Santiago

[Member #4398]

On this site, there is a listing of hotels from many towns of the DR, Santiago, Puerto Plata, Sosua, Santo Domingo, etc:

http://alojamientodominicano.com/provincia_santiago

[GrownMan1]

Toussaint also "freed" the east of the island from Spanish rule and ruled the whole island, nominally in the name of the French Republic There was no "Haiti" then, the whole island was one country called Saint Domingue. He was not interested in the Spanish parts and largely left them to their own devices (apart from abolishing slavery) as there were not many resources there. Apart from SD and Santiago, quite small towns at the time, the area was largely unpopulated and carried on localized ranching and logging. His only interest in occupying the east was to stop it being used as a backdoor for an invasion to restore slavery. In fact, when Napoleon's huge army arrived to restore slavery, the French fleet arrived at Samana so Toussaint's fears were justified.

A more important reason was they had no effective troops and what they did have were always fighting among themselves. They needed the powerful Haitian army to prevent reconquest by Spain or invasion by France, England or the USA.

Great additional info Charles ty I love history. Here's a question. How a people that had "no effective troops and were busy fighting among themselves stop the powerful Haitian army from taking over its country? How could Dominicans (who were heavily out number by millions) isolate the Haitian to the smaller part of the country? Could it be the same people they wanted to prevent reconquest or invasions were actually their allies and supply the resources. Haiti knew it a stayed in it place. Even to this day the relationship between the Euro nations and America is better than the relationship between Haiti and Dominican.

[Charles Pooter]

It is true Haiti freed itself from the French on the west side island of Hispaniola.

Toussaint also "freed" the east of the island from Spanish rule and ruled the whole island, nominally in the name of the French Republic There was no "Haiti" then, the whole island was one country called Saint Domingue. He was not interested in the Spanish parts and largely left them to their own devices (apart from abolishing slavery) as there were not many resources there. Apart from SD and Santiago, quite small towns at the time, the area was largely unpopulated and carried on localized ranching and logging. His only interest in occupying the east was to stop it being used as a backdoor for an invasion to restore slavery. In fact, when Napoleon's huge army arrived to restore slavery, the French fleet arrived at Samana so Toussaint's fears were justified.

... independent criollo class Dominican allow Haiti to come in there territory it was only political purposes. They felt Haiti had a lot of wealth opportunities and they wanted to get their hand in.

A more important reason was they had no effective troops and what they did have were always fighting among themselves. They needed the powerful Haitian army to prevent reconquest by Spain or invasion by France, England or the USA.

[GrownMan1]

Sitting here in Santiago mall all I can say is Damn!

[GrownMan1]

For example, me and a DC chica were strolling by Parque Independencia in SD, when I told her the history she seemed incredulous (or perhaps just bored).

Been there- done that. Trying to talk history with a Dominican or Haitian chica is like asking the American public what happen to the third building in 9/11.

[GrownMan1]

His-tory and History is why most people believed Columbus discovered America. Its true Haiti freed itself from the French on the west side island of Hispaniola; and independent criollo class Dominican allow Haiti to come in there territory it was only political purposes. They felt Haiti had a lot of wealth opportunities and they wanted to get their hand in. When that didn't work because the secret Haiti / French agreement was for Haiti to pay back France 60 million for its dependence. The Dominicans got the Haitian out of there country because having a broke ally didn't benefit them. His-tory calls it DR's Independence War. Read between the lines From Wikipedia:

The Dominican Independence War gave the Dominican Republic autonomy from Haiti on February 27,1844. Before the war, the island of Hispaniola had been united under the Haitian government for a period of 22 years when the newly independent nation was invaded by Haiti in 1822. Previously known as the Captaincy General of Santo Domingo, the criollo class within the country overthrew the Spanish crown in 1821 before unifying with Haiti a year later.

At the time Haiti had been more economically and militarily powerful and had a population 8 to 10 times larger than the former Spanish colony, having been the richest colony in the western hemisphere before the Haitian Revolution. Dominican military officers agreed to merge the newly independent nation with Haiti, as they sought for political stability under the Haitian president Jean-Pierre Boyer, and were attracted to Haiti's perceived wealth and power at the time. However, due to the Haitian government's mismanagement, heavy taxes, military disputes, and an economic crisis the Haitian government became increasingly unpopular, thus the Dominican people decided to forcefully overthrow the Haitian government with no compromises.

After winning the war and ousting the Haitian occupying force from the country, Dominican nationalists fought against a series of attempted Haitian invasions that served to consolidate their independence from 1844 to 1856. Under the command of the "emperor" Faustin Soulouque Haitian soldiers would make incessant attacks to try to gain back control of the territory, but these efforts were to no avail as the Dominicans would go on to decisively win every battle henceforth. Since then, Dominican-Haitian relations have been unstable.

Unification.

After promising his full support to several Dominican frontier governors and securing their allegiance, Boyer ceremoniously entered the country with around 10,000 soldiers in February 1822, encountering little to no opposition. On February 9, 1822, Boyer formally entered the capital city, Santo Domingo after its ephemeral independence, where he was met with enthusiasm and received by andez de seeceres who offered to him the keys of the Palace; Boyer rejected the offer saying: "I have not come into this city as a conqueror but by the will of its inhabitants". The island was thus united from "Cape Tiburon to Cape Samana in possession of one government. ".

I quoted His-tory so you can read between the lines better. From then until this day in DR its about economics. Dominicans are for Dominicans culturally. If you are a African American you are economic useful to the Dominican cultural and welcomed to an extent. If you are African Haitian well you know the deal. This is why when dark Dominicans come to me with that my brother shit I let them know: my passport say American; black people are not my brothers only Americans.

[Parkinsons]

Haiti ruled Dominican Republic until 1849. DR got their independence from Spain and decades later from Haiti.

It's worth noting that the DR identity of independence and liberation, the country's "founding fathers" being Duarte et al, all came from freedom from Haitian rule and not Spanish rule. Not sure what atrocities were inflicted upon the Dominicans by the Haitians? Or why Spain was viewed as such a benevolent colonizer. I bring this up because I wonder how many Dominicans truly know this and subconsciously display this in their anti-Haitian attitude. For example, me and a DC chica were strolling by Parque Independencia in SD, when I told her the history she seemed incredulous (or perhaps just bored).

I think it comes down to linguistic, cultural and lifestyle differences. I remember when I went to a prep school in south Texas, mainly white kids, a few blacks, were socializing no problems with kids' whose names were Garcia, Gonzales, Hernandez, etc. Obviously these Mexican kids (first and second generation) were Americanized enough to even play high school football. Years later I see on FB among these folks a few white-Mexican married couples, but at the same time some frequent anti-illegal immigration postings.

Back to black-white skin color schisms in the DR. It's not always clear cut, as in "light-skin folks only talk to their same kinds". Perhaps in the upper echelon of ruling political and business class, but not common folks. Every chica's house I've been to, light skin girls have dark skin family members; dark skin girls have light skin family members. I don't think Santiago is any different from other DR cities.

Also a lot of shit they do seems so racially offensive to us Americans but to Dominicans it's not racist at all. Can you imagine if I walk into my office and say "hey negro / morena how's that project coming along?" Or go to Wal-Mart and say "yo Chinaman / chino give me 5 of those". This however comes natural to Dominicans. I just shook my head when a chica commented "son todos prietos" when we drove by a packed bar. What the hell did that have to do with anything? And she is half dark.

[BoricuaOnline]

And one more thing my Oldkski brother who forgets money trumps color and age in the DR; Haiti ever ruled Dominican Land. DR was controlled by the Spanish and had former African slaves that mixed in with

Haiti ruled Dominican Republic until 1849. DR got their independence from Spain and decades later from Haiti.

[GrownMan1]

Oldkool oldkool oldkool. When you expressed concern for racism I thought you were worried about admission into colleges or getting promoted on your job, or gaining entry into a country club. So you're just worried about chicas?! If they don't like you then move on to the next one! Under what context are you expecting to interact with these chicas? I know you're not talking about the ones in Sosua, money is all they care about. Do you plan on picking up non-pros in Santiago? Keep hitting up enough of them until you find one! And when you get rejected, it may be your color, it may be you're a foreigner, it may be the way your dressed, who knows. Remember it's their loss, not yours. Sure Santiago has a lot of light-bright-almost-white girls, but there are a lot of dark-skinned folks in the population too. I hope you're not limiting yourself to only the white girls.
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And one more thing my Oldkski brother who forgets money trumps color and age in the DR; Haiti ever ruled Dominican Land. DR was controlled by the Spanish and had former African slaves that mixed in with the other nationalities and embraced its Spanish roots. One of the main reason why its more darker in other area of the DR is because these areas had higher concentration African slave were slave labor was used. The French had Africans slaves that rebelled against the French in only the French controlled area of Hispaniola.

[Parkinsons]

It goes back 150 years when Haiti ruled the DR. It was explained to me that the father of Dominicans were European but African for Haitians. Dominicans who are darker then me believe they are white. Dominicans are proud to the children of the slave master and believe this makes them superior. I had concerns about near white Santiago chicas inter acting with me an African American. In Sosua it is not a problem but in Santiago I have concerns.

Oldkool oldkool oldkool. When you expressed concern for racism I thought you were worried about admission into colleges or getting promoted on your job, or gaining entry into a country club. So you're just worried about chicas?! If they don't like you then move on to the next one! Under what context are you expecting to interact with these chicas? I know you're not talking about the ones in Sosua, money is all they care about. Do you plan on picking up non-pros in Santiago? Keep hitting up enough of them until you find one! And when you get rejected, it may be your color, it may be you're a foreigner, it may be the way your dressed, who knows. Remember it's their loss, not yours. Sure Santiago has a lot of light-bright-almost-white girls, but there are a lot of dark-skinned folks in the population too. I hope you're not limiting yourself to only the white girls.

Go to Pasions night club and see how you do there. Tons of white-skinned pros there available. I'd be surprised if you get turned down. But these girls are getting paid 4000 or 5000 pesos by local Dominicans. One member wrote a report few months back he got takeout for less.

I'd say in general don't worry about it. Being African American means you have cultural cool factor working for you. Hip hop, NBA, big anatomy, etc. The white chicas' parents may not want you married into their family but the young chica will go wild for you. The question "how will I do when I'm black / white / Asian in Colombia / DR / Timbuktu" will always be universally answered by the quote above, under the ISG Inc heading.

[Camaro1257]

It goes back 150 years when Haiti ruled the DR. It was explained to me that the father of Dominicans were European but African for Haitians. Dominicans who are darker then me believe they are white. Dominicans are proud to the children of the slave master and believe this makes them superior. I had concerns about near white Santiago chicas inter acting with me an African American. In Sosua it is not a problem but in Santiago I have concerns.

Both lions and tigers are panthera LEO however lions hunt in prides but tigers hunt solo, they also hunt in different terrain; they are similar but different. A lion cannot look at a tiger andask why do you hunt the way you do because the lions response will be "I am a lion and you are a tiger. " My point is mongers are similar but choose to hunt differently. I have traveled extensively outside of Sosua throughout the Island and I have seen the Dominican Republic is a fertile hunting field.

I find each area to be a little different from the other. Of course Santiago is different from Sosua it is the second largest city in Dominican Republic with a population of about 2 million where as Sosua is a small town with a population less than 50,000. There are pros and cons to hunting in both locations the issue for the monger is if they are a lion or a tiger.

[Mr Gogo]

It goes back 150 years when Haiti ruled the DR. It was explained to me that the father of Dominicans were European but African for Haitians. Dominicans who are darker then me believe they are white. Dominicans are proud to the children of the slave master and believe this makes them superior. I had concerns about near white Santiago chicas inter acting with me an African American. In Sosua it is not a problem but in Santiago I have concerns.

It required some deep soul searching for me as I discovered the DR and my affection for DR women Sir. Growing up in a " Black Mecca- chocolate city) which was Washington DC where we had the majority (80 percent) and a powerful upper and middle class with black businesses and colleges. I was pro black with no dating whites as the rule. Understand this was the 70's right after segregation. The interesting change came as I went to Medellin Colombia and discovered white beauty. I then asked myself if I was going to let race limit my options. Even though most Dominicans don't have true knowledge of self would that stop me from being happy with one? I wrestled with this for years and decided race issues wouldn't decide MY happiness. We choose to make race an issue and it still resonates with me but as I've grown older I've come to look beyond that and maybe ignore it. I'm on the final leg on this long race we call life and I try to keep an open mind and not let race deny me happiness.

[OldKool]

It goes back 150 years when Haiti ruled the DR. It was explained to me that the father of Dominicans were European but African for Haitians. Dominicans who are darker then me believe they are white. Dominicans are proud to the children of the slave master and believe this makes them superior. I had concerns about near white Santiago chicas inter acting with me an African American. In Sosua it is not a problem but in Santiago I have concerns.

The Anti-Haitianismo sentiments of Dominicans goes back to the Trujio era however it has not impacted me when I have been in Santiago as well as a few of my monger friends. However as in all things YMMV.

[Camaro1257]

I was just there and I asked a few Dominicans about race issues and was told there is a major problem between the Dominicans and Haitians. Santiago is a terrible place for mongers who don't live there, so stay in Sosua and the north coast. The dark women there that are Dominican say that they don't like the privileged treatment some of the lighter women get. Save your time and money and skip Santiago.

The Anti-Haitianismo sentiments of Dominicans goes back to the Trujio era however it has not impacted me when I have been in Santiago as well as a few of my monger friends. However as in all things YMMV.

[Mr Gogo]

I cannot speak for others but I have had no problems in Santiago. Actually I thought about moving there because they have some EXCELLENT apartments for around $300.00 a month. At the time I was seeing about 3 chics there even though I was living in Puerto Plata. I generally wear a polo shirt kaki's and casual shoes so nothing about me stands out. There are plenty of dark skinned people in Santiago so I think it only is painfully obvious I am a gringo when I start speaking.

I was just there and I asked a few Dominicans about race issues and was told there is a major problem between the Dominicans and Haitians. Santiago is a terrible place for mongers who don't live there, so stay in Sosua and the north coast. The dark women there that are Dominican say that they don't like the privileged treatment some of the lighter women get. Save your time and money and skip Santiago.