General Info

[GreenBud]

Your Schwab account acts much different than mine. The transaction shows in my account quickly.

The money is subtracted from your account immediately. What might confuse some people is that sometimes the transaction doesn't show up in the history buffer immediately, but your "balance available" will be subtracted instantaneously. No way Schwab will allow us to "double dip".

I don't remember if the fee showed separately. I do remember the refund was at the end of the month or the end of my statement period, not sure which one.

The refund is given to you at the end of the month.

The refund fee is given in a separate lump sum. That irritates me. Since it's given in a lump sum, you don't know which ATM charges, and the amount. Takes too much work for me if I want to calculate.

[Huacho]

Your Schwab account acts much different than mine. The transaction shows in my account quickly. After making a withdrawal, it shows in my account by the time I get back to my apartment. Until Friday, I hadn't made a withdrawal that charged a fee for years. I don't remember if the fee showed separately. I do remember the refund was at the end of the month or the end of my statement period, not sure which one.

I've had a Schwab checking account tied to a brokerage account for probably ten years. I don't keep any money in the brokerage account.

I've had mine for more like 25 years and I do have mid-five figures in the brokerage account. E-Trade, BTW, does charge (me) a 1% foreign transaction fee, and they do this even in Panamá where the USD is used. So, I use Schwab when traveling and E-Trade at home, since I like seeing the transaction instantly. Having both is not a bad idea IMO.

[Fun Luvr]

I have both Schwab and E-Trade. E-Trade the refund of the fee is instant and shown separately. Schwab, neither the withdrawal nor the refund show up until the next business day but again is shown separately. This has been true no matter what country I'm in. Others say they don't get their Schwab fees refunded until the end of the month; these people may have a slightly different type of account? IDK.

Your Schwab account acts much different than mine. The transaction shows in my account quickly. After making a withdrawal, it shows in my account by the time I get back to my apartment. Until Friday, I hadn't made a withdrawal that charged a fee for years. I don't remember if the fee showed separately. I do remember the refund was at the end of the month or the end of my statement period, not sure which one.

I've had a Schwab checking account tied to a brokerage account for probably ten years. I don't keep any money in the brokerage account.

[Bango Cheito]

In all of these discussions it seems like people are claiming that they get the mid-market rate somehow, whether it was from closing 2 business days back or whatever. Through the Visa or Mastercard clearing systems. What about the currency conversion cost? Visa and Mastercard supposedly charge 1%. So people say that gets refunded by Shwab or whoever, but I don't get how you can look at your bank statement and not see that?

In my case it is 2. 5 or 3. 5 percent and my bank (and all other Canadian banks) charge that. And in the past they did not use Visa or Mastercard for clearing, but now some do I think, but the minimum is 2. 5%. Anyway.

So with those using American banks. Who pays the 1% and do you see it on a statement anywhere or does Shwab just pay it directly to the clearing house.

All I know is that my cost is usually around 3% and I can get pissed off about it, or I can own bank stocks and collect dividends to recoup their highway robbery.

I actually do get the mid-market rate with my Schwab card and with my Capital One credit cards. Sometimes a little bit less, sometimes even better than mid market, but always within 1% or so, and it tracks very closely in all cases. I've been watching it for years now.

[Gabacho]

In all of these discussions it seems like people are claiming that they get the mid-market rate somehow, whether it was from closing 2 business days back or whatever. Through the Visa or Mastercard clearing systems. What about the currency conversion cost? Visa and Mastercard supposedly charge 1%. So people say that gets refunded by Shwab or whoever, but I don't get how you can look at your bank statement and not see that?

In my case it is 2. 5 or 3. 5 percent and my bank (and all other Canadian banks) charge that. And in the past they did not use Visa or Mastercard for clearing, but now some do I think, but the minimum is 2. 5%. Anyway.

So with those using American banks. Who pays the 1% and do you see it on a statement anywhere or does Shwab just pay it directly to the clearing house.

All I know is that my cost is usually around 3% and I can get pissed off about it, or I can own bank stocks and collect dividends to recoup their highway robbery.

There is no currency conversion costs. The amount is charged to your card in COP but when you check your app to see transactions it will show the amount in USD.

When you do the math and take the amount you withdrew in COP and divide it by the amount your app shows for the transaction in USD then that will give you a number around 4000 and you can then compare that number to what Google says the exchange rate is (mid-market rate).

Used to always be spot on (within 50 COP) of what Google stated.

Now I'm not so sure after reading FunLover's report and my latest experience with Davivienda where I felt like they were stealing 10 mil pesos from me according to what I should have been able to pull out.

And it may sound like complaining about 10 mil or 15 mil is stupid but these days everything is getting more expensive and we've been constantly getting less and less pesos for our dollars. When I first moved into my apartment and was buying my furniture and appliances I was getting 5,000 COP per dollar; now I'm fighting for 4,000 per dollar.

[Huacho]

So with those using American banks. Who pays the 1% and do you see it on a statement anywhere or does Shwab just pay it directly to the clearing house. All I know is that my cost is usually around 3% and I can get pissed off about it, or I can own bank stocks and collect dividends to recoup their highway robbery.

I have both Schwab and E-Trade. E-Trade the refund of the fee is instant and shown separately. Schwab, neither the withdrawal nor the refund show up until the next business day but again is shown separately. This has been true no matter what country I'm in. Others say they don't get their Schwab fees refunded until the end of the month; these people may have a slightly different type of account? IDK.

[Gabacho]

I withdrew on Dec 2nd mutiple times and they didn't charge the fee, then on Dec 7th they did. I always had limit of 400 k in Davivienda for some reason, so 15 k is expensive for that now.

Colpatria used to be free but is 18.5 k for up to 900 k, since like half a year ago.

Banco de Bogota reportedly up to 1500 k for 18.5 k fee, but I didn't try personally.

Banco de Pichincha had no fee but they closed up the branch in centro, the is another ATM and branch in Poblado apparently but a bit is too far away for me to travel just for that.

Caja Social gives me up to 300 k option, no fee, but unspecified error when withdrawing on both Visa and Mastercard, so it doesn't work.

BBVA 600 k for around 20 mil fee if I remember correctly.

So at the moment for me Servibanca comes as the cheapest and most convenient with up to 2000 k withdrawal for 22.5 k fee (and it works).

OK so we are having very different results in respect to limits and fees. This ID the breakdown for me using mastercard from Capital One.

Davivienda 2'000'000 - never used to be a fee (possibly a hidden 15 k now).

BBVA 300'000 - no fee until March of 2023 (18 k fee since March 2023).

Caja Social - 300'000 - no fee whatsoever and does work.

Colpatria / Scotiabank. Has never worked for me.

Banco de Bogota. Rarely used I don't remember limit. I think 18 k fee.

Banco de Pinchicha. Never used it.

[Zeos1]

They ALL charge fees now, but Servibanca allows you to take up to 2 million at once. And if you have Schwab, those fees get refunded anyway.

What's up in the air is whether Davivienda's fees get refunded or not, since they appear not to appear as separate fees, or maybe they do.

In all of these discussions it seems like people are claiming that they get the mid-market rate somehow, whether it was from closing 2 business days back or whatever. Through the Visa or Mastercard clearing systems. What about the currency conversion cost? Visa and Mastercard supposedly charge 1%. So people say that gets refunded by Shwab or whoever, but I don't get how you can look at your bank statement and not see that?

In my case it is 2. 5 or 3. 5 percent and my bank (and all other Canadian banks) charge that. And in the past they did not use Visa or Mastercard for clearing, but now some do I think, but the minimum is 2. 5%. Anyway.

So with those using American banks. Who pays the 1% and do you see it on a statement anywhere or does Shwab just pay it directly to the clearing house.

All I know is that my cost is usually around 3% and I can get pissed off about it, or I can own bank stocks and collect dividends to recoup their highway robbery.

[AdamWl]

Not sure what card you are using but I use Capital One with a mastercard logo and the maximum I can withdrawl us 2,000,000 COP per transaction and it doesn't charge me any 15 k fee. And when doing the math, the rate I receive is in line with that of Google.

I last used the ATM on Dec 4th and will be using it again this coming Monday and will report back here what happens.

I withdrew on Dec 2nd mutiple times and they didn't charge the fee, then on Dec 7th they did. I always had limit of 400 k in Davivienda for some reason, so 15 k is expensive for that now.

Colpatria used to be free but is 18.5 k for up to 900 k, since like half a year ago.

Banco de Bogota reportedly up to 1500 k for 18.5 k fee.

Banco Pichincha had no fee but they closed up the branch in centro, the is another ATM and branch in Poblado apparently but a bit is too far away for me to travel just for that.

Caja Social gives me up to 300 k option, no fee, but unspecified error when withdrawing on both Visa and Mastercard, so it doesn't work.

BBVA 600 k for around 20 mil fee if I remember correctly.

So at the moment for me Servibanca comes as the cheapest and most convenient with up to 2000 k withdrawal for 22.5 k fee (and it works).

[Bango Cheito]

So Servibanca is another one that doesn't charge any fees??

I walk past their atms whenever I go to terminal de norte and I used to always go right past them at the entrance there to go inside and use Davivienda, this was months ago tho.

I never knew they were also a fee-free ATM, I only knew about Davivienda and Caja Social and before March of this year BBVA.

They ALL charge fees now, but Servibanca allows you to take up to 2 million at once. And if you have Schwab, those fees get refunded anyway.

What's up in the air is whether Davivienda's fees get refunded or not, since they appear not to appear as separate fees, or maybe they do.

[Gabacho]

I've suspected this myself, and usually use Servibanca for that reason.

Please let us know at the end of the month whether Schwab refunds it or not.

So Servibanca is another one that doesn't charge any fees??

I walk past their atms whenever I go to terminal de norte and I used to always go right past them at the entrance there to go inside and use Davivienda, this was months ago tho.

I never knew they were also a fee-free ATM, I only knew about Davivienda and Caja Social and before March of this year BBVA.

[Gabacho]

Yes, Davivienda started charging 15 k fee somewhere at the beginning of this month.

What's fucked up is they don't put any warning at the ATM and paper receipt says fee equals 0.

I have Visa debit card and I see the fee on my ATM statement in the app (Revolut).

Other people reported this too, check Medellin Expats FB group.

Well if this is the case then we will off have to go back to using Caja Social and make like 7 withdrawals at a time and then take all the 100 mil notes inside the bank to have them changed for 50 mil notes.

[Gabacho]

Assuming your time quote is correct, the exchange rate at 5:30 pm on Wednesday was 3993.37. I only used the 3 pm time because you previously stated that the rate had not been 3999 all week. At one point Wednesday, it was 4001. XE states on their web site that they use midmarket rates. All of my references to rates, except the Visa rate, are from XE.

The same way that the banks which disclose the fee do it, they add the fee to the amount requested and submit that amount to the clearing house (either Visa or MasterCard). As to your question about disclosing the fee, I don't know the banking laws in Colombia. I have no idea if it's a requirement to disclose the fees. I understand your reasoning of why do banks do it if not required.

I did the two withdrawals at 1:15:53 pm and 1:17:47 pm, local time (6:15:53 pm UTC). So the exchange rate should have been the same for both. I was charged $503.82 for one transaction. Using the Visa exchange rate (3999.43), I should have received 2,014,922.82, or 2,015,000 rounded. I received 2,000,000. $383.81 for the other transaction, which should be 1,535,021.23, or 1,535,000 rounded. I received 1,520,000. That is how I deciphered that there was a 15,000 fee. I'm fairly certain the exchange rate from Visa didn't change between the two transactions.

You might be right then. I still think they should have to disclose the fee and ask you to accept or decline it. Adding it into the exchange rate and not asking you to accept it should be illegal and grounds for a law suit. Now that I think about it the last time I made a withdrawal at Davivienda the amount I calculated that would work was declined and then I tried again for 10 mil less and it went through. Also I got a notification on my phone from capital one saying that I didn't have enough money in my account to cover the withdrawal of $XXX. XX and the amount shown was less than what my avaible balance was, which I thought was weird. If it happens again this Monday I'll take screen shots and post here.

[Fun Luvr]

Furthermore, after doing some research I found that the exchange rate isn't even determined by the ATM owner, it is determined by either visa or mastercard (depending on the logo on your debit card) and it is based off of something called the midmarket exchange rate at 5:30 pm UTC time from two business days prior.

Assuming your time quote is correct, the exchange rate at 5:30 pm on Wednesday was 3993.37. I only used the 3 pm time because you previously stated that the rate had not been 3999 all week. At one point Wednesday, it was 4001. XE states on their web site that they use midmarket rates. All of my references to rates, except the Visa rate, are from XE.

So with that being the case how exactly would Davivienda be able to sneak a 15 k hidden fee into the exchange rate if they aren't even able to control the exchange rate?

The same way that the banks which disclose the fee do it, they add the fee to the amount requested and submit that amount to the clearing house (either Visa or MasterCard). As to your question about disclosing the fee, I don't know the banking laws in Colombia. I have no idea if it's a requirement to disclose the fees. I understand your reasoning of why do banks do it if not required.

I did the two withdrawals at 1:15:53 pm and 1:17:47 pm, local time (6:15:53 pm UTC). So the exchange rate should have been the same for both. I was charged $503.82 for one transaction. Using the Visa exchange rate (3999.43), I should have received 2,014,922.82, or 2,015,000 rounded. I received 2,000,000. $383.81 for the other transaction, which should be 1,535,021.23, or 1,535,000 rounded. I received 1,520,000. That is how I deciphered that there was a 15,000 fee. I'm fairly certain the exchange rate from Visa didn't change between the two transactions.

[Gabacho]

Yes, Davivienda started charging 15 k fee somewhere at the beginning of this month.

What's fucked up is they don't put any warning at the ATM and paper receipt says fee equals 0.

I have Visa debit card and I see the fee on my ATM statement in the app (Revolut).

Other people reported this too, check Medellin Expats FB group.

Not sure what card you are using but I use Capital One with a mastercard logo and the maximum I can withdrawl us 2,000,000 COP per transaction and it doesn't charge me any 15 k fee. And when doing the math, the rate I receive is in line with that of Google.

I last used the ATM on Dec 4th and will be using it again this coming Monday and will report back here what happens.