General Info

[Camaro1257]

Are all Dominicans alike?

I will state again my post are not intended for contention just to share some of my perspectives as I immerse myself in Dominican culture.

It never ceases to amaze me when I speak about some of my experiences with Dominican women with other Dominican women the response is always "todas las mujeres no son iguales" in the beginning I didn't have a come back but now I say " yo se pero la mayoria son similar. ".

I have been giving this issue a lot of thought. Much of my time outside of chicas is spent with other extranjeros specifically ex pats who live here and the majority of us have the same types of experiences however it seems that there are several factors that determine what type of experience we will have.

1. Family background, is it a two parent household and what role does the father play in the family? Is the family religious and to what degree do they practice their religion? Since the first set of values comes from the family I find this to be very important.

2. Socio economic class, Dominican society is similar to American society in that there is a upper class, middle class, working class and poor class. The difference between the Dominican Republic and the United States is that in the Dominican Republic is the disparity between the classes is much greater. What I have personally discovered is that if a woman in working my interaction with her is generally different than if she is not.

3. Level of education is very important also, I have met women in their late 20's who have not completed high school due to pregnancy, being married or other circumstances of life. There is a direct correlation between education and success in life regardless as to what country you are from. I realize there are many college educated Dominicans that are unemployed but those who have not completed high school have less hope for the future.

My conclusion is that if I only deal with Dominican women from broken families of low socio-economic status who are uneducated I will generally get the same results. Admittedly the majority of my experiences are similar, but when I have different experiences with Dominican women it is likely due to one of the 3 above factors. Although it is difficult stepping outside my comfort zone I am enjoying the challenge.

[Manizales911]

You mean you actually read it all? That is called taking one for the team.

My post was made somewhat tongue in cheek, I've hung with WRX a couple times and he has a lot of knowledge of Sosua so yeah, I read all of it.

[SubCmdr]

I have met WRX and it was very pleasant. However I must say I almost never agree with anything he say or his perceptions. I have committed my self to not engaging him because he takes criticism to heart. Now that he lives in the DR I have noticed he has mellowed. Initially he perceived all chicas as scammers and not to be trusted. I would just recommend not debating his views because there is no win in it.

As Spock would say with one raised eyebrow. Interesting.

[OldKool]

I have met WRX and it was very pleasant. However I must say I almost never agree with anything he say or his perceptions. I have committed my self to not engaging him because he takes criticism to heart. Now that he lives in the DR I have noticed he has mellowed. Initially he perceived all chicas as scammers and not to be trusted. I would just recommend not debating his views because there is no win in it.

[Frannie]

My head hurts reading all of this.

You mean you actually read it all? That is called taking one for the team.

[Manizales911]

My head hurts reading all of this.

[Mr Gogo]

It's never personal bro, don't be so sensitive. But what I will do is join the masses and not respond to any of you posts. Maybe one day you will look at the posts of the only two people who responded to you and see that they gave you good advice.

[Wrx2005]

Not logical to me is the same as doesn't make sense, but you want to twist it to mean something completely different. One is something someone book smart might say and the other is something someone else might say.

It's irrelevant because I'm tired already from this and I can only read the first paragraph of your posts. You win I quit.

What do they call this type of deflection? The Red Herring? Or is it the Straw Man? So your concern is more about me saying a particular statement doesn't sound logical and acting like the semantics of that is the issue here, Of course that's not the issue. Its more about you realized that you can't really substantiate or explain how to apply that statement in practical terms? I mean how could you know that no people in Sosua have ever complained about girls being late? I only asked a simple question, and the focus got deflected immediately. I do know the reasoning behind that.

I dont think people in Sosua are complaining about girls being late.

Me saying your statement doesn't sound logical was never stopping you from being able to explain how you came up with that. How can I twist what you mean, if you haven't even explained it yet? Thats the purpose for me asking you to explain it. Not able or willing to show how to apply your statement, that is where the problem is going to be. If I were in your position I would probably be at a lost for words as well. But to save face, I might have handled it differently.

When you say you don't know the word " hustle" it's not a whole lot to explain further. You can figure it out if you want but you are going to dissect it for irrelevant inspection. What context was it used, who said it, what day of the week was it said on and was it a full moon? I chose not to play those games, common sense is needed only.

Inaccurate. I never said I don't know the word hustle. I said

I don't know what hustle or code you are referring to in regards to chicas showing up on time. I mean it sounds good. But what exactly does that mean practically? Please explain?

.

I do not see anything in that quote saying I do not understand the word hustle. I asked you to explain point blank WHAT hustle or code you are referring to? Especially in regards to chicas showing up on time, as I was addressing. The Red Herring/Straw Man again.

Let me explain where I can go with all of this. You've made some distinct unsubstantiated remarks regarding my participation on these boards, and your disapproval and criticisms, including off base assumptions of my dealings with certain situations with dominicans / locals that I addressed. The same way you made blanket unsubstantiated statements you may try to assign to me or others, is the same way some of your other statements come off.

Normally, I wouldn't need to address this, but since you kinda made it personal, as if you are some victim from the relentless WRX. I thought I'd illustrate in an exchange with you, just how baseless your attempts are at pigeon holing is, just because you may not agree or like what you think their POV is. And if someone were to follow your line of posting and question it, there really is no answer you can give to support some of the things you put out there. Especially where what you say goes off on a tangent, and doesn't even address what the person was talking about.

And I urge you to pay attention to that, even if it isn't obvious to you. When do you see me initiating criticisms of you or making disparaging statements about your perspective for any of your content? Making up stuff about how you operate with Cubans, or locals in BC, SD or where ever? I don't initiate posts like that towards you. I avoid doing that in general. I may make my points or question something, but I keep it general, and to where it applies. Not personal. Sure I'm long winded, but I do not mean to direct my focus personally towards anybody on these boards, unless they address me a certain way. You crossed that line. You should always keep things general, not personal. Especially if you make statements you can't possibly substantiate.

And like I said before. If you had demonstrated an inkling of trying to understand my POV, instead of making up your mind that I need to do this, I need to do that, you might come off as sincere. How come you never ask for feedback, and clarity to make sure your criticisms are correct,applicable? Thats the one thing lacking in your arsenal of engagement in discussion/debate. When called on the carpet, you decide that you can't go on anymore. I know deep down you are better than that. Have a lot more to offer when it comes to mutual communication for understanding. Do you even want mutual understanding when you criticize a perspective?

What I'm writing here isn't just for your benefit. Many folks can relate to folks who come at them with that undercurrent of disdain for the other persons alleged and re-interpreted perspective, and then pretend to play the victim role when the target refuses to accept that being peed on is just another form of rain.

[SubCmdr]

I was shocked by the airline costs. This is considered low season but the prices are 20% higher. In May I paid 380 for a round trip to SD The same trip in July is $600. I search airlines like my life depends on it. I am a guy who has no problem flying Spirit or any other airline if the price is right. This trip I am splitting airlines. United has flight into POP for $306 and arrives at 12:30. This gives me a full day on the ground, The round trip on United was $815. So I booked my return on Spirit flying out of SD $280 leaving at 4 pm total about $600. This total is about $200 more then my last trip.

The airlines have finally got their act together and demanded planes be designed for their routes instead of taking what Airbus and Boeing served up and trying to figure out where each plane works. I've had a more than a few flights on the shinny new Boeing 737-800's. That version of Boeing most popular line of aircraft it's ever build is a game changer. Increased seat density, lower fuel costs and high load factors are all working to make increasing profits for the airlines and higher prices for us.

Here is a quote from Airline Economic Analysis for 2015 - 2016: "Airlines have become better at matching capacity to consumer demand during the past decade, maintaining high load factors in both peak and off-peak times. Record load factors in the past two years are largely the result of airlines stimulating off-peak demand and maintaining or reducing unnecessary off-peak capacity".

They are in the drivers seat right now. I just flew back to the US on Delta and paid the most I've ever paid. I paid more than I did to fly first class into Santo Domingo. We are paying all that money and service on US airlines is still horrible. I'm thinking about just putting up the extra money taking Copa and flying through Panama when visiting Latin America from now on. I'm wondering out loud if my presidents proposal to sell off the AirTraffic control system into private hands will affect ticket prices, profitability and safety of airline travel. It's a great time for the shareholders of the airlines. But not such a great time just be a contributor to their bottom line though the prices you pay for tickets and ancillary (love that word) fees.

[OldKool]

I was shocked by the airline costs. This is considered low season but the prices are 20% higher. In May I paid 380 for a round trip to SD The same trip in July is $600. I search airlines like my life depends on it. I am a guy who has no problem flying Spirit or any other airline if the price is right. This trip I am splitting airlines. United has flight into POP for $306 and arrives at 12:30. This gives me a full day on the ground, The round trip on United was $815. So I booked my return on Spirit flying out of SD $280 leaving at 4 pm total about $600. This total is about $200 more then my last trip. I had a great time on my last trip and plan improve upon it on this one. I plan to see the novia from my last trip but know I will be horn dogging for some new stuff.

[Mr Gogo]

Not logical to me is the same as doesn't make sense, but you want to twist it to mean something completely different. One is something someone book smart might say and the other is something someone else might say.

It's irrelevant because I'm tired already from this and I can only read the first paragraph of your posts. You win I quit.

[Mr Gogo]

When you say you don't know the word " hustle" it's not a whole lot to explain further. You can figure it out if you want but you are going to dissect it for irrelevant inspection. What context was it used, who said it, what day of the week was it said on and was it a full moon? I chose not to play those games, common sense is needed only.

[Wrx2005]

Brother,

I'm not getting into a long discussion on this with you, you say my posts don't make sense, then you say you don't understand. You are a very intelligent guy so it's time to analyze posts for meaning not for discussion.

Read Frannies, Camaro and my post again and maybe you will get what we are saying, if not then so be it.

The fallacies of what I supposedly said just keep coming and coming. Exactly when did I tell you that YOUR posts don't make sense, and that I do not understand? In my last post in the very beginning, I said "Exactly how do you rationalize that no people in Sosua have complained about chicas in Sosua being late? That doesn't even sound logical. ".

How does that translate today into "your posts don't make sense, you do not understand?" What posts are you talking about? Is there someone else posting in my name? I asked you a question for clarification on how you came up with that. How do you know I don't or won't understand if you won't or can't explain it?

In fact I asked you several key questions based on the points you made for clarification. And I also pointed out my rationale and reasoning on how I handled a matter regarding my keys. My point is bruh. If you choose to make disparaging remarks (subtle, obvious or in presupposition) concerning a fellow board member, at least be prepared to back up what you say with reasons and rationale to support it when asked. Especially when you do not have personal experience seeing how that person operates day to day.

And after you get some quality feedback, be willing to acknowledge that difference in perspective from yours, as possibly being valid to whom it applies to, even if you don't like it or agree with it. Thats how folks have meaningful discussions. Don't just settle for, you don't want to get into a long discussion.

[Mr Gogo]

Brother,

I'm not getting into a long discussion on this with you, you say my posts don't make sense, then you say you don't understand. You are a very intelligent guy so it's time to analyze posts for meaning not for discussion.

Read Frannies, Camaro and my post again and maybe you will get what we are saying, if not then so be it.

[Wrx2005]

I don't think people in Sosua are complaining about girls being late, you just step into the street and pick the next one. Get outside of Sosua and that dynamic changes. Also it's a difference between a girl coming for an hour fuck and a girl coming for a date and maybe spending the night. The conversation started because mostly girls in SD were always late.

Exactly how do you rationalize that no people in Sosua have cpmplained about chicas in Sosua being late? That doesn't even sound logical.

You speak on how Sosua used to be and I agree but the hustle was respected back then with a code. Now we are seeing stinking pussies, girls doing CBJ, and girls rushing out. It's all about the fast dollar.

Actually, I wasnt focused on how Sosua used to be. Thats too broad a subject. I mentioned Sosua and the DR in general in regards to how chicas were more likely to be somewhere on time. How did you end up re interpreting what I said to be only about how Sosua used to be? I don't know what hustle or code you are referring to in regards to chicas showing up on time. I mean it sounds good. But what exactly does that mean practically? Please explain?. IMO it's simple. Chicas commonly showed up on time, because they wanted to get paid and / or reap the benefits from the foreigner. And in enough instances they were motivated because they were competing with other women. That is still going on, it's just that lateness and no shows seem to be an epidemic. Thats not just in Sosua, thats all over.

It's one of the disadvantages about living in a tourist trap, it sugarcoats the DR experience. Step outside the tourist areas where you have thousands of options, can dictate terms, and spend time in other areas. Then you will notice patience and understanding are the only way of survival for a gringo.

Disadvantage? Tourist trap? Sugarcoats the DR experience? I guess whatever you are talking about would be seen as a disadvantage or a tourist trap, for you. Or someone ill prepared. IMO a person that needs to step outside somewhere to find options (outside of an option rich environment) , is the person who is searching for something they have not found within. Thats not a good or a bad thing. It's their choice. Personally I'm quite content with life living in the DR and Sosua particularly. The beauty of this, is that we all can only think in one head. How you think my life or any person living in Sosua is, does not necessarily result in my or their reality. You may not want to accept that, but that is the way it is.

Understanding in the DR is a guy you don't know delivering your lost keys, saving you from changing the locks or making new keys, and eliminating you of the worry of a future attempted burglary, and offering a worthy reward. Not a two dollar reward which it would have cost you to replace just one key. Not trying to understand would be you trying to impose your American values and say you would have returned them for free.

Wait a second? Arent you trying to impose your standard of reward on me of what you think I should have paid the guy?

Let me explain how living here works as opposed to someone who visits. I'm not going to give the guy who brings me my keys the money designated for the guy who found my keys. You can rest assured the finder might not get the money. Now let me ask you this. How much did I pay the guy who actually found my keys? Yeah that's right, I found out exactly who it was. Ya see, you wouldn't ask that question because you arent focused on how I assessed the situation. Moreover, I gave the guy who brought me my keys the option of telling me what he wanted. And he refused to tell me. I'm not going to fall into no gringo trap of giving some guy more than what's enough. I gave him 100 pesos initially. He can eat with that, or get almost a tanks worth of gas in his motorcycle. If he wanted more he had a mouth, he could have spoke up. Instead he started acting like a scammer.

Do you recall the incident I shared a few months ago here where one of my scooters caught a flat? I mentioned here that the moto that stopped and went to seek help asked me for 100 pesos for his trouble. He didn't sit there telling me how much money I would have paid if he hadn't come along. What he asked for was fair to him, and it was fair to me. Then the time I ran out of gas in town with my golf car, and another moto went and got gas. I gave him I think 150 pesos and he was happy about that. I live in the DR now, and I know how much value locals place on things others take for granted. I handled things according to where I was and who I was dealing with. Not how you propose I should have handled it.

You have to make the adjustment bro, because you are playing a losing game and the outcome will be you getting frustrated and blaming the Dominicans (we see that always in your posts). Life in the DR will never change to meet your standards.

I beg to differ. I think you need to make the adjustment and stop trying to assume how an individual lives, thinks or operates using limited information provided on a message board. "Blaming the Dominicans (we see that always in your posts). ".

Ya know, I can see why Camaro as cool and collective as he is on this board and in person, has got to the point where he's less inclined to post. Oh well, that's just how it is.

P.S. You are stuck in your comfort zone you have created, and analysing everything based on Sosua but I really think you need to relocate to another real DR city to get a new perspective. Peace.

Yes I have a comfort zone. You say stuck? If my visiting several cities in the DR like last year, and years past is stuck in my comfort zone, I guess I'm guilty as charged. Obviously one would think that, if all they have to go on is my board participation. Exactly what is analyzing EVERYTHING based on Sosua consist of? I think you are exaggerating and distorting things again. Ad hominem. Attacking the person, not the perspective.

No bruh, it's more like this. I think you are stuck in judgement without understanding zone. I believe your goal in responding is not to understand, but to pick certain things apart if it doesn't meet your approval or strikes a cord. The key thing that exposes that, is that you never ask questions or even prove anything that's said is wrong, unfounded or does not apply somewhere. Ya know why? Because the perspective you contrive is not the individuals but your distorted version. Nobody lives their life on a message board. There fore there is no way you can make an accurate assessment of what someone else supposedly needs, should or shouldnt do, how they operate or how they think.