Cartagena Reports

[GeneHickman]

I think you are someone who understands me. Though cynics may be happy with their own cynicism, I pity them. My lack of cynicism may have led to my down fall in Colombia, but until then, it had served me well. Of course, I now find myself questioning my previous experience. Was it just dumb luck I was almost never victimised in SEA. I am pretty sure I know what the cynics are saying in respect to that point. But maybe I was right? Most people, if you treat them well will respond in kind.

As far as the money is concerned, Iago in Othello says it best: "he who steals my purse, steals trash; ".

Best wishes.

I think by and large SEA is safer and less scheming and even risky compared to Latin America. The cultures, the religion, the history of the people etc is all different.

[Sammon]

There are good and bad girls. Maybe circumstances or just plain bad luck in their life makes them take advantage of instant gratification. I was drinking and dancing with this girl at classico in Sosua. I usually take local pesos only which I placed in my shirt pocket. Reason is easy to get to to pay for the drinks. Hidden away inside pocket of my pants is couple of hundred dollar bills and hundred dollar worth of pesos. She saw the money in my shirt pocket when I bought the drinks. We had negotiated 2500 for TLN. We were dancing close and I did not even feel her taking money from my pocket which was around 800 pesos. Only time I realized was after dancing we went to get drinks and my pocket was empty. I asked her if she saw my bills fall to the floor. She pretended not to notice. She probably was wondering how I am going to pay for the drinks. I reached inside my pant hidden pocket and pulled out a wad of cash. I wanted her to see fully realizing she stole the money while we were dancing close. I was not one to complain and call police or anything like that. The moment we got the drinks I said I do not want to be with her on her puzzled look. For a few hundred pesos she lost. I would have treated her well.

This is the mindset of some. Having said that I have got girls who were totally trustworthy.

We as mongers need to learn the subtle art of differentiation. There are always clues.

[Dublin12]

Thanks for this post. It's a real gem and fun to read the responses and reactions to it.

I like your approach. You've got an honest, optimistic and generous spirit; it's the path of genuine happiness. Risky though. Reading that post I was thinking "it could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others". I shuddered at some of the behavior. Others have mentioned this, it but the point about not waving around cash is one I hope sinks in for people. It's not obvious to most Caribbean sex workers that they may be able to work millions of pesos out of you over an interval measured in days or months or years. The culture lives in the here and now. Money in your pocket or at your bedside has an immediate value, measured in minutes or hours. Anyway, your post spells this out better than I can here.

Original post was #11542.

I think you are someone who understands me. Though cynics may be happy with their own cynicism, I pity them. My lack of cynicism may have led to my down fall in Colombia, but until then, it had served me well. Of course, I now find myself questioning my previous experience. Was it just dumb luck I was almost never victimised in SEA. I am pretty sure I know what the cynics are saying in respect to that point. But maybe I was right? Most people, if you treat them well will respond in kind.

As far as the money is concerned, Iago in Othello says it best: "he who steals my purse, steals trash; ".

Best wishes.

[Dublin12]

I guess I misunderstood the conversation. FWIW, I am referring to these posts.

My apologies. I do recall those posts, though I can't remember the context. My guess is it is what it is, and that robbery was not a major concern, though with the benefit of hindsight, it should have been.

Statistically, the more girls you meet the more likely you are to come across dishonesty. Prior to that, though I don't keep score. I'd estimate that I had about 80 mongering relationships and only once been the victim of theft. Clearly, I would be naive to think it could not happen, but presuming that Angela was involved in spiking my drink, and having been dealing with a culture where thefts were remarkably rare, you might understand why I was surprised that in Col, no girl I ever met, passed up any opportunity to steal from me, even when the economic arguments were that they were killing the golden goose. I've accused these girls of stupidity before, and I've seen nothing to tell me that this was a wrong conclusion.

[Nypher]

That's not what I said. Nobody told me not to worry about robbery, not that they should need to give advice on that. What I said, is there were those who mentioned cultural differences, but not one person mentioned the rampant dishonesty of these girls was part of these cultural differences.

It stands to reason that there are going to be cultural differences. Girls from TH and Cam are usually Asiatic and often Buddhist. Girls from Col are often of European extraction and are Christians. But did anyone point out the key cultural differences on which I could make a judgement. For example, there are cultures such as Indian where a woman going with someone who is not approved of by the family, might fall victim to honour killings. It was the lack of explanation which led me to conclude, "If these differences were important, someone would have given details".

Now, there are plenty saying "I told you so", but what exactly did they tell me?

The posts below are my posts alone. A few other posters were also telling you the same thing, with a lot more extra on why you shouldn't approach things with your mindset of Eastern culture.

Post where I explained why 250 - 300 a day is too low.

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...598&viewfull=1#post2586598.

Post where I explained that these chicas think day to day and do not think long term and where I gave an example if the monger gets drugged.

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...571&viewfull=1#post2586571.

Post where I told the story of my friend getting robbed when he was out cold. I think he was drugged but just didn't want to admit it so I'm not going to assume.

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...537&viewfull=1#post2586537.

Post where I warned if you're solo to put your safety first.

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...261&viewfull=1#post2586261.

Here's an extra one where I posted a few of my negative experiences with paying first and how some girls will be dishonest with gringos that do long term arrangements.

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...Info&p=2567441#post2567441.

Mongers do not have to spell things out word for word and step by step for every new gringo who wants to a gamble with the chicas in Latin America. With basic street smarts anyone can figure it out (If I do X then X have a high chance of happening so lets do Y). With every post here, users always talk about safety, prices of chicas, food, best locations to stay, and things to do beside mongering when that becomes boring.

With the way you moved, your outcome could have happened to you anywhere it just had a higher probability in Latin America.

[Nounce]

That's not what I said. Nobody told me not to worry about robbery

I guess I misunderstood the conversation. FWIW, I am referring to these posts.

...so you don't worry about being robbed or something like that...

Thanks for that, but being robbed was not a paramount concern. ...

[Jelly Donut]

thought you might be interested in hearing of my misadventures

Thanks for this post. It's a real gem and fun to read the responses and reactions to it.

I like your approach. You've got an honest, optimistic and generous spirit; it's the path of genuine happiness. Risky though. Reading that post I was thinking "it could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others". I shuddered at some of the behavior. Others have mentioned this, it but the point about not waving around cash is one I hope sinks in for people. It's not obvious to most Caribbean sex workers that they may be able to work millions of pesos out of you over an interval measured in days or months or years. The culture lives in the here and now. Money in your pocket or at your bedside has an immediate value, measured in minutes or hours. Anyway, your post spells this out better than I can here.

Original post was #11542.

[Dublin12]

And the advice you agree with is the one that tells you not to worry about robbery.

That's not what I said. Nobody told me not to worry about robbery, not that they should need to give advice on that. What I said, is there were those who mentioned cultural differences, but not one person mentioned the rampant dishonesty of these girls was part of these cultural differences.

It stands to reason that there are going to be cultural differences. Girls from TH and Cam are usually Asiatic and often Buddhist. Girls from Col are often of European extraction and are Christians. But did anyone point out the key cultural differences on which I could make a judgement. For example, there are cultures such as Indian where a woman going with someone who is not approved of by the family, might fall victim to honour killings. It was the lack of explanation which led me to conclude, "If these differences were important, someone would have given details".

Now, there are plenty saying "I told you so", but what exactly did they tell me?

[Nounce]

I have a question. What advice did you give me that would have helped me avoid much of these probs? I'd like to see the posts where I was told "These women are inherently dishonest".

Since you asked, a common advice is to take small step. It seems to me you kept on repeating the same mistake. Another thing you were told is you can't think the girl think the way you do. Your virtue become your weakness in your situations.

And the advice you agree with is the one that tells you not to worry about robbery.

[Dublin12]

You seem stubborn or top of ignorant about Latin culture. You are applying logic to a place where that does not pertain. Why and how they got that way is a much deeper discussion. We are mongers and presumably not there to implement deeper social change! You cited 3 for 3 examples of where you LT strategy failed, you were told it would fail on this board, and yet you insist, persist, and defend. Get a clue bro. Mongering in Latin America has its risks, but also its rewards. You have to be smart about it and adapt to their culture. Latinas don't think beyond that moment, their planning is abysmal, they may not even think about dinner far less tomorrow. It makes no sense to me whatsoever, but I am not them! I have a chica that to me is a definite 9/10 (and I am a picky MFer), she is a great lay, top 3 ever for me. We never discuss money, and she takes what I give her, doesn't even look at it, and we are like friends. She even asked me a time or two why I paid her, and a I just laugh it off and say it's a gift. But if she asks when I am not there, it's allows a polite decline(I actually got the impression last time I am there, she wants me not to pay her when I am there and just give her that money when she asks/needs it, i.e. Be her banker. However I have no intention of going down that road. If I was living there that is exactly what I would do. She had a child when she was age fifteen, and it's a daily struggle, she is 21 now and still hot as hell, you would never be able to tell she had a child.. God was generous in the looks department with her. But she has zero self esteem. In the time I have known her, she put two tattoos, had a breast enhancement surgery, and a nose job. None of those made any sense to me, she was messing with near perfection, why would you augment perky be to see breasts on a medium build frame, but to her low self esteem it was a boost. I listen, but I mostly like to fuck her. Bottom line do not apply your logic to them. Meet them where they are and it will be better for all. I guess your stubbornness and need to impose your way or the southeast Asian way will keep burning you.

As I look at those posters who are attacking my refusal to listen to one person only, I have a question. What advice did you give me that would have helped me avoid much of these probs? I'd like to see the posts where I was told "These women are inherently dishonest". I'd like to see the post that said, "You should not offer these women help under any circumstances because they will victimise you". I'd like to see the post that tells me what to do when the women refuse to leave the apartment as a means of extorting me".

The main advice I was given was that I was unlikely to find any takers for my offer of 7 million, or that I was offering too much. That in itself is contradictory advice because one party is telling me it can't be done while the other party is telling me I am offering too much so it must be possible. I found a taker at the first attempt. Regardless of the actual outcome of that, it might have been fairer to say, "You may find takers, but after agreement, they will reinterpret any such agreement as they see fit".

There were plenty of references to cultural differences, but I cannot recall a single post which defined ingrained dishonesty as one of those cultural differences. In fact, I have no recollection of any definition of the oft referred to "cultural differences" by anyone. I might be wrong, but I'd like to see the posts that explained what this actually meant when members were making such comments. Of course I could be disingenuous and also mention that nobody told me that my drink might get spiked, but as we know I was not ignorant of that possibility and I take responsibility.

One piece of advice I was given by some, which I did downplay, was how difficult things would be with lack of Spanish. On a previous trip to TH, I wifed up with a girl for the best part of three weeks and communication was mostly through Google Translate. Who knew that this app was not going to work for me, as well as it did in TH?

I am not trying to avoid personal responsibility, but when it's all said and done, most of those who are saying, "I told you so". More accurately said, "Cultural differences" but never attempted to explain these. To put it another way, if I were going to Saudi Arabia and were asking for info while I am there, how many people will tell me "You will have problems because of cultural differences"? Would it not be more helpful to explain those cultural differences, such as "P & P, is possibly a death penalty crime in Saudi". WE live in a world full of cultural differences, and many of us overcome those daily, especially if we are in mixed marriages. In the absence of any explanation as to what these differences are, should we really be surprised if like myself, the thinking is, "Whatever these differences are, they can't be that serious or they would have explained them"?

So for those who are in the "I told you so" camp, what exactly did you tell me apart from undefined cultural differences.

[GeneHickman]

Regarding

5. It was not an orgy with more than one girl. The hag slept in the spare room. And on the occasion when they scammed me, both stayed in the spare room.

You seem stubborn or top of ignorant about Latin culture. You are applying logic to a place where that does not pertain. Why and how they got that way is a much deeper discussion. We are mongers and presumably not there to implement deeper social change! You cited 3 for 3 examples of where you LT strategy failed, you were told it would fail on this board, and yet you insist, persist, and defend. Get a clue bro. Mongering in Latin America has its risks, but also its rewards. You have to be smart about it and adapt to their culture. Latinas don't think beyond that moment, their planning is abysmal, they may not even think about dinner far less tomorrow. It makes no sense to me whatsoever, but I am not them! I have a chica that to me is a definite 9/10 (and I am a picky MFer), she is a great lay, top 3 ever for me. We never discuss money, and she takes what I give her, doesn't even look at it, and we are like friends. She even asked me a time or two why I paid her, and a I just laugh it off and say it's a gift. But if she asks when I am not there, it's allows a polite decline(I actually got the impression last time I am there, she wants me not to pay her when I am there and just give her that money when she asks/needs it, i.e. Be her banker. However I have no intention of going down that road. If I was living there that is exactly what I would do. She had a child when she was age fifteen, and it's a daily struggle, she is 21 now and still hot as hell, you would never be able to tell she had a child.. God was generous in the looks department with her. But she has zero self esteem. In the time I have known her, she put two tattoos, had a breast enhancement surgery, and a nose job. None of those made any sense to me, she was messing with near perfection, why would you augment perky be to see breasts on a medium build frame, but to her low self esteem it was a boost. I listen, but I mostly like to fuck her. Bottom line do not apply your logic to them. Meet them where they are and it will be better for all. I guess your stubbornness and need to impose your way or the southeast Asian way will keep burning you.

[JjBee62]

Thanks for your response. It seems perverse as well as short-sighted to cheat those who treat you generously. I can well imagine the opposite being true. Why wouldn't you want to take advantage of someone that is mean? I have had it explained to me that these girls are different, but not the level of dishonesty they resort to.

Angela, who I think probably nobbled my beer would have earned 7 million COP for four weeks work. My losses to her if it was her that drugged me, were in the region of 2 million. What are the chances she is going to make that sort of money in that period now? Elena would have earned 5. 75 million instead of being scammed by the hag and her niece. "Diahann Carrol" would have made 6 million. Does that make sense to you that the first decides to screw me over for a paltry 50 k, and the other, 200 k?

Looking around the Clock Tower, there was definitely an over-supply of women. I am not sure that any two and possibly all three combined might be able to make 7 mill in that time. I understand it's currently low season there. It would appear that when these women find a golden goose, they can only think about wringing it's neck rather than wait for it to lay the golden egg.

Yes, it absolutely makes sense that those girls would attempt to take advantage of you when you were offering that amount of money. It makes sense because, by offering that amount of money you were showing that you had absolutely no idea what you were doing.

If you walked into a pub back home, where they sell pints of beer for $3 (or whatever price is the norm) and told the bartender you want to pay $15 for each beer, but you don't want a pint, for $15, you want to pay $15 for a shot glass of beer, how will he respond? If it was me, each shot glass would be nothing but foam.

I know a woman in Medellin who is a dentist. Fresh out of university the best offer she received paid 1. 5 million pesos a month. For a dentist. Meanwhile, you're offering almost 5 times as much, plus room and board to girls who probably take 6 months to earn that much money. Worse, you offered it to complete strangers.

It may seem like everyone is ganging up on you, but you put yourself in the position. It's not the girls' fault, it's not the fault of the police, or Western Union, or anyone else. If you had taken the advice you were given, you probably would have had a great time and you would be planning your next trip.

[JjBee62]

Hi,

Me and a friend are planning a trip to Cartagena in January for about 8 days. We are debating whether to Airbnb it or take advantage of the services provided here.

https://colombiaeroticvacations.com/

Has anyone ever used these services? It seems a bit pricy but if it's good we don't care. I've scoured most of the forums couldn't find anything. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I looked into those types of services several years ago. Here's my take on it:

Imagine someone offers you a chance to eat in one of the top restaurants in the world, total elegance, world class chef, you get the picture. The price is 3 or 4 times higher than the price if you just made a reservation at the exact same restaurant, but they're promising you a unique experience. So you pay the price, in advance. When you get there, they bring you out a bag of food from McDonald's. Unless, the day before you're scheduled to eat the special meal, they tell you they had to move it to another restaurant. Then you still get the same food, for the same price, but in a location that isn't nearly as nice as you expected.

Most of those type of places are using places you can find online, at a much higher price, and providing girls you can find, also at a much higher price. In addition, you're paying for the whole thing in advance.

If you really don't care how much money you spend, or the quality of the experience, go for it. Otherwise, there are better options.

[JjBee62]

A very long report of many things that could have been avoided if you only took the time to acknowledge and understand what posters like Mr. E and myself were trying to tell you over a month ago before you even got on the plane in DUB. Posters like us who have been there multiple times made the mistakes, or have seen the mistakes being made, therefore we pass on the preventive information so fresh gringos who arrive do not repeat them but you threw it all out the window. The fact that were were there solo those girls took full advantage.

We repeatedly told you Colombia is not Thailand. I myself, said I can black out in Thailand in a club and a girl will make sure I get back to my hotel room and when I wake up, she's there, and nothing is missing but I would never, ever do that in Colombia. We repeatedly told you the culture down there is different with the working girls where most of them do not care about tomorrow or next week, they only care about what they can get from you at that moment in time on that night. They live day to day as evident of your first girl who spent all the money in 1 day. We told you a month long arrangement is not a good idea and I specifically said if this is done to make sure to send her ass home every day because you do not want her constantly around you. I've posted many times if the gringo get cops involved they will end up paying more than to just pay what the girl wanted..

Those are some harsh words, but I believe every word you wrote is correct.

When most of the guys here give advice, they aren't doing it to be the bad guy. They give the advice they give because they have already made those mistakes and learned from them.

Most people would rather pay to learn from their own mistakes, instead of learning from someone else for free.

[The Tall Man]

I remember many of you telling me that the culture was different in culture in Col. I don't recall anyone telling me telling me about the Scorpion and Frog mentality of these women.

My mistake was not to understand when people mentioned the different culture from TH, that it included a total lack of honesty on the part of these girls.

I anticipated much of what you said about "there will be posters who will chastise you", but it is what it is. Hopefully, people will learn from this.

I could have told a completely flattering story about my misadventures, but given that this forum is about explaining and swapping experiences, that would be dishonest. Besides, I don't need the glory. I can tell the truth, knowing that if you or any other forum member and I ever pass each other by in the street, you will not recognise me as "that Idiot who went to Cartagena".

Just to mention Cartagena, as far as the money was concerned, that was not really a concern. My budget was the the same as I spend in TH. I made the mistake of thinking that Cartagena was the SA equivalent of Pattaya. It wasn't the losses that annoyed me. It was the overwhelming venality of all the girls I came into contact with.

One of the biggest lessons I saw from his report and one that I tried to warn him about in the first place is do not go to a new place and expect it to be like another. His big thing was this is how it is in Thailand. But Colombia is not Thailand. I have lived in Thailand for the past almost 13 years. When I go to Colombia or anywhere else, there is not one thing that reminds me of Thailand or that I am expecting to be like Thailand. I shared one of the same stories as Nypher where in Thailand I was blackout drunk and woke up in my bed with a stranger. When I am in Colombia I don't even drink at all when I am not with trusted friends or maybe if I am with a non-pro that I know and we are having a couple of margaritas when we are at dinner. But just tossing a few back alone around mfs that I do not know, hell no!

When you are in Colombia or Dominican Republic you can not just sit money around willy nilly like you can do in Thailand. Why would you even not only expect to be able to do it, but once you realize you have been stolen from, continue to test the waters several times after hoping maybe one of the chicks will not steal from you? He talked down on me saying I was a pessimist and a cynic. No mf. I am a realist. I am from the streets and I know how the streets operate, while you want to run around like you are on the Good Ship Lolipop. I am not going to sit around with a smile on my face tempting folks to rob me blind, especially when I know they have nothing to lose but everything to gain. England, Colombia, Kenya, Brazil, Thailand, Mexico, Philippines, Peru, South Africa, etc are not the same places, so do not go trying to operate in one as you are able to in another.

Not to toot my horn but even a deaf, blind and dumb person saw this as a train wreak coming full bore and being played out in front of us all from your the first mention of this horrible idea.

You got played big time by the 'vultures of Cartagena' who were circling above this newbie and as soon as the first opportunity arose they came to feast on the gringo.

We do appreciate your honesty, much respect, seriously.

Live and learn.

The Tall Man.