Moscow

[Stravinsky]

Girls are flakey.

Yeah, isn't it great!


Thanks for the excellent breakdown of your effort to find and meet Russian women.

So you contacted 2,000 women online, and of those, 2.5% responded on a regular basis. You met 1% in person and you ended up having sex with .45% (including referrals).

This required a minimum initial investment of 600 hours of your time (450+150) online, probably more, plus the on-going investment of time to maintain these relationships. This doesn't count the time, and expense, of traveling to Russia several times.

There is an age-old debate about "freebies" vs. paid sex. I think those of us who have been mongering for a while understand that, aside from a brief period in the summer of 1967, there is no such thing as free sex. All sex is paid for, it's just a question of which currency you want to use. In your case you chose to spend your time and save on your cash money.

It's easy to think that our time is "free", but if you were to assign even a nominal value to your hundreds of hours of time, say the minimum wage, divided by the total number of girls and taking into account the fucks-per-girl, the cost of your approach is about the same as going to one of the clubs in Moscow that have on-site sex and taking a girl to one of the rooms. And it is significantly more expensive than meeting dyeffki through one of the online escort/massage sites in Moscow.

But then, those alternatives would not be anywhere nearly as much fun as the path you have chosen.


Curious about the Ukraine... have you been there? Why do you think it is easier to find sex there, than in Russia?

[YummyPL]

Sunday 9 FEB

$20 Groceries for the apartment.

$240 Dinner with Anistasiya.

Monday 10 FEB

$30 Lunch with Oksana

$160 Kori round trip plane ticket from Samara.

$50 Beers at John Bull Pub.

$40 Groceries for the apartment.

Tuesday 11 FEB

$50 Dinner with Anna

$15 Taxi fare for Anna

$20 round trip taxi for me.

Wednesday 12 FEB

$40 Dinner with Masha

$20 Beer for apartment

Thursday 13 FEB

$50 Dinner with Svetlana.

Friday 14 FEB

$50 spending for Kori

$20 roses for Masha

$60 Dinner with Masha

$10 Taxi for Masha

$30 Food for Apartment

Saturday 15 FEB

$50 Old School pub with Anna.

$20 Taxi Home

Sunday 16 FEB

$30 Exhibition with Ariel.

$60 Lunch with Ariel

$130 Dinner with Anastasiya.

Monday 17 FEB

$50 Groceries and Wine

$30 Café with Masha

$20 Cappuccinos with Anna.

$80 Dinner and drinks for myself (no girl except socializing)

Tuesday 18 FEB

$30 Exhibition with Ariel.

$80 Dinner and refreshments with Ariel.

Wednesday 19 FEB

$60 Lunch with Svetlana

$40 Dinner with Ariel

Thursday 20 FEB

$60 Lunch with Anna

$30 Lunch (again) with Ariel.

$40 Movie and snacks with Ariel.

$40 Light dinner with Ariel.

$3, 947

[YummyPL]

Strav asked me to write a little bit about my planning and methodology for meeting my 'freebies. '

First, I will say that I use a dating website with paid subscriptions. It is not inexpensive but as my friend described it, it is a 'goldmine' of women. ' Two other notes is that the website does not charge the women so there are a lot of flakes. Second, the website shares its database across several websites (I know of at least 4) and the website the girls go to is likely to be called something different than the one you go to.

I have built a profile for myself that has 4 pictures. One formal, one casual, one of me at the pool to show my body, and one with my horses. I have chosen pictures that I think show off my best features but that are easily recognizable as me. I am not a handsome or pretty guy, I don't look young, but I have a good body for my age. I actually write very little about myself in my profile. I don't mention my drinking or smoking habits as I adjust those to the girls I am seeing. I say that I am 42 but I am 46. I have been considering changing it to 39 as I think it would make a difference, but I look older than that.

On the website there are thousands of active girls that would meet my general requirements. I used to contact girls from all over, but I have decided to generally stick to Moscow as the ones I get from there are more than enough to keep me busy. In actuality, I wish I had stuck to Ukraine instead of coming to Moscow, and I might go back there if I stop seeing 'Ariel. ' In reality, I think Ukraine is MUCH easier than Russia if all you want is sex.

Over the last year being at that site, I have 'spammed' about 2000 girls with a general cut and paste message. There have only been a very few that I have customized the message for. The one customization I do is that I address all of them by name. I have tried variations on the message and made changes based on response rates and reactions. I contact girls from 18-35 but 95% are below 30 and I would guess 70% are below 26. I contact very few blondes. Over the last 6 months I have generally choosing girls that say they drink although only one of the girls I have met directly from the site did much drinking. I also don't contact girls unless the age range they are looking for is at least 35.

Looking at my messages I would say I get about a 20% initial response rate from my spam. After the initial response, I get about half writing a little longer and then I look for specific types of interests and responses. If the girl only responds to questions and does not ask her own questions, then I drop them pretty quickly. It is clear they are not that interested. Of the 2000 I have spammed, I have engaged in regular written conversation with about 50. Of those 50 I have met about 20 in person. Of those 20 in person meetings, I have fucked 7 and gotten referrals for 2 more that I have fucked.

I like to contact girls new to the site, and recently I have been contacting girls closer to when I arrive in Moscow. When I first met 'Ariel, ' I had had contacted her the day before on her first day on the site, and told her I was in Moscow right then. Girls are flakey. I think it is good not to write a very long time before meeting. I also tend to make first contact in Russian.

I also have stock responses to MANY questions now and will cut and paste to save time. I have a few 'interesting stories' that I can customize to the girl that really get them going. One story I consistently tell is that I just helped a friend deliver puppies and go into some of the details. It is a killer story and even with girls that don't seem particularly interested, I get renewed interest.

In the 4 months before I first went to Moscow, I would guess that I spent 400-500 hours on the site and writing to different girls. It was a lot of work. Since then I have spent much less time and now I am rarely on the site. I would guess that since August I have spent maybe 150 hours writing to girls. The initial investment was important to learn. Now I have not been on the site since the end of January. I communicate with my girls off the site and probably spend about 10 hours a week doing that. Right now I am actively working 5 girls and keeping 3 on the back burner with occasional contact.

That's all for now. I am happy to answer almost any question you have here except the name of the specific site I use. Just do an internet search. There are plenty of sites out there.

[BackToBass]

Jorge Rad10,

Sounds Great.

Congratulations

[Anaximander]

YummyPL,

Just read all of your reports in "one hit".

Well done, sir! Inspirational stuff. Makes me want to get on a plane tomorrow!

Thanks for taking the time to share with the forum. Look forward to your breakdown of costs!

Cheers,

AX

[Jake993]

I reckon that some of these factors may be involved (in addition to others) :

On the other hand, if you are into MILFs, it may stay good. There is a whole generation of women that never really had much sexual or romantic choice and may remain desperate for ever. But they are now 30 or so and up, and they are not going to get younger.

Cucumber,

Good analysis. I have to agree with you about the 30 year olds. Like it or not, they are the prime pickings. I find that the 20 somethings are a pain-in-the-ass. Their attitudes have disintegrated and I don't have the energy to put up with their BS anymore. But, maybe that's just me getting old. I find that the 30 somethings have the blend of looks, experience and attitude that I find so charming about Russian women. And there is no shortage of available, willing and able 30 somethings in Moscow!

[FlyForFun]

I called and was looking forward to this:

http://ilona-moscow.escort-site.com/photos.phtml

Instead, they sent the house pig. Said I would get a 50% discount.

Wasn't even close to the photos.

[Jorge Rad10]

Beginning of spring and I decided to pay a visit to Moscow to keep my network with devushkas alive. I have kept some contacts from my last visit in Moscow, even the guy who rented me out a nice apartment near Belorusskaya, which is really convenient when you take the aeroexpress early in the morning, I got good discount for a nice apartment near that station again. I texted some girls even semi pros, but they were busy for the weekend, not good for me, but also I have another girl who is fun to meet, so talked with her to meet up in town, which she agreed. First of all I got a lunch at Torro grill, nice resto, nice food and nice girls. After lunch I decided to stay at the bar, drinking white Russians, suddenly the bar was full of persons, mostly girls that want to chat with their friends and drink as well. I talked with some of them, but lack of Russians was a barrier. I waited there until my engagement with Masha, after so many white Russians I was a bit drunk, she called me to tell me she will be at Tverskaya at 9.00, so I left and took the metro, meet her chat a bit and head towards to a place where supposed to meet another group of expats, I'm not very keen to meet expats but this time I made an exception. The place was empty and look boring, so Masha suggested me to go somewhere, but not luck as well. She was a bit sick and told me to hang out another day, I hadn't a contingency plan. I thought a bit and head towards Papas places, it was early and I was a bit disappointed. I got Papas and get inside, full of youngsters, not my favorite place but for a couple of drinks I said I will be ok. I drank a bit suddenly a Russian approached to me speaking in Russian and wanted to dance with me, I said I don't dance but she wanted to stay with me talking, she was 19 yo from Russia nice girl, after some drinks we were dancing together, it was fun, she was together with some friends, which were not able to speak any word of English, so I step aside. More shots of whisky and a blond petite girl approached to me for dancing (What the hell happened that night) , she was beautiful, we danced together but she didn't speak any English, I used my smartphone but it didn't get internet, still she was talking to me in Russian while I tried to grab her and kiss without luck, she was a bit crazy, suddenly she disappeared. I said to myself I'm tired and the petite girl doesn't understand me, so I go home. I looked to my watch and I got 3 sms from a semi pro I met in December Sasha, she told she wanted to meet me and ask me if I would like also, I started a thread os sms back and forth, I told her we could meet at Lubianka metro station and then go to my place. I was still at Papas and the petite girl appeared again, she gave me her phone number I said I will call her and I left. I went to meet Sasha at the metro station, she was in a taxi and lost. When she got out the taxi I saw another girl, she told me she have texted me on behalf of Sasha, her name Katrina. I said it's ok, the girl was beautiful as well and we went to home. I was wrong the girl was hot, nice tits and nice body, she was a mix of Georgian and Russian, good English and she did a good blowjob, we both were tired so I said is ok for tonight and I said to her if she had time for Saturday afternoon, she said she will be free. Saturday I woke up late, so I missed a meeting with one girl 23 yo. I called her invented an excuse, she was pissed but hopefully we will meet another time. I called Katrina to make sure she will come to my place she texted me back confirming our appointment and suggested me to buy some drinks. We met at night and spend three hours with her, good sex included anal, which it was a surprise to me, because Saturday morning she didn't want to any finger in her ass, but she changed her mind, good for me. That was Moscow for short getaway, I promised myself to go in May when Moscow will be more sunny. Still devushkas are my favourites, they are so feminine and that drive me crazy every time I visit Russia.

[Gary Mong]

I reckon that some of these factors may be involved (in addition to others) :

1. There was a massive baby boom during perestroika. (This was partly a consequence of the social atmosphere, but to a significant extent a demographic echo of the baby boom after World War II, which keeps repeating itself every 20 or so years.) After the USSR collapsed in 1991 there was a dramatic fall in births. So there are fewer 18-25 year olds coming on stream now.

2. There has been an incredible beauty drain. The number of Russian women married off, involved in labour migration, working as prostitutes etc. All over the world is astounding. In the US, in most Latin American capitals, in many Asian capitals there are Russian working girls, wives, professionals.

3. Russian men are gradually getting their act together, drinking (a bit) less, smoking (a bit) less and so on. They have also become (a lot) wealthier. And they are scooping up attractive girls as girlfriends, wives, employees and thus those women end up off the streets and out of the bars (taking care of babies, jobs, on holiday etc.)...

This is a very insightful post. I am big fan of Russian females.

[Cucumber]

Ha ha, good anecdote.

I cannot remember seeing a girl in Moscow either on the streets or in the bars and restaurants that can compare with the ones I saw on my early trips. And I often struggle to explain this phenomenon. Have beautiful girls just become so commonplace to me that I am immune to their looks? Or have the really strikingly beautiful ones just disappeared from public view.

I reckon that some of these factors may be involved (in addition to others) :

1. There was a massive baby boom during perestroika. (This was partly a consequence of the social atmosphere, but to a significant extent a demographic echo of the baby boom after World War II, which keeps repeating itself every 20 or so years.) After the USSR collapsed in 1991 there was a dramatic fall in births. So there are fewer 18-25 year olds coming on stream now.

2. There has been an incredible beauty drain. The number of Russian women married off, involved in labour migration, working as prostitutes etc. All over the world is astounding. In the US, in most Latin American capitals, in many Asian capitals there are Russian working girls, wives, professionals.

3. Russian men are gradually getting their act together, drinking (a bit) less, smoking (a bit) less and so on. They have also become (a lot) wealthier. And they are scooping up attractive girls as girlfriends, wives, employees and thus those women end up off the streets and out of the bars (taking care of babies, jobs, on holiday etc.).

4. People in Russia got wealthier and their eating habits changed, so they are less slim, and thus there are fewer slim beautiful women around (as is the case in most of the world).

5. There is a lack of labour in Russia, and it is getting worse. Thus there are more non-prostitution jobs available.

Now the really interesting question is whether all these trends are going to come together and cause some kind of flip over in gender interaction in Russia when some or other threshold is crossed. Openness towards opportunities for sexual and romantic interaction with men has been ingrained in Russian women, because there were so few attractive men available, and because this had lasted for such a long time (at least since the deficit after World War II) that it had become amplified by cultural attitudes. But at some point Russian women and men are going to realize that the tables have turned. The men are going to start getting their act together and making a greater effort. Being sought after tends to make people arrogant, so the women may become more aloof. Once those processes start, they could reinforce each other and the situation could spiral rapidly.

Personally I think this is already happening, and Russia's is deteriorating as a destination for meeting women faster than people realize. Yes there is still fun to be had, especially if you are good looking and / or speak Russian and / or go to the provinces. But I am not sure how long that is going to last.

On the other hand, if you are into MILFs, it may stay good. There is a whole generation of women that never really had much sexual or romantic choice and may remain desperate for ever. But they are now 30 or so and up, and they are not going to get younger.

[Jake993]

So, Jake, who do you think will assume the mantle of the go-to place for picking up dyeffki? Will it be Old School Pub?

OSP is definitely a worthy potential successor. However, upon further investigation, I have heard that Club Che will reopen later this year. What is not clear at this point is whether it will be in the same location or a new location. Apparently, there were some problems with the building, landlord, etc. Usual situation for a club in Moscow.

[Stravinsky]

A moment of silence please.

So, Jake, who do you think will assume the mantle of the go-to place for picking up dyeffki? Will it be Old School Pub?

[Jorge Rad10]

By the way.

I cannot confirm this news first hand, but I have heard from a very reliable source that "Club Che" has CLOSED!

A moment of silence please.

I concur with Jake, I was planning to go there this weekend, since I'm in Moscow and is always fun there.

[Jake993]

By the way.

I cannot confirm this news first hand, but I have heard from a very reliable source that "Club Che" has CLOSED!

A moment of silence please.

[Jake993]

Finally, she went to Moscow and entered in the Miss Russia beauty contest. On the very first day she walked out onto the stage and all of the judges turned and looked at each other with the same thought. Finally, one of them said what they were all thinking: "Why is she here, she's not very pretty."

Ha ha, good anecdote.

I've lived in Moscow for 3 years now. Before that, I travelled in and out of Moscow on business since 2005. I remember my first visit back in 2005 and how my jaw dropped at the beauty of the girls here. But without a word of a lie, over the past 12 months (maybe more) I cannot remember seeing a girl in Moscow either on the streets or in the bars and restaurants that can compare with the ones I saw on my early trips. And I often struggle to explain this phenomenon. Have beautiful girls just become so commonplace to me that I am immune to their looks? Or have the really strikingly beautiful ones just disappeared from public view? I can't remember the last time I saw a woman in Moscow who made me sit back in amazement at her beauty. Of course, now that I am living here it's possible that I don't spend as much time in THOSE kinds of bar and restaurants that attract this type of girl, but I don't think so. I suppose I might just be getting used to it and now, rather than standing back in amazement, I am looking for the flaws right away. Who knows?