Monterrey

[Member #3453]

SpongeBob,

The idea that you are a "phantom in the night" is a laughing riot, because as a gringo in the clubs I am automatically asked if I know the "the man who brings cookies" upon meeting anybody in the clubs. The amount of personal information available which you have either posted directly on the forums, or easily available for the cost of a couple of ladies drinks is unprecedented. You are one of the most famous and prolific patrons of Monterrey's commercial illicit sex district, an area of town so notorious that 99% of local guys are too scared to even take a [CodeWord140] there.

Fortunately you have a reputation of being a nice guy and being harmless, but should you ever become a target, the odds aren't in your favor. The bad guys are equipped to battle military and disposing a defenseless gringo without a trace would be an easy job. Mongering is inherently a social activity. It doesn't take much imagination to think of many scenarios where a monger could become a target, and could easily be the result of a misunderstanding where you did nothing wrong. What if a lady you're close to gets knocked up? Think they're going to wait around for the paternity tests and the court case, or maybe they just want revenge for deflowering their darling princess? Mexican justice.

I haven't seen much published about the subject, but it has always been my operating assumption that the various criminal syndicates are heavily involved in prostitution in Monterrey. That a large number of patrons are low level gang members. It is true pretty much everywhere so is probably a safe assumption about Monterrey also. A big portion of the women are drug users so you are two degrees from all sorts of drug dealers. With all that is known about the drug situation in Mexico, it just seems like playing with fire to willingly insert yourself right into that world.

You make a lot of assumptions, yet you really know nothing of me. You only know what I want you to know, and they only know what I want them to know. Remember that....You are speculating about me, based on details I've projected with respect to a persona that I created almost ten years ago, and perpetrated upon the clubs.

At that time, the risks associated with being recognized were not nearly as great as they are today. Suffice it to say that my reputation lingers in places that I no longer frequent, and with some girls and waiters that I rarely ever see.

Simply put, I don't do things that risk some kind of retaliatory reaction from individuals in the clubs. And, while it may seem that I am active in the clubs, my patronage of them has diminished considerably over the years compared to ten years ago. My activities in the clubs are not nearly as predictable these days, and my reputation live on in my absence. With respect to some kind of conspiracy that someone might want to perpetrate upon me, what most of them have is a memory of me, and very little opportunity to actually plan much of anything. My activities are not predictable.

I freely admit that I am a little more vulnerable than the average one time visitor due to my having some visibility in a very finite number of clubs. My reputation and "familiarity" lingers with some that rarely, if ever, actually still see me.

But, that is exactly my point when making recommendations to people visiting Monterrey for the first time, or even when advising the occasional visitor. The average visitor has no little or no recognition in the clubs, and risks even less than we do.

After all, they now associate you with me, whether you like it or not. Better not go, or you may be targeted as a friend of the Gringo.

Anyone can be targeted for criminal activity. And, with respect to Mexico, I do assume some risks as a result of my presence in Mexico, and due to the recognition factor in some of the bars, not because it is dangerous for the average visitor, but because my notoriety in the bars contradicts my preference to maintain a low key presence. And, even then, I am still infinitely safer than those that are immersed in Mexican society on a
day-to-day basis.

Remember, my own notoriety in the bars is a result of my patronage of those bars over a period of ten years, long before the dangers had risen to their current level in Mexico. My persona and reputation in the bars has been well established for many years. Reversing that trend for me is much more difficult than others heeding my advise to lay low.

[Dad Fun 555]

SpongeBob,

The idea that you are a "phantom in the night" is a laughing riot, because as a gringo in the clubs I am automatically asked if I know the "the man who brings cookies" upon meeting anybody in the clubs. The amount of personal information available which you have either posted directly on the forums, or easily available for the cost of a couple of ladies drinks is unprecedented. You are one of the most famous and prolific patrons of Monterrey's commercial illicit sex district, an area of town so notorious that 99% of local guys are too scared to even take a [CodeWord140] there.

Fortunately you have a reputation of being a nice guy and being harmless, but should you ever become a target, the odds aren't in your favor. The bad guys are equipped to battle military and disposing a defenseless gringo without a trace would be an easy job. Mongering is inherently a social activity. It doesn't take much imagination to think of many scenarios where a monger could become a target, and could easily be the result of a misunderstanding where you did nothing wrong. What if a lady you're close to gets knocked up? Think they're going to wait around for the paternity tests and the court case, or maybe they just want revenge for deflowering their darling princess? Mexican justice.

I haven't seen much published about the subject, but it has always been my operating assumption that the various criminal syndicates are heavily involved in prostitution in Monterrey. That a large number of patrons are low level gang members. It is true pretty much everywhere so is probably a safe assumption about Monterrey also. A big portion of the women are drug users so you are two degrees from all sorts of drug dealers. With all that is known about the drug situation in Mexico, it just seems like playing with fire to willingly insert yourself right into that world.

[Member #3453]

Again, for the millionth time, my contention has always been that Mexicanos, living in Monterrey, and forming social bonds and affiliations, not only with individuals, but also with many different private institutions, schools, government agencies, social organizations, banking affiliations, etc...are much more prominently on the radar than visiting Gringos, or Gringos living in Monterrey.

Due to this fact, the Mexicanos living in Monterrey have a much greater likelihood of being the victims of the violence and mayhem.

That has always been my contention. I have never disputed that for Mexican Nationals, that the potential for violence is significantly greater with respect to cartel violence and criminal victimization. Anyone that represents my position otherwise is being disingenuous with my representations. All these years of issuing recommendations, I have always qualified my statements that those recommendations are made to the benefit of visitors, and Gringo residents that are smart.

My recommendations with respect to visiting Monterrey, have always been directed toward Gringos, either Gringos visiting Monterrey, or Gringos living a low key existence in Monterrey, and not directed toward Mexican Nationals living in Monterrey, who should know the score, but seemingly often fail to actually prove it by revealing any details to back up their own recommendations with respect to the purpose of the ISG.

My comments concerning the abduction of individuals, and some of the targeting that goes on with respect to criminal activities, most recently this incident in Bario Antiqua for example, just confirms my theory that Mexicanos are their own worst enemies, sometime innocently and through no fault of their own, at least with respect to exposure to the dangers through their inclusion into the fabric of Mexican society. That is what escalates their danger level significantly, their membership in Mexican society.

We Gringos, Gringo residents of Monterrey, or Visitors, have little or no inclusion into Mexican society compared to the Mexican National, and we enjoy a significant insulation from that single fact. We also suffer the exclusion that comes with that reality. But, our goals and objectives don't adversely affect our mongering, just our legitimate social lives. But, not to the extent that we really care too much. Our priorities are what they are.

After all, we are not a part of Mexican society, and we do not appreciate what we are apparently missing. What we don't know, and haven't had the pleasure of experiencing with respect to the positive aspects of inclusion in Mexican society doesn't adversely affect us...Ignorance is bliss.

Mexican Nationals have a much greater degree of exposure to the violence that exists. In my own case for example, I do have a very small group of friends and acquaintances. I am simply not on the radar in Monterrey like I would otherwise be on the radar were I a life long resident of Monterrey, nor am I on the radar in Mexico to the extent that I am on the radar in the US, where I grew up, and where I still have significant ties to Gringo society.

In Mexico, I do not fraternize with a large circle of friends, I have no institutional affiliations, I have little or no contact with government, other than application for Visas, I have no bank account, deal in cash, etc...That's why I say that visitors, and/or Gringo residents, if they are wise, are significantly less likely to be targeted by the cartels if they remain low key.

Mexican Nationals, especially those that have lived in Monterrey for long periods of time, and have all the social and institutional connections to Mexican society, they are the ones at a considerably higher risk of being victimized. I freely admit that, and I was one of the first ones to point it out, even as my detractors like to misrepresent my position by calling me naive.

I am criticized that I must be naively denying the potential danger, and the large numbers of victims of the violence. Because, according to them, I don't live in Monterrey, and don't know large groups of people here...

They say that I must be a casual visitor to the area with little or no appreciation for what is really going on.
But, it isn't a matter of my knowing large statistical numbers of people that have been victimized. I choose not to know large groups of people, or immerse myself in Mexican society, and for a very good reason, out of self preservation.

Just because I make recommendations for visitors that they're subject to very slight danger levels by visiting the clubs, doesn't mean that I don't understand the dangers inherent in Mexican society as a whole for Mexicanos.

The reality is that there is a much lower likelihood that a very low key Gringo, living in Monterrey, or a visitor to Monterrey, with little or no quantifiable social connections to what is undeniably a corrupt society, will fall victim to that same corruption that plagues the Mexicano that is socially and institutionally immersed in the fabric of that corrupt and dangerous society.

You stick out like a sore thumb, and I am a phantom in the night, and so are visitors to Monterrey, if they're smart. That is the distinction!

So, in your zeal to discredit my interpretation of what is and is not safe, apparently out of hatred and jealousy, you eagerly attempt to distort my published assessment of things as it relates to how things really are within the context I've described.

Things are relatively safe for a vast majority of visitors to Monterrey, especially infrequent Gringo visitors with little or no affiliations to expose them to the dangers, as compared to the average Mexican citizen who has all the connections to what can only be described as a corrupt and criminally oriented society.

My detractors, in their zeal to contradict me, fail to think logically, actually agreeing with me more often than not. But, they miss the point of my recommendations to others, and what I predicate those recommendations on, that those recommendations are not directed toward Mexican Nationals living in Monterrey.

I know my own strategy, and my relative low key existence compared to the average Mexican, that it significantly insulates me and other visitors as well from what plagues the fabric of Mexico society. The immersion of Mexican citizens into a corrupt society is what plagues them, while simultaneously insulating "us," to a certain extent, at least to an extent whose risk is justified with respect to dividends.

Someone once accused me of knowing all of (7) people in Monterrey. Well, I know many more than that, but I am aloof, distant, close to the vest, cautious, and private with all others. My own strategy with respect to protecting myself is to limit contacts socially, to limit contact with government, to limit institutional contact and affiliations, to limit financial reporting (ie: banking), and to limit as much exposure to Mexican society as possible.

This is not something the average Mexican has the luxury of doing, nor do they want to engage in that kind of discipline to remain safe, even if they could. It is very hard to disappear in your own ethnic society, nor would most people want to do it.

I realize that. But, I also realize that the average visitor, and for most wise Gringos living in Mexico, it is the best strategy. And, it is also what protects the average visitor from the dangers that expose the average Mexicano, and this must be what makes my detractors so incredulous at hearing my recommendations.

My recommendations on ISG concerning whether to monger here, Mr. Mexicano, are not directed at you. They are for the average visitor, and the wise Gringo living in Monterrey. I am sorry you're a victim of your own society, the corruption, the criminal acts, the thievery, etc...Truly, I am very sorry.

But, I also know that by my having the ability to insulate myself from your world, I am protected more thoroughly. That is my recommendations to visitors as well. Stay low key, and you will be fine...

[Member #3453]

First, the means by which a group can perpetrate civil war is entirely dependent on their ability to procure weapons.

Some blame the supposed "leniency" of US guns laws for the weapons being discovered in the hands of the cartel members, and independent criminals.

It has now been revealed that $177,000,000 worth of military grade weapons were "SOLD" to the "MEXICAN GOVERNMENT," authorized by the US State Department at the request of the Mexican government, not the types of weapons manufactured or even made available for civilian consumption. Of that $177,000,000, the Mexican government can not account for the disposition of those weapons once they were received.

The $177,000,000 were military grade weapons, ie: machine guns, grenades, etc..., which consists of the majority of the kinds of weapons that are being found in the possession of cartel members, and in the possession of independent criminals with no cartel affiliation, (ie:freelancers).

These are not the types of weapons consumed by the US civilian market, and regulated by the Gun Control Act of 1968, the regulations that govern civilian sales of firearms in the USA.

Millions upon millions of additional dollars have been sold to the Mexican government via South American governments (ie: Guatemala, etc...), a number of European Governments, and the Chinese government, hundreds of millions of dollars in total, consisting mostly of surplus armaments, all of which were sold at the request of the "MEXICAN GOVERNMENT" for their own arsenals.

WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS IT TO ACCOUNT FOR THE DISPOSITION AND SECURITY OF THOSE WEAPONS ONCE THE WEAPONS ARE SOLD AT THE REQUEST OF THE "MEXICAN GOVERNMENT," AND DELIVERED INTO THE HANDS OF MEXICAN GOVERNMENT OFFICALS?

This is about rampant wide scale organized, and many individual disorganized, criminal enterprises, perpetrated by a statistically small number of professional criminals, and a disproportionately high number of average Mexican Citizens, Soldiers, Mexican Government Officials, and corrupt Mexican Military Officials, etc...all engaged in criminal activity for profit, and in some cases at the lower level, for their very survival.

The arms flowing into the hands of criminals in Mexico are NOT coming solely from a civilian US market through a corrupt firearms registration system as has been accused. The numbers of those weapons finding their way into Mexico is infinitesimally small, and of NO CONSEQUENCE WHAT SO EVER.

The political rhetoric aimed at blaming US leniency for the availability of weapons in Mexico is ludicrous at best. The US civilian firearms market has not substantially contributing to the illicit arms problem in Mexico. The instance of 1000-2000 weapons that the ATF permitted to be sold to straw party purchasers by US gun dealers along the border, with the permission of the inept Obama Justice Department, are totally and completely inconsequential statistically.

Now we know that those weapons are coming into Mexico at the request of the Mexican Government, and sold on the black market to the cartels and independent criminals by a huge disproportionately high number of dishonest, traitorous Mexican Government Officials, and low level government workers having control of the arms inventory itself.

We have always known that Mexicans themselves are fueling the destabilization Mexico, while Mexicans point the finger at the US, blaming the US with their anti gun political rhetoric. But, Mexicans aren't doing it for some political "civil war" kind of motivation. They are doing it for economic reasons, and not to acquire "power," or for organized political reasons. Undoubtedly, there are those desiring to destabilize the government to acquire their own brand of power. But, they could not prevail without the complicit cooperation of a disproportionately high number of average citizens joining the mahem for economic reasons.

That is criminal enterprise for profit, and TREASON...But, it is NOT a civil war...Criminal Enterprise is out of control within Mexico, and with a disproportionately high government and civilian participation for "profit."

Mexico is on the road to potential civil war...but, they are not there yet. If civil war develops, it will be because the a greater proportion of average Mexican citizens feel they are so deprived of economic opportunity that they receive greater support from the criminal enterprises than they do from the opportunity provided by government policies.

If an ever increasing number of average Mexicans continue to feel a greater sense of security through their participation in crimes, and support of organized crime, then government will become a failed state.

If government fails to make opportunity available, and it fails to discipline the traitors within their own ranks through trial and eventual execution of the guilty, then civil war will likely develop over time.

[El Cazador]

My girlfriend has been a sobbing wreck the last couple of days because her friend was murdered in a famous night club in Barrio Antiguo over the weekend. Grisly type of murder which only happens in Mexico where they took away the body and nobody knows where it is. Now everybody is attending candlelight vigils in memory. Thought I read a statistic recently that said something like 1 in 7 Mexicans knows somebody killed in the conflict. Yes I know in your 30 years of going to Monterrey you never met anybody affected by the conflict. Do you know more than 7 people there? Maybe you should buy a lottery ticket. Or maybe it is all just an conspiracy by international media.

So you have examples of people being prosecuted for smuggling personal quantities of Viagra into US without a prescription? Please provide reference, I am really interested. Please cite just one case.

There are plenty of blogs and other forums about this subject if you are interested. To me the law is clear and unambiguous that is legal to import personal quantities of Viagra into US (or anywhere) without a prescription. I am comfortable and confident doing it, it is not a big deal to me at all. Clearly you are not convinced, so best that you avoid it. Since you are the type who wants everything guaranteed and spelled out in every detail, clearly it is in your interest to just acquire Viagra through conventional means and not taking risk. Nothing wrong with that, but please don't project your overly cautious advice onto bigger risk takers.

The barrio antiguo no longer make the business because the cartels come in and make all the owners pay the protection money. The reason why is empty on the weekends. Everybody that live here in Monterrey know somebody that is to be kidnap, extorted, beaten, or lose the money to the cartels. When you read about the people shot in front of the store like what happen two weeks ago in the cafe iguana it is because they deny to pay the protection money. A casa de cita owner is killed two months before in front of his business probable for this reason. I know a casa de cita owner that was badly beaten last year because he don't pay the money. He lose half his ear and eye and in the hosiptal for three weeks with also a broken arm and leg.

This subject of this war is no longer drugs. This is about power. This is a civil war.

I would take the avise of some foolish americans that don't actually live here with a grain of salt even if the person claim to come here for thirty years.

[Dad Fun 555]

Holy shit, she freaked out, literally screaming talking 100 mph. UNDECLARED FRUIT, THAT IS ILLEGAL, THAT IS A SERIOUS VIOLATION, THAT IS A FINE, set us to secondary.

Pulled in to secondary, guy there asks what's up, told her the lady set us because we forgot we had some fruit. He asked "that's it", I said yes sir, he opens ice chest, takes mangoes and throws them in trash can. His next words?

"You guys get out of here, have a good trip."

I personally know folks (non-US citizens) who were threatened with deportation (denial of entry into the country) for having a single undeclared orange, or ham sandwich in their carry on. I have never heard of anybody denied entry for bringing declared non-controlled medication without a prescription (probably virtually every non-citizen / resident visitor has this when they enter) , maybe it has happened but I have never heard of it.

[Dad Fun 555]

many foreign visitors are not the ones getting gunned down. according to the us state dept over 5 million us citizens visit mexico each year. last year a little over a 100 were killed, and about 70 americans remain missing from the last several years. it is thus impossible that many tourists are getting gunned down in narco violence.

even if it is just 1 over the past millenimum, it is still higher than the total number of individuals prosecuted for importing personal quantities of viagra into us without a prescription (zero).

words like "generally" and "usually" as pertaining to us customs practices do not provide 100% proof against you getting in trouble for not declaring rxn drugs. i agree few if any people get into serious trouble for bringing in viagra or other harmless drugs undeclared without a rxn. however, this will not protect you against them taking your time and your merchandise. what are you going to do if they say no and take it? nothing if you are smart. a supervisor won't do much in front of you and the agent if you are having problems unless the agent is way out of line. they will maintain a united front. crossing back from tijuana to san diego, i asked about viagra and the agent assured me you need a rxn or they will take it. this is only one agent speaking but still. just don't complain on here is you get into trouble if they want to make an example out you which they can at any point.

i wouldn't call having something seized "getting in trouble". customs can seize whatever they want for further review before it's cleared but that doesn't mean there was any suspiscion of wrongdoing. it is just one of the facts of life about crossing an international border. they can also xray your stomach and conduct a full cavity search. if you don't like it then don't cross the border. whether or not it's worth fighting for your $20 bottle of maxifort back may depend on the value of your time.

note that i never said anything about "undeclared". in the dozens of time i have imported viagra / maxifort into us, i always fully declared it. of course if you fail to declare something they have every right to confirep001e it. whether it is a banana, or a case of codeine. it is the folks who don't declare that get into trouble.

it is disappointing to hear that there are some folks who will let customs seize their property without ever contesting it. it just makes it easier for them to keep doing it in the future if people don't put up a fight.

a younger solo man carrying viagra illegally is a better poster child for prosecution than an elderly couple returning from abroad. also, i have had nonscheduled clomid seized by customs via mail order. they took it and sent the empty packages with a note saying i can contest the seizure and provided a case number. no way was i going to contest. in contrast, my friend had his testosterone ethanate injections seized but not his accompanying clomid. again they provided a letter and a case number but as expected didn't follow up on it. these were the only times out of many orders however.

was it properly declared? as i said above, if you don't properly declare something then of course it has a chance to be seized because you are not following the rules. also i understand the rules differ for mail order vs personally carrying across the border. i thought that mail order was not generally accepted due to the commercial nature (they don't want foreign pharmacies to be deal directly with residents). my experience is in carrying into us personally and in dozens of times it has never been seized.

[Dad Fun 555]

You know another issue occurs to me as well, and that is the potential for problems with respect to entry from the US to another country without a valid prescription. Try getting away with some of the things people do on a regular basis and think nothing of it, stuff that we might otherwise consider minor virtually meaningless infractions. Try it in a place like Singapore for example. They will frickin' execute you in short order for drug violations, cane you for graffiti on the walls, spitting gum on the sidewalk, or missing the trash container with your gum wrapper.

As I wrote earlier in the thread, I have brought Mexican generic Viagra (Maxifort) not into just US but about 10 different countries, and never had a problem. As I said, I prefer it to generics available in Asia and elsewhere. Of course in the cases where I have been thoroughly searched, they weren't looking for medications. The list of controlled substances is fairly standardized internationally. Maybe there is some country where Viagra is banned but generally the laws medications are relatively lax internationally.

Any country would have to be pretty gutsy politically to prosecute a foreigner for attempting to import personal quantities of Viagra without a prescription. It would be a horrible diplomatic move and it wouldn't stand up to international scrutiny. If it came to that it would probably be a case where you were of an enemy nationality, they didn't like you, and they couldn't find anything else to throw at you.

Ironically the only case of I've heard of folks getting into trouble for having Viagra without a prescription is on local police shakedowns in the various red light diatribe in northern Mexico.

[Bbond]

two incidents i have experienced with cbp, not medicine related:

once driving back from juarez with a friend. we both had a quart of liquor to declare, and one small bottle we had forgotten about in the glove box.

well on that day they decided to open the glove box, and there it was, holy shit, smugglers. set to secondeary, car searched completely. we were taken inside for a background investigation,

maybe and hour later they came back and said instead of the penality they were going to allow us to pay the duty on the small bottle. i asked what the duty was, $1. 17,

i aked what the penality would have been, confirep001ion. nice work cbp, stopped a couple smugglers, made $1. 17 for your efforts.

another time was coming back from mazatlan with wife and kids. driving a pick-up truck with a camper shell. had an ice chest setting in the very back of the truck box, for easy access to cold drinks and food.

female cbp officer ask what we were bringing back, i said nothing to declare. she walked back and opened the ice chest, there was 3 small mangoes we had forgotten to remove, not hidden, right there easily seen when.

holy shit, she freaked out, literally screaming talking 100 mph. undeclared fruit, that is illegal, that is a serious violation, that is a fine, set us to secondary.

pulled in to secondary, guy there asks what's up, told her the lady set us because we forgot we had some fruit. he asked "that's it", i said yes sir, he opens ice chest, takes mangoes and throws them in trash can. his next words?

"you guys get out of here, have a good trip."

[Member #3453]

words like "generally" and "usually" as pertaining to us customs practices do not provide 100% proof against you getting in trouble for not declaring rxn drugs.

there you go. these are the kinds of stories i have been hearing from mongers for the last thirty years with regard to the border as it relates to bringing meds in from foreign countries without a prescription. most of them haven't ended up in jail, or had anything terribly serious happen to them that i recall hearing about. but, none the less, the "potential" does exist. after all, if they can legally confirep001e it, they can legally "push you around," figuratively speaking.

and, for me, it isn't only just a matter of our risking being prosecuted necessarily. it's more than just that. from many worldly destinations, it can sometimes literally take an entire day to travel between the us and almost anywhere, even cities within the us to mexico.

air travel is sooooo fucked up these days that the hassles with respect to air travel are huge these days. the days of just jumping on an airplane, no security, etc...are gone. so, the "hassle factor," at least for me, is mostly the issue, and the potential for actually having legal problems is way down on the list of concerns.

as you said, we probably would not have anything happen other than to have our stuff confirep001ed. but...if they can and do confirep001e it, which i have heard over the years is more often the practice, they can do more to you if they decide to. if they consider it contraband, and especially if you are trying to hide it, then they might decide to make an example out of you, and let the other guy pass without so much as a harsh word. if they consider it contraband, and you try to hide it rather than declaring it, there are statutes they can hang their hats on if they want to. if you just say, "oh, sorry, forget it was in there...hardy har har" how many bs stories do you think they've heard that they're going to believe your line of bs?

and, hey, they get all "tweaked" even if you have your cell phone on while you're waiting in the frickin line...what might they do if you push them over the edge trying to bring what they might construe as contraband into the us. and, if you do declare it, and they confirep001e it, it's like throwing money down the toilet.

you know another issue occurs to me as well, and that is the potential for problems with respect to entry from the us to another country without a valid prescription. try getting away with some of the things people do on a regular basis and think nothing of it, stuff that we might otherwise consider minor virtually meaningless infractions. try it in a place like singapore for example. they will frickin' execute you in short order for drug violations, cane you for graffiti on the walls, spitting gum on the sidewalk, or missing the trash container with your gum wrapper.

it doesn't take much to provoke a lower level government worker, many of which are continually dealing with the unfair internal politics of large bureaucratic agencies on an hourly basis, to enjoy and even relish having some pitiless control over what they consider to be their adversaries is very tempting, and almost therapeutic for some.

the culture with law enforcement is always "them" or "us." that's a huge disadvantage for those of us that are "us" and not "them."

[Duke Of Pussy]

Even the supervisory officer of US Customs says that it "it is really not a problem" to import non-controlled medication into US without a prescription for personal use. Really, what more permission do you need? The blanket "you need a prescription for every medication" you see in travel guides is more of generic, better safe than sorry, advice targeted at newbie travelers who do not understand the legal subtleties of importing medication, and the various classifications. Once you familiarize yourself with what documentation is needed for classification of medication you are importing you can find out if it is needed for the particular medication of interest. Sometimes you see cases of people getting busted for steroids or narcotics on the border, but given the ease even in Mexico of obtaining Viagra there must be orders of more magnitude if Viagra imports compared to controlled medications. Yet there has never been a legal case against an individual for importing personal quantities of Viagra into US.

Your chance of dying as an innocent bystander in a narco shootout in Mexico (happens to dozens, if not hundreds, of individuals. Many of them foreign visitors. Every year) is a lot higher than getting prosecuted by US for importing personal quantities of Viagra. That has never happened. Yes maybe there is a chance some clueless law enforcement agents and prosecutor would bring it to trial. That has never happened before, so I guess the chance of it happening based in historical frequency of past events is lower than the airplane you arrived in getting bombed out by terrorists, or getting hit by lightning. The worse case practical scenario probably is an agent on his first 15 minutes of the job thinks he is making a big smuggling bust. But talking to a supervisor should get you on your way quickly. Of course, if crossing a border brings butterflies to your stomach, then by all means just purchase Viagra locally. That's what I would probably advise for most folks. It doesn't save you anything if it just brings you stress.

Many foreign visitors are not the ones getting gunned down. According to the US State Dept over 5 million US citizens visit mexico each year. Last year a little over a 100 were killed, and about 70 Americans remain missing from the last several years. It is thus impossible that many tourists are getting gunned down in narco violence.

Words like "generally" and "usually" as pertaining to US customs practices do not provide 100% proof against you getting in trouble for not declaring rxn drugs. I agree few if any people get into serious trouble for bringing in viagra or other harmless drugs undeclared without a rxn. However, this will not protect you against them taking your time and your merchandise. What are you going to do if they say no and take it? Nothing if you are smart. A supervisor won't do much in front of you and the agent if you are having problems unless the agent is way out of line. They will maintain a united front. Crossing back from Tijuana to San Diego, I asked about Viagra and the agent assured me you need a rxn or they will take it. This is only one agent speaking but still. Just don't complain on here is you get into trouble if they want to make an example out you which they can at any point. A younger solo man carrying viagra illegally is a better poster child for prosecution than an elderly couple returning from abroad. Also, I have had nonscheduled Clomid seized by customs via mail order. They took it and sent the empty packages with a note saying I can contest the seizure and provided a case number. No way was I going to contest. In contrast, my friend had his testosterone ethanate injections seized but not his accompanying clomid. Again they provided a letter and a case number but as expected didn't follow up on it. These were the only times out of many orders however.

There is no fool proof way in Mexico or the US to have Viagra without prescription, but I agree the risks are very low. I personally like the mail order route to save all the money as the pills this way are only about $2 a piece. And I get by on quarter or half tabs of viagra so a $40 order lasts me forever.

[MonterreyDude]

"But, I think yes, grey area, some CBP agents just do their job and don't look to hassle anyone unnecessarily, others will go out of their way to be a pain in the butt, just because they can."

Well said. Exactly the point.

They will do it because they can. Same as in Mexico.

And this is becoming more common in the US as the years pass and more radical laws are passed in your country.

Well, in that particular link, find this statement:

"So long as it is not a controlled substance and is meant for personal use, there really is no issue with that," says the USA Customs and Border Protection's Cirillo.

But, I think yes, grey area, some CBP agents just do their job and don't look to hassle anyone unnecessarily, others will go out of their way to be a pain in the butt, just because they can.

[Dad Fun 555]

Even the supervisory officer of US Customs says that it "it is really not a problem" to import non-controlled medication into US without a prescription for personal use. Really, what more permission do you need? The blanket "you need a prescription for every medication" you see in travel guides is more of generic, better safe than sorry, advice targeted at newbie travelers who do not understand the legal subtleties of importing medication, and the various classifications. Once you familiarize yourself with what documentation is needed for classification of medication you are importing you can find out if it is needed for the particular medication of interest. Sometimes you see cases of people getting busted for steroids or narcotics on the border, but given the ease even in Mexico of obtaining Viagra there must be orders of more magnitude if Viagra imports compared to controlled medications. Yet there has never been a legal case against an individual for importing personal quantities of Viagra into US.

Your chance of dying as an innocent bystander in a narco shootout in Mexico (happens to dozens, if not hundreds, of individuals. Many of them foreign visitors. Every year) is a lot higher than getting prosecuted by US for importing personal quantities of Viagra. That has never happened. Yes maybe there is a chance some clueless law enforcement agents and prosecutor would bring it to trial. That has never happened before, so I guess the chance of it happening based in historical frequency of past events is lower than the airplane you arrived in getting bombed out by terrorists, or getting hit by lightning. The worse case practical scenario probably is an agent on his first 15 minutes of the job thinks he is making a big smuggling bust. But talking to a supervisor should get you on your way quickly. Of course, if crossing a border brings butterflies to your stomach, then by all means just purchase Viagra locally. That's what I would probably advise for most folks. It doesn't save you anything if it just brings you stress.

[Bbond]

Grey Area Alert.

Traveling with medicine? Carry a prescription.

http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-tr-healthy16jul16

As I always say. Let's see the link?

Benefit of the doubt.

Well, in that particular link, find this statement:

"So long as it is not a controlled substance and is meant for personal use, there really is no issue with that," says the USA Customs and Border Protection's Cirillo.

But, I think yes, grey area, some CBP agents just do their job and don't look to hassle anyone unnecessarily, others will go out of their way to be a pain in the butt, just because they can.

[Member #3453]

My girlfriend has been a sobbing wreck the last couple of days because her friend was murdered in a famous night club in Barrio Antiguo over the weekend. Grisly type of murder which only happens in Mexico where they took away the body and nobody knows where it is.

My sincerest condolences to your girlfriend. Really, it is very tragic, and I mean that sincerely...

But, again, the circumstances you describe have very little to so with the seedy side of town where we like to frequent the strip clubs. The circumstances of the crime suggest that the victim was not just a random, innocent patron of a night club.

Logically, random murders in a night club, where the body(s) are carted off by the perpetrators suggests that the individuals involved were "TARGETED." They aren't targeted for no reason. But, someone specifically murdered in a night club whose body is carted off suggests something more than a random act of violence for the sake of robbery, etc...Certainly, in the US, there are constant reminders that collateral damage happens to innocent bystanders...there are nightly news stories in the US of crimes that are just as heinous.

Most of the perpetrators of these heinous crimes in Mexico lately, aren't pros, and many of them aren't particularly intelligent with respect to being caught for their crimes. A pro doesn't bring the DNA from the scene of the crime with him.

My contention with respect to the violence has been that mongers are not in the same kind of danger as persons that have ties to cartels, or are themselves engaging in criminal acts, other than to potentially be collateral damage from the carelessness of these want to be gangster types acting out their own perceived stereotype behavior, or the army and police as they sometimes carelessly display a disregard for public safety in fighting the gangsters.

I am not in denial that the violence exists, just that the average monger who is not engaging in cartel affiliations, or criminal activities, (ie: an innocent, relatively obscure mongering visitor to the area) , is not at any particular added risk by visiting the clubs on the "seedy" side of Monterrey.

An incident in Bario Antiqua doesn't relate to what goes on at Villagran and Carlos Salazar. I have heard of numerous issues at the nightclubs of Bario Antigua. I would not recommend going there late at night. Frankly, that's where the high rolling gangster types are, spreading their money around, playing the big shot.

Most of their type that are frequenting the upscale establishments in Bario Antiqua aren't particularly interested in rubbing elbows with low class factory worker who doesn't have two pesos to rub together, not enough money to take girls up for a privado, but have to sit around the outskirts of the stage to cop a feel!

There certainly are gang members in the clubs around Villagran and Carlos Salizar, but those areas, while seemingly seedy, and seemingly ripe for being a hot bed of potentially dangerous activity, aren't, statistically. Bario Antigua, IS, statistically...

With respect to the media, they sensationalize everything for profit! Everywhere, the US, Mexico, EVERYWHERE!

My point is that through the sensationalizing heinous crimes, they encourage, and often perpetuate, the very worst offenders in a society of miscreants that crave media attention, and notoriety, the wanna be's who think that's what professional criminals do, and want to exhibit the stereotype by conducting what they perceive is the behavior that will gain them entry into the club. These miscreants have more money than they've ever had in their entire short lives, they live for today, and they would gladly trade 2 years of living large for what might otherwise be the remaining 60 years of their lives.

With respect to my criticism of media's role, most of the violence is NOT cartel business, but freelancers behaving like they think they have to behave to be the wanna be's they crave being. Their behavior is the result of the HYPE perpetrated by sensationalized media coverage as these gangster wanna be's conduct themselves in sync with what they perceive is the behavior of high rolling criminal types, a stereotype perpetrated by media in an effort to package their coverage, and sell more product, a vicious, and self promoting, self perpetuating of the stereotype they created for profit.