deaths, and will by the time this ends.

As for excessive suffering in minority populations, it is an unfortunate fact. We do not have universal free healthcare as they do in Europe, and hence death and suffering will follow income and wealth axis in USA, at least at a broad statistical level.

Our beloved Romania is supposedly doing a fabulous job. Just 700+ total deaths by Aug. Bulgaria is even better at 225+. Poland is at 2300+. I guess they locked down when the rest of Europe and US did, and they didn't have too many people traveling back and forth between them to Italy or Asia.