Bogota Reports

[Coupe66]

We all have different backgrounds, personal experiences and personalities. Some people on the board might have suggested you to go to a hotel close to Santa Fe because it is OK for them. It s OK for them because they are used to travel in third world countries, speak spanish, are adventurous and so on. But as far as I can see from your previous posts, a hotel close to sante Fe is not for you. I would suggest you to cancel your reservation and get a hotel in the Northern Area. Your travel experience will be much better. I have lived and travelled in more than 80 countries in the 5 continents, including each country of the top ten most dagerous countries of the world, I live in Colombia for five year, I have been in any corner of the country, but I would never stay in a hotel close to Sante Fe just to save a couple of bucks.

Hi Routard, I sent you a PM yon this subject, please have a quick look when you have a chance.

[JjBee62]

I try to be helpful because others, including Mr Enternational, have helped me. Often they've helped me by telling me "dude, you're over thinking it. Just go."

My upbringing is 180° out from Mr. E. I'm a white guy from a farm town. We didn't have crime. I never had a key to the house I grew up in, because it was never locked, day or night, not even when we were all gone for several days. The only people I was afraid of were black guys from the ghetto, not that we had any of them around, or any ghettos either.

What's lacking here is a matter of perspective. Bogota is a city of over 10 million. It has a very high population density. Crime rates and population density go together. However, contrary to what some might say, most crimes happen in the poorest areas.

The typical criminal isn't among the intellectual elite. They are opportunists. Who is some poor working girl going to call when some guy snatches her phone? Nobody. She has no phone. Even the murders in the Estrato 1 and 2 barrios don't make the news, unless they're particularly gruesome, or involve a tourist or someone with money.

The crimes you hear about are the ones that happen to tourists. Then other potential tourists repeat the stories and it seems like a death sentence to visit. It isn't.

My first big city experience was a drunken night in Milwaukee, where I ended up in a black ghetto bar, surrounded by black guys from the ghetto. Apparently, they aren't all that dangerous, because I survived. My perspective changed.

When I've been to Bogota, I've preferred to stay north. I also prefer to use the Transmilenio. I usually don't stay out very late at night, so I've not needed taxis. When I do use a taxi, I either go to a place where many taxis are staged, or I use an app to send for a taxi. Whenever feasible, I prefer to walk.

Walking lets me get a feel for the city, the culture and the people. At a whim, I can stop in a store and look around, or stop someone and ask a question. There are bars, coffee shops and restaurants. My opinion is why travel if all you'll see is a hotel room, a taxi and the inside of a brothel? Others feel any time not spent having sex is wasted.

I'm a firm believer in doing your research. I did enough research on Bogota before my first visit, I was able to recommend restaurants to people who had lived there for years. However, no research will tell you how you'll feel once you're there.

There are plenty of things written about reducing your risk. Pay attention to them. You don't need a wristwatch, rings, necklaces or earrings. Why wear them? You don't need an iPhone X. If you're there for a month, pick up a Huawei and carry it. Or bring a cheap phone to use. You don't need a wallet. Replacing all the things in your wallet is a pain. This is all about minimizing your losses. If someone wants your money and phone, you're handing over $100-$200 USD. Give it up and get out of the area.

After minimizing losses comes minimizing risks. Leaving the jewelry at home and dressing normal is a start. Everyone knows your a tourist, but nobody knows if you're a rich tourist or a poor tourist. It really doesn't matter what shirt you wear, unless you're into designer clothes. Dress comfortable, which in Bogota means you might want long sleeves, or a jacket.

I'm convinced that the biggest part of not being a victim is not looking like a victim. If you're stopping every 20 yards looking at addresses, or checking your map, you look like a victim. If you're constantly turning in all directions trying to figure out which of the 1000 people on the street are the criminals, you look like a victim. If you look like you're going to run away screaming if someone taps you on the shoulder, you look like a victim.

Move with the flow of people. Move too fast or too slow and you stand out. Know where you're going, even if you're lost. Find a business you can step inside to check your map. Remember where the busy streets were, in case you find yourself on a street that makes you nervous. That way you know which way to turn to get back to more comfortable streets. If you're feeling overwhelmed, step inside a business and relax.

Take all advice with a grain of salt. Don't base your perspective on what other people write.

My first trip to Bogota I was about where you are. I'd made my plans, booked my flight, prepaid my hotel and was reading all the horror stories. Then I saw a review of my hotel. According to the review it was in a very dangerous area, full of criminals, it was a complete dump and all the staff were very rude and insulting. Meanwhile, my Bogota friend keeps telling me about all the things I should be wary of. I was quite nervous the final week.

Judging the area my hotel was in by a 5 star area in a top western city, it may have appeared to be a dangerous area. There was a lot of construction in the area, which didn't help. The staff were extremely friendly and helpful, the area was safe and I ended up enjoying my stay.

Just relax. Spend your first day or so seeing the sights in La Candelaria. Visit the museums, enjoy the architecture, ride to the top of Monserrate. Get comfortable with the surroundings. It'll all seem less scary after you've walked around a bit.

[BKKguru]

Is this the reason for Venezuela's problems right now?

Funny :) Hopefully, Guiado will be a savior for Venezuela.

BTW, when I was in Chang Ping, China some years ago a Chinese girl told me about criminals who were using a drug that had the same effects as what you have described.

Burundanga powder when ingested causes victims to lose their will and memory, sometimes for days.
Thus, from a criminal point of view, it has a lot of advantages.

Previously, I was doing some "business" with the US Embassy in Bogota. They take this issue VERY seriously.

In their orientation manual for freshman diplomats, there is a warning: Never visit bars or nightclubs alone.
The manual says: "Druggings in group situations are far LESS common. Food and drinks should NEVER be left unattended".

[JjBee62]

Is this the reason for Venezuela's problems right now? BTW, when I was in Chang Ping, China some years ago a Chinese girl told me about criminals who were using a drug that had the same effects as what you have described.

It's basically the same as any of the date [CodeWord123] drugs. You can find them being used anywhere. A girl I know had someone slip something into her drink at a dinky local bar, where she's a regular, in a little Indiana farm town. In her case, her son was in the bar, noticed her behavior had changed and took her home, where she slept for 14 hours.

It happens. It's possible to minimize your risks. I tend to not worry about it.

[Turgid]

.............In Spanish, victims of this drug are described as Burundan guiado................

Is this the reason for Venezuela's problems right now? BTW, when I was in Chang Ping, China some years ago a Chinese girl told me about criminals who were using a drug that had the same effects as what you have described.

[Routard]

The only problem is I'm starting my stay at a hotel downtown near Santa Fe, so if I want my first experience of the City to be in the north, I'll have to take the transmilenio or taxi there for the first few days.

We all have different backgrounds, personal experiences and personalities. Some people on the board might have suggested you to go to a hotel close to Santa Fe because it is OK for them. It s OK for them because they are used to travel in third world countries, speak spanish, are adventurous and so on. But as far as I can see from your previous posts, a hotel close to sante Fe is not for you. I would suggest you to cancel your reservation and get a hotel in the Northern Area. Your travel experience will be much better. I have lived and travelled in more than 80 countries in the 5 continents, including each country of the top ten most dagerous countries of the world, I live in Colombia for five year, I have been in any corner of the country, but I would never stay in a hotel close to Sante Fe just to save a couple of bucks.

[Kib123]

You can't go around living life in fear... You have to go outside. And with going outside, shit is subject to happen. Such is life.

Well said sir!

[Kib123]

So I'm glad I've done a lot of research and asked a lot! If not, I wouldn't know that if I want to visit private apartments there I'll have to use a taxi app, apparently hailing taxis isn't safe, the TransMilenio isn't safe (especially at night), checking your phone map outside while trying to find a chicas apartment isn't safe, dressing slightly differently isn't safe, as is wearing a watch etc, you have to watch your drinks being spiked, and according to you, there's more chance of being mugged in the best areas than the crappy ones. Where does it end?? Doesn't help to be suddenly getting all this info from either in the last 4 days before my flight!! Anyway, I asked you a couple of times politely to not bother trying to 'help me', but you just carry on regardless !

Dude, Dig yourself a bunker in your home and lock yourself in there permanently if you are this paranoid. Seems pointless venturing into this forum with such 'bubble life' mentality.

[BKKguru]

<snip> you have to watch your drinks being spiked, and according to you, there's more chance of being mugged in the best areas than the crappy ones.

You have been given good tips and information on this board. It appears you are a "details" guy. So, I will do an information dump. Probably more than you ever wanted to know.

Criminals use Burundanga (pronounced boor-oon-DAN-ga) in food or drink to hundreds of unwitting victims each month.
Burundanga is odorless, colorless and soluble. So it is very easy to mix with food or drink.

In Spanish, victims of this drug are described as Burundanguiado. In one common scenario, a person will be offered a soda or drink laced with the substance.
The next thing the person remembers is waking up miles away, extremely groggy and with NO memory of what happened.
People soon discover that they have handed over jewelry, money, car keys and sometimes have even made multiple bank withdrawals for the benefit of their assailants.
Because Burundanga is often given at seedy bars or sex clubs, many victims are reluctant to come forward.

Not all cases of Burundanga involve theft or robbery. Sometimes victims have been used as mules to carry cocaine. The following incident happened 10+ years ago:
A well known Colombian diplomat disappeared shortly after leaving a function in Bogota, only to reappear in Chile under arrest for cocaine smuggling. Medical tests showed he had been under the influence of Burundanga, and no criminal charges were filed.
It is like a chemical hypnotism. The victim cannot say no; he has no will and becomes very open to suggestion.

Your next question will be - What the hell is Burundanga??

Burundanga is a kind of Colombian voodoo powder obtained from a common local plant, a shrub called borrachera or "drunken binge".
When refined, the powder yields scopolamine, a well known drug with legitimate use as a sedative and to combat motion sickness.
However, in Colombia, the drug's most avid fans are criminals. Street thugs mix the powder with sedatives and feed the Burundanga cocktail to unsuspecting victims whom they proceed to rob or even worse.

You can read this article dated April 2013. All the tips in this article have been shared by other members in this forum. Forwarned is forearmed:
https://thecitypaperbogota.com/livin...-medicine/3129

If the URL is cut off, Google Burundanga: bad medicine

Good Luck,
~BKKguru.

[BKKguru]

<snip>
Last week I went to Roatan, Honduras. I read a few posts on ISG before going. I read a few posts on tripadvisor to see where to stay. I asked ZERO fucking questions. I took my ass down there, did some scuba diving, hunted for chicks, and left. It was that simple. It was not something that took months of strategic planning and 1000 questions as if I was venturing out to space or something. THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I AM LAUGHING. And I think Honduras is supposed to be one of the most dangerous places on the planet.

"Honduras Travel Advisory. Bureau of Consular Affairs. US Department of State.
Reconsider travel to Honduras due to crime. Some areas have increased risk. Read the entire Travel Advisory. "

You are 100% correct. On a scale of 1 to 10, Honduras would be 9 or 10. Honduras makes Bogota look like Zurich.
Sir - you are brave. I would not go to Honduras unless I have 2 bodyguards in front and 2 behind me.

I know Honduras has potential. I am curious about your experience. Do you plan to post a report in the Honduras forum?

Thanks,
BKKguru.

[Mr Enternational]

It's a good job I've done a lot of research and asked a lot of questions, but it's only in the last couple of days that I've learned the scarier things, it's like you guys don't even see the irony of how you say 'Yes it's cool here, but hey, you might get kidnapped!'

You can't go around living life in fear. You said that you are from a wealthy European city, as if living life does not have risks anywhere. I know a guy that was in The Hague, which is probably one of the safest places on earth. He was riding a bike and got hit by that little train that they have. It cut him in half and he died. So much for the place being considered safe. You can't live in a bubble dude. You have to go outside. And with going outside, shit is subject to happen. Such is life.

And you have emphasised in a subtle way that you think being a black guy from the ghetto has helped keep you safe, just look back at your posts.

How do you emphasize something in a subtle way? That is an oxymoron. I only say that because the majority of guys on ISG are White and they say how scary and dangerous Santa Fe and downtown Medellin are. I am bringing another perspective as a Black guy that grew up around those kind of places that I do not find it intimidating or dangerous. My buddy that I posted the conversation is Black too, but I guess you saw how well that kept him safe.

[Coupe66]

Despite what you say here, you're often contradicting yourself, you say 'just chill out and come on down' when it suits you, but then you jump on the bandwagon just for the sake of it to back up somebody else's post, ie about kidnapping, just to be entertaining? That's not being helpful, especially to somebody who is coming there for the first time in a few days! Maybe you don't even notice you do it, or you're doing it now just to antagonise me?

Yes, if I could plan my trip again I don't think I would start it in Bogota. It's a good job I've done a lot of research and asked a lot of questions, but it's only in the last couple of days that I've learned the scarier things, it's like you don't even see the irony of how you say 'Yes it's cool here, but hey, you might get kidnapped!' Anyway I only booked my flight 2 weeks ago, before that I couldn't come and wasn't doing serious planning. And you have emphasised in a subtle way that you think being a black guy from the ghetto has helped keep you safe, just look back at your posts. And you said yourself that going into Santa Fe the first time wearing diamond earrings was dumb !

So I'm glad I've done a lot of research and asked a lot! If not, I wouldn't know that if I want to visit private apartments there I'll have to use a taxi app, apparently hailing taxis isn't safe, the TransMilenio isn't safe (especially at night), checking your phone map outside while trying to find a chicas apartment isn't safe, dressing slightly differently isn't safe, as is wearing a watch etc, you have to watch your drinks being spiked, and according to you, there's more chance of being mugged in the best areas than the crappy ones. Where does it end?? Doesn't help to be suddenly getting all this info from either in the last 4 days before my flight!! Anyway, I asked you a couple of times politely to not bother trying to 'help me', but you just carry on regardless !

Well you just attributed two things to me that I have NEVER said. On the contrary I have always said that we as foreigners are NOT blending into shit no matter how much we think wearing khaki pants and a button down shirt is making us look like everyone else. I have also never said that nobody ever notices me. That would be a dumb thing to say. Of course people notice me. I am made of flesh; of matter. How could people with eyes not notice me?

And what dumb things do I do? All I do is walk around like everyone else on the street. That is why I can not understand what the big deal is. I am not trying to invent ways for people not to notice me that would make them notice me more! I have constantly said to just walk around and act like a normal person instead of creeping around like you are some secret super spy or something.

You are really trying to make traveling out to be a headache that it is not. Imagine if every person in each thread took the board through the shit that you are taking this one through each time they went to a new place. Nobody would ever get to discussing the whole idea of this forum, which is mongering!

Last week I went to Roatan, Honduras. I read a few posts on ISG before going. I read a few posts on tripadvisor to see where to stay. I asked ZERO fucking questions. I took my ass down there, did some scuba diving, hunted for chicks, and left. It was that simple. It was not something that took months of strategic planning and 1000 questions as if I was venturing out to space or something. THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I AM LAUGHING. And I think Honduras is supposed to be one of the most dangerous places on the planet.

"Honduras Travel Advisory. Bureau of Consular Affairs. US Department of State.

US Department of State (. Gov) travel .

Reconsider travel to Honduras due to crime. Some areas have increased risk. Read the entire Travel Advisory. "

Hell. I think at first you had said you were going to travel to Bogota like Feb 12 or whatever and I even offered to show you around at the time in order to put this shit to rest! I was there like I said I would be. I took taxis, I took Ubers, I walked, I did not get kidnapped, I am still living. Come on man. Time to put on your big boy pants.

[Mr Enternational]

But then at the same time you qualified the reason why yourself, saying it's because you're a black guy from the ghetto so you just blend in and nobody notices you. And therefore not because you behave in a way that doesn't make you a target! So are your posts helping anybody? You do dumb things, but it doesn't mater because nobody notices you anyway ?

Well you just attributed two things to me that I have NEVER said. On the contrary I have always said that we as foreigners are NOT blending into shit no matter how much we think wearing khaki pants and a button down shirt is making us look like everyone else. I have also never said that nobody ever notices me. That would be a dumb thing to say. Of course people notice me. I am made of flesh; of matter. How could people with eyes not notice me?

And what dumb things do I do? All I do is walk around like everyone else on the street. That is why I can not understand what the big deal is. I am not trying to invent ways for people not to notice me that would make them notice me more! I have constantly said to just walk around and act like a normal person instead of creeping around like you are some secret super spy or something.

You are really trying to make traveling out to be a headache that it is not. Imagine if every person in each thread took the board through the shit that you are taking this one through each time they went to a new place. Nobody would ever get to discussing the whole idea of this forum, which is mongering!

Last week I went to Roatan, Honduras. I read a few posts on ISG before going. I read a few posts on tripadvisor to see where to stay. I asked ZERO fucking questions. I took my ass down there, did some scuba diving, hunted for chicks, and left. It was that simple. It was not something that took months of strategic planning and 1000 questions as if I was venturing out to space or something. THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I AM LAUGHING. And I think Honduras is supposed to be one of the most dangerous places on the planet.

"Honduras Travel Advisory. Bureau of Consular Affairs. US Department of State.

US Department of State (. Gov) travel .

Reconsider travel to Honduras due to crime. Some areas have increased risk. Read the entire Travel Advisory. "

Hell. I think at first you had said you were going to travel to Bogota like Feb 12 or whatever and I even offered to show you around at the time in order to put this shit to rest! I was there like I said I would be. I took taxis, I took Ubers, I walked, I did not get kidnapped, I am still living. Come on man. Time to put on your big boy pants.

[Parkinsons]

Thanks guys for your advice! The only problem is I'm starting my stay at a hotel downtown near Santa Fe, so if I want my first experience of the City to be in the north, I'll have to take the transmilenio or taxi there for the first few days. Parkinsons, that's a great suggestion re. the biking tour, as I'm into cycling anyway. Have already checked it out, I won't let this worry get me down. Anyway, if I don't like Bogota I can go elsewhere. I'm planning on staying a month in Colombia after all. Actually, will be staying in an Airbnb after my hotel, won't want to bring a chica back there. That's why I asked where the daytime motels (with hourly rates) etc are in Chapinero, but nobody answered me on that. Any ideas? By Mezzanine, you mean the chica joint that has been mentioned earlier?

Hey man I think I remember you from the Santo Domingo board. It's safer in the DR but the chicas are trickier. In Colombia you'll find it's the other way around. I don't think you'll have any problems, stop worrying!

Yes by mezzanine I mean the office building in the north with the multiple massage parlors. There I sessioned with a cute university student whom I later brought back to my hotel.

The bike tour that I joined took us through Santa Fe. The guide explained the place to us, told us to look just don't take any photos. You can get a feel that way. But be warned: during the day the ones standing on the streets are mainly trannies or fatties. No way do they represent the talent working at night inside the clubs. Your jaw will drop when you see the chicas inside Club Paisas at night.

I would advise against preparagos. Most ad photos are bait and switches. And their prices are high.

During the day in Chapinero guys will hand out flyers (business cards) advertising for casas. They're legit. You'll learn a lot of places that way. Since you are there for a month, trust me by week 2 you'll be teaching us new places.

There are also quite many swinger clubs in Bogota - - I haven't tried those. They promote themselves on Instagram and some allow for single male visitors. Try them out too!

Finally, worst case scenario -- since you're there for a month - - if Bogota doesn't work for you, heck for $50 you can get roundtrip tickets to Medelln or Cali or Cartagena!

[Coupe66]

Man you have me in stitches over here. Kidnap you? If they kidnap you they will have to feed you. Just tell them you eat too much to be kidnapped.

You are going to look like a moron walking up and down the same street. I will bet pesos to peanuts that you wonder about the other streets and go take a look. Why do you guys imagine Santa Fe and downtown Medelland to be war zones?

Here's the post I'm talking about that you made, so make your mind up! On this one you're totally laughing at the possibility of him being kidnapped, but on my post you're agreeing with BlueCar and looking for other examples.