General Info

[Huacho]

So with those using American banks. Who pays the 1% and do you see it on a statement anywhere or does Shwab just pay it directly to the clearing house. All I know is that my cost is usually around 3% and I can get pissed off about it, or I can own bank stocks and collect dividends to recoup their highway robbery.

I have both Schwab and E-Trade. E-Trade the refund of the fee is instant and shown separately. Schwab, neither the withdrawal nor the refund show up until the next business day but again is shown separately. This has been true no matter what country I'm in. Others say they don't get their Schwab fees refunded until the end of the month; these people may have a slightly different type of account? IDK.

[Gabacho]

I withdrew on Dec 2nd mutiple times and they didn't charge the fee, then on Dec 7th they did. I always had limit of 400 k in Davivienda for some reason, so 15 k is expensive for that now.

Colpatria used to be free but is 18.5 k for up to 900 k, since like half a year ago.

Banco de Bogota reportedly up to 1500 k for 18.5 k fee, but I didn't try personally.

Banco de Pichincha had no fee but they closed up the branch in centro, the is another ATM and branch in Poblado apparently but a bit is too far away for me to travel just for that.

Caja Social gives me up to 300 k option, no fee, but unspecified error when withdrawing on both Visa and Mastercard, so it doesn't work.

BBVA 600 k for around 20 mil fee if I remember correctly.

So at the moment for me Servibanca comes as the cheapest and most convenient with up to 2000 k withdrawal for 22.5 k fee (and it works).

OK so we are having very different results in respect to limits and fees. This ID the breakdown for me using mastercard from Capital One.

Davivienda 2'000'000 - never used to be a fee (possibly a hidden 15 k now).

BBVA 300'000 - no fee until March of 2023 (18 k fee since March 2023).

Caja Social - 300'000 - no fee whatsoever and does work.

Colpatria / Scotiabank. Has never worked for me.

Banco de Bogota. Rarely used I don't remember limit. I think 18 k fee.

Banco de Pinchicha. Never used it.

[Zeos1]

They ALL charge fees now, but Servibanca allows you to take up to 2 million at once. And if you have Schwab, those fees get refunded anyway.

What's up in the air is whether Davivienda's fees get refunded or not, since they appear not to appear as separate fees, or maybe they do.

In all of these discussions it seems like people are claiming that they get the mid-market rate somehow, whether it was from closing 2 business days back or whatever. Through the Visa or Mastercard clearing systems. What about the currency conversion cost? Visa and Mastercard supposedly charge 1%. So people say that gets refunded by Shwab or whoever, but I don't get how you can look at your bank statement and not see that?

In my case it is 2. 5 or 3. 5 percent and my bank (and all other Canadian banks) charge that. And in the past they did not use Visa or Mastercard for clearing, but now some do I think, but the minimum is 2. 5%. Anyway.

So with those using American banks. Who pays the 1% and do you see it on a statement anywhere or does Shwab just pay it directly to the clearing house.

All I know is that my cost is usually around 3% and I can get pissed off about it, or I can own bank stocks and collect dividends to recoup their highway robbery.

[AdamWl]

Not sure what card you are using but I use Capital One with a mastercard logo and the maximum I can withdrawl us 2,000,000 COP per transaction and it doesn't charge me any 15 k fee. And when doing the math, the rate I receive is in line with that of Google.

I last used the ATM on Dec 4th and will be using it again this coming Monday and will report back here what happens.

I withdrew on Dec 2nd mutiple times and they didn't charge the fee, then on Dec 7th they did. I always had limit of 400 k in Davivienda for some reason, so 15 k is expensive for that now.

Colpatria used to be free but is 18.5 k for up to 900 k, since like half a year ago.

Banco de Bogota reportedly up to 1500 k for 18.5 k fee.

Banco Pichincha had no fee but they closed up the branch in centro, the is another ATM and branch in Poblado apparently but a bit is too far away for me to travel just for that.

Caja Social gives me up to 300 k option, no fee, but unspecified error when withdrawing on both Visa and Mastercard, so it doesn't work.

BBVA 600 k for around 20 mil fee if I remember correctly.

So at the moment for me Servibanca comes as the cheapest and most convenient with up to 2000 k withdrawal for 22.5 k fee (and it works).

[Bango Cheito]

So Servibanca is another one that doesn't charge any fees??

I walk past their atms whenever I go to terminal de norte and I used to always go right past them at the entrance there to go inside and use Davivienda, this was months ago tho.

I never knew they were also a fee-free ATM, I only knew about Davivienda and Caja Social and before March of this year BBVA.

They ALL charge fees now, but Servibanca allows you to take up to 2 million at once. And if you have Schwab, those fees get refunded anyway.

What's up in the air is whether Davivienda's fees get refunded or not, since they appear not to appear as separate fees, or maybe they do.

[Gabacho]

I've suspected this myself, and usually use Servibanca for that reason.

Please let us know at the end of the month whether Schwab refunds it or not.

So Servibanca is another one that doesn't charge any fees??

I walk past their atms whenever I go to terminal de norte and I used to always go right past them at the entrance there to go inside and use Davivienda, this was months ago tho.

I never knew they were also a fee-free ATM, I only knew about Davivienda and Caja Social and before March of this year BBVA.

[Gabacho]

Yes, Davivienda started charging 15 k fee somewhere at the beginning of this month.

What's fucked up is they don't put any warning at the ATM and paper receipt says fee equals 0.

I have Visa debit card and I see the fee on my ATM statement in the app (Revolut).

Other people reported this too, check Medellin Expats FB group.

Well if this is the case then we will off have to go back to using Caja Social and make like 7 withdrawals at a time and then take all the 100 mil notes inside the bank to have them changed for 50 mil notes.

[Gabacho]

Assuming your time quote is correct, the exchange rate at 5:30 pm on Wednesday was 3993.37. I only used the 3 pm time because you previously stated that the rate had not been 3999 all week. At one point Wednesday, it was 4001. XE states on their web site that they use midmarket rates. All of my references to rates, except the Visa rate, are from XE.

The same way that the banks which disclose the fee do it, they add the fee to the amount requested and submit that amount to the clearing house (either Visa or MasterCard). As to your question about disclosing the fee, I don't know the banking laws in Colombia. I have no idea if it's a requirement to disclose the fees. I understand your reasoning of why do banks do it if not required.

I did the two withdrawals at 1:15:53 pm and 1:17:47 pm, local time (6:15:53 pm UTC). So the exchange rate should have been the same for both. I was charged $503.82 for one transaction. Using the Visa exchange rate (3999.43), I should have received 2,014,922.82, or 2,015,000 rounded. I received 2,000,000. $383.81 for the other transaction, which should be 1,535,021.23, or 1,535,000 rounded. I received 1,520,000. That is how I deciphered that there was a 15,000 fee. I'm fairly certain the exchange rate from Visa didn't change between the two transactions.

You might be right then. I still think they should have to disclose the fee and ask you to accept or decline it. Adding it into the exchange rate and not asking you to accept it should be illegal and grounds for a law suit. Now that I think about it the last time I made a withdrawal at Davivienda the amount I calculated that would work was declined and then I tried again for 10 mil less and it went through. Also I got a notification on my phone from capital one saying that I didn't have enough money in my account to cover the withdrawal of $XXX. XX and the amount shown was less than what my avaible balance was, which I thought was weird. If it happens again this Monday I'll take screen shots and post here.

[Fun Luvr]

Furthermore, after doing some research I found that the exchange rate isn't even determined by the ATM owner, it is determined by either visa or mastercard (depending on the logo on your debit card) and it is based off of something called the midmarket exchange rate at 5:30 pm UTC time from two business days prior.

Assuming your time quote is correct, the exchange rate at 5:30 pm on Wednesday was 3993.37. I only used the 3 pm time because you previously stated that the rate had not been 3999 all week. At one point Wednesday, it was 4001. XE states on their web site that they use midmarket rates. All of my references to rates, except the Visa rate, are from XE.

So with that being the case how exactly would Davivienda be able to sneak a 15 k hidden fee into the exchange rate if they aren't even able to control the exchange rate?

The same way that the banks which disclose the fee do it, they add the fee to the amount requested and submit that amount to the clearing house (either Visa or MasterCard). As to your question about disclosing the fee, I don't know the banking laws in Colombia. I have no idea if it's a requirement to disclose the fees. I understand your reasoning of why do banks do it if not required.

I did the two withdrawals at 1:15:53 pm and 1:17:47 pm, local time (6:15:53 pm UTC). So the exchange rate should have been the same for both. I was charged $503.82 for one transaction. Using the Visa exchange rate (3999.43), I should have received 2,014,922.82, or 2,015,000 rounded. I received 2,000,000. $383.81 for the other transaction, which should be 1,535,021.23, or 1,535,000 rounded. I received 1,520,000. That is how I deciphered that there was a 15,000 fee. I'm fairly certain the exchange rate from Visa didn't change between the two transactions.

[Gabacho]

Yes, Davivienda started charging 15 k fee somewhere at the beginning of this month.

What's fucked up is they don't put any warning at the ATM and paper receipt says fee equals 0.

I have Visa debit card and I see the fee on my ATM statement in the app (Revolut).

Other people reported this too, check Medellin Expats FB group.

Not sure what card you are using but I use Capital One with a mastercard logo and the maximum I can withdrawl us 2,000,000 COP per transaction and it doesn't charge me any 15 k fee. And when doing the math, the rate I receive is in line with that of Google.

I last used the ATM on Dec 4th and will be using it again this coming Monday and will report back here what happens.

[AdamWl]

Yes, Davivienda started charging 15 k fee somewhere at the beginning of this month.

What's fucked up is they don't put any warning at the ATM and paper receipt says fee equals 0.

I have Visa debit card and I see the fee on my ATM statement in the app (Revolut).

Other people reported this too, check Medellin Expats FB group.

[Gabacho]

Your problems start with "ATM exchange rate". Decline the bank's exchange rate and let your credit card or US bank handle the exchange via their commercial rate.

I don't think that he's that stupid.

I think he is declining the Davivienda exchange rate and he is trying to say that Davivienda is somehow sneaking a 15 k COP into the mid-market rate calculated by visa or mastercard. This is evidenced by his original post when he stated he was charged 2 different rates of 3969 per dollar and then 3960 per dollar. What in fact happened is that each day during the week the rate changes at the ATM at around 3 pm and his firdt withdraw was before they changed for that day and his second withdraw (even if it was back to back) was most likely right after the rate had been changed for the day.

If you look at the screen shots I posted the closing rate on Wednesday was at 3970 per dollar and the day after that it closed around 3960.

[Fun Luvr]

Your problems start with "ATM exchange rate". Decline the bank's exchange rate and let your credit card or US bank handle the exchange via their commercial rate.

You didn't see this in my report "declining the bank exchange rate each time"?

[DiscoverFL]

In the past, it was rather consistent, the ATM exchange rate would follow the XE.com rate by two days and be almost the same as the Visa foreign exchange rate of the day of the transaction. That may not have been true today. The Visa rate is 3999.43. I went to a Davivienda ATM and withdrew 2,000,000 and immediately afterward withdrew 1,520,000, declining the bank exchange rate each time. When I checked my Schwab bank account, I received 3969.67/1 for the 2,000,000 transaction and 3960.21/1 for the 1,520,000 transaction. The receipt shows 0 transaction fee. Analyzing those transactions indicates that Davivienda is now charging 15,000 transaction fee. That wouldn't be a problem if they specified a transaction fee, since Schwab will refund any fee that is listed separately. I'm curious if anyone else has had a similar experience with Davivienda. I used the ATM on LA 70 in Laureles. I think Davivienda has been almost the last bank to not charge ATM fees. That may have changed.

Your problems start with "ATM exchange rate". Decline the bank's exchange rate and let your credit card or US bank handle the exchange via their commercial rate.

[Gabacho]

Looking at XE.com, at 3 pm on Wednesday, it was 3999.43.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you are correct and Davivienda is charging a fee of 15 mil pesos per withdrawal. Legally wouldn't they have to disclose the fact that they are charging a 15 mil fee and ask the user to accept or decline it?

Every other ATM that charges a fee such as Bancolombia and the others all disclose their fee and give the option to decline or accept it. If it wasn't required to disclose it, I'm sure the other banks wouldn't ask they would just hide the fee too. So how do you explain that Davivienda could legally hide a fee in their exchange rate and the other banks can't?

Furthermore, after doing some research I found that the exchange rate isn't even determined by the ATM owner, it is determined by either visa or mastercard (depending on the logo on your debit card) and it is based off of something called the midmarket exchange rate at 5:30 pm UTC time from two business days prior.

So with that being the case how exactly would Davivienda be able to sneak a 15 k hidden fee into the exchange rate if they aren't even able to control the exchange rate?