Monterrey

[Dad Fun 555]

You're grasping at straws. Big deal. You walked into a bar, probably El Infinito, and a couple of waiters ask if you know "the guy" than comes in with cookies. Oh, that's a hell of a lot of information to go by.

The amount of information available about you from other mongers and from women you go with is voluminous, akin to a schoolgirl who updates her Facebook every 5 minutes with everything she thinks. You are either oblivious or in denial about this. In a gentleman's disgagreement I'm not going to reveal the specifics of such information, and I don't need you to "validate" it's veracity. I know what I know. Look you're a grown man with decades of experience in Monterrey and I don't question you have your own strategies to deal with the dangers of Monterrey, but the suggestion that you achieve this by keeping low profile is outright laughable. Unlike other mongers I don't really portend to have any street smarts at all, and I know I am entirely defenseless physically. I'm always amused by guys who think they're bullet proof by keeping an eye on their surroundings, but a motorcycle assassin or a roving gang of drug sniffing youths dispatched by someone watching you from the ninth floor of the building on the corner can nab you before can you can blink. I can't say that I have any elaborate strategy for avoiding danger beyond simply not going to places where danger is present. You have a very long history of attracting detractors, not just here and there, pretty much everyone who has posted on the forum for years. I can't pinpoint exactly why that is but after a certain point you have to start to wonder if it's something you're doing. I just hope that part of your personality does not rub off in your monger adventures, where it can turn into something a lot more serious that a little online feud.

[Dad Fun 555]

I also believe that most contributors on all the other forums within the ISG are Gringos, Farangs, or Expats, whatever you want to call them, the majority having deep roots in the USA. To me, that makes the ISG an English Speaking "US" forum regardless of where the owners are forced to hide their servers in order to insulate themselves from prosecution.

I don't think this is true. If you go to Thailand nowadays, probably only about 1 in 20 guys on the ground is from US (and almost all of those are living / working somewhere in Asia or Middle East). The majority of the guys coming are from Europe, Australia, and Japan, but guys come from all over: Russia, Korea, India, Middle East, even Africa.

If you think about it, it makes sense. Folks in US only get average of 2 weeks of vacation per year (compared with 6 weeks for European countries) , and with the US dollar in the toilet and the distance from US to prime mongering sites, Americans are not really on monger radar. It's pretty rare for someone in US to go to Thailand for a week or two vacation. Europeans have the ability to travel to there far more easily. Aside from Costa Rica, and Mexico border towns, my impression is that the most of the parts of the site are dominated by posters from Europe and from all over.

I don't think is single poster in Monterrey forum lives in US. If someone is coming to Monterrey from UK or from Singapore or wherever, they probably would check here. English language does not imply that it is US at all.

[Member #3453]

SpongeBob,

I don't think your "unpredictable" lifestyle in Monterrey really buys you as much as you think it is. If you become a target, it doesn't matter where you are: in a crowded restaurant, in a military convoy, in an underground bunker, wherever you are the bad guys would be able to track you down. Guys have tracked you down from info you posted on the forums, so I don't think the professionals who hunt down elusive rivals, would have much challenge. You claim to reside in Monterrey now, so does that mean you sleep under the same roof every night? (I haven't figured out if you actually do live in Monterrey now, or if you just say so on the forums in order to try to boost your credibility and maybe to elude people who might try to find you).

Your real only defense is in not becoming a target. Keep being nice to folks you meet in Monterrey, because I really don't think you realize how defenseless you would be if you ever became a target. I think the risk of a misunderstanding when regularly associating with the type of people who work in clubs where drug use flourishes, with ties to criminal syndicates, and with the illicit sexual intimacy the risk is non-negligible. The clubs themselves have not been venues for violence but I think there are a lot of dangerous people there, and mixing with them could be hazardous.

You say it's all in the past and that now you only go to different clubs, and talk to different people. Maybe so, but the sex underworld in Monterrey is not that big, so if you are still active it'd be tough to hide. Or maybe you don't go to clubs at all any more, which to me is an admission that you think the risk has become too high. I do believe the risk for visitors coming down for a few days is very low, but it is when you establish relationships and become a regular that you are more likely to encounter the types of problems which happen in Monterrey. It is perfectly possible to monger in stealth mode, but the manner in which you have operated is anything but stealthy.

You're grasping at straws. Big deal. You walked into a bar, probably El Infinito, and a couple of waiters ask if you know "the guy" than comes in with cookies. Oh, that's a hell of a lot of information to go by. And, they really know nothing else. The idea that by showing up in a strip club and showing a little kindness to a hand full of waiters, having no predictable routine by which any one of them can ever anticipate my next visit, I am going to somehow draw the attention of criminals that will indiscriminately, and with absolutely no motivation to benefit them, abduct and murder me, or anybody else, without their having some reasonable motivation that will benefit them criminally, is totally ludicrous.

Don't you think I watch my back, check for shadows, understand the underbelly of society better than to be so easily tracked by a bunch of shithead amateurs? I have more experience in my fingernail reading the streets than most other people have in their entire bodies. Do I drop my guard on occasion, sure. But, I don't do it often, and I'm perfectly comfortably with my abilities to protect myself, and watch my back.

I have no ties to their world other than my occasional and unpredictable visits to their strip club. I have no one within the clubs that knows the first thing about me. All they know is that I am a nice guy...Big Deal. They're going to abduct and murder me because I am a nice guy? How does that benefit them? There isn't a lot of money in murdering penniless nice guys. And, believe me, they all see me as penniless, and as a total waste of time with respect to my being a patron. If you really knew anything about me based on your conversations with them, you should know that. That's just the way I want it, and that's the persona I have projected for ten years.

I have a whole host of strategies I use to protect myself in Monterrey. But, I am too distrustful of some people on this forum to disclose the ways I protect myself, or to reveal too much about my own activities, and/or my personal living circumstances. And, as you are laughing over my being a phantom, I am more than the phantom than you are willing to give me credit. You know I exist, yet you really know NOTHING!!! To you, and everyone else, I am "Something apparently seen, heard, or sensed, but having no physical reality." I am Unspongebob, and identifiable only by a clandestine screen name with no other means by which anyone knows my true identity, just as I've planned it.

Too many have demonstrated their own dubious motivations toward me and others for me to be so foolish as to disclose within this forum, or on the ground in Monterrey, my personal circumstances.

I have NO more visibility than you do, or any of the rest of their regular patrons have, no more than when you walk into one of the clubs yourself and they recognize "YOU." They do not know me as Unspongebob, just the nice Gringo. Your logic defies logic, and your being totally speculative about me and my particulars.

With respect to it being soooo dangerous...Yeah, we might get another hurricane in Monterrey sometime, and yeah the river might fill up, and yeah I might drown in a taxi as Constitution gets washed away by an uncontrollable deluge of water from the mountains.

I guess the solution is to report nothing on ISG, cancel any trips to the clubs, don't live in Monterrey along with the 5 million other human beings that are living and breathing here this very minute, and not being murdered by the cartels, right?

Is that what you're after? Am I supposed to all of a sudden conclude that I am just pushing the envelope too far by showing a little kindness to a few lowly waiters, and a couple of MILFs in the clubs?

Let's see, would they show me any more mercy were I an SOB, and showed visible contempt for them?

Should I move back to the US, abandon the clubs, and the mongering lifestyle in Monterrey, so others can assume the roll of expert commentator, and spread all their BS commentary for their own disingenuous motivations, ones you have absolutely no clue about because you really don't know the origins of some of my detractors on ISG.

I know their game, their behaviors, their motivations, and their disingenuous treatment of others first hand. You side with them. I don't think you're a part of their group. But, you side with them none the less in the content of your comments concerning Monterrey.

You have no idea whom you are supporting with your comments. So, you see, I am much more knowledgeable about the realities on the ground in Monterrey than you give me credit, and certainly more so than you would ever guess in your wildest dreams.

Quite obviously some of them have absolutely no knowledge of the bar scene in Monterrey, not even after several of the legitimate regulars on here have asked them to comment with specifics?

Forget about it...the entire premise that I am somehow more vulnerable than anybody else is ridiculous, and by your showing up yourself in the clubs, your arguments only reveal your own hypocrisy, and possibly a disingenuous bias toward me personally. Your comments about me, and your speculation about my activities and circumstances in Monterrey offer absolutely nothing to the forum, and offer no reasonable advice to the average visitor that wants to monger in Monterrey.

Too dangerous for me, and everybody else, but you're going to be ok because...because of what?

Are you carrying weapons, knifes, AKs, what? Are you the head of a drug cartel, or are you a major bad spooky dude that is insulated from the mayhem through your own criminal affiliations?...Do you have some kind of guardian angel on your shoulder that will protect you from all this same mayhem you say awaits all the rest of "us," and especially me, just because I am nice to a few low level waiters that have worked the strip clubs for ten years! Are you nicer than I am to them that you believe they'll somehow leave you alone then?

Why do you feel compelled to accuse me of naivete in visiting the bars when I've been doing it for ten years, and have all the credibility you say I have with respect to being the most prolific monger on the planet with respect to Monterrey?

It would seen to me I would be in a much better position to survive the experience than just about anyone else then, you included.

[Member #3453]

Huh? As far as I know the site itself is based out of Argentina. I don't think any of the posters in the Monterrey forum specifically are from US. With the site's busiest destinations being Asia and Europe, I doubt more than a token number of participants from the overall site are from US. It is an international site, not a US site.

It is not a site populated with Spanish Speaking Mexicans, in other words. They have their own sites, and while some do read the ISG, it is a relatively new phenomenon. It is a site, or at least the Monterrey forum, is a forum populated by English Speaking Gringos from the US, not Mexico, and it always has been. Of course, that could change. I also believe that most contributors on all the other forums within the ISG are Gringos, Farangs, or Expats, whatever you want to call them, the majority having deep roots in the USA. To me, that makes the ISG an English Speaking "US" forum regardless of where the owners are forced to hide their servers in order to insulate themselves from prosecution.

[Member #3453]

Mexican Federal Police, army, marines do not carry AK-47's.

No, they carry fully automatic AR15s, made in America.

This is pure BS from the NRA:

The dollars sent to the Mexican Government with respect to military grade weapons is public record. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the NRA. That report was issued by Hillary Clinton's State Department. $177, 000, 000 sold to the government of Mexico, at their request, delivered to Mexican Government Officials that could not account for the whereabouts of that inventory.

Mexico buys from the US directly. They do not need to triangulate their deals.

Again: A sure sign that if Mexico would be buying from Asia would be the armament and every single piece of weapons and ordenance in the hands of Mexico comes from the US. Again: Why the hell would Mexico buy weapons from China if we have the US to the North!

I say again,"The arms flowing into the hands of criminals in Mexico are NOT coming solely from a civilian US market through a corrupt firearms registration system as has been accused. The numbers of those weapons finding their way into Mexico is infinitesimally small, and of NO CONSEQUENCE WHAT SO EVER."

And for your information, AK47s are NOT mass produced in the US. They are manufactured in what were formerly Russian States, Eastern European Countries like Romania, Bulagaria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, etc...and CHINA!!!

They are illegal to even import from China into the US, by order of Bill Clinton, and they can not be imported from Eastern Block Countries without their having to make significant modifications to their design so as to conform with the Gun Control Act of 1968.

The cartels, and other criminal syndicates, are getting AK47s from other sources, most likely through countries like Guatemala, Russia, Eastern Block Countries...Those countries are where the mass production of AK47s occurs in the world, and especially with respect to fully automatic AKs, which are illegal in the US. Simply put, they are smuggled in. They do not originate in Mexico from the US in great numbers through a corrupt US Gun Registration System, nor is the AK47s issued to US Military personnel.

Lets see the "infinitesimally small" numbers:

This represents 700 guns:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/26...-smuggle-ring/

This is "over" 300 guns.

http://www.kpho.com/news/26908225/detail.html

And this is the US allowing the sales of guns to Mexico via Fast and Furious BS.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...20039031.shtml

The "ifinitesimally small" numbres go way above 2000 weapons in less than 6 months. And these are the ones we know of.

The numbers ARE infinitesimally small...Look, the list price of an AK47 once modified to be legally imported into the US as a semi-automatic weapon is $459. 00 each, ok? That's list price. An AK47 is a cheap piece of crap, a good assault weapon, but cheap! So your 2000 guns, if they are AKs, amounts to $918,000. 00, most of which, if they were AKs, were permitted to enter Mexico as part of the stupid-assed Obama Administration's Justice Department Sting Operation spear headed by Eric Holder.

That really is an infinitesimal number of weapons in the big scheme of things, correct???

That is less than 6% of the total that was legally sent to the Government of Mexico at their request, $177,000,000 of legally sold weapons sold to Mexico by the State Department. If you research the expenditures for arms purchased by the Mexican Government, that $177,000,000 is probably infinitesimal in and of itself. But, you are talking about 6% of just the expenditure for arms by the Mexican Government made legally through the US.

The majority of illegal weapons entering Mexico do not come through ill-legitimate sources in the US... So,

I stand by what I said...of the amount in addition to the $1777,000,000 sold legally to the Mexican Government by the US State Department, there are Millions upon millions of additional dollars sold to the Mexican government via other countries, sold to the Mexican Government for the Mexican Government's Arsenals, weapons not manufactured in the US, weapons not issue to US Military personnel, and weapons not permitted to be imported into the US for sale to the civilian general public.

Some of what is recovered in Mexico in possession of the cartels is probably part of the $177, 000, 000 worth of arms sold legally to the Mexican Government by the US State Department. But, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with some kind of leniency loophole in US Gun Registration Requirements for average US citizens. It has more to do with corruption at every level of Mexican Government.

Some like to blame the Civilian Market in the US for all of Mexico's illegal guns, but where in the HELL is the $177,000,000 worth of LEGAL arms sold to the country of Mexico that are unaccounted for?

[Dad Fun 555]

What do you think this forum is other than a United States Forum?

Huh? As far as I know the site itself is based out of Argentina. I don't think any of the posters in the Monterrey forum specifically are from US. With the site's busiest destinations being Asia and Europe, I doubt more than a token number of participants from the overall site are from US. It is an international site, not a US site.

[Member #3453]

I never go to united stated foro and try to behave that I know everything because I do not.

What do you think this forum is other than a United States Forum? This is NOT a Mexican forum. I have every right, and am eminently qualified to comment on my experiences in Monterrey, and to give my perception of things as it relates to my experience in Monterrey. I don't comment to you about foot ball, or the price of tortillas. I am commenting on things I know about. You, on the other hand, comment on things you have absolutely NO knowledge of, trying to pass yourself off as some kind of expert on mongering in Monterrey. The truth hurts, and I feel sorry for you as well.

[MonterreyDude]

Let me point out one thing.

Mexican Federal Police, army, marines do not carry AK-47's.

This is pure BS from the NRA:

"Millions upon millions of additional dollars have been sold to the Mexican government via South American governments (ie: Guatemala, etc.) , a number of European Governments, and the Chinese government, hundreds of millions of dollars in total, consisting mostly of surplus armaments, all of which were sold at the request of the "MEXICAN GOVERNMENT" for their own arsenals."

This is not the Iran-Contra dealings.

Mexico buys from the US directly. They do not need to triangulate their deals.

Again: A sure sign that if Mexico would be buying from Asia would be the armament and every single piece of weapons and ordenance in the hands of Mexico comes from the US.

Again: Why the hell would Mexico buy weapons from China if we have the US to the North!

"The arms flowing into the hands of criminals in Mexico are NOT coming solely from a civilian US market through a corrupt firearms registration system as has been accused. The numbers of those weapons finding their way into Mexico is infinitesimally small, and of NO CONSEQUENCE WHAT SO EVER."

Lets see the "infinitesimally small" numbers:

This represents 700 guns:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/26...-smuggle-ring/

This is "over" 300 guns.

http://www.kpho.com/news/26908225/detail.html

And this is the US allowing the sales of guns to Mexico via Fast and Furious BS.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...20039031.shtml

The "ifinitesimally small" numbres go way above 2000 weapons in less than 6 months. And these are the ones we know of.

No of course not.

Weapons in Mexico do not come from the US.

First, the means by which a group can perpetrate civil war is entirely dependent on their ability to procure weapons.

Some blame the supposed "leniency" of US guns laws for the weapons being discovered in the hands of the cartel members, and independent criminals.

It has now been revealed that $177, 000, 000 worth of military grade weapons were "SOLD" to the "MEXICAN GOVERNMENT," authorized by the US State Department at the request of the Mexican government, not the types of weapons manufactured or even made available for civilian consumption. Of that $177, 000, 000, the Mexican government can not account for the disposition of those weapons once they were received.

The $177, 000, 000 were military grade weapons, ie: machine guns, grenades, etc, which consists of the majority of the kinds of weapons that are being found in the possession of cartel members, and in the possession of independent criminals with no cartel affiliation, (ie:freelancers).

These are not the types of weapons consumed by the US civilian market, and regulated by the Gun Control Act of 1968, the regulations that govern civilian sales of firearms in the USA.

Millions upon millions of additional dollars have been sold to the Mexican government via South American governments (ie: Guatemala, etc.) , a number of European Governments, and the Chinese government, hundreds of millions of dollars in total, consisting mostly of surplus armaments, all of which were sold at the request of the "MEXICAN GOVERNMENT" for their own arsenals.

WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS IT TO ACCOUNT FOR THE DISPOSITION AND SECURITY OF THOSE WEAPONS ONCE THE WEAPONS ARE SOLD AT THE REQUEST OF THE "MEXICAN GOVERNMENT," AND DELIVERED INTO THE HANDS OF MEXICAN GOVERNMENT OFFICALS?

This is about rampant wide scale organized, and many individual disorganized, criminal enterprises, perpetrated by a statistically small number of professional criminals, and a disproportionately high number of average Mexican Citizens, Soldiers, Mexican Government Officials, and corrupt Mexican Military Officials, etc. All engaged in criminal activity for profit, and in some cases at the lower level, for their very survival.

The arms flowing into the hands of criminals in Mexico are NOT coming solely from a civilian US market through a corrupt firearms registration system as has been accused. The numbers of those weapons finding their way into Mexico is infinitesimally small, and of NO CONSEQUENCE WHAT SO EVER.

The political rhetoric aimed at blaming US leniency for the availability of weapons in Mexico is ludicrous at best. The US civilian firearms market has not substantially contributing to the illicit arms problem in Mexico. The instance of 1000-2000 weapons that the ATF permitted to be sold to straw party purchasers by US gun dealers along the border, with the permission of the inept Obama Justice Department, are totally and completely inconsequential statistically.

Now we know that those weapons are coming into Mexico at the request of the Mexican Government, and sold on the black market to the cartels and independent criminals by a huge disproportionately high number of dishonest, traitorous Mexican Government Officials, and low level government workers having control of the arms inventory itself.

We have always known that Mexicans themselves are fueling the destabilization Mexico, while Mexicans point the finger at the US, blaming the US with their anti gun political rhetoric. But, Mexicans aren't doing it for some political "civil war" kind of motivation. They are doing it for economic reasons, and not to acquire "power," or for organized political reasons. Undoubtedly, there are those desiring to destabilize the government to acquire their own brand of power. But, they could not prevail without the complicit cooperation of a disproportionately high number of average citizens joining the mahem for economic reasons.

That is criminal enterprise for profit, and TREASON. But, it is NOT a civil war. Criminal Enterprise is out of control within Mexico, and with a disproportionately high government and civilian participation for "profit."

Mexico is on the road to potential civil war. But, they are not there yet. If civil war develops, it will be because the a greater proportion of average Mexican citizens feel they are so deprived of economic opportunity that they receive greater support from the criminal enterprises than they do from the opportunity provided by government policies.

If an ever increasing number of average Mexicans continue to feel a greater sense of security through their participation in crimes, and support of organized crime, then government will become a failed state.

If government fails to make opportunity available, and it fails to discipline the traitors within their own ranks through trial and eventual execution of the guilty, then civil war will likely develop over time.

[El Cazador]

You simplify the problem by giving credit to the cartels for what is primarily a crime problem due to wide spread corruption within the government, and among the people themselves, at all levels.

The entire system in Mexico is so corrupt that an unacceptable majority in the lower / middle classes, and an alarming portion of the upper / governing class, perpetuates the problem. And the beast feeds on it's own, that's all.

I spend huge amounts of time here. And, I choose my friends based on their credibility, exhibited over time, and their sincerity toward me, and others.

In Mexico, one has to be "SIGNIFICANTLY" discriminating when choosing friends. Not too many are even eligible. My friends have passed the test with flying colors.

In Mexico, there are simply too many people whose sole objective is to sabotage others if it gains them even as little as 5 pesos.

There are simply too many whose self serving motivations cancel out any sense of loyalty with respect to true friendship.

With friends like that who needs enemies.

Listen, don't worry so much about me. I choose my friends, and I am perfectly content. I don't really care in the least bit what some people, especially those who I am intimately familiar with regarding their dubious motivations, and whose sole objective is to screw others without any provocation, might think.

The primary motivation of some seems to be aimed at discrediting my perceptions of Mexico. But, while the reader may not be familiar with the affiliations and activities of some of my detractors, the offenders know that I am savvy to the scope of their activities and motivations.

Some Mexicanos are a part of the problem in Mexico, capitalizing on the mayhem, and not particularly caring that their country is being destroyed in the process. Unfortunately, an disproportionate percentage of Mexican society is engaged in profiteering. They don't care that their own activities are contributing to the demise of Mexico as we know it. They're perfectly content selling out their country by participating in, and / or promoting the mayhem in an effort to profit modestly from their own contribution, and / or through their complicit "do nothing" acceptance of how things are.

The only friends I see you have on this foro is the multinicks you mulitple personalities create last year when you make the argument with me and others. Many of these multinciks come to you defense and everyone here on this foro know these multinicks are you.

You insult monterrey and mexicans born and live here with you know everything atitude. I never go to united stated foro and try to behave that I know everything because I do not.

You appear to be the fool to everyone that live here in monterrey and mexico. I feel bad for you monterrey friend here on this foro as anyone that live here know that you are a fool. You insult and embarass when you speak.

[Member #3453]

The violence that happen in mexico is most all cartel

You simplify the problem by giving credit to the cartels for what is primarily a crime problem due to wide spread corruption within the government, and among the people themselves, at all levels.

And you mention pro. There is no need for pro or no-pro because nothing is to be done against the cartels. They are enforcing there own law and order and victimizing the people here. You insult us with your know everything atitude

The entire system in Mexico is so corrupt that an unacceptable majority in the lower/middle classes, and an alarming portion of the upper/governing class, perpetuates the problem. And the beast feeds on it's own, that's all.

You are not to be qualify to make the opinion of what is happen here in mexico or monterrey right now. I feel bad for your monterrey friend here on the foro because he live here and knows you say very foolish things.

I spend huge amounts of time here...and, I choose my friends based on their credibility, exhibited over time, and their sincerity toward me, and others.

In Mexico, one has to be "SIGNIFICANTLY" discriminating when choosing friends. Not too many are even eligible. My friends have passed the test with flying colors.

In Mexico, there are simply too many people whose sole objective is to sabotage others if it gains them even as little as 5 pesos.

There are simply too many whose self serving motivations cancel out any sense of loyalty with respect to true friendship.

With friends like that who needs enemies...

Nobody want to have a fool as the friend.

Listen, don't worry so much about me. I choose my friends, and I am perfectly content. I don't really care in the least bit what some people, especially those who I am intimately familiar with regarding their dubious motivations, and whose sole objective is to screw others without any provocation, might think.

The primary motivation of some seems to be aimed at discrediting my perceptions of Mexico. But, while the reader may not be familiar with the affiliations and activities of some of my detractors, the offenders know that I am savvy to the scope of their activities and motivations.

Some Mexicanos are a part of the problem in Mexico, capitalizing on the mayhem, and not particularly caring that their country is being destroyed in the process. Unfortunately, an disproportionate percentage of Mexican society is engaged in profiteering. They don't care that their own activities are contributing to the demise of Mexico as we know it. They're perfectly content selling out their country by participating in, and/or promoting the mayhem in an effort to profit modestly from their own contribution, and/or through their complicit "do nothing" acceptance of how things are.

[Dad Fun 555]

SpongeBob,

I don't think your "unpredictable" lifestyle in Monterrey really buys you as much as you think it is. If you become a target, it doesn't matter where you are: in a crowded restaurant, in a military convoy, in an underground bunker, wherever you are the bad guys would be able to track you down. Guys have tracked you down from info you posted on the forums, so I don't think the professionals who hunt down elusive rivals, would have much challenge. You claim to reside in Monterrey now, so does that mean you sleep under the same roof every night? (I haven't figured out if you actually do live in Monterrey now, or if you just say so on the forums in order to try to boost your credibility and maybe to elude people who might try to find you).

Your real only defense is in not becoming a target. Keep being nice to folks you meet in Monterrey, because I really don't think you realize how defenseless you would be if you ever became a target. I think the risk of a misunderstanding when regularly associating with the type of people who work in clubs where drug use flourishes, with ties to criminal syndicates, and with the illicit sexual intimacy the risk is non-negligible. The clubs themselves have not been venues for violence but I think there are a lot of dangerous people there, and mixing with them could be hazardous.

You say it's all in the past and that now you only go to different clubs, and talk to different people. Maybe so, but the sex underworld in Monterrey is not that big, so if you are still active it'd be tough to hide. Or maybe you don't go to clubs at all any more, which to me is an admission that you think the risk has become too high. I do believe the risk for visitors coming down for a few days is very low, but it is when you establish relationships and become a regular that you are more likely to encounter the types of problems which happen in Monterrey. It is perfectly possible to monger in stealth mode, but the manner in which you have operated is anything but stealthy.

[Member #3453]

With all that is known about the drug situation in Mexico, it just seems like playing with fire to willingly insert yourself right into that world.

And, let me just point out an inconsistency. And, I mean this with all sincerity, and I mean no malice or disrespect for pointing it out. Just a philosophical discussion, right?

It occurs to me that you do not even subscribe to your own advice if you attend the clubs yourself, enough to know the reputation of Unspongebob among them, and yet you still choose to patronize them, apparently enough that you have been questioned numerous times about our knowing each other.

You call attention to yourself just by being a Gringo, and draw even further attention to yourself, whether you think you are or not, by acknowledging you know of me. You are as recognizable in the clubs as I am therefore.

Why then, do you believe that you're not susceptible to the same dangers that you say I endure, and you say all mongers endure when they enter the clubs?

The difference between us is this...If I truly believed the clubs were as dangerous as you say you believe they are, I would not patronize them at all. Yet, you're right there in the barrel of snakes yourself.

You do not believe your own rhetoric or you would not be in the clubs. And, if you really do believe all your rhetoric, do you think you're untouchable? Do you think that just because I am recognized by a few hungry waiters and few MILFS that remember me from five years ago that I am somehow more vulnerable than you are, or that I am more vulnerable than all the hombres that frequent these bars on a much more regular basis than I do?

If you frequent the bars enough times to be asked if you know me, and you don't apparently have the trepidation that you say we all should have because we're supposedly just two steps away from offending hordes of drug dealers and their girlfriends, why are you there???

You are the one advocating that we all stay home due to the insurmountable dangers, not me. See how inconsistent your comments are with respect to your own behavior? Your own behavior betrays your true opinion...

[El Cazador]

My sincerest condolences to your girlfriend. Really, it is very tragic, and I mean that sincerely.

But, again, the circumstances you describe have very little to so with the seedy side of town where we like to frequent the strip clubs. The circumstances of the crime suggest that the victim was not just a random, innocent patron of a night club.

Logically, random murders in a night club, where the body (s) are carted off by the perpetrators suggests that the individuals involved were "TARGETED." They aren't targeted for no reason. But, someone specifically murdered in a night club whose body is carted off suggests something more than a random act of violence for the sake of robbery, etc. Certainly, in the US, there are constant reminders that collateral damage happens to innocent bystanders. There are nightly news stories in the US of crimes that are just as heinous.

Most of the perpetrators of these heinous crimes in Mexico lately, aren't pros, and many of them aren't particularly intelligent with respect to being caught for their crimes. A pro doesn't bring the DNA from the scene of the crime with him.

My contention with respect to the violence has been that mongers are not in the same kind of danger as persons that have ties to cartels, or are themselves engaging in criminal acts, other than to potentially be collateral damage from the carelessness of these want to be gangster types acting out their own perceived stereotype behavior, or the army and police as they sometimes carelessly display a disregard for public safety in fighting the gangsters.

I am not in denial that the violence exists, just that the average monger who is not engaging in cartel affiliations, or criminal activities, (ie: an innocent, relatively obscure mongering visitor to the area) , is not at any particular added risk by visiting the clubs on the "seedy" side of Monterrey.

An incident in Bario Antiqua doesn't relate to what goes on at Villagran and Carlos Salazar. I have heard of numerous issues at the nightclubs of Bario Antigua. I would not recommend going there late at night. Frankly, that's where the high rolling gangster types are, spreading their money around, playing the big shot.

Most of their type that are frequenting the upscale establishments in Bario Antiqua aren't particularly interested in rubbing elbows with low class factory worker who doesn't have two pesos to rub together, not enough money to take girls up for a privado, but have to sit around the outskirts of the stage to cop a feel!

There certainly are gang members in the clubs around Villagran and Carlos Salizar, but those areas, while seemingly seedy, and seemingly ripe for being a hot bed of potentially dangerous activity, aren't, statistically. Bario Antigua, IS, statistically.

With respect to the media, they sensationalize everything for profit! Everywhere, the US, Mexico, EVERYWHERE!

My point is that through the sensationalizing heinous crimes, they encourage, and often perpetuate, the very worst offenders in a society of miscreants that crave media attention, and notoriety, the want to be's who think that's what professional criminals do, and want to exhibit the stereotype by conducting what they perceive is the behavior that will gain them entry into the club. These miscreants have more money than they've ever had in their entire short lives, they live for today, and they would gladly trade 2 years of living large for what might otherwise be the remaining 60 years of their lives.

With respect to my criticism of media's role, most of the violence is NOT cartel business, but freelancers behaving like they think they have to behave to be the want to be's they crave being. Their behavior is the result of the HYPE perpetrated by sensationalized media coverage as these gangster want to be's conduct themselves in sync with what they perceive is the behavior of high rolling criminal types, a stereotype perpetrated by media in an effort to package their coverage, and sell more product, a vicious, and self promoting, self perpetuating of the stereotype they created for profit.

Why do you come to this foro and make the belief that you know everything in Monterrey and Mexico when you only visit a couple weeks a year? The violence that happen in mexico is most all cartel. Like I report before, this is now a war of power and control and not only about the drugs. Your report above continue to make you appear to be the fool. Anyone read it that live here know you a fool.

And you mention pro. There is no need for pro or no-pro because nothing is to be done against the cartels. They are enforcing there own law and order and victimizing the people here. You insult us with your know everything atitude.

You are not to be qualify to make the opinion of what is happen here in mexico or monterrey right now. I feel bad for your monterrey friend here on the foro because he live here and knows you say very foolish things.

Nobody want to have a fool as the friend.

[Member #3453]

SpongeBob,

The idea that you are a "phantom in the night" is a laughing riot, because as a gringo in the clubs I am automatically asked if I know the "the man who brings cookies" upon meeting anybody in the clubs. The amount of personal information available which you have either posted directly on the forums, or easily available for the cost of a couple of ladies drinks is unprecedented. You are one of the most famous and prolific patrons of Monterrey's commercial illicit sex district, an area of town so notorious that 99% of local guys are too scared to even take a [CodeWord140] there.

Fortunately you have a reputation of being a nice guy and being harmless, but should you ever become a target, the odds aren't in your favor. The bad guys are equipped to battle military and disposing a defenseless gringo without a trace would be an easy job. Mongering is inherently a social activity. It doesn't take much imagination to think of many scenarios where a monger could become a target, and could easily be the result of a misunderstanding where you did nothing wrong. What if a lady you're close to gets knocked up? Think they're going to wait around for the paternity tests and the court case, or maybe they just want revenge for deflowering their darling princess? Mexican justice.

I haven't seen much published about the subject, but it has always been my operating assumption that the various criminal syndicates are heavily involved in prostitution in Monterrey. That a large number of patrons are low level gang members. It is true pretty much everywhere so is probably a safe assumption about Monterrey also. A big portion of the women are drug users so you are two degrees from all sorts of drug dealers. With all that is known about the drug situation in Mexico, it just seems like playing with fire to willingly insert yourself right into that world.

You make a lot of assumptions, yet you really know nothing of me. You only know what I want you to know, and they only know what I want them to know. Remember that....You are speculating about me, based on details I've projected with respect to a persona that I created almost ten years ago, and perpetrated upon the clubs.

At that time, the risks associated with being recognized were not nearly as great as they are today. Suffice it to say that my reputation lingers in places that I no longer frequent, and with some girls and waiters that I rarely ever see.

Simply put, I don't do things that risk some kind of retaliatory reaction from individuals in the clubs. And, while it may seem that I am active in the clubs, my patronage of them has diminished considerably over the years compared to ten years ago. My activities in the clubs are not nearly as predictable these days, and my reputation live on in my absence. With respect to some kind of conspiracy that someone might want to perpetrate upon me, what most of them have is a memory of me, and very little opportunity to actually plan much of anything. My activities are not predictable.

I freely admit that I am a little more vulnerable than the average one time visitor due to my having some visibility in a very finite number of clubs. My reputation and "familiarity" lingers with some that rarely, if ever, actually still see me.

But, that is exactly my point when making recommendations to people visiting Monterrey for the first time, or even when advising the occasional visitor. The average visitor has no little or no recognition in the clubs, and risks even less than we do.

After all, they now associate you with me, whether you like it or not. Better not go, or you may be targeted as a friend of the Gringo.

Anyone can be targeted for criminal activity. And, with respect to Mexico, I do assume some risks as a result of my presence in Mexico, and due to the recognition factor in some of the bars, not because it is dangerous for the average visitor, but because my notoriety in the bars contradicts my preference to maintain a low key presence. And, even then, I am still infinitely safer than those that are immersed in Mexican society on a
day-to-day basis.

Remember, my own notoriety in the bars is a result of my patronage of those bars over a period of ten years, long before the dangers had risen to their current level in Mexico. My persona and reputation in the bars has been well established for many years. Reversing that trend for me is much more difficult than others heeding my advise to lay low.

[Dad Fun 555]

SpongeBob,

The idea that you are a "phantom in the night" is a laughing riot, because as a gringo in the clubs I am automatically asked if I know the "the man who brings cookies" upon meeting anybody in the clubs. The amount of personal information available which you have either posted directly on the forums, or easily available for the cost of a couple of ladies drinks is unprecedented. You are one of the most famous and prolific patrons of Monterrey's commercial illicit sex district, an area of town so notorious that 99% of local guys are too scared to even take a [CodeWord140] there.

Fortunately you have a reputation of being a nice guy and being harmless, but should you ever become a target, the odds aren't in your favor. The bad guys are equipped to battle military and disposing a defenseless gringo without a trace would be an easy job. Mongering is inherently a social activity. It doesn't take much imagination to think of many scenarios where a monger could become a target, and could easily be the result of a misunderstanding where you did nothing wrong. What if a lady you're close to gets knocked up? Think they're going to wait around for the paternity tests and the court case, or maybe they just want revenge for deflowering their darling princess? Mexican justice.

I haven't seen much published about the subject, but it has always been my operating assumption that the various criminal syndicates are heavily involved in prostitution in Monterrey. That a large number of patrons are low level gang members. It is true pretty much everywhere so is probably a safe assumption about Monterrey also. A big portion of the women are drug users so you are two degrees from all sorts of drug dealers. With all that is known about the drug situation in Mexico, it just seems like playing with fire to willingly insert yourself right into that world.