Monterrey

[Dad Fun 555]

When I am hitting the streets of Monterrey, I have never experienced the "narco terrorist" effect you speak of, and that's why I have absolutely no concerns about visiting the bars on Villagran, and along Madero, which must be the supposedly seedy neighborhoods referred to.

My girlfriend has been a sobbing wreck the last couple of days because her friend was murdered in a famous night club in Barrio Antiguo over the weekend. Grisly type of murder which only happens in Mexico where they took away the body and nobody knows where it is. Now everybody is attending candlelight vigils in memory. Thought I read a statistic recently that said something like 1 in 7 Mexicans knows somebody killed in the conflict. Yes I know in your 30 years of going to Monterrey you never met anybody affected by the conflict. Do you know more than 7 people there? Maybe you should buy a lottery ticket. Or maybe it is all just an conspiracy by international media.

I have only heard of ONE testimonial in my entire experience with mongering for the last 30 years that mongers can freely pass through US Customs with prescription medications without a prescription. I am not calling into question the validity of those experiences. I am merely saying that it is contrary to what I have heard for the last thirty years.

So you have examples of people being prosecuted for smuggling personal quantities of Viagra into US without a prescription? Please provide reference, I am really interested. Please cite just one case.

But, I agree with Bbond. While I appreciate the reporting of one monger's experiences with respect to their declaring prescriptions and not having any repercussions, I would like to hear of a number of similar experiences, not because I doubt this single experience, but so I can detect a reliable trend that the practice by US Customs is the rule rather than the exception. But, other testimonials are seemingly illusive, which may suggest that the practice may not be a reliable operational guideline at all ports of entry that we all can count on.

There are plenty of blogs and other forums about this subject if you are interested. To me the law is clear and unambiguous that is legal to import personal quantities of Viagra into US (or anywhere) without a prescription. I am comfortable and confident doing it, it is not a big deal to me at all. Clearly you are not convinced, so best that you avoid it. Since you are the type who wants everything guaranteed and spelled out in every detail, clearly it is in your interest to just acquire Viagra through conventional means and not taking risk. Nothing wrong with that, but please don't project your overly cautious advice onto bigger risk takers.

[Member #3453]

[ The reality is, just a few weeks ago, I saw that they completely demolished the flea markets, which used to run between Pino Suarez and Juarez, which is the area that I referred you to. /QUOTE]I have never seen Reforma the way you described it like a flea market and all. It is just like a street now, and the stalls I referred to are in the little walking alleys that run off both sides of the street. Some have like roll-up garage doors? Only folks strolling around that Sunday seemed to be a few families shopping for bargains. I seemed to be the only monger trolling, so the girls at the hotels were pretty agressive for Monterrey, at least in my very limited street trolling experience.

Yeah, I was SHOCKED! Envision about three or four alleyways running between Reforma from Pino Suarez to Juarez, some of the street names had been totally forgotten because they were devoured by the flea market, covered with metal corrugated roofing panels that spanned between the width of Reforma, and several other street names all but obliterated, literally enveloped by the flea market, roofs that leaked like a sieve whenever it rained, hot as blazes in the summer, cold as ice in the winter, smelly, garbage lying in the alleyways at times, etc...

There were hundreds of individual stalls there where the vendors sold Pirated DVD, Clothing, Shoes, Watches, Electronics, Pirated Electronic Games, etc...and, the girls standing outside the formerly totally obscured hotels...even open air style "restaurants," some of which were quite busy and bustling around lunch time with many patrons. There were regular raids in the flea market to curb the pirating of DVDs, CDs, etc...

There were hundreds of small cubicles with roll up doors, similar to what you're seeing installed on the other small stores that front Madero around Juarez.

The City originally moved the flea market district a number of years ago to Reforma in order to push it into obscurity, so as to improve the City's image, hoping the flea market would be so obscure that it would eventually die. Instead of dying, it flourished wildly, while also becoming kind of a "Cesspool Like" shopping haven for the lower classes.

Apparently the City grew impatient with the sales of Pirated Merchandise, as well as becoming disgusted with the blight that was characteristic of the flea market. And, probably even more accurately, they became embarrassed and a little aggravated that their intention to kill it only caused it to flourish and grow. I think they became disgusted with seeing their intentions to kill it backfire.

They took a few tractors, and just completely wiped it out over the course of about 24-48 hours. I guess they thought the only way to get rid of it was to wipe it off the face of the earth, which they did.

Now, those hotels you're seeing that were all but totally obscured by being enveloped by the flea market, have been exposed to the light of day. The girls are standing outside those hotels, or have moved to other hotels in relative close proximity to Reforma, and they are much more visible to street traffic.

The Reforma Flea Market used to be a decent distraction during the day when things were relatively boring, especially on weekends when the clubs with the lunch buffets were closed. It will be a loss to visiting mongers with time on their hands during the day. There are other similar flea markets around, but none that are nearly as large, and none that are so notoriously nasty and simultaneously interesting.

[Larbo]

[ The reality is, just a few weeks ago, I saw that they completely demolished the flea markets, which used to run between Pino Suarez and Juarez, which is the area that I referred you to. /QUOTE]I have never seen Reforma the way you described it like a flea market and all. It is just like a street now, and the stalls I referred to are in the little walking alleys that run off both sides of the street. Some have like roll-up garage doors? Only folks strolling around that Sunday seemed to be a few families shopping for bargains. I seemed to be the only monger trolling, so the girls at the hotels were pretty agressive for Monterrey, at least in my very limited street trolling experience.

[Member #3453]

11 girls in front of the two hotels that showed action. Only one was doable for me

Yeah, those are the dogs standing in front of the big Green Hotel. If you walk down Pino Suarez toward the Cajero, you'll notice several girls that at least have the looks to be doable...just beyond the shoe shine stand.

but I passed because it was 104 degrees, the hotel was not air conditioned, and I'm too old to enjoy sex while sweating like an eskimo in Brazil.

And that is why I am reluctant to patronize even the best looking of them in the summer, even in the event of a dire emergency!.) Like you, I prefer the salida experience, the comfort, the control of the environment, time, payment terms, etc..., and have only actually patronized the door girls twice in ten years.

The reality is, just a few weeks ago, I saw that they completely demolished the flea markets, which used to run between Pino Suarez and Juarez, which is the area that I referred you to. There used to be a small hotel with door girls, usually one or two doable out of 5 or 6, and as you would walk in the flea market, which they apparently very recently demolished, you could gawk longingly at the better looking of them, and it added just a little added ZING to the flea market experience. :-)))

[Member #3453]

When I am hitting the streets of Monterrey, I have never experienced the "narco terrorist" effect you speak of, and that's why I have absolutely no concerns about visiting the bars on Villagran, and along Madero, which must be the supposedly seedy neighborhoods referred to. Frankly, to me, they are relatively tame neighborhoods compared to my own home city in the USA. Fear simply doesn't enter into my thinking there. In ten years, I have NEVER experienced any activity there directly that justifies "fear" of the area. It's among the oldest of areas in the city, and not akin to a place like Colonial Del Valle, kind of seedy, certainly...but, it's old and run down, "seedy" appearance doesn't translate in my having fear of the area with respect to my own actual experiences.

The violence and influence of the drug cartels is rampant in Mexico. But, the media capitalizes on their reporting of drug cartel activity, and they hype it for profit, especially the US media. Not only that, but most of the violence in Monterrey these days, with respect to the "dangers" is from "free lancers" committing crimes of opportunity, and the acts of those perpetrators are not sanctioned by the drug cartels, nor do those crimes relate to drug cartel activity. The media and the police like to "blame" the cartels for those acts, but when those acts are investigated they're are determined to be independent criminal acts, unrelated to Cartel business.

The law with respect to FDA regulations, and their relationship to US Customs Service responsibilities, is not in question. Foreign manufacturing facilities are required to be inspected by FDA in order to be FDA approved, which they are NOT. There is no ambiguity with respect to those laws. The laws are written straightforwardly, and I have no doubt the statutes exist by which you can be charged for bringing-in generic medications that are not backed up with a prescription.

The ambiguity is in whether the Customs service enforces those laws as a matter of practice...

I have only heard of ONE testimonial in my entire experience with mongering for the last 30 years that mongers can freely pass through US Customs with prescription medications without a prescription. I am not calling into question the validity of those experiences. I am merely saying that it is contrary to what I have heard for the last thirty years.

But, I agree with Bbond. While I appreciate the reporting of one monger's experiences with respect to their declaring prescriptions and not having any repercussions, I would like to hear of a number of similar experiences, not because I doubt this single experience, but so I can detect a reliable trend that the practice by US Customs is the rule rather than the exception. But, other testimonials are seemingly illusive, which may suggest that the practice may not be a reliable operational guideline at all ports of entry that we all can count on.

Consider this, why does US Customs advocate your reporting of those medications upon re-entry if they are not scrutinizing your possession of prescription generic drugs in that category? They do not question your possession of prescriptions filled in this country. You do not have to declare prescriptions filled in the US, only prescription drugs filled in foreign countries. So, they are scrutinizing your possession of those generic prescription drugs whether they are enforcing the law with penalties or not.

As for being afraid of being "yelled at" by Customs Agents. In all of my travels worldwide for the last 30 years, I have never witnessed that kind of behavior by US Customs Agents. It isn't about being "frightened," by Customs Agents supposedly "yelling" at us.

It's about avoiding the hassles, ie: the delays, especially when connecting flights are scheduled so closely. In addition, it is simply foolish to court legal action being perpetrated against you when it can very easily be avoided with a little clarification of their guidelines at US Customs, along with a decent number of substantiating experiences from more than one person.

Having this discussion, and soliciting more than one example of mongers freely importing prescription drugs without a prescription through US Customs, is intelligent thing to solicit. It is not a frivolous or foolish endeavor, nor is it prompted out of "fear" of being "yelled at" by US Customs Agents. So far, we have only one testimonial that this is norm rather than the lucky exception, or that the practice by US Customs isn't regional rather than universal at all points of entry.

[Dad Fun 555]

There are some many complexities with "FDA Approved". Legitimate medications manufactured abroad may have the same name, but not have the same formulation since they are from a different factory. Just because it is "Viagra" it might be manufactured in a different factory so not technically FDA approved. When they ship internationally, there is also sorts of licensing and rebranding which takes place. Also medications have different names in different countries so you could have something which is in fact manufactured in US under FDA approval but it has a different name. Then of course you also have generics. My interpretation is that the spirit of "FDA approved" requirement refers to the active ingredient, the point of it is so you don't import banned medications. Not generics of well accepted medications. I am not a lawyer of course so please consult with one before importing questionable medications on your own.

I agree customs agents have a lot of discretion, but remember they are law enforcers, not law makers. They do not make up the law, and they cannot charge with you a crime which doesn't exist. I personally believe the biggest risk you have is they yell at you and maybe take away with your purchase unless you are trying to import egregious quantities of steroids and controlled substances.

I do find a a certain irony in guys who think nothing of hitting the streets late at night in seedy neighborhoods in narcoterrorist controlled cities who think violence in Mexico is imagined by the media, but consider importing personal quantities of non-controlled prescription medications into the US to be too risky.

[Member #3453]

From.

http://seniorhealth.about.com/cs/pre.../mexico_rx.htm

In general, you may bring no more than 50 dosage units without producing a prescription from an FDA-approved USA physician. (A prescription from a Mexican doctor is no longer adequate.) If you have the proper prescription, you may bring more than 50 dosage units. Often, however, USA Customs agents will prohibit more than a 60- to 90-day supply.

It is against the law not to properly declare imported medications with USA Customs.

The FDA has guidance policies in place that do allow some discretion in enforcement of this regulation. The circumstances under which the regulations may be relaxed include:

3."The product is considered not to represent an unreasonable risk."

The first part of the article that Bbond sighted starts out with the following..."You are generally allowed to bring FDA-approved prescription medications back into the United States for your own personal use, with the following stipulations:" The key word here is "FDA approved."

I think the issue is that Customs policies are apparently in a constant state of flux, and that the decision to allow prescription drugs to come into the US that are not FDA approved is at the discretion of the Customs Agents.

I have heard of several incidents over a span of the last 30 years of guys being harassed by Customs at the border for prescriptions they've attempted to bring back into the US from foreign countries, Mexico, Thailand, the PI, Indonesia, the DR, etc...and I have heard media reports of this as well. But, I also realize that policies and guidelines do change.

The disclaimer issued at the bottom of the article that Bbond referred to is probably the wisest course of action with respect to your deciding to test the system.

"Disclaimer: Be aware that laws, and the guidelines under which USA Customs Agents operate, change frequently and without notice, and the advice given in this article may not be entirely applicable when you attempt to bring prescription drugs across the border. If you have questions about current laws, contact USA Customs and Border Protection."

Those that are not adverse to testing the system can leave it up to the discretion of the Customs Agent they get. If you have the time to be hassled, it might be worth the experiment to establish for one's own self the confidence level that DadFun555 has with respect to the legal "safety" of his own routine.

When deciding whether to test the system, in the immortal words of Clint Eastwood (Dirty Harry), it comes down to this...

Do Ya Feel Lucky, Punk? :-)))

[Larbo]

The same airport declaration you get on every flight for air entry to US, and as I said just oral declaration on land US-MX crossing. Basically every such entry was like,"What was your purpose in Mexico?" "Visiting my girlfriend"."What are you bringing back?"."Two bottles of Generic Viagra". (hmm, adds up? Better let this guy through)."Have a nice day".

Some guys can't tolerate the risk however small of getting yelled at by a border guard. Others can't tolerate risk of getting kidnapped off a bus headed to Monterrey and being skinned alive and dumped into a vat of acid by narcoterrorists. Just do what makes you comfortable that's what I think. If bringing medication across an international border makes you nervous just get your Viagra from your pharmacy at home. Not a biggie.

You think just like me!"Oops! Forgot about it. Brought it down to use it. Didn't need it. Brought it back. Sorry about that". Just say it with a smile.

[Bbond]

From http://seniorhealth.about.com/cs/pre.../mexico_rx.htm

In general, you may bring no more than 50 dosage units without producing a prescription from an FDA-approved USA physician. (A prescription from a Mexican doctor is no longer adequate.) If you have the proper prescription, you may bring more than 50 dosage units. Often, however, USA Customs agents will prohibit more than a 60- to 90-day supply.

It is against the law not to properly declare imported medications with USA Customs.

The FDA has guidance policies in place that do allow some discretion in enforcement of this regulation. The circumstances under which the regulations may be relaxed include:

3."The product is considered not to represent an unreasonable risk."

[Dad Fun 555]

What form did you use to declare it, and what border crossing did you use to re-enter the US?

The same airport declaration you get on every flight for air entry to US, and as I said just oral declaration on land US-MX crossing. Basically every such entry was like,"What was your purpose in Mexico?" "Visiting my girlfriend"."What are you bringing back?"."Two bottles of Generic Viagra". (hmm, adds up? Better let this guy through)."Have a nice day".

Some guys can't tolerate the risk however small of getting yelled at by a border guard. Others can't tolerate risk of getting kidnapped off a bus headed to Monterrey and being skinned alive and dumped into a vat of acid by narcoterrorists. Just do what makes you comfortable that's what I think. If bringing medication across an international border makes you nervous just get your Viagra from your pharmacy at home. Not a biggie.

[Member #3453]

As I wrote below, dozens of times I have brought & declared prescription medication (without having a prescription) across USA border, and the agents always said it was perfectly fine. The first couple of times I did this I brought a prescription with me, but it was not needed.

What form did you use to declare it, and what border crossing did you use to re-enter the US?

[Dad Fun 555]

That's because drugs like Viagra aren't really "controlled substances" by legal definition, not like an addictive drug is identified by classification number. But, it is considered a "restricted substance" just the same, one that requires a prescription, and whose illegal importation is a violation of FDA regulations, and therefore, a violation of US Customs regulations.

It is especially a violation of FDA regulations in the generic form, which is what most mongers obtain in Thailand, Mexico, etc. Because the foreign manufacturing plants where these generics are manufactured are not approved by FDA.

But the law you quote only talks about "controlled substances" (not relevant for Viagra) , and says nothing about "restricted substances". Please refer to a law which says "restricted substances" are banned from importation into US. In what bbond quotes, it specifically says you can import controlled substances into US without a prescription.

I was personally bringing specifically Maxifort into US on practically every trip to Mexico over a period of a couple of years, and I always declared it and US customs agents always said it was OK. It is good stuff and I've taken it all around the world, and yet to find a reliable equivalent anywhere (I prefer it to the generic stuff in Asia, so I even bring Maxifort to Thailand!). I've done this at the airports also and have specifically written "generic Viagra" on the declaration card and again they always said it's OK. Not once or twice, but dozens of times. Do you think the millions of foreign visitors who enter US annually from overseas have even heard of the FDA, let alone know how to check that the medication they used is approved? Give me a break.

From what I understood the Rush Limbaugh case was more about having a bottle of medication not in his name than smuggling Viagra. When in doubt, DECLARE! I doubt it is likely they will try to charge you with smuggling anything that you declared. Now if they search and they find something you should have declared, you could have a lot of explaining to do.

[Dad Fun 555]

I wish someone that has actually passed customs, declaring some medications, would chime in here with their experiences.

As I wrote below, dozens of times I have brought & declared prescription medication (without having a prescription) across USA border, and the agents always said it was perfectly fine. The first couple of times I did this I brought a prescription with me, but it was not needed.

[Member #3453]

I wish someone that has actually passed customs, declaring some medications, would chime in here with their experiences. Personally, I avoid carrying anything That would or could be a problem, just ain't worth the possible hassle.

Although it's never happened to me, (and I have been crossing into Mexico since 1968) , I have seen people asked to empty their pockets when entering the US on foot. Once I was asked to remove one shoe, I walk with a limp due to a couple of accidents involving my left leg, and they wanted to see what I had in the shoe, I removed it and showed them the material inside used as a lift, and was on my way in a couple minutes.

I agree with you 100%. I have always heard the horror stories, but never actually been caught doing it to know whether the penalties are substantial, minor, non-existent, or whether the Customs Service has discretion in prosecuting these matters, etc.

According to the statutes I sighted before, it is definitely a violation of the law with respect to the FDA...But, I don't know if they enforce it as a matter of practice at the border with individuals or not.

According to their website, the Customs Service reserves the right to use their own "discretion" with respect to our coming through with prescription medications that do not have a prescription. It says that right on their website.

The law books are a mile high. If they wanted to push it, I have no doubt whatsoever that they could do so, and make some kind of charge stick.

Would they do it? Probably not. But, like you, I don't like risking it. And, who wants to be hassled at the border, detained, etc. While they screw with you, etc...scaring the crap out of you, etc...

I do know Customs official tried to charge Rush Limbaugh with bringing "Viagra" specifically into the US without a prescription, and I've read about incidents with some sports figures being caught as well.

In the case of Rush Limbaugh, he got his doctor to testify in a sworn affidavit that he had a prescription. Otherwise, they would have burned him for sure. And, in order to burn somebody, you have to have the statutes to back it up. Had the doctor not come to his rescue, he would have been toast.

The specific statutes and case law is somewhere, but who has the time to look it all up?

[Bbond]

That's because drugs like Viagra aren't really "controlled substances" by legal definition, not like an addictive drug is identified by classification number. But, it is considered a "restricted substance" just the same, one that requires a prescription, and whose illegal importation is a violation of FDA regulations, and therefore, a violation of US Customs regulations.

It is especially a violation of FDA regulations in the generic form, which is what most mongers obtain in Thailand, Mexico, etc. Because the foreign manufacturing plants where these generics are manufactured are not approved by FDA.

I wish someone that has actually passed customs, declaring some medications, would chime in here with their experiences. Personally, I avoid carrying anything that would or could be a problem, just ain't worth the possible hassle.
Although it's never happened to me, (and I have been crossing into Mexico since 1968), I have seen people asked to empty their pockets when entering the US on foot. Once I was asked to remove one shoe, I walk with a limp due to a couple of accidents involving my left leg, and they wanted to see what I had in the shoe, I removed it and showed them the material inside used as a lift, and was on my way in a couple minutes.