Vienna

[Massimo Potente]

So why do you think almost everyone moved from Andiamo to Wellcum? Girls and clients?

It felt to me that the skilled part of Andiamo's management left or was removed and eventually ended up at Wellcum. And like that the power shifted. I am not really sure that this is true but so it seemed reasonable enough to believe that.

[Hawkeyee]

Hey guys,

I am planning to visit Vienna soon and thinking to visit GT.

Would like to know if there is any weekday it will be too overcrowded with men?

[Dubner32]

Pistons, Agree your previous post. I used to go to Lugano from Milano area, mainly Ocean. Absolutely no comparison with Marina (SLO) or Welcum / Andiamo (A).

Ocean featured low quality, massive upselling in room and poor service. Any Italian with a machina, a wallet and a brain would go noerth east.

[Pistons]

I have to add though, Wellcum is not really dominating everyone in the area, the competition from Marina in Slovenia is much larger than the Andiamo competition. Easily seen when talking to all the Italians. And Marina is a new club as well, and about the same age as Wellcum I suppose. It is not quite as good as Wellcum, but it does take a fair market share and has a better location from an Italian point of view. Whereas before, the Italians had Andiamo as an alternative. Or they had to go to Switzerland further west and pay higher prices. Now with Marina and Wellcum opening, the Swiss clubs seems to have lost some of their Italian customers too. The rates in the Lugano clubs have dropped heavily the last 5-10 years. I wonder if this is part of the reason.

[Pistons]

Wellcum is a different animal. Its design is superior for sure (although Andiamo is basically the same design style) and they dominate everything in their area with relative ease. Despite the fact that Andiamo was the first mover and used to be a major force. What you see in Wellcum now in terms of number of clients and girls, Andiamo had all that and more when they were still good.

So why do you think almost everyone moved from Andiamo to Wellcum? Girls and clients?

[Zorp 001]

I think Babylon is for a specific clientele and considering how many rich guys go to Vienna to spend their money, the club is most probably not going to have any issues anytime soon. The pricing in Babylon is out of my budget limit most of the time, and I know that it is not for me.

On the other hand, there are places like Maxim that offer a good service for a reasonable price for an average Joe like me. The thing I like about the paysex scene in Vienna is that there is something for everyone depending on how much money you want to spend. You can literally choose to spend anywhere from 40 euros all the way up to the Babylon level 700 euro service. Obviously the latter is not for everyone, but I don't think the club is having any financial problems whatsoever.

[Massimo Potente]

I think that a design is not the only reason. Wellcum has been designed as sauna club, but GT is quite improvised ("restaurant", rooms, location of saunas). As I know there was a supermarket before.

Of course, girls offer good services in both clubs, what is most important.

In GT's case at least it is not the design that sets them apart. Funpalast was never close to being a valid rival even when GT's design was less interesting prior to 2016 when the changes were made. Of course FP's design is super flawed in every imaginable aspect except for sheer size.

GT has, as far as FKK is concerned, the first-mover advantage and has never given that away. It's reputation is solid and deserved and they are doing a good job keeping the girls satisfied.

Wellcum is a different animal. Its design is superior for sure (although Andiamo is basically the same design style) and they dominate everything in their area with relative ease. Despite the fact that Andiamo was the first mover and used to be a major force. What you see in Wellcum now in terms of number of clients and girls, Andiamo had all that and more when they were still good.

I think it is nice that we can speak about so many good, professional and prosperous clubs.

[Itponaus]

Maybe the reason why GT Vienna and Wellcum works, while Fun Palast and Paradise Graz does not work is the focus on design at GT and Wellcum. It was perhaps the one thing that struck me the most, how well the design was done at both clubs. It brings you in the right mood with the right lighting and design, and both places stood out a notch above anything in Germany on this front I felt. So I assume the Austrian and Italian clientelle focusses more on this than the Germans do. And also, the girls might feel better if the place feels right.

I think that a design is not the only reason. Wellcum has been designed as sauna club, but GT is quite improvised ("restaurant", rooms, location of saunas). As I know there was a supermarket before.

Of course, girls offer good services in both clubs, what is most important.

[Massimo Potente]

I find it perfectly fine to discuss these things on a forum like this.

Sure, me too and It's all good. And you are making some solid poionts but I have discussed it so often already that I feel like I am part of the "Groundhog Day".

Besides, nobody is right or wrong here but I feel like I understand the position of each mentioned club quite well. I even feel that I can often predict which one is on the rise and which one isn't. After all every market follows certain business rules. Even if they seem weird to some guys, they are still market and business rules which are not dictated by personal preferences of individual clients. For example I have no fricking clue how Globe in Switzerland is doing so well. I really don't want to be there ever again even if you pay my whole night. And yet they are all the rave for I don't know how long.

[MonSooner]

I would agree that it is not the quality of the girls but the quality of service. Yes, it makes sense that a girl should be more enthusiastic if she collects almost double the money for an hour than in an FKK. Is that always the case? Of course not, it is still the same girl and it still depends on the situation and the client she is with. With the prices being very different in those 3 clubs and systems, many girls have already worked in all 3 of them and some even in all 4 if we add FP into the mix which I am not eager to do at this point.

But you know what's true for all girls working at all of those clubs? Each and every one of them wants to make more and more and if there is a whale in plain sight, then he is the "quality" in the room. LOL.

Now if you would ask me where the management tries to manipulate the girls into offering the best possible service, then Babylon and Maxim would be way ahead the FKKs in Vienna. Failure happens everywhere, though, but generally management at the nightclubs care more about how your experience was compared to GT.

YMMV.

I think that this wasn't at all true a few years ago and now it became true. If you speak to GT regulars all you will hear when asked about the management and owners is "they don't give a rat's ass".

This is what being the alpha FKK makes you, it seems.

As always, this is true now, can be different next week. But I feel it has been that way for a while.

[Massimo Potente]

Massimo-Potente since you are the expert, any idea in, GT Linz? Last trip I was so close to visit it however I didn't find an acceptable hotel next to it so I decided to keep it standby for next time.

Some common questions, number of WG / day, price, upselling / or bad service?, the club itself is it good (big / intresting)?

(Comparsion with GT Vienna can help as I was there twice).

And as I heard they offer Hookah, is the location of Hookah liberal throghout the club, or isolated in a small room only.

And to sum it up, what's your opinion, is it worth visiting or better to avois, since I usually have 2-3 vacations days therefore my days are very limited and I can't afford losing a day in a medicore club.

GT Linz (Leonding) is your best option in the whole area there. The club is pretty, better than GT in Vienna as far as the venue is concerned. Food is also much better. Girls are not comparable to GT Vienna and there will be less of them. I don't know about Hookah use, sorry. I think it is worth a visit for sure. Service level of the girls has varied much since they opened. At some point it was regarded as bad service and the girls openly charged extra for BBBJ and kissing but nowadays they don't anymore. So yeah, I would check it out if I were you, also the outside area with the sauna and pool is good. This belongs in the Linz thread, though.

http://www.internationalsexguide.inf....php?1626-Linz

[Pistons]

There was once was a difference but nowadays there isn't a difference anymore.

Pistons. 500 for an hour, 700 for 2 hours I think. Babylon opens at 19:00 and closes at 04:00 but other than GT they will party on if the right people are inside. Same for Maxim.

There are way more people than you think who feel uncomfortable in Saunaclubs. Others think it is beneath them and others are / feel too important to be seen in an open place like an FKK. And others don't want to be in a robe or towel and others don't want to be or look the same like every other normal guy but rather wants to stick out. And some people just want to spend money and show it and brag. And some people don't want to be with a girl who has already fucked a bunch of other guys. And others don't want to be seen walking in and out of the room doing the walk of shame. And others don't want to watch another guy doing the walk of shame. And the list goes on..

Different countries seems to have different attitudes towards privacy and egos regarding splashing money. I find it perfectly fine to discuss these things on a forum like this. To me, the Austrian market sounds weired. Especially in Vienna. But it is catered towards Austrians. And I suppose you have a point if a place like Babylon caters to CEO's of major firms, like Donald Trump's etc. I don't think such a club would have lasted one month where I live on the other hand because the richest people are usually the cheapest ones too around here. And the poorest people who try to splash their money, they either don't have, or would find 500 or 700 to be too much as well.

About my offer at Wellcum, I did not say that I took it. And I did not say that it was outside of the club. At a place like Wellcum I see no point in leaving the club either. What would we do? Go skiing? Or fishing in a river? You can already bring her to your hotel room at the club, and the food is perfectly fine. Reading you, it reminds me of Artemis's old policy towards the girls socialising with customers outside of the club though. And I would know better than that even if there are easy ways to counter it. In Berlin that was more of a realistic option and idea than in Villach however. Yet I am not really the guy to do these things. In a warmer country perhaps. At a beach in Thailand or Spain. But not in cold Germany or Austria where shopping is the main thing a girl prefers. I have my limits, LOL.

Maybe the reason why GT Vienna and Wellcum works, while Fun Palast and Paradise Graz does not work is the focus on design at GT and Wellcum. It was perhaps the one thing that struck me the most, how well the design was done at both clubs. It brings you in the right mood with the right lighting and design, and both places stood out a notch above anything in Germany on this front I felt. So I assume the Austrian and Italian clientelle focusses more on this than the Germans do. And also, the girls might feel better if the place feels right.

[MythoVirus]

Massimo-Potente since you are the expert, any idea in, GT Linz? Last trip I was so close to visit it however I didn't find an acceptable hotel next to it so I decided to keep it standby for next time.

Some common questions, number of WG / day, price, upselling / or bad service?, the club itself is it good (big / intresting)?

(Comparsion with GT Vienna can help as I was there twice).

And as I heard they offer Hookah, is the location of Hookah liberal throghout the club, or isolated in a small room only.

And to sum it up, what's your opinion, is it worth visiting or better to avois, since I usually have 2-3 vacations days therefore my days are very limited and I can't afford losing a day in a medicore club.

[Massimo Potente]

I would agree that it is not the quality of the girls but the quality of service. Yes, it makes sense that a girl should be more enthusiastic if she collects almost double the money for an hour than in an FKK. Is that always the case? Of course not, it is still the same girl and it still depends on the situation and the client she is with. With the prices being very different in those 3 clubs and systems, many girls have already worked in all 3 of them and some even in all 4 if we add FP into the mix which I am not eager to do at this point.

But you know what's true for all girls working at all of those clubs? Each and every one of them wants to make more and more and if there is a whale in plain sight, then he is the "quality" in the room. LOL.

Now if you would ask me where the management tries to manipulate the girls into offering the best possible service, then Babylon and Maxim would be way ahead the FKKs in Vienna. Failure happens everywhere, though, but generally management at the nightclubs care more about how your experience was compared to GT.

YMMV.

[Nimble Monkey]

Is there such a thing as quality of girls? They are all the same quality but work in different clubs for differenf reasons.

The fact that girls in FKKs are now starting to charge 100 and don't really want to do 60 sessions anymore should be indicative to how they think about the quality of clients coming. It's a never ending problem. Price discussions won't get us very far, I think.

I would respectfully beg to differ. There is a difference in the quality of girls. Absolutely, some providers are consistently better at providing good service to their clients than others? They like their clients and enjoy what they do. Others, not so much. My question was if your are paying a higher price you should be getting a very enthusiastic session I would hope.