D. F. Street Scene

[Derrick]

i answered your post yesterday and as said there is enough choice for every single budget. casa de citas are rep001tered all over the city. so also in the city centre. tons of them, some better then the other but in general if you want something cheaper then the expensive escort services this is the way to go. expect to pay something between 400 and a 1000 pesos.

about crime in df, i totally agree with the rest. just take care, dont act as a tourist and when you do your homework you will know your way around in this huge city. have fun on your trip!

this will be my 5th trip to d.f. i choose to go there because it is such an interesting city. i have traveled all over the u.s. and while it does have its attributes it eventually starts looking the same. there is a mall in everytown, chain restuarants, the people dress the same. unless you are wanting to see the environment (mountains, oceans...) every thing else looks alike.

d.f. is a unique city. it has culture, ancient history, architecture, you name it and you can find it there. that is what i enjoy about d.f. there are a few other cities on par with it (new york, paris,...) but i can afford to do what i like in d.f. i can't in ny.
i deal with the crime by staying alert. i have a plan if something goes wrong. i don't know if it will work, but it involves me losing my money and running like hell. that is what makes the city interesting.

thanks for the information. and by the way, i still believe there has to be a middle ground. my economic theory has never been proven wrong no matter what it is applied to.

[Doubt98]

This will be my 5th trip to D.F. I choose to go there because it is such an interesting city. I have traveled all over the U.S. and while it does have its attributes it eventually starts looking the same. There is a mall in everytown, chain restuarants, the people dress the same. Unless you are wanting to see the environment (mountains, oceans...) every thing else looks alike.
D.F. is a unique city. It has culture, ancient history, architecture, you name it and you can find it there. That is what I enjoy about D.F. There are a few other cities on par with it (New York, Paris,...) but I can afford to do what I like in D.F. I can't in NY.
I deal with the crime by staying alert. I have a plan if something goes wrong. I don't know if it will work, but it involves me losing my money and running like hell. That is what makes the city interesting.
Thanks for the information. And by the way, I still believe there has to be a middle ground. My economic theory has never been proven wrong no matter what it is applied to.

[Mill Just]

this is one of those topics (relative danger in cities), that has no definitive answer, but many opinions.

i actually lived in the southside of chicago for 7 years so i can render a pretty good opinion on that topic. i've also spent about 8 weeks in df over the last four years and maybe 3 weeks in monterrey in the last two years, so i can provide a visitor's opinion there.

i never felt immediately threatened in chicago. in seven years, i was never robbed. i had my car broken into once and there was a woman raped in the neighborhood. additionally there was a guy [CodeWord125] other guys in the neighborhood for a while. there was a large african american population with relatively low incomes. the key factor was being able to distinguish between gang-bangers looking for trouble and regular neighborhood kids goofing around.

in mexico city, i think the places most gringos go are pretty safe. i think the worst neighborhood i've been to is la merced in the daytime which doesn't pose a threat. now i would not hang out there at night or places near park in the centro historico at night, mostly because i've been warned not to.

in monterrey, i've spent a lot of time at night in the club zone, walking between clubs etc. seen a lot of drunk guys and a few vomiters and some suspicious looking guys, but never had any confrontations and generally felt safe walking late at night alone.

i think given the much higher objective poverty levels in mexico, the population is much less prone toward violent crime than americans would be given the same level of poverty.

additionally gang violence in either country is primarily limited to those directly involved with gang neighborhoods or activities, and doesn't often affect tourists.

i think you are completely right. however, as carlos stated, many crimes against property in mexico city aren't reported and that throws off the statistics. the only statistics that can be relied upon are the ones regarding violent crime. and, according, to the un crime comission mexico actually has a higher murder rate than the u.s. the united states, though, dwarves most countries with regard to theft and robbery.

i'm also a native of chicago and, eventhough i was a victim of an apartment theft in chicago, i never felt unsafe just as i never felt unsafe in mexico city. just watch what you're doing and where you're going and you'll be safe.

[Round the World]

this is one of those topics (relative danger in cities), that has no definitive answer, but many opinions.

i actually lived in the southside of chicago for 7 years so i can render a pretty good opinion on that topic. i've also spent about 8 weeks in df over the last four years and maybe 3 weeks in monterrey in the last two years, so i can provide a visitor's opinion there.

i never felt immediately threatened in chicago. in seven years, i was never robbed. i had my car broken into once and there was a woman raped in the neighborhood. additionally there was a guy [CodeWord125] other guys in the neighborhood for a while. there was a large african american population with relatively low incomes. the key factor was being able to distinguish between gang-bangers looking for trouble and regular neighborhood kids goofing around.

in mexico city, i think the places most gringos go are pretty safe. i think the worst neighborhood i've been to is la merced in the daytime which doesn't pose a threat. now i would not hang out there at night or places near park in the centro historico at night, mostly because i've been warned not to.

in monterrey, i've spent a lot of time at night in the club zone, walking between clubs etc. seen a lot of drunk guys and a few vomiters and some suspicious looking guys, but never had any confrontations and generally felt safe walking late at night alone.

i think given the much higher objective poverty levels in mexico, the population is much less prone toward violent crime than americans would be given the same level of poverty.

additionally gang violence in either country is primarily limited to those directly involved with gang neighborhoods or activities, and doesn't often affect tourists.

[Henry Vi]

Gezz,

I leave for a few days, and suddenly I am reading all this reports about my city being the worst dump on earth.

Mexico City is as dangerous as any other big city in the world. I have lived here all my life, and yes, I have been robbed at gunpoint once. But saying that there are men with submachine guns in every gas station is just wrong.

We complain about safety all the time to our government, but of all the local I know, maybe just one or two don't feel safe in their everyday lives. I think that is because we learn to live with it. I am not saying we just accept that we'll get robbed eventually, on the contrary; I just think we are more street wise. Subconciously, we are always on the lookout, always mind our surroundings, but no, we don't run every red light at night, that is not true either.

I think Mexico City is as dangerous as Monterrey; somebody else has already mentioned the recent killings perpetrated by the drug cartels in Monterrey. Mexico City is so big, that naturally the number of robberies, killings, etc, will be more than in Guadalajara or Monterrey, but proportionally, I think we are even.

My advice would be, don't be paranoid. I mean, somebody said they did not feel safe at La Merced. I think that is one of the less likely places something would happen to you, unless you act like a clueless tourist. Maybe you think you'll get arrested. The cops are just playing their part of the game; you just have to play yours and not feel intimidated by them; do not even regard them.

[Mill Just]

Of course, I am not doubting that there is crime in Mexico City- and lots of it. I'm just citing my first hand experience. In 2 months of living there and at least 50 trips there over the last few years, I have never personally seen a crime take place. Of course, I have heard the stories and newspaper accounts, though, and I take them to be true. In a city of about 30 million people you WILL have crime- and lots of it. When I decided to go to Mexico City for the first time, my Mexican friends practically begged me not to go because I'd be mugged, beaten, kidnapped, my organs harvested, etc... As I got off at the bus terminal I was expecting a scene from Mad Max with flaming arrows being shot at me and gangs of freaks trying to steal my bottle of water. What I found, though, was a big city that has pockets of crime, much like most big cities. What makes it appear so much worse is that it stands out in contrast compared to most Mexican cities.

And I know that most of the targets are the same Mexican locals who live there. And, Carlos, I am also aware of the incident against the American just as I'm aware of the rampant drug cartels and executions in Monterrey. Sometimes, no matter where you are, you will bump into crime. Its every traveller's job to try his best to stay out of situations which could put him into danger. Mexico City is a lot safer if you make it safe for yourself, but nothing is 100 %.

Still, though, Mexico City is the pits for mongering and should be avoided if possible. I LOVE the anthros and the museums, but that's it. The non-pro atmosphere is great. But for working chicas at better prices and in a safer environment, go anywhere else in Mexico. However, if you must go to Mexico City:

*Avoid non-tourist areas. There's nothing to see there anyway
*Leave all valuables and passport in the hotel safe.
*Hide your cash in your shoes or other non-accessible areas (!) I hid my money, taped to the inside of my sock so that, even if my would-be assailant took my shoes from me- they still wouldn't see the money. And I also made a compartment for my cash in my belt.
*Dress as much like a bum as possible. Torn jeans and dirty sneakers do the trick.
*Don't act like a tourist.
*NEVER go anywhere with those guys in the Zona Rosa who want to take you to the best strip club in all of Mexico. Even if they are on the up-and-up, you will still get ripped off by the club.
*Take your hotel taxi. And have them pick you up as well. It's a a lot more expensive, but also a lot safer.
*Buy a pre-paid Mexican cell phone and program it with emergency numbers and safe taxi drivers' numbers. Even if the phone deactivates between trips, you can always reactivate it for 100 pesos.
*Be 6 ft 3 inches tall, weigh 265 lbs and be an ex-boxer like me. LOL.

Hope I helped and Be Safe.

Crime: Mill it is so pletiful, that no one reports it and no news media reports it anymore. People I know from my job back in the late 90's have been victims of express kidnappings. One was held in his room for 2 days till they milked his credit cards dry and another one, a female companion from my job, was kidnapped and left alone in the worst part of the airport area.
So I guess you had no idea of the American that was kidnapped while driving in a Taxi and shot, or the one that was mugged and shot to death in front of his wife because he refuesed to surrender his watch.... there are so many horror stories down there.
Like I said in one of my PMs to you and you yourself acknowldege here too, is that you know your way around, contrary to other mongers that do not.
You should tell people, cause you know Mexico City better than I do, to thread carefully, not just "cause it never happened to me" does not erase the fact the Mexico City is one of the most dangerous ones in the world.

[MonterreyDude]

Iam Mexican and Iam not offended by the truth. (Iam from Monterrey, not Mexico City)
What you say of el DF is quite right and that's what I've trying to point out here in this thread.
And yes, Mexico City fares a little better than some countries South of us, but not by that much...
A good comparison to Mexico city right now in your country would be New Orleans post Katerina.

First hand - I used to come down to DF very regularly as I had a business there. I actually did a survey amongst my staff of approx 50 - and EACH ONE of them - mostly locals - had been robbed at GUNPOINT - at least once in the past few years - with a few having been robbed multiple times!
And your point about not doing anything you wouldn't do if you're in Southside Chicago - well I feel that the WHOLE of Mexico City is like the worst part of the worst city Stateside! Body guards in full body armour and submachine gun at every gas station (to prevent customers being robbed off their wallet and car as soon as they roll down the window to order gas), quasi legal to run ANY red light as soon as its dark (if you stop, for sure you'll get mugged!), traps all over the streets to incapacitate cars - and then robbers awaiting when the car breaks down, corrupt Cops and everybody else - Jeez DF IS a dump as far as I'm conerned - and a place I definitely would not go to for mongering.
My full apologies to anybody here who may be offended with what I said above - and of course it's my own very humble opinion. So please don't tell me to F..k off - or go back to SE Asia. Just IMHO - and of course I AM spoiled by all that SE Asia IS!
One bright spot is that a lot of people have told me that - comparatively - things are much WORSE in countries further South of Mexico! Ouch!
Se Asia Joe

[SE Asia Joe]

While I have to say that Carlos is mostly correct, I also have to point out that all of the crime stories that I have heard regarding Mexico City have been second hand accounts and/or news stories.
.....
Mexico City IS indeed dangerous, but I suspect that any intelligent visitor from a big US city would most likely be safe. It's just a matter of knowing where you're going and not making yourself an inviting target. if you keep your guard up and don't do anything that you wouldn't do in, say, the Southside of Chicago, you should be very safe.

First hand - I used to come down to DF very regularly as I had a business there. I actually did a survey amongst my staff of approx 50 - and EACH ONE of them - mostly locals - had been robbed at GUNPOINT - at least once in the past few years - with a few having been robbed multiple times!
And your point about not doing anything you wouldn't do if you're in Southside Chicago - well I feel that the WHOLE of Mexico City is like the worst part of the worst city Stateside! Body guards in full body armour and submachine gun at every gas station (to prevent customers being robbed off their wallet and car as soon as they roll down the window to order gas), quasi legal to run ANY red light as soon as its dark (if you stop, for sure you'll get mugged!), traps all over the streets to incapacitate cars - and then robbers awaiting when the car breaks down, corrupt Cops and everybody else - Jeez DF IS a dump as far as I'm conerned - and a place I definitely would not go to for mongering.
My full apologies to anybody here who may be offended with what I said above - and of course it's my own very humble opinion. So please don't tell me to F..k off - or go back to SE Asia. Just IMHO - and of course I AM spoiled by all that SE Asia IS!
One bright spot is that a lot of people have told me that - comparatively - things are much WORSE in countries further South of Mexico! Ouch!
Se Asia Joe

[MonterreyDude]

Mill says: "As a general rule in Mexico- Never, ever trust anyone who is TOO eager to help you. Never let anyone in your hotel room without the hotel knowing there is someone in your hotel room. Tip everybody at your hotel very well and promise to come back and tip some more. And, again- trust no one."

This is the first time someone is dead on.
Tipping in Mexico City has to be done without hesitation and be generous.
On other forums I post at, the mongers always complain about tipping in Mexico City, even at the posh high class hotels for extra sevices like extra towels or getting the front door open for you, or the bell boys, concierge, etc.
Hell, at the moderate priced hotels this is not an incentive, it is life saving.
They will be on the lookout for you for all the reasons Mill says in his post.

Crime: Mill it is so pletiful, that no one reports it and no news media reports it anymore. People I know from my job back in the late 90's have been victims of express kidnappings. One was held in his room for 2 days till they milked his credit cards dry and another one, a female companion from my job, was kidnapped and left alone in the worst part of the airport area.
So I guess you had no idea of the American that was kidnapped while driving in a Taxi and shot, or the one that was mugged and shot to death in front of his wife because he refuesed to surrender his watch.... there are so many horror stories down there.
Like I said in one of my PMs to you and you yourself acknowldege here too, is that you know your way around, contrary to other mongers that do not.
You should tell people, cause you know Mexico City better than I do, to thread carefully, not just "cause it never happened to me" does not erase the fact the Mexico City is one of the most dangerous ones in the world.

While I have to say that Carlos is mostly correct, I also have to point out that all of the crime stories that I have heard regarding Mexico City have been second hand accounts and/or news stories. I have visited Mexico City numerous times and actually had lived in the D.F. for about 2 months and , except for the fleecing of horny men at the strip clubs, I have never even seen a crime in progress- And I'm always out on the street at all hours.

As a general rule in Mexico- Never, ever trust anyone who is TOO eager to help you. Never let anyone in your hotel room without the hotel knowing there is someone in your hotel room. Tip everybody at your hotel very well and promise to come back and tip some more. And, again- trust no one.

Mexico City IS indeed dangerous, but I suspect that any intelligent visitor from a big US city would most likely be safe. It's just a matter of knowing where you're going and not making yourself an inviting target. Sometimes us gringos let our guards down on vacation or think that Mexico City is like the rest of Mexico, which is usually very safe. So, if you keep your guard up and don't do anything that you wouldn't do in, say, the Southside of Chicago, you should be very safe.

[Mill Just]

Boystown = Zona Roja, Red distric.

Mill is quite correct...
and, Doubt, Mexico City is dangerous if you do not know where you are walking.... that is one of the reasons edgy night life has died there.
Mexico city is also famous for escorts and prostitutes that druged their customers. But drugging them in matter that either they would put them in a hospital or kill them out right.
No one investigated this kind of murders (one less john and things like that) till they did it to a couple of influential types.
Some street walkers will be carrying ice picks with them, to protect themselves and rob you too. The moment they get in the car they will just stick the pick in your leg.
And so on and so on...
A city of 30 million has 30,000 stories to tell per day.....
.

While I have to say that Carlos is mostly correct, I also have to point out that all of the crime stories that I have heard regarding Mexico City have been second hand accounts and/or news stories. I have visited Mexico City numerous times and actually had lived in the D.F. for about 2 months and , except for the fleecing of horny men at the strip clubs, I have never even seen a crime in progress- And I'm always out on the street at all hours.

As a general rule in Mexico- Never, ever trust anyone who is TOO eager to help you. Never let anyone in your hotel room without the hotel knowing there is someone in your hotel room. Tip everybody at your hotel very well and promise to come back and tip some more. And, again- trust no one.

Mexico City IS indeed dangerous, but I suspect that any intelligent visitor from a big US city would most likely be safe. It's just a matter of knowing where you're going and not making yourself an inviting target. Sometimes us gringos let our guards down on vacation or think that Mexico City is like the rest of Mexico, which is usually very safe. So, if you keep your guard up and don't do anything that you wouldn't do in, say, the Southside of Chicago, you should be very safe.

[Derrick]

Once again, I dont agree. You will find many many places. Also in central Mexico City. Every colonia has its places. One better then the other. Dont behave like a typical tourist. Get your information before you go and just behave normal. Dont ask taxi drivers or hotel receptionists. This forum is ideal to get all the info you need. A US citizen or not, you will be absolutely fine.

Middle ground for mongers not from Mexico city are escort services that charge above average (1000 pesos up) for the added value of security.
Yes, as it happens everywhere, there is a middle ground for locals, like here in my own city of Monterrey.

But as it is, for example here in Mty the Infinito and Matehuala are considered verboten to many locals, both being origin to many urban legends.

If you ask for example as an American at your 5 star hotel if you can go to the Infinito club they'll tell you "you can't go there, it is not safe", which is not true... they just don't know.

Thing is, in Mexico city there are other factors: the lower than middl ground clubs (and still lower), casa de citas, MPs are no where to be found in central Mexico City and yes, there are many, but anything outside the main part of the city, can be dangerous to Americans, cause there is a lot of antiAmerican feelings going on there, much more than in the rest of the country.

I have the link for an MP in the central city area:

http://www.extremesportspa.com/

Dunno is any of you guys reading this thread knows about it...

[Derrick]

I totally dont agree with some posts here, but hey, Mexico City might not be the best place but there are tons of possibilities. Also Mexico City is NOT as dangerous as everybody is thinking. As long as you take your precautions you will be absolutely fine. I am living in Mexico for a year now. It might be a city to hate or love but if you know you way around you will enjoy it. SW is of course more risky then the casa the citas. In those places you will be absolutely fine. I can give you a list with places but if you read back in the forum you will find a couple.

There are many many casa de citas. If you are willing to pay around a 600 or 700 pesos or so. In every single part of the city you will find these places. Not all of them are good and for sure not all of them give you good quality for the money. You just have to know where to go. Sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you will find nothing.

About Sullivan, take circuito interior and exit on Sullivan. You will find them at the beginning but remember only later in the evening. Once you get closer to Insurgentes you will not find anything. Before 9PM nothing is happening. Avoid fridays and saturdays because those days are too busy. 300 cars waiting in line to pick up a chica.

So you are right, it doesnt make sence because it is not true. I personally love Mexico City. As said it might not be the best place but it is still more then worth it. Maybe this info will help you. Enjoy your stay!

Where is Sullivan and what part are the Sw on?

I really appreciate the information, but it just doesn't make sense. In every part of mexico there are places to go, reasonably priced. The locals have to go somewhere, they can't pay U.S. prices. The economics of the city say that it is there. If you look at the shanty towns surrounding the city 200 or 300pesos would go a long way there. It seems that a few of them would try to make some money this way. The SW at La Merced are priced at what they should be.

I just don't believe the choices in D.F. are either a 250 peso girl at La Merced or a 2000 peso stripper or escort. There has to be loads of middle ground.

I hate to mention this but, if you can wade through the language and other BS, Nibu? says some things about massage parlors and other things south of Pino Suarez. Is he accurate?

Carlos, thanks for the safety tip. La Merced was the only place in all of Mexico I have ever worried for my safety. I am pretty good at being aware of my surroundings, watch out for groups of young men, and generally if it doesn't seem right I get to a populated area as quickly as possible.

[MonterreyDude]

Middle ground for mongers not from Mexico city are escort services that charge above average (1000 pesos up) for the added value of security.
Yes, as it happens everywhere, there is a middle ground for locals, like here in my own city of Monterrey.
But as it is, for example here in Mty the Infinito and Matehuala are considered verboten to many locals, both being origin to many urban legends.
If you ask for example as an American at your 5 star hotel if you can go to the Infinito club they'll tell you "you can't go there, it is not safe", which is not true... they just don't know.
Thing is, in Mexico city there are other factors: the lower than middl ground clubs (and still lower), casa de citas, MPs are no where to be found in central Mexico City and yes, there are many, but anything outside the main part of the city, can be dangerous to Americans, cause there is a lot of antiAmerican feelings going on there, much more than in the rest of the country.

I have the link for an MP in the central city area:

http://www.extremesportspa.com/

Dunno is any of you guys reading this thread knows about it...

Where is Sullivan and what part are the Sw on?

I really appreciate the information, but it just doesn't make sense. In every part of mexico there are places to go, reasonably priced. The locals have to go somewhere, they can't pay U.S. prices. The economics of the city say that it is there. If you look at the shanty towns surrounding the city 200 or 300pesos would go a long way there. It seems that a few of them would try to make some money this way. The SW at La Merced are priced at what they should be.
I just don't believe the choices in D.F. are either a 250 peso girl at La Merced or a 2000 peso stripper or escort. There has to be loads of middle ground.
I hate to mention this but, if you can wade through the language and other BS, Nibu? says some things about massage parlors and other things south of Pino Suarez. Is he accurate?

Carlos, thanks for the safety tip. La Merced was the only place in all of Mexico I have ever worried for my safety. I am pretty good at being aware of my surroundings, watch out for groups of young men, and generally if it doesn't seem right I get to a populated area as quickly as possible.

[Doubt98]

Where is Sullivan and what part are the Sw on?

I really appreciate the information, but it just doesn't make sense. In every part of mexico there are places to go, reasonably priced. The locals have to go somewhere, they can't pay U.S. prices. The economics of the city say that it is there. If you look at the shanty towns surrounding the city 200 or 300pesos would go a long way there. It seems that a few of them would try to make some money this way. The SW at La Merced are priced at what they should be.
I just don't believe the choices in D.F. are either a 250 peso girl at La Merced or a 2000 peso stripper or escort. There has to be loads of middle ground.
I hate to mention this but, if you can wade through the language and other BS, Nibu? says some things about massage parlors and other things south of Pino Suarez. Is he accurate?

Carlos, thanks for the safety tip. La Merced was the only place in all of Mexico I have ever worried for my safety. I am pretty good at being aware of my surroundings, watch out for groups of young men, and generally if it doesn't seem right I get to a populated area as quickly as possible.

[MonterreyDude]

Boystown = Zona Roja, Red distric.

Mill is quite correct...
and, Doubt, Mexico City is dangerous if you do not know where you are walking.... that is one of the reasons edgy night life has died there.
Mexico city is also famous for escorts and prostitutes that druged their customers. But drugging them in matter that either they would put them in a hospital or kill them out right.
No one investigated this kind of murders (one less john and things like that) till they did it to a couple of influential types.
Some street walkers will be carrying ice picks with them, to protect themselves and rob you too. The moment they get in the car they will just stick the pick in your leg.
And so on and so on...
A city of 30 million has 30,000 stories to tell per day.....

PS: Mil Just, I answered your PM, but you haven't read my reply. Not to worry, if you don't read it, I'll post it in the Morelia section.

Yes, Sullivan is still the place to go for SWs.

As for the casas de citas, I guess they were hot 10 years ago, in Zona Rosa mainly. Nowadays all we have are the strip clubs and the escort agencies.

What do you mean by boys towns?