Costa Del Sol Club Club Reports only

[PayForIt]

I'd certainly welcome reading one of The Cane's reports would back up his opinions. I've been back 300 posts without striking gold. You certainly are an expert on a lot of countries & cities, The Cane.

Do you want to link to any of your reports?

He reported on who he selected at Pigmalion in the report before yours! But additionally I have seen his reports for many years, he knew the same Melissa I did in Scandalos many years ago, and has provided me with some excellent information in PMs. About 6 weeks ago you questioned my integrity / report "if it happened" despite me providing names / times / clubs. I spent some time demolishing the insinuation. I was messaged (kindly) by many in personal messages and whatsapps telling me I need not have responded as senior members "know who is the real deal". Now you are again raising question marks about the veracity of another very senior and experienced members of the forum. I've asked you in the past to verify information and not had it. You've mentioned visiting E92 (albeit for about 30 minutes early in the evening) but have never named a single girl. Perhaps before casting aspersions on other senior members you should look nearer to home.

[Sirioja]

I'm afraid it could have had 10/10's in there but I could not stand that horrible small Smokey lounge. Why they didn't make smokers use that tent outside I will never know. The food was ok, (tiny seating area) and of course the beer was free (fridge in that tented area) but the lounge was terrible. I doubt Globe would appreciate the comparison. At least the roof area at Globe was a decent escape.

At Globe, staff asked if we had wow experience on 2018 , but not anymore when fell down porn level, for 150/30 , when got full GFE with real french kiss at LR for 50/30 . I don t smoke, but visited weekly for years.

[PayForIt]

Can't believe PFI still hasn't been there!

Neither can PFI! But your post hit the nail on the head. Knowing it is so expensive I tend to hit the other options when (rarely) in Madrid. However, I have a plan and expect to be there once before end of October!

[PayForIt]

Busy busy. Lots of noisy young guys from non EU countries, spending money on big fat asses. Easy money as they just cum in 3 seconds (according to the girls) and back to the bar. Not type of atmosphere I enjoy.

But was told by the manager (purple hair woman) that many new girls are arriving in Sept. As according to her Sept. And Oct. Are much better months for mongering as large groups of guys head to the coast to play golf during the day and another type of golf at night.

Make sure that you don't miss it.

Sandra (purple hair) is just a receptionist. Managers are either Juan (white haired Spanish guy) or Cornel. Much younger Romanian. Very nice guy.

Sandra is not wrong. July and August are not good months in Spain. Too hot, too many tourists etc. September will be better and I know already the club believe it will have no "hotel" rooms for punters given the high numbers of girls already. The fear about the clubs closing having gone will also attract and the climate improves.

[PayForIt]

Living Room was in Kaarst, Dusseldorf suburb, not Koln. Best club in Germany on 2016/2017 for girls level for GFE. I called it my little Globe. Had 80 hours with a exceptional Romanian beauty on 7 months. My best ever FKK girl including Globe Zurich.

I'm afraid it could have had 10/10's in there but I could not stand that horrible small Smokey lounge. Why they didn't make smokers use that tent outside I will never know. The food was ok, (tiny seating area) and of course the beer was free (fridge in that tented area) but the lounge was terrible. I doubt Globe would appreciate the comparison. At least the roof area at Globe was a decent escape.

[Qazwsx5]

Busy busy. Lots of noisy young guys from non EU countries, spending money on big fat asses. Easy money as they just cum in 3 seconds (according to the girls) and back to the bar. Not type of atmosphere I enjoy.

But was told by the manager (purple hair woman) that many new girls are arriving in Sept. As according to her Sept. And Oct. Are much better months for mongering as large groups of guys head to the coast to play golf during the day and another type of golf at night.

Make sure that you don't miss it.

[Andalus Expat]

This, and you say that you haven't even been to an FKK? Look, I care about my safety and comfort too. A lot! I would not be a tourist in any country and / or patronize any kind of business where I didn't have those two things. Seems to me that you've been to Germany looking in all the wrong places, and that's the problem. Cost can't be the issue since you pay more to get less on the CDS the way I see it. Try going to the top FKKs before writing off a whole nation when you haven't even experienced all that the place has to offer. Try it. You might like it! PFI and I sure as hell do LOL! And we're still alive and well, not having gotten mugged, etc. Come on man. Live a little! I'm not even talking about the wild side. You already did that. That would be the RLD LOL! One reason I don't go there (among many) is precisely because I do want to be safe! And yet, you go there to a place that is dirty and unsafe and say you don't feel safe (but of course), then turn around and write off all of Germany when it was you yourself who put yourself in an unsafe / dirty situation when there were other better choices you could have made (FKKs and escorts to name a couple). Come on man! That's just not making any sense and your reasoning is lacking here.

I'd certainly welcome reading one of The Cane's reports would back up his opinions. I've been back 300 posts without striking gold. You certainly are an expert on a lot of countries & cities, The Cane.

Do you want to link to any of your reports?

[The Cane]

Pigmalion in madrid is amazing, its mostly latina, but nothing like fat asses and stuff, all of the are great looking and willing to please. The whole club looks posh and great (a bit like milady) but there are more options and great place to have a drink. Prices like milday more or less.

The location is also great with some great hotels nearby to stay. Its a must. You must visit it once.

I never do incalls. Was tempted once in ibiza but then decided against it. Don't want to have problems.

Pigmalion has some lookers no doubt. I only went there once and never returned though because the price was just too high! Just couldn't justify spending that kind of money when I knew there were plenty of other places around town where I could get what I wanted at much better prices. In safe and clean environs LOL! Can't believe PFI still hasn't been there! I loved the variety of the place. Called over the girl I liked the most and turned out she was Brazilian (I know how to sniff the Brasiliera "buceta" out in a crowd haha). But also talked to girls from South Africa and Spain. I wanted the Brasiliera, but she was just talking stupid money to go back to my hotel with me. So, I left empty-handed that night.

[Sirioja]

Lots of great points by The Cane / Magic Sheep and Qaz.

I too want to be safe. But I also want to enjoy experiences and that often involves some degree of risk.

Frankfurt RLD is truly awful. Horribly dirty, and some of those streets running from the hauptbahnof are like a war zone. I would not feel safe mongering in that area at all, but then I never have in the streets of Brussels following immigrant influx. I don't go anymore because of being robbed there once. No violence just clever slight of hand theft. Had I caught the guy there would have been violence! But that is an area to be avoided.

Never mongered in SAmerica at all despite having previously holidayed there prior to getting divorced! Might as well have gone for it! Would truly love to try it but as MS says - long way to go. That said I love Thailand and that's not close either. I actually think that facially SA girls are the best looking. I just really don't like big booties and there are a lot of them in that area of the world from what I see in Scandalos Malaga! When you find a slim and stunning SA girl they are really hard to beat. I am also mildly put off by the SA penchant for drugs - really not my thing and I find it a real turn off. I know you have the option to refuse (I do) but it sort of feels like spoiling the party a bit and I dont like the feeling Im paying for a tute to feed her drug addiction. But hey, for all I know I might be doing that with 99% of the girls I session with even if they dont show it openly. I must get a mongering visit to SA at some point. The danger factor is of course there again. Felt safe in Argentina but not sure I would feel the same on Copacabana!

Qaz expresses concern about LE in Dubai. It is certainly correct that falling foul of the law here is most definitely not worth risk. But attitudes have undoubtedly changed. It is no longer against the law to be in a hotel room with a member of the opposite sex if not married. So that worry has gone. I doubt any of us are disrespectful to anyone or drunk in public. So again, managing the risks is possible. What is a nuisance is that some hotels are green and others red. Research necessary before selection if, like me, you dont want hookers coming to your home. Thats one advantage of Spain and Germany - mongering on the premises in clubs/FKKs instead of having to take them to hotels. I dont do SWs and would not visit a hooker on outcall - again - the danger factor of not knowing what to expect when you get there and horror stories (not only in Spain) of gangsters awaiting the eager punter and rinsing him under threat. What are you going to do - report it to the police?!!

Living Room was in Kaarst, Dusseldorf suburb, not Koln. Best club in Germany on 2016/2017 for girls level for GFE. I called it my little Globe. Had 80 hours with a exceptional Romanian beauty on 7 months. My best ever FKK girl including Globe Zurich.

[Qazwsx5]

Lots of great points by The Cane / Magic Sheep and Qaz.

I too want to be safe. But I also want to enjoy experiences and that often involves some degree of risk.

Frankfurt RLD is truly awful. Horribly dirty, and some of those streets running from the hauptbahnof are like a war zone. I would not feel safe mongering in that area at all, but then I never have in the streets of Brussels following immigrant influx. I don't go anymore because of being robbed there once. No violence just clever slight of hand theft. Had I caught the guy there would have been violence! But that is an area to be avoided.

Never mongered in SAmerica at all despite having previously holidayed there prior to getting divorced! Might as well have gone for it! Would truly love to try it but as MS says - long way to go. That said I love Thailand and that's not close either. I actually think that facially SA girls are the best looking. I just really don't like big booties and there are a lot of them in that area of the world from what I see in Scandalos Malaga! When you find a slim and stunning SA girl they are really hard to beat. I am also mildly put off by the SA penchant for drugs - really not my thing and I find it a real turn off. I know you have the option to refuse (I do) but it sort of feels like spoiling the party a bit and I dont like the feeling Im paying for a tute to feed her drug addiction. But hey, for all I know I might be doing that with 99% of the girls I session with even if they dont show it openly. I must get a mongering visit to SA at some point. The danger factor is of course there again. Felt safe in Argentina but not sure I would feel the same on Copacabana!

Qaz expresses concern about LE in Dubai. It is certainly correct that falling foul of the law here is most definitely not worth risk. But attitudes have undoubtedly changed. It is no longer against the law to be in a hotel room with a member of the opposite sex if not married. So that worry has gone. I doubt any of us are disrespectful to anyone or drunk in public. So again, managing the risks is possible. What is a nuisance is that some hotels are green and others red. Research necessary before selection if, like me, you dont want hookers coming to your home. Thats one advantage of Spain and Germany - mongering on the premises in clubs/FKKs instead of having to take them to hotels. I dont do SWs and would not visit a hooker on outcall - again - the danger factor of not knowing what to expect when you get there and horror stories (not only in Spain) of gangsters awaiting the eager punter and rinsing him under threat. What are you going to do - report it to the police?!!

The FKK experience is fairly unique. It is of course correct that the vast majority of the girls are Romanian or at least EE, though it's not difficult to find other nationalities, including Germans (if you try or want them. I think I gave the wrong impression regarding gyms at FKKs. I am only aware of one. At FKK Artemis in Berlin. I wish they all had them! For sure I don't go to an FKK for the gym! It's the other way around! Many years ago in the FKK forums I read a quote from a guy who said that going to FKKs was his total motivation to keep fit. Probably not the right reason but I totally get it. If you don't want to be one of those very fat guys wearing a robe or towel its a real driver! I'm not sure I would be quite as lean if I wasn't regularly visiting FKKs! Too easy to hide flab under clothes. Boy enough girls in clubs do it! I like the fact that sex is not the only activity on offer in an FKK. The ability to have an hour of sex, then head to a gym, or sauna, or sunbathing or swimming or even eating for recovery time, is good, as is the professional massage. MS makes a good point about chain smoking. For years before it closed I would not return to Living Room (Cologne) as it had what I called "the cancer lounge" where it was impossible not to inhale the rancid smoke whilst choosing the girls. Happily, most of the big FKKs now have designated smoking rooms / areas behind glass (as you see in many airports). This means the main areas are smoke free. Far far better.

Interesting comment by MS on Barca. Never really been there to monger but must give it a go. Ditto Pigmalion. Never been but the reports about this premium club in Madrid are good even if prices are reportedly high. The 300 price MS got seems a bargain. I've been threatening to go there for years and never got around to it! I must put that right!

The comments on Dubai are correct and the options are actually increasing. There is indeed diversity but oddly mainly venue related with some clubs favouring Viets and Filipinos whilst others are more Russians and others Uzbeks / Iranians and some of the slightly downmarket venues (but not dangerous and good fun) have quite a few African nations represented! The proliferation of AMS is noticeable though there was a police raid last week with many arrests which were highly publicised.

I always found the diversity in Club Vive Madrid one of its main attractions. I have had sessions with Americans, Brits, Japanese as well as SAs and EEs there. My last visit wasn't so successful but it was covid recovery period last year.

Sounds like you are towards Nueva Andalucia MS. A very nice area with some great restaurants and a good selection of top golf courses (I love playing Las Brisas).

On a final and positive note. Many thanks to Qaz re his confirmation that the feared legislation was all about vote winning and, as I reported when it first was mentioned. The club owners howled laughing and quipped that it would never come to fruition. Whilst they were right I do know that as the issue came closer the early dismissiveness gave way to genuine concern that in fact it could spell real trouble and a need for creativity. Happily, it's gone away, hence the options remain. Let's hope it paves the way for greater options on the CDS which at one point was very much a top mongering destination but has fallen from its previous glory. But then as MS correctly says, that is true of a lot of Europe. Much to the derision of some senior members of the London thread I have reported for years that its options have truly diminished unless you are willing to run the bait and switch escort scene. In fairness, some of the top agencies have combated bait and switch by getting the girls to post selfie pics and videos. Great idea and it's become common for girls to expect a punter to request a short FaceTime or video which will be available for 10 minutes before auto-deleting. At least you get to see what you are really buying then. But the UK is a long way behind other European countries as a mongering destination. Shame as its a great country to visit.

I anticipate getting back to CDS for a mini break soon, but will return East then for European winter. A sure sign of getting older is chasing the climate instead of the girls!

Pigmalion in madrid is amazing, its mostly latina, but nothing like fat asses and stuff, all of the are great looking and willing to please. The whole club looks posh and great (a bit like milady) but there are more options and great place to have a drink. Prices like milday more or less.

The location is also great with some great hotels nearby to stay. Its a must. You must visit it once.

I never do incalls. Was tempted once in ibiza but then decided against it. Don't want to have problems.

[MagicSheep74]

Lots of great points by The Cane / Magic Sheep and Qaz.

I anticipate getting back to CDS for a mini break soon, but will return East then for European winter. A sure sign of getting older is chasing the climate instead of the girls!

Great stuff PFI, I think once in my life I will head across to Sao Paulo for a trip and I do really read a lot of very positive things about mongering there. I done Rio De Janeiro many years ago and while the city was incredibly impressive, I not overly so with the women. Although I here there is much more diversity to there appearance in SP.

Definitely give Pygmalion a shot next time you pass through Madrid. I lived in Barcelona 10 years ago for 18 months and Catalan guy put my onto the local forum about girls. And some of the girls it produced were simply stunning, albeit independents. Is it still the same now in Barca or Pygmalion, I have not been for years. So can't comment with complete confidence.

My report on 92, MP, Scandalo, The revamped Casa MASA will follow in 4 weeks when I return to Marbella. Expectations not high, but I always have fun.

Stay safe.

And QAZ, get yourself to Dubai when you get the chance. The United Nations of Muff. Never felt in any danger.

[PayForIt]

Lots of great points by The Cane / Magic Sheep and Qaz.

I too want to be safe. But I also want to enjoy experiences and that often involves some degree of risk.

Frankfurt RLD is truly awful. Horribly dirty, and some of those streets running from the hauptbahnof are like a war zone. I would not feel safe mongering in that area at all, but then I never have in the streets of Brussels following immigrant influx. I don't go anymore because of being robbed there once. No violence just clever slight of hand theft. Had I caught the guy there would have been violence! But that is an area to be avoided.

Never mongered in SAmerica at all despite having previously holidayed there prior to getting divorced! Might as well have gone for it! Would truly love to try it but as MS says - long way to go. That said I love Thailand and that's not close either. I actually think that facially SA girls are the best looking. I just really don't like big booties and there are a lot of them in that area of the world from what I see in Scandalos Malaga! When you find a slim and stunning SA girl they are really hard to beat. I am also mildly put off by the SA penchant for drugs - really not my thing and I find it a real turn off. I know you have the option to refuse (I do) but it sort of feels like spoiling the party a bit and I don’t like the feeling I’m paying for a tute to feed her drug addiction. But hey, for all I know I might be doing that with 99% of the girls I session with even if they don’t show it openly. I must get a mongering visit to SA at some point. The danger factor is of course there again. Felt safe in Argentina but not sure I would feel the same on Copacabana!

Qaz expresses concern about LE in Dubai. It is certainly correct that falling foul of the law here is most definitely not worth risk. But attitudes have undoubtedly changed. It is no longer against the law to be in a hotel room with a member of the opposite sex if not married. So that worry has gone. I doubt any of us are disrespectful to anyone or drunk in public. So again, managing the risks is possible. What is a nuisance is that some hotels are green and others red. Research necessary before selection if, like me, you don’t want hookers coming to your home. That’s one advantage of Spain and Germany - mongering on the premises in clubs/FKKs instead of having to take them to hotels. I don’t do SWs and would not visit a hooker on outcall - again - the danger factor of not knowing what to expect when you get there and horror stories (not only in Spain) of gangsters awaiting the eager punter and rinsing him under threat. What are you going to do - report it to the police?!!

The FKK experience is fairly unique. It is of course correct that the vast majority of the girls are Romanian or at least EE, though it's not difficult to find other nationalities, including Germans (if you try or want them. I think I gave the wrong impression regarding gyms at FKKs. I am only aware of one. At FKK Artemis in Berlin. I wish they all had them! For sure I don't go to an FKK for the gym! It's the other way around! Many years ago in the FKK forums I read a quote from a guy who said that going to FKKs was his total motivation to keep fit. Probably not the right reason but I totally get it. If you don't want to be one of those very fat guys wearing a robe or towel its a real driver! I'm not sure I would be quite as lean if I wasn't regularly visiting FKKs! Too easy to hide flab under clothes. Boy enough girls in clubs do it! I like the fact that sex is not the only activity on offer in an FKK. The ability to have an hour of sex, then head to a gym, or sauna, or sunbathing or swimming or even eating for recovery time, is good, as is the professional massage. MS makes a good point about chain smoking. For years before it closed I would not return to Living Room (Cologne) as it had what I called "the cancer lounge" where it was impossible not to inhale the rancid smoke whilst choosing the girls. Happily, most of the big FKKs now have designated smoking rooms / areas behind glass (as you see in many airports). This means the main areas are smoke free. Far far better.

Interesting comment by MS on Barca. Never really been there to monger but must give it a go. Ditto Pigmalion. Never been but the reports about this premium club in Madrid are good even if prices are reportedly high. The 300 price MS got seems a bargain. I've been threatening to go there for years and never got around to it! I must put that right!

The comments on Dubai are correct and the options are actually increasing. There is indeed diversity but oddly mainly venue related with some clubs favouring Viets and Filipinos whilst others are more Russians and others Uzbeks / Iranians and some of the slightly downmarket venues (but not dangerous and good fun) have quite a few African nations represented! The proliferation of AMS is noticeable though there was a police raid last week with many arrests which were highly publicised.

I always found the diversity in Club Vive Madrid one of its main attractions. I have had sessions with Americans, Brits, Japanese as well as SAs and EEs there. My last visit wasn't so successful but it was covid recovery period last year.

Sounds like you are towards Nueva Andalucia MS. A very nice area with some great restaurants and a good selection of top golf courses (I love playing Las Brisas).

On a final and positive note. Many thanks to Qaz re his confirmation that the feared legislation was all about vote winning and, as I reported when it first was mentioned. The club owners howled laughing and quipped that it would never come to fruition. Whilst they were right I do know that as the issue came closer the early dismissiveness gave way to genuine concern that in fact it could spell real trouble and a need for creativity. Happily, it's gone away, hence the options remain. Let's hope it paves the way for greater options on the CDS which at one point was very much a top mongering destination but has fallen from its previous glory. But then as MS correctly says, that is true of a lot of Europe. Much to the derision of some senior members of the London thread I have reported for years that its options have truly diminished unless you are willing to run the bait and switch escort scene. In fairness, some of the top agencies have combated bait and switch by getting the girls to post selfie pics and videos. Great idea and it's become common for girls to expect a punter to request a short FaceTime or video which will be available for 10 minutes before auto-deleting. At least you get to see what you are really buying then. But the UK is a long way behind other European countries as a mongering destination. Shame as its a great country to visit.

I anticipate getting back to CDS for a mini break soon, but will return East then for European winter. A sure sign of getting older is chasing the climate instead of the girls!

[The Cane]

Dubai is good if you are looking for high end of the market. But I wouldn't dare mongering there as you never know what may happen in these countries, rules can change in 5 seconds there and if you are caught over there then.

I would say that you are right in this about Dubai. But, like so many others, I took a chance and went for it. Stuck to the rules and didn't do shit to draw undue attention to myself. Go to the right places and you got tutes and free flowing alcohol everywhere in a Muslim country (Morocco is good too but UAE better)! There were so, so many hot Ruskie girls in Dubai too. Fucked a pretty blonde one from Crimea in my hotel room. But also Turkish (very dirty) and Filipina (told me an Arab guy had impregnated her) and Turkmen (white-skinned, eastern orthodox pussy)! There were Chinese girls and Ethiopian girls and Arab girls and Iranian girls and pretty tutes from all over the Former Soviet Union. Best overall selection on the planet (and I'm not even listing them all). My God met an incredibly exotic one. Russian father and Chinese mother. Looked Russian but was Chinese in every other way, including speech (was raised 100% by her mother). So exotic! Now all that said, you get more for less money in Brazil and Germany. Hell Thailand and the PI too! Yes, yes I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but it's true! Brazil and Germany offer the best overall value (high-quality sexual services provided for the money expended). This is my view. This is my truth LOL!

[Qazwsx5]

This, and you say that you haven't even been to an FKK? Look, I care about my safety and comfort too. A lot! I would not be a tourist in any country and / or patronize any kind of business where I didn't have those two things. Seems to me that you've been to Germany looking in all the wrong places, and that's the problem. Cost can't be the issue since you pay more to get less on the CDS the way I see it. Try going to the top FKKs before writing off a whole nation when you haven't even experienced all that the place has to offer. Try it. You might like it! PFI and I sure as hell do LOL! And we're still alive and well, not having gotten mugged, etc. Come on man. Live a little! I'm not even talking about the wild side. You already did that. That would be the RLD LOL! One reason I don't go there (among many) is precisely because I do want to be safe! And yet, you go there to a place that is dirty and unsafe and say you don't feel safe (but of course), then turn around and write off all of Germany when it was you yourself who put yourself in an unsafe / dirty situation when there were other better choices you could have made (FKKs and escorts to name a couple). Come on man! That's just not making any sense and your reasoning is lacking here.

I will possibly visit FKK next time in Germany. My experience was about normal brothels and night clubs. It was my first time in frankfurt so didn't expect to see the RLD to be that bad, headed back to the hotel after 5 minutes walking there.

Dubai is good if you are looking for high end of the market. But I wouldn't dare mongering there as you never know what may happen in these countries, rules can change in 5 seconds there and if you are caught over there then.

[Sirioja]

I said that I actually like Germany, the countryside is beautiful, cities are fine, Berlin being my favorite in Germany but after exploring Berlin for 2,3 days then I start to get bored because there is not so much to see or do, that never happens in cities like Barcelona, Madrid or even Sevilla. Thats why many germans head to spain for their vacations, good food, good weather, warm people and lots of clubs and bars. Spain is possibly the best travel destination.

Mongering is good in Germany but the biggest problem is the open door policy of Germany. Tbh in Frankfurt and Dusseldorf (the only german cities I tried mongering) I didn't feel safe at all. RLD in frankfurt is just horrible, extremely dirty and full of criminals from other countries, it just doesn't feel like europe. Inside the clubs, same again full of immigrants trying to mug you. Dusseldorf pretty much the same, fighting outside its biggest club, pretty scary.

I haven't been to FKK so can't comment on that but I'm sure many immigrants head to those too. For me safety is the most important thing, I want to feel relaxed when in a club, unfortunately I didn't feel that way in Germany, Austria. Switzerland was fine for mongering, I didn't have to worry for my wallet but as magic says there was no variety and very cold girls.

Also as you correctly said scandalo is full of SA but there are many countries in south America, so there are many girls from different areas of SA, all of them different.

Dubai girls are very good, mostly high end but I know a dozen of them who work on CDS during the summer and go there after Sept.

Spain is far better country than Germany for holidays, foods, sea, mountains. So many Germans love Spain. But for paid sex and when You need real french kiss like me, I m pretty sure Germany is easier and for much less expensive, even with German girls. I have one who is a busy superstar, so lovely, for 200/120 full GFE, squirting, she proposed me on our discovery, from my way for DATY. At Sharks which is one the biggest club in Germany, south Frankfurt, mostly Balkanians on late night, I was many times the only Caucasian at closing at 5 am and on parking, and never had any problem. I would worry more at Paradise Junquera with many low level French, when I m French, when Figueras, Ampuriabrava and Rosas are beautiful. What I love in Germany are autobahns, even can also push in Spain like in Italy.