Thread: Morelia
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10-01-02 08:48 #37
Posts: 21Prokofiev/Miller:
I agree with Mojado, You can get World Class doctors and medical care in Mexico, if you know where to look... that's why it's expensive,
(ex. my beautiful young dentist studied in Mexico and Germany, married a German dentist, they practice in Morelia using the best of the World/German Technology),
(lots of German expatriates in Morelia and Michoacan)
The World's best/biggest Insurance Companies have a Mexico Office: ING, New York Life, Travelers, etc., You can safely buy insurance in Mexico, if you have a problem cashing a check, call the NY or London Office, they will help you...I mean, You can buy an International Medical Plan (Insurance) in Mexico and use it abroad, at ANY hospital/Country,
Regards
CM
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10-01-02 08:12 #36
Posts: 21Prokofiev/Miller:
You don't have to pay ANY mexican tax (Property, IVA, Tenencia, etc.)....ever, you are not Mexicans, Mexican taxes are for mexican nationals ONLY,
Mexicans don't have to pay ANY Tax outside Mexico, There are ways to legally avoid paying taxes outside your home country,
(ex. Most countries refund the sale tax paid during your visit)
It's perfectly legal to have 2 or 3 passports or as many as you want,
Miller: There is no problem owning property in Mexico,
Regards
CM
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09-30-02 06:14 #35
Posts: 329Hi all...Alien is completely correct about the property ownership issue. An attorney friend here told me that non-Mexican property owners are constantly being hit up for "taxes" that can range from yearly to monthly and in varying amounts, depending on the particular official...That's why I don't even think about buying land here until I get married.
Proko...when I ask the immigration people here about the easiest way to become a legal resident, they always advise me to marry a Mexicana or have a baby with a Mexicana. This sort of cuts through a little of the beaurocracy. There will be MANY women willing to marry an American purely from a business standpoint where you can both fix your respective papers. I've received about 12 offers since I've been here. Personally,though, I've given up trying to fix my papers. It's pointless since it's never been an issue and I usually only end up paying thousands of pesos for a long day and nothing accomplished. According to the Mexican constitution, any person who is a direct descendent of a Mexican national is also a Mexican citizen. So, unless mom or dad are Mexican nationals, you'll have to deal with the same run-around with regard to your papers.
By the way, another lawyer friend in the USA advised me NOT to become a Mexican citizen because the pledge to be a citizen makes you renounce all previous ties or allegiances to other countries and, from a pure legal aspect, the US gov't acknowledges taking an oath of allegiance to another country as a renouncement of your US citizenship. Currently, the US gov't doesn't enforce any such policy and they might never do so, but this isn't something that's protected by the constitution, it's totally a decision of Congress...and as such, it can be changed at any time...
Mojado...don't worry about the length of your e-mails...I didn't get a chance to write because I've been tied up with professional and personal issues...I'll drop you a line after I finish here...
Explorer...my sentiments exactly. We need a few more reports here. I've taken a break from my hobby lately, but I'll be posting a real report very soon...
Take care all...
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09-30-02 02:58 #34
Posts: 3257Are there any girls in Morelia?
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09-29-02 18:57 #33
Posts: 18Originally posted by Prokofiev
Mojado,
Is it worth it - what are the advantages? If I married a Mexicana would I automatically be a Mexican national?
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09-29-02 18:44 #32
Posts: 453Mojado,
You have a Mexican passport and dual nationality. Were you born in Mexico? How does one get dual nationality -become a Mexican citizen? Is it worth it - what are the advantages? If I married a Mexicana would I automatically be a Mexican national?
Just wondering. Miller and Cupido probably can answer this as well .
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09-29-02 08:17 #31
Posts: 52Hola Everyone!
I've been busy and was waiting for a reply from Miller2K...
And Miller2K, apologies for the LONG email. I'll send only short ones now I do overplan my trips to Mexico, though on each I've gotten a ton of things done without mishap except for once.
And thank you Cupido!! Yes, I definitely will be moving to Mexico in 1 year, probably August or September 2003. I've found houses for sale in Uruapan and Morelia (Uruapan price was $15,000 pesos and Morelia was 18,000 pesos) but I didn't recognize the colonia mentioned in Uruapan and the one in Morelia was not mentioned either. Both cities have mostly decent areas but the bad areas are EXTREME. Given my lack of a perfect Mexican accent and my very light looks I need at least a "questionable" colonia versus a dangerous one.
On rents, I've now found a rent price of $1,500 pesos per month in Zamora for a 2 bedroom apartment with some decent qualities that totally make this somewhat high price worth it... (such as it's just across the street from a NURSING COLLEGE!!! OOoohhh HELLO NURSE!!!) I have a friend in Zamora who's really trying to help me out, thank God for little favors So... I'll have to see about that one later on.
And I again agree with you Miller2k --- best laid plans can get totally destroyed in Mexico. However I don't necessarily agree with you on Mexican medicine. I've met some great doctors in Uruapan. They are friends of my parents and family - going back over 35 years. Their children grew up and studied medicine. One is an opthalmologist who is excellent beyond words. A fine doctor, eye surgeon and laser surgeon.
The other is the middle son who is a G.I. doctor (Gastro-intestinal) and he treated me every time I got sick down there and he delivered his sister's babies and has done work for free for the poor and works out of a private hospital. I've been in that hospital many times (not because I was sick, mostly because at that time I was selling laptops to all the doctors there... that was cool in those days). The place is spotless, the instruments are sanitized and super heated to kill the bugs and none of the doctors there are slouches. The all work really hard. It may just be that one hospital that is like this, but I would put my health in their hands.
This hospital is in Uruapan and it is called Fray Juan de San Miguel I believe. I'll always get good care there, so ideally I want to live within 4 hours bus ride of Uruapan. I think they would not charge me outrageous prices as well because I have always given them excellent prices on the things I've sold (My goal was only to cover my airplane and some hotel costs on those trips) and I always provided ongoing "tech support" when I came down. In return I got "free" medical care when I was there. I just had to pay for the medications and they refused to let me pay for the consultation / diagnosis.
Anyway... I do need to work on not planning this move to death. But I can't just put all my money in my belt and drive over to Mexico. I'm not as brave as you were Miller2k!!!
I'm going to have a U.S. bank account. I already have a Mexican bank account and Mexican passport and dual nationality. Worst thing that can happen is that the move fails after a year or two and I come back to the U.S. to work. Nothing different than what I am doing now. And the $40 K I intend on having when I move down there would buy me what in the area I live in? (SF Bay area) A great down payment on a Lexus or a nice Kia and some vacations to Mexico? The median house out here costs over $350,000 USD ... 40K in this job market doesn't mean much. (versus the other 4 letter word I wanted to use).
The way I see it I have 1 year to plan this out. I've got the truck for the move, I will be legalizing it when I cross the border and they'll give me Mexican license plates for the drive through Mexico and Cupido yes, I am sure hoping a Mexicanita finds me when I am down there and makes my life Much more pleasant. It's the time waiting for this to happen that is so tough. But yes, I am pretty darned sure that a Mexicana of worth will find me worthwhile. They've said I'm "guapo" and "de buena onda" many times (friends and the SW's alike). I just need to be careful of the ones who think that life is better in the U.S.
O.K. so much for a short post... but hey, this is better than the one below
Thanks everyone for your comments here. It sure does help.
El Mojado
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09-25-02 06:49 #30
Posts: 329Proko...
The difference in our outlooks probably all boils down to demographics and the reasons that we decide to move down South in the first place. The whole idea of excessive planning and budgeting and worrying about tomorrow is one of the reasons that I left the USA in the first place. I was a slave to maintaining my lifestyle, even if I wasn't fully aware of that urge. Medical coverage and such, to me, would be like taking a generator, a fully-stocked fridge, and a microwave on a camping trip. Of course, if you move to Mexico as a form of retirement and you want to continue with your lifestyle, only in a more relaxed atmosphere....then that's great. Plan away, but I'll warn you that the best plans in Mexico fall apart fairly quickly. So, to each his own.
Personally, I wouldn't trust any Mexican HMO or medical plan. I've seen too many shading dealing with supposed contracts and insurance deals. The one good thing about the USA is that legal contracts are almost always binding. In Mexico, it's an iffy proposition at best. Believe me, one way or the other, insurance or not, you WILL pay. As for the medical treatment in Mexico--- I love Mexico in just about every way, but I would rather do my own operation than go to a doctor here. They ALWAYS want to operate, like they just got their surgical tools and they're itching to try them out. Maybe it's just the doctors that I've experienced, but I would try my luck with a State or Teaching Hospital in the USA any day. I can run down a whole list of horror stories about Mexican doctors ranging from un-sterilized surgical tools to major surgeries for minor ailments to radiation treatments to "cure" various ailments. Of course, as always...YMMV
So, there are various ways to make the move down South and no one is better than the other. It's just odd to me why people would be so obsessive about order and assurances in a land that's so beautiful and carefree. I mean, that's the reason I'm here anyway....but variety is the spice of life, right?
Take care all
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09-24-02 16:55 #29
Posts: 453Miller,
I imagine that the reason you would "be on the 1st plane back to the USA" for medical care is that you don't trust the Mexican hospitals for an operation or major medical, correct? But without either Mexican or US medical insurance - or a fat bank account - how would you pay for medical care in the US? Certainly it's a lot cheaper in Mexico and probably only a little more dangerous, or am I wrong? Have you never been to a Mexican doctor or dentist? And how long can someone do that? The idea of some type of insurance -with a high deductible to cover just the big stuff - seems reasonable to me. And the older you get, the more it matters and the more it bothers you.
-P
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09-24-02 07:08 #28
Posts: 329Cupido.....
WELCOME BACK....However, I beg to differ about a couple of the things that you said.
Most Americans think in a "go by the book" way of thinking. The fact of the matter is that Mexico is a wide-open country with very flexible laws. On paper, living in Mexico is a bit of an ordeal. We, as Americans, are used to living by the laws because the system usually works, it's usually fair and just. Mexico (unfortunately for the citizens) is not like that. I moved here with just a little over 8 thousand dollars- no bank account in the USA and no work lined up for myself. I've been here now for more than 2.5 years and I've yet to encounter a problem with my less-than legal status. I even travel back to the USA every so often without a valid visa. The authorities just don't care if I'm here unless I become a political activist or a criminal. And even if they did swoop down on me, the worst they could do is send me back to the USA. I've had steady employment and income since I've been here and, despite the fact that I "can't work", several institutes have offered me jobs. (When I tell them that I'm not legally allowed to work, they laugh out loud and tell me "no hay problema con eso". Hell, they even offer to pay for my false documents).
As for rents....The rent is a lot cheaper than in the States for comparable housing. I can rent a big place in a good location for less than 2 thousand pesos. If you work as a "profesionista", rent is the least of your concerns. And, in the long run, I prefer not to own because of a few whacky property laws that I'm not interested in dealing with.
Medical coverage has yet to be a concern for me. If I needed a serious operation or intensive medical care, I would be on the first plane to the USA, so a medical plan is a moot point. For the little illnesses, they sell penacilin and anti-biotics over the counter, just invest 2 hundred pesos and take some medicine whenever you feel an itch in your throat.
Mojado...I'll send a more detailed message to you via e-mail , answering your questions, tomorrow or ASAP.
Cupido....So how're things going with your lady friend? Hope you are happy and running her ragged...
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09-23-02 08:03 #27
Posts: 21MOJADO:
I'd like to help you MOVING TO MEXICO...it's easy if you really want to,
Most EU contries ask anybody who wants to move there to have at least $100,000US in the bank and a minimum $600US monthly income, Most countries have similar rules,
If you want to (permanently) move to Mexico (or any other country) you'll need a similar amount of money, Mexico is not cheap, and you can't work legally if you are not "mexican citizen", or until you are, If you want to live in Mexico, get a mexican passport as soon as possible (2-5 years),
I also recommend to:
1.- buy a house in order to keep a "clean/low" budget, rents are not cheap,
2.- buy local health insurance, Medical Treatment in Mexico is very expensive, if you get sick you can spend all your life savings very fast,
I recommend to buy the Inbursa Plan (www.segurosinbursa.com) with a $10,000 pesos "deducible", instead of the normal $3000, this will cut the annual cost by 70%, Medical Insurance will cost a few hundred dollars a year but may save you a lot of $$$,
3.- TIMING is very important, (ex., today is a good day to move to Argentina, the recent 3.6 to 1 devaluation of the Arg. Peso helps A LOT!!, I believe the Mexican Peso will devaluate VERY soon...)
P.S.
If you have a good house/income and you are an "ok guy", you will have a young, beautiful mexican girl in your bed very soon, you don't have to do anything, she will find you,
Cupido Morboso
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09-22-02 02:54 #26
Posts: 197sorry el mojado, you lost me after the 3rd paragraph....too long!!
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09-16-02 02:54 #25
Posts: 52Hi Miller2K & Proko!
Thanks for your replies on here.. and yes, I will admit myself that when I was involved with my girlfriend in Mexico it was a very beautiful thing. I was faithful to her our entire relationship and I really cared about her. Not surprisingly, I became very close to her family and I am still in touch with them. They love me to death and were very shocked at her actions and saddened by the end of the relationship. And as strange as it may sound to some, but you two and anyone else who's been loved not just by a Mexicana but by her family, they still care about me a lot and I still visit them every time I am in Mexico out of caring and respect. Plus I made some really special ties there. I've watched some of my "neices and nephews" (They still insist on calling me "Uncle" and treat me as part of their family) grow and learn and I've encouraged them to do well in their studies. They live in a very small town with no paved roads just outside of La Piedad in Michoacan.
So... in many ways I agree with you both -- A mexican girlfriend and a Mexican wife are the only way I would have a girlfriend and marry and would certainly be much better than risking HIV and STD's and bad experiences with SW's and such... but I don't know if I'm ready to "settle down" just yet. And I really would not even touch a U.S. woman (from my area, SF bay area) with my worst enemy's penis!!! I don't know what it's like for other people in less "tech" areas in the U.S. but this is the shit hole of the universe it seems when it comes to really mean, cut-throat and materialistic women. I'm a "nice guy" and they simply eat us up alive here. When I am in Mexico, the women warm up so much to the "nice guy" that it's a wonderful experience... and more so with the SW's They appreciate us all the more because when you treat them with respect and caring they return it 5 times as much.
The women I mentioned in my other post, I gave them food and candy for their children after we had spent the night together. I took them out to the cab and paid the cab fare myself in my pantuflas (slippers) the next morning, and two of these women actually let me come over and see them at their homes and I met their children. It didn't happen right away but that to me is much more valuable than a $200 pesos 15-min "release". And though these women do what they do, they love their children, they honor their children and they deserve our respect even when you're haggling about price. (and no, the children didn't know I was a "John", I was introduced as a visiting teacher from the U.S.)
The women I had these experiences with live in Uruapan. One I lost touch with sadly - she may still be there and if she is, she worked at the stripper club called "Western Dance" and went by the name of "Yasmin". She is in her early 30's now and was widowed when her husband was killed in a drug related situation 6 years ago (He was from Apatzingan, a very rough place notorious for Narcos) and left her with 5 children to raise on her own. Her house was really tiny, cinderblock and tin roof 1 room home with a makeshift "room" on the roof for her oldest sons and in an unincorporated area of Uruapan past the Colonia Sol Naciente where the streets are dirt and the homes have no running water and only a few have electricity. I always brought things for all 5 of the children and some of the neighbor kids whenever I came to Uruapan and that helped keep them thinking I was a teacher and they actually used the materials - notebooks, pencils, pens, and such and appreciated them more than the candy I brought (and toothbrushes too).
This woman (Yasmine) NEVER charged me more than $350 pesos for an entire night with her, and at times I gave her a little more but she never asked for more. She showed me pictures of herself and her family and husband when he was alive from an album she had and she lived better before and she was shown filming her family with a videocamera in one pic and obviously wasn't as impoverished all her life. She has a sister who lives in Col Sol Naciente who lives in a very nice house and she helps Yasmine out with the kids a lot and Yasmine seems to get by. It's a hard life and I know she appreciated my friendship, even though I was a "john".
The other woman, a very attractive 24 year old who celebrates her birthday in late November, has two children and her husband left the U.S. and stopped sending her money after a few months and stopped contact. He could be incarcerated or maybe he figured he'd be better off with another lady here in the U.S. and he could forget about the two kids he had with her. She goes by "Andrea" and was at the "Club Tabledance" in Uruapan. She let me videotape her before we "did the deed" She probably would have let me tape the "deed" but I didn't think it was appropriate to do that or ask for that. It would have been one hot video though... she must not have had sex for a while because she just would not stop and after I shot my load she lied with me and cuddled me for a while and then asked me if I had more condoms... That got me going and she "jump started" me literally and I can still remember the sensations! We've stayed in contact via snail mail and she sent me pics of her playing with her kids and I actually met her once at her house and delivered some of those "blo-pens" for her kids and some candy and she received me and hugged me lightly and kissed me on the cheeks in the traditional friend greeting of Mexico. I didn't want to attract any strange attention to her because she is a married woman and lives a few doors down from her parents, so I politely talked with her just inside the doorway and arranged for that evenings "pachanga" later at my hotel.
I plan on seeing her again and definitely in remaining friends no matter what happens. She's sent me some information regarding rentals in Uruapan, but it's just very hard to find much over there and I do not expect her to mail stuff out to me at $15 USD a pop through Mexico Express. I'd rather she spend her money on her kids and I'll find something some other way.
Anyway... these are the kinds of experiences I crave -- it's human contact and that's so lacking in the states at least where I live. I know it's "against the code" to marry one of these ladies but being friends with them is something I want and that comes naturally. I want to know I can trust the woman I'm sleeping with in the event I do fall asleep in her arms. I don't want to wind up like that song "Trendy" Ricky Martin sings (La Vida Loca...)
And I know what happens when you sleep with a woman from this area of the U.S.... she'll cut off your balls rip your wings off, hermano!
So this is a long post and the topic is not the "standard" on here as I've seen over the year I've been reading this site. But in the end, Yes... I would really love to be in a loving relationship with just one woman who appreciated me and truly cared about me. Until that day comes, I'll be checking this site and looking forward to being in Mexico.
Regarding the economics of Mexico, I'll email you at your email more with info and questions on that (and Uruapan, which I'll post again here for the "People"). But I will say this... I don't mind living in an area with little "creature comforts". Just give me some electricity, a Tinaco on my roof that gets warm at mid-day so I can take a shower without freezing my balls off, a 2 burner propane camp stove and two sinks... one for cooking (with maybe a 3/4 HP garbage disposal that I'll bring from the US), and one where I can handwash my clothes on those rippled things. I don't mind washing clothing at all that way. For sensitive stuff, I can always contract it out to someone in the neighborhood after figuring out who would do it for some money and maybe some english help or help with something else. I don't think I want a phone though I'd miss the internet. Still, living over there what would I need the internet for Cybercafes are cheap and if you take a used laptop with you as you cross the border (free, not tax) you can write and edit any email you want to send and just cut and paste it at the cybercafe and you're done in 10 minutes and you can send about 5 long messages as attachments or as cut and pasted emails.
Anyway... this is long - hopefully not too long.
Thanks for your comments on here and I'm really glad to hear that you have a wonderful girlfriend now Miller2K! Just don't bring her to the U.S. or she might turn bad :/ I'll tell you more about that in the email, at least my observations of what I have seen happen over the years.
Sincerely,
El Mojado...
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09-15-02 06:53 #24
Posts: 329Sorry if I've been a bit indifferent about posting lately, there've been a few unpleasant experiences that have made me question the point of posting here...but then a post like Mojado's comes along...
As usual, Proko is right about everything. Having a Mexican girlfriend is much better in the long run than going with SW's, club girls, or escorts (although these have almost always been tremendous experiences for me.) I've taken a break from my "hobby" because I'm now in a steady relationship and I couldn't be happier. When a Mexican woman is in love with you, she will give her entire being to you (almost to the point of making you feel guilty).
But, anyway, it's still great to just have some fun for a while, so I'll answer your questions, Mojado, to the best of my knowledge:
With a decent amount of effort on your part, you can pull in about 8-10 thousand pesos a month (at least 6) and that can pay your bills, pay for a couple of beautiful ladies, and still allow you to take an occasional vacation. I live in a neighboring small town so the cost of living is a lot lower and I can live comfortably (I have internet service, a satellite dish, a steady stream of mail-order products from the USA, and I still have enough to take two trips back to the USA a year. Of course, YMMV. Maybe if I lived in Morelia , with a lot more temptation to spend, I would have less (but I would also be able to charge my students more) So, it's all relative. Rents in Morelia vary from 1,500 to 10,000 pesos, depending on what you are looking for and where. Basically, everything in the city is good and there isn't much of a crime problem (compared to the other big cities). I've seen two bedroom apartments, close to the University area go for about 2,500 pesos. Personally, I would recommend ditching the truck before you come because many people drive insanely here and traffic in the downtown area is terrible. Also, there are some crazy traffic laws here that often are just pretexts from the transit cops to ask for a bribe. For 20-25 pesos a taxista will take you anywhere you need. Every person that I've met who's brought a car from the USA has regretted it. The money from the sale of your truck could mean another few months of easy living.
Morelia is my favorite place in Mexico because, aside from our hobby, the atmosphere is just awesome. The club life at night is small, but very warm and friendly and the people will open their arms to you and help you in the transition as you get accustomed to the city.
If there's anything else that you'd like to know, feel free to e-mail me at: justice4pm@hotmail.com
I'd be happy to help out in anyway possible and maybe you can give me a few tips on Uruapan.
Prokofiev: I've also been shut down with regard to oral sex with the SW's. There was only one time where I was able to get oral sex from a SW, but usually I go for the oral thing with the escorts. They are always game (Even most of the club girls balk at the idea). One SW asked me if the women in the USA were very "caliente". I asked why and she said that American men always ask for oral sex. From what was hinted at, many feel that oral sex is a perversion. Thank the Catholic Church for that! Even the prostitutes have moral hang-ups. But here's a tip, I bought some flavored condoms in the USA and brought them out before I asked for oral. The girl was amused and a bit curious and that was the one time that I got oral sex from a SW. It's worth a try if you don't mind covered BJ's.
Hope I helped....
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09-14-02 04:10 #23
Posts: 453Mojado,
Good to hear from someone new. I went to a Morelia massage parlor (actually a house) back in Feb and wrote about it. Look in the archives. But it was going to be 800 pesos,so it was not cheap. I know of no commercial establishment, like in Guadalajara.
In fact everything seems to be 150 or 200 on the street or 800 to 1000 from outcall services. See Millers and Cupidos recommendations.
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What I like most about Morelia is 1) the climate and 2) the friendly people. It has a more liberal attitude than other parts of Mexico. But it is not as cheap as some other cities.
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As far as other advice as to moving there, it depends on how old you are, do you have Mexican connections or heritage, money, a job and what do you want from life. You already know my take on things. Earn your money in the US and move later. You won't regret it. Miller has chosen another path and is happy. Also despite all our writings about SW's and call girls, in the end a girlfriend or wife is much more important - and I think Miller would agree with that. Pay for play wears thin REAL fast. It may be the spice of life, but it is not the main course. I can't imagine moving there for that reason. But why not have both? Dating Mexicanas has been more interesting and fun (albeit confusing) than 150 peso SW's.
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Miller can tell you more about actually living there and Cupido probably knows the most. Has (or had) a house in Morelia, I believe. Good luck. -P