International travel and Covid 19

[ShoesAndSocks]

So I guess the key ideas. Testing on arrival, plus quarantine, plus strict control to make sure you do it.

So, why would anyone bother going through all of that unless travel was essential?

The idea of "normal" international travel within controllable "bubbles" like Australia + New Zealand or Germany + Austria I can see, but you can't widen those arrangements too much.

I read Thai Airways may contemplate bankruptcy as a means to "rehabilitate". Doesn't give you much confidence in making any advance bookings. I think airlines and hotels may have to offer deals where you don't have to pay until departure of first flight segment or first night of stay, to allay fears that they may go out of business before we start our trips.

Sad thing is it might all become self-fulfilling ... everyone will be scared of travel company insolvencies and not make bookings, and that of course will cause their insolvency.

[The Cane]

Some news. Italy is reopening for INTERNAL travel. There have been restrictions on movement within the country.

Also some relaxing of travel bans between countries within the European Union. It's not wide open yet by any means but some easing of restrictions is to happen.

A couple of more wrinkles on travel into various places and the tools that will be used.

- Hong Kong requires testing on arrival. You self administer the test, then go to a "holding room / hotel" to await the results. If you are clear of current infection you then go to your 14 day quarantine hotel room. You get a 1 time use key card, and also a tracking bracelet I believe. You go into your room once. And cannot leave until your 14 days is completed. You cannot leave the room. Food is brought to the door.

So I guess the key ideas. Testing on arrival, plus quarantine, plus strict control to make sure you do it.

And in Hong Kong what happens if a passenger tests positive at the port of entry?

[Zeos1]

Some news. Italy is reopening for INTERNAL travel. There have been restrictions on movement within the country.

Also some relaxing of travel bans between countries within the European Union. It's not wide open yet by any means but some easing of restrictions is to happen.

A couple of more wrinkles on travel into various places and the tools that will be used.

- Hong Kong requires testing on arrival. You self administer the test, then go to a "holding room / hotel" to await the results. If you are clear of current infection you then go to your 14 day quarantine hotel room. You get a 1 time use key card, and also a tracking bracelet I believe. You go into your room once. And cannot leave until your 14 days is completed. You cannot leave the room. Food is brought to the door.

So I guess the key ideas. Testing on arrival, plus quarantine, plus strict control to make sure you do it.

[Zeos1]

https://samchui.com/2020/05/09/whats...st-covid-19-2/#. Xr9 t1 S2 ZO3 e.

Link above is to a travel type group with some good information on the potential changes for travel.

Air Canada just announced they are laying off 50 -60 percent of their workforce. They are thinking 4 years to get back to normal, and only back to 25% by the end of this year from their current 10 or 15% of pre-Covid business. Air Canada is in no imminent financial danger. To me this shows that they are thinking "back to normal" is not happening any time soon. These are permanent lay-offs. They don't feel they can pay all or part of the salaries for that long to keep them around.

I think domestic travel has held up a bit better in the US (it was / is very restricted in Canada) but I don't think any of the major airlines will be keeping their workforce intact.

[Artisttyp]

https://samchui.com/2020/05/09/whats...st-covid-19-2/#. Xr9 t1 S2 ZO3 e.

[Lucky Nuts]

Interesting theory but the tests would need to be 100% accurate and if you picked up the virus on the flight (just an hour ago) would there be enough incubation period for the test to recognize the infection? I don't see how you safely get around the 2 weeks of isolation to be 100% sure.

I believe there will never be 100% test accuracy and therefore never 100 percent perfect screening. But I think if airport arrival screening can become 99 percent effective or close to that within 24 to 48 hours of arrival that a country like Thailand would not cancel their 2021 high tourist season. Just my opinion.

[Artisttyp]

This is the other type of test. A test for antibodies. It would say you have had the virus and have developed antibodies. But it doesn't say whether or not you have an active case. The other types of testing are for the virus directly. To tell whether you have an active case.

Both of these tests could be useful for travel, but as far as I know there is no country that is allowing people in based on a positive antibody test and a negative virus test. That's the so-called immunity certificate, or immunity passport idea.

True.

I was going to add how would the test know if you picked it up on the flight over or not? Too soon to tell.

Another variable to consider now on is how you will address illness in your country of visit if you become ill on the road. I was recently in Negril, Jamaica. Just finding cough syrup can prove to be difficult over there. What if I came down with Corona?

[Zeos1]

Like this? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a9515571.html At least it's part of a solution.

This is the other type of test. A test for antibodies. It would say you have had the virus and have developed antibodies. But it doesn't say whether or not you have an active case. The other types of testing are for the virus directly. To tell whether you have an active case.

Both of these tests could be useful for travel, but as far as I know there is no country that is allowing people in based on a positive antibody test and a negative virus test. That's the so-called immunity certificate, or immunity passport idea.

[Downandup]

Interesting theory but the tests would need to be 100% accurate ...

Like this? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/h...-a9515571.html At least it's part of a solution.

[Artisttyp]

The testing industry is working 24/7 to develop in high volumes faster more accurate tests. This is a needed and necessary development both for our hobby and for some normalization of societies in general. As it pertains to our hobby whether it's a 15 minute test on arrival or a 24 hour approved hotel quarantine while awaiting results either requirement would suffice for many of us even regardless of a required fee as well. Let's hope the testing industry makes the necessary strides in getting where we need to be sooner rather than later.

Interesting theory but the tests would need to be 100% accurate and if you picked up the virus on the flight (just an hour ago) would there be enough incubation period for the test to recognize the infection? I don't see how you safely get around the 2 weeks of isolation to be 100% sure.

[Lucky Nuts]

The testing industry is working 24/7 to develop in high volumes faster more accurate tests. This is a needed and necessary development both for our hobby and for some normalization of societies in general. As it pertains to our hobby whether it's a 15 minute test on arrival or a 24 hour approved hotel quarantine while awaiting results either requirement would suffice for many of us even regardless of a required fee as well. Let's hope the testing industry makes the necessary strides in getting where we need to be sooner rather than later.

[The Cane]

If contact tracing forms a key part of the way to control this pandemic, I can't see how widespread international travel can be allowed.

Yeah, I don't see how contact tracing would work very well within a large, populous country like the United States, let alone throwing in an international component on top of it.

[ShoesAndSocks]

If contact tracing forms a key part of the way to control this pandemic, I can't see how widespread international travel can be allowed.

Say I was in Frankfurt and I enjoyed my last night in Europe at an FKK club, and I'm required to leave contact details in case anyone in attendance is subsequently diagnosed with Covid-19. Then, next day I return home to Australia via Singapore. I've caught a train to FRA, one of the busiest hubs in the EU. Spent a few hours there mingling with travellers going all over the world, then onto a long-haul flight with passengers headed all over the world, then another couple of hours in very busy SIN airport, and finally another long flight home.

When I return home, someone from Frankfurt contacts me regarding an outbreak at the club and asks me who I have been in contact since my visit, so what happens then? I've possibly infected travellers across 3 countries, folks who have since travelled who-knows-where. Who wants responsibility for that? Certainly not me!

[MonkeyPaw]

Quarantine on arrival seems to be gaining ground as an option for many countries. Also there are countries that are setting up, or talking about setting up, "bubbles" where other countries with the virus under control can travel with their country. Essentially bilateral agreements. These would be based on seeing active cases gone or almost gone, and no new cases for a specified period. Australia is said to be looking at this with nearby countries / areas.

For Canadian or US travelers. Quarantine seems to be the best or most likely possible option after outright travel bans are lifted. Countries that have got the virus spread under control will likely opt for that, at least for travelers coming from places with active cases.

BUT. We all wait for the actual announcements of policies by various governments.

I find it a bit odd that in certain countries like Vietnam, that the "foreign infection" from outside the country is being highly propagandized. A country where doctors are not allowed to report COVID-10 diagnosis or determinations, rather government officials can be pretty scary. So Russia, just allowed these migrants to leave and board an airplane while infected? Did they get infected during the flight? Too many countries pointing the finger at outsiders or international travelers. So if I came from Vietnam with 300 cases and 0 deaths to the UK which has way more, I am the risk? Do flights crews quarantine themselves as they bounce country to country? None of this makes senses. The crap that these governments try to tell people and they believe it like 10 commandments. Chaos.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN22R03R

[Quagmire1974]

Thanks, Zeos1, for starting this thread. I just discovered this through TripAdvisor:

https://thepointsguy.co.uk/guide/reo...w2sicRezQPiyo4