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  1. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by RamDavidson84  [View Original Post]
    You make some really BOLD claims though. "The USA is the most corrupt nation on Earth" LOL? It's just such a ridiculously biased statement.
    Bcos has corrupted all semblance of democracy, and that toxic corruptionr tends throughout the entire US sphere of influence.

  2. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTK  [View Original Post]
    I don't have the time to debate you here and now Ram. I find your your views very much inline with many USAns, that is to say completely ignorant of realities in the world. Olgarchs rule the world NOW, not 200 years ago. Corruption is as bad now as it was then. Its just that it is enshrined in law these days. Or the elites are above the law. Look at the USA for example. The most corrupt nation on Earth. All politics is bought, democracy is nil, no rule of law for the elites.

    Socialism never aims for equality of outcome or equal inputs. You know so little about it that I just don't have the time to go thru it on this forum with you.
    Cmon TK, don't get so bent out of shape LOL. And yes you do have time to debate, you post on these forums non stop all day long LOL. You make some really BOLD claims though. "The USA is the most corrupt nation on Earth" LOL? It's just such a ridiculously biased statement. Not Russia, not Mexico, not North Korea, not Belarus, not Venezuela, not any country in Africa. Some how you come to the conclusion that the USA is the most corrupt nation on Earth hahaha. You state "all politics are bought"? Yes, I am sure some politics are bought and many politicians are funded from campaign donations, but that is the "will of the people". If someone believes in a cause and they want to donate to a campaign, they are allowed to do what they want with their money. I am not sure off the top of my head, but I do believe Hilary Clinton had massive campaign donations which dwarfed Trumps and she still lost. Go figure that one.

    I am going to be very honest, you seem like you want so hard to believe in something that just doesn't exist and there is no evidence to back up your claims. I don't think I can put too much weight into your posts after you make such claims and I don't even want to ask you for evidence as I already know, there is no evidence to support those claims and it is just the stuff of conspiracy theorists.

    To be fair, I'll let sleeping dogs lye and agree to disagree. As you and I have both stated before, we do both truly want what is best for all nations of the world, we just have different opinions on the best way to solve societies problems.

  3. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by RamDavidson84  [View Original Post]
    Again, your criticisms of Capitalism are old and harken back to the days of early industry in the late 1800's. Yes Monopolies can form and they can take advantage of the consumer by charging high prices and they can eliminate competitors through bribing politicians. That can happen if you have a corrupt society, which the vast majority of industrialized societies do not allow to happen.

    In a perfect world where everyone is exactly equal and everyone was born to contribute equally, yes socialism would be great,
    I don't have the time to debate yiou here and now Ram. I find your your views very much inline with many USAns, that is to say completely ignorant of realities in the world. Olgarchs rule the world NOW, not 200 years ago. Corruption is as bad now as it was then. Its just that it is enshrined in law these days. Or the elites are above the law. Look at the USA for example. The most corrupt nation on Earth. All politics is bought, democracy is nil, no rule of law for the elites.

    Socialism never aims for equality of outcome or equal inputs. You know so little about it that I just don't have the time to go thru it on this forum with you.

  4. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Penetrador  [View Original Post]
    Lets not act like the US is not a shithole going down the drain.
    Agree 100%, quality of life has gone down tremendously since 2008 financial crisis. It's not the country it was 20 years ago. Media bias and spineless politicians are not helping. Once retirement hits, I will take my pension and find a quiet beach in Mexico / Caribbean somewhere LOL.

  5. #310

    Free Market is the Answer to the Human Condition!

    Quote Originally Posted by JustTK  [View Original Post]
    The global superpower has 125.000. 000 out of 330.000. 000 living pay check to pay check. Is that an outcome that you think is successful? If so, we live in different worlds.

    Any discttor that is corrupt is bad for a country. That statement applies to all economic systems, not just socialism.

    Competition is supposedly baked in to the idea behind capitalism. So of course, overcoming an annhialating your competitiors is part of the capitalist process. It is part of the free market. What many people fail to heed is that in the end stages of capitalism (what we see now) is that markets become oligopolies or monopolies that are protected by government (bcos those oligarchs become so powerful that they can buy poltcal policy). Those markets become what the opposite of what was promised. Junk products, terrible service, at exhorbitant prices. Just look around you for countless examples of that.

    Why would Colomibians be experts on Venezuela? As the saying goes, opinions are like AR $eholes. Everyone has one..
    Of course, just my opinion. I truly feel that the free market and many elements of Capitalism will be the fastest way to solve all of humanities problems in terms of providing a sufficient amount of essential resources to meet the needs of people. When you have a society that are home owners, employed in careers which provide health care and pensions, owners of personal transportation, and money left over to be spent on luxury goods which contributes to forging a deep rich satisfying cultural shared by your countrymen- you have solved the "big" problems of governing a nation. The free market and private business have proved without a doubt through history that through innovation in technology it has contributed more to solving these problems than any of other economic system. Look at the most important inventions in history and they were all developed in the private sector and purchased and sold in the free market.

    Again, your criticisms of Capitalism are old and harken back to the days of early industry in the late 1800's. Yes Monopolies can form and they can take advantage of the consumer by charging high prices and they can eliminate competitors through bribing politicians. That can happen if you have a corrupt society, which the vast majority of industrialized societies do not allow to happen. Government regulation of the private sector is essential to prevent corruption. I am sure corruption still goes on, but not to the point where it's going to have a significant impact on society. Look at every single industry and look at all the variety the consumer has to select from. The issues you speak about have been solved long ago. Yes monopolies and corrupt Oligarchies are a possible negative consequence of Capitalism, which is why transparency and government regulation of the private sector is so important. You speak about junk service, terrible products, and high prices as they are guaranteed to occur in a free market, but history has shown that when those problems arise, the seller loses business to others sellers who are providing better products and service at more fair prices. Simple as that.

    In a perfect world where everyone is exactly equal and everyone was born to contribute equally, yes socialism would be great, but that is not the world we live in right now. Maybe a generation from now, we will have more cohesive societies who are not corrupted by greed and they successfully follow Norway's example of incorporating socialist elements into their economic systems. Based off what I have seen, people will still be greedy corrupt assholes just out for themselves and the most fair solution to keep them productive is the "Free Market Capitalist Economic System".

    You criticize people in my country who live pay check to pay check, yet people by the millions are illegally traveling thousands of miles to enter my country because the reality is, even if you poor by the standards of the USA, you are still better off than if you are middle class in Latin America. Like I said, these people would kill just to have a home, heat / AC, Wi-Fi, food, educational opportunities, and affordable public transportation, and most importantly- they can find employment.

    Is it plausible to come to the conclusions that people in Haiti have brought poverty to themselves through lack of personal responsibility? Why are you allowing a population boom and having multiple children when you cannot even afford to feed yourself? Is that a responsible thing to do? Did Haiti mismanage their agricultural industries which led to infertile soil and killed their most important natural resource- sugar cane? I don't have the answer to those questions, but I do know that if you do not fulfill your personal responsibilities in any society, then you will be poor economically.

    Just because Cuba and Venezuela allow democracy and a free market to enter their society does not mean they are going to get fucked by the USA. It does mean they continue to be ruled by a dictator in a planned society where they are free to make the most of themselves and they will most likely remain in poverty as a best case scenario, and starve to death or turn to a life of crime in a worst case scenario. This is facts. How could it possibly be worse to play ball with the world and allow your people to have a say in their governments than just remain with low levels of freedom and extreme poverty and crime?

  6. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by RamDavidson84  [View Original Post]
    in the USA- 99% of the time you will have a roof over your head, food, wifi, heat / AC, and public transportation. You will have enough to be comfortable.
    >>
    That cannot be said in many dictatorships and countries who adopt socialism and abuse it with corruption.
    >>
    If there are problems between nations and one nation takes advantage of a weaker nation- that is abuse of power and human corruption. That is not due to a free market.
    >>
    I am not the expert on Venezuela, many Latin Americans / Colombians and most blame there struggle with poverty on Maduro and his corrupt regime.
    >>
    This isn't the 1500's and there is not some global conspiracy to keep Latin America poor and keep the USA and Europe rich. I just don't see how the USA even if it was trying to keep Latin America poor, logistically, how it could even do it? Like how could one nation, keep all those countries poor?
    >>
    Either way, its sad what has happened to Cuba and Venezuela and I hope things change for the better for them.
    The global superpower has 125.000. 000 out of 330.000. 000 living pay check to pay check. Is that an outcome that you think is successful? If so, we live in different worlds.

    Any discttor that is corrupt is bad for a country. That statement applies to all economic systems, not just socialism.

    Competition is supposedly baked in to the idea behind capitalism. So of course, overcoming an annhialating your competitiors is part of the capitalist process. It is part of the free market. What many people fail to heed is that in the end stages of capitalism (what we see now) is that markets become oligopolies or monopolies that are protected by government (bcos those oligarchs become so powerful that they can buy poltcal policy). Those markets become what the opposite of what was promised. Junk products, terrible service, at exhorbitant prices. Just look around you for countless examples of that.

    Why would Colomibians be experts on Venezuela? As the saying goes, opinions are like AR $eholes. Everyone has one.

    Imperialism is ALIVE and WELL. Watch this video link of how the USA has exploited Latinoland (apologies to those that note I have posted this link nmerous times now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKwJI9axblQ).

    Both Cuba and Venezuela are punished by the USA bcos they refuse to bend over from the USA. Cuba would be another Haiti if it were capialist. Haiti. That gamourous success story of capitalism.

    A challenge for you Ram, name me a successful oil-rich capitalist country. Saudi? Iraq? Syria? Egypt? Libya? UAE?, Yemen? Congo? Indonesia? Malaysia? Colombia? Venezuela-before -Chavez? All these countries are successful examples of capitalism? Free-markets, free and happy people, with great standards of living? No, clearly not. They are all examples of how powerful capitalist nations exploit the weak. Install puppets to extract their resources and abuse their people.

    This is the agneda you are promoting. This is what you think weak nations should sign up for, so they can be the next Haiti, Iraq or Yemen.

  7. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by RamDavidson84  [View Original Post]
    Why do you think there has to be "losers" in capitalism or a free market? I have lived my whole life in the USA, and it is fact that in the USA if you are not an asshole- 99% of the time you will have a roof over your head, food, wifi, heat / AC, and public transportation. You will have enough to be comfortable. That cannot be said in many dictatorships and countries who adopt socialism and abuse it with corruption. If there are problems between nations and one nation takes advantage of a weaker nation- that is abuse of power and human corruption. That is not due to a free market. That has nothing to do with the system of capitalism. I am not the expert on Venezuela, but I have spoken with many Latin Americans / Colombians and most blame there struggle with poverty on Maduro and his corrupt regime.

    This isn't the 1500's and there is not some global conspiracy to keep Latin America poor and keep the USA and Europe rich. I just don't see how the USA even if it was trying to keep Latin America poor, logistically, how it could even do it? Like how could one nation, keep all those countries poor? It seems like another false narrative which are more prevalent than ever in today's media. I think there are many positive aspects about socialism, but you need a cohesive society where the citizens truly trust one another and share a deep cultural heritage for it to be successful. This is why I believe Norway has been successful with it, not that it's totally socialist. Socialism would never work in the USA, look how divided the nation is. Based off the history of corruption in Latin America, I don't think it would work there either. Either way, its sad what has happened to Cuba and Venezuela and I hope things change for the better for them.
    Lets not act like the US is not a shithole going down the drain.

  8. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTK  [View Original Post]
    Your entitled to express your opinion. Or keep quiet if you prefer. ...
    You are critical and sharp. Do you read what he or Elvis wrote? It's like competence does not matter to you.

  9. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTK  [View Original Post]

    They didn't get everything right. Maduro seems to have a particular poor record.
    out!
    They got next to nothing right.

  10. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by MaraCucho  [View Original Post]
    I have to say this: I am venezuelan, and I've lived in Venezuela for all my life.
    Your entitled to express your opinion. Or keep quiet if you prefer. But claiming that your Venzuelan therefore you know best is disingenuous. Imagine if you were in the USA and someone told you - "I live in USA. I saw that the economy improved when Donald Trump was elected. Then the Dems cheated at the elections and he was thrown out". Is that logical?

    Many folks disagree on political views. In all countries. If you blame Chavez for everything, it means you ignore the terrible situation he inherited, you ignore the negative effects of the US embargo, you also seem to blame him for not being able to predict the future for the years after he died and be able to see that Maduro would do a bad job.

  11. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTK  [View Original Post]
    As far as I can tell, the country has always been fucked up. Whether it was the Spanish colonialists, the USA, the international petrco-companies, the ruling elites, the government, the one constant is that the poor people of Venezulela have been consistently fkd by everyone. And these days, that means literally too.

    One cannot blame this on socialism, or Chavez, or Maduro bcos they inherited a totally fkd up situation. You might not like their policies, but it was no better before for the majority. Runaway inflation has existed since 1983 (Chevez came in 1999) and the currency has lost value against the USD 500 fold since then. Chavez got it under control for a while in the 2000's, but it span out of control again by 2012. The socialist governments have introduced minimum wage, re-set its value, nationalised various primary industries, reduced poverty, extreme poverty, and improved illiteracy. They didn't get everything right. Maduro seems to have a particular poor record. Lack of regard to the law. Has always been the case in the ruling classes in Venezuela, as it has in most countries. How do you think they got rich in the first place? - by saying "hey, I got here first (which they didn't), this is mine, get the FK out!
    Why do you think there has to be "losers" in capitalism or a free market? I have lived my whole life in the USA, and it is fact that in the USA if you are not an asshole- 99% of the time you will have a roof over your head, food, wifi, heat / AC, and public transportation. You will have enough to be comfortable. That cannot be said in many dictatorships and countries who adopt socialism and abuse it with corruption. If there are problems between nations and one nation takes advantage of a weaker nation- that is abuse of power and human corruption. That is not due to a free market. That has nothing to do with the system of capitalism. I am not the expert on Venezuela, but I have spoken with many Latin Americans / Colombians and most blame there struggle with poverty on Maduro and his corrupt regime.

    This isn't the 1500's and there is not some global conspiracy to keep Latin America poor and keep the USA and Europe rich. I just don't see how the USA even if it was trying to keep Latin America poor, logistically, how it could even do it? Like how could one nation, keep all those countries poor? It seems like another false narrative which are more prevalent than ever in today's media. I think there are many positive aspects about socialism, but you need a cohesive society where the citizens truly trust one another and share a deep cultural heritage for it to be successful. This is why I believe Norway has been successful with it, not that it's totally socialist. Socialism would never work in the USA, look how divided the nation is. Based off the history of corruption in Latin America, I don't think it would work there either. Either way, its sad what has happened to Cuba and Venezuela and I hope things change for the better for them.

  12. #303
    I have to say this: I am venezuelan, and I've lived in Venezuela for all my life. I did vote for Chavez in my 1998, and ever since the quality of my life has degraded substantially almost every year, I have endured loss and disease and hunger all while witnessing my country crumbling into ruins. I deeply regret giving him my vote because I absolutely blame him for what has happened in this country in the past two decades. Chavez engulfed all the branches of government and consolidated all power around himself, so there is LITERALLY nobody else to blame. He had all the power to do as he pleased, and had the immense luck of having high oil prices so cash was plentiful, and squandered it all in populist policies that only bleed this nation dry and left nothing standing for the future. Yes, he had a couple of successes (which as I said before, didn't last), but claiming that our current situation (including having Maduro as our president, as he has handpicked by Chavez) is not his direct responsability, is disingenuous at best. JustTK, believe what you want to believe, but the reality of what I have experienced through all these years living in my home country simply doesn't match that vision. I won't say anything else on this matter, because I am starting to get pissed off and I don't want to end up saying something rude or insulting.

  13. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by JustTK  [View Original Post]
    ...One cannot blame this on scoialism, or Chavez, or Maduro bcos they inherited a totally fkd up situation. ...
    I am surprised you are so forgiving.

  14. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis2008  [View Original Post]
    I do really hope that nation gets its shit together and they pull their heads out of the ass. I really do. It has so much potential and on an individual basis I like a lot of Venezuelans too. It is just their culture is shit.
    As far as I can tell, the country has always been fucked up. Whether it was the Spanish colonialists, the USA, the international petrco-companies, the ruling elites, the government, the one constant is that the poor people of Venezulela have been consistently fkd by everyone. And these days, that means literally too.

    One cannot blame this on scoialism, or Chavez, or Maduro bcos they inherited a totally fkd up situation. You might not like their policies, but it was no better before for the majority. Runaway inflation has existed since 1983 (Chevez came in 1999) and the currency has lost value against the USD 500 fold since then. Chavez got it under control for a while in the 2000's, but it span out of control again by 2012. The socialist governments have introduced minimum wage, re-set its value, nationalised various primary industries, reduced poverty, extreme poverty, and improved illiteracy. They didn't get everything right. Maduro seems to have a particular poor record. Lack of regard to the law. Has always been the case in the ruling classes in Venezuela, as it has in most countries. How do you think they got rich in the first place? - by saying "hey, I got here first (which they didn't), this is mine, get the FK out!

  15. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Combo  [View Original Post]
    Really fucked up -- if they were out of town or out of the country, the government would not penalize people who moved into their property. They had to sell and get out. The government's attitude was more or less "if you're not occupying your property, you must be rich and poor people should be able to move in. ".
    Combo, that is my point. Did anybody say that is wrong or were the people waiting to cash in on that government attitude? When I was at the shareholder meeting, there was no one who was standing up for what the law said. They were all looking to cash in on breaking the law. This was not one person but hundreds who were sitting there in this shareholder meeting.

    And the attitude in Venezuela is we are a rich country and the reason we are poor is we have been stolen from and we are going to steal back. That is the culture, and you just described it like I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combo  [View Original Post]
    I saw so many hot-looking women there that I ended up going back as a single guy. Both Isla Margarita and Caracas.
    The prettiest French women I have seen were in Montreal, the prettiest Iranian women I saw were in California, and the prettiest Venezuelan women I have seen were in Colombia and Mexico. I did not see much in Caracas and did not recall seeing much when I was near the coast but maybe the time was wrong. The women know their way around the bed, and there is no doubt Venezuela is a country with some bonafide 10's.

    I do really hope that nation gets its shit together and they pull their heads out of the ass. I really do. It has so much potential and on an individual basis I like a lot of Venezuelans too. It is just their culture is shit.

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