Moscow

[Iceberg27]

I like Prague but really I have mostly brought girls with me to Prague. The economy is really pretty good in the CR so I doubt many young girls are looking for old guys like me.

A place I have had some good success with freebies is Budapest. It has been a few years but the girls were willing and the prices for hotels and restaurants were cheap. Budapest is a great city. Bucharest, in my opinion, is not a place to go. The Romanian girls are sharks, and besides, the best ones are in German FKKs. I spent a little time in Sofia this past December and it seems like it has potential.

Yummy thanks for the info.

I have been in Budapest. The island is nice with night clubs. Nice meat with cheap price is also a plus there.

I will try Sophia because it's close to here.

Regards.

[YummyPL]

What you think for Prague? I have been there but only tried p4p places unfortunately.

I like Prague but really I have mostly brought girls with me to Prague. The economy is really pretty good in the CR so I doubt many young girls are looking for old guys like me.

A place I have had some good success with freebies is Budapest. It has been a few years but the girls were willing and the prices for hotels and restaurants were cheap. Budapest is a great city. Bucharest, in my opinion, is not a place to go. The Romanian girls are sharks, and besides, the best ones are in German FKKs. I spent a little time in Sofia this past December and it seems like it has potential.

[YummyPL]

If I may be so bold as to attempt a response for YummyPL, I think it as simple as economics.

Strav, yes I have been in Ukraine. I think Jake's analysis is spot on. The one thing I would add is a point that cucumber makes:

3. Russian men are gradually getting their act together, drinking (a bit) less, smoking (a bit) less and so on. They have also become (a lot) wealthier. And they are scooping up attractive girls as girlfriends, wives, employees and thus those women end up off the streets and out of the bars (taking care of babies, jobs, on holiday etc.).

I think this is absolutely true in Russia, but hardly true at all in Ukraine. I don't want to be offensive to our Ukrainian brothers, but notwithstanding the very small wealthy class, they really have not "gotten their act together." So not only are there fewer economic opportunities for the girls in Ukraine, there are also fewer prospects of finding a good quality Ukrainian man.

[Jake993]

Do you think they speak Russian there?

You know, THAT is a helleva question.

Previous to all of this Maidan business, you could speak Russian to ANYONE on the street in Kiev and get and answer back in Russian. Conversely, you could ask a question in Ukrainian to anyone on the street in Kiev and it was 50:50 that they would answer you in Russian. I don't know if that was because they did not want to speak Ukrainian or if they COULD NOT speak it properly despite the fact they knew what I was asking. I wonder if that's still the case or have people reverted back to Ukrainian.

As an interesting side-bar, I know a GOEGEOUS blondinka in the UK who was born in Ukraine to a Russian speaking family in the Eastern part of the country. While she spoke Russian with her family at home, it just so happened that the nearest school to her home was a Ukrainian language school so guess what? Yup, she learned Ukrainian as well. I originally met her in Moscow where she work as a translator speaking Russian, Ukrainian, English, Chinese AND Italian fluently. She eventually fell in love with some "pastey white" British fellow and moved to some God awful town in Northern England.

We still keep in touch and she told me recently that with all of this Maidan business, she has rediscovered her Ukrainian-ness. When she lived in Moscow she was quite embarrassed about her Ukrainian passport and, in fact, cursed her bad luck for being born in such a goofy country. BUT NOW she's done a complete turn around and refuses to speak Russian because of what Mr. P has done to her homeland.

OK, OK, I admit it, she is a bit of a flake. Ahhh. But a gorgeous flake (I'm SURE I posted a naked photo of her somewhere) and it's interesting to see how recent events have made her reconsider her attitudes towards the country where she was born.

[Smdrr]

To a certain extent it depends what you are looking for. Some sites serve some interests better than others.

GT

Thank you for the response GT! This is very helpful. I have also been on the LuckyLovers site just for the heck of it and found that in a little amount of time after I posted a travel companion ad, I got fair bit of interest in my profile views and emails sent all seem from genuine and real girls some pretty attractive. I guess in the end in does depend on what somebody is looking for. I for one would like to look for freebies on these sites as I get my fair share of P4P banging stunning EE women in German FKKs every now and then. Now that my work requirements allow me to travel more leisurely I am considering these other destinations for freebie girls and Russia / Ukraine versus Thailand / Philippines seem two very viable though very different options.

[Stravinsky]

Spending thousands of hours on internet for finding girls to fuck with can be logical because when you try to find the little percentage of girls who can speak average level english on the street or in a bar can be quite frustrating. You just copy a message and if she responds yeah it's more likely she speaks english.

I understand the guy traveling to Moscow for a one-off trip, or a few days of business, doesn't want to waste a lot of time learning a new language. But I would think that someone who loves the women and can be in Moscow in a couple of hours, without any visa requirement, would want to invest some time in learning the lingo.

It will allow you to spend your time and money as you wish, not as you must.

In fact, one of my Moscow girlfriends gave me the "3rd degree" before I left for a long weekend in Ukraine telling me to make sure I protect myself from the "piranhas" in Kiev. Even SHE knows the score and felt a little threatened knowing that I was going to a city where the girls are more "available".

To me, this is the acid test. We guys are clueless, but the chicks all seem to know what's what.

Well, I'm glad someone knows what's going on. It was very considerate of your GF to point you in the direction of the hottest колхозницы (Ukrainian girls). Is this what you found?


OK, so it looks like, добро пожаловать Украину (welcome to the Ukraine)

Do you think they speak Russian there?

[Gentleman Travel]

Good analysis. I have to agree with you about the 30 year olds. Like it or not, they are the prime pickings. I find that the 20 somethings are a pain-in-the-ass. Their attitudes have disintegrated and I don't have the energy to put up with their BS anymore. But, maybe that's just me getting old. I find that the 30 somethings have the blend of looks, experience and attitude that I find so charming about Russian women. And there is no shortage of available, willing and able 30 somethings in Moscow!

It's encouraging to hear you say that Jake, given your constant exposure to all that is on offer.

In planning for my upcoming trip, I have connected with a lot of interesting 28-35 year-olds, but was feeling I should be trying harder to score younger girls, just on principle!

But maybe I should be content with eager 30ish freebies, rather than getting into the hassles of figuring out what I need to do to entice and entertain a 22 year old.

[Iceberg27]

Strav,

If I may be so bold as to attempt a response for YummyPL, I think it as simple as economics. Financially, Ukrainians are just not as prosperous as Russians at this time. Whether it's for prostitution, sponsorship, companionship, drinks, sex or just a free meal, people who are economically "stressed" are putting themselves "out there" with great vigor and regularity. Just a simple example comparing Moscow today to 10 years ago shows us that there are not NEARLY as many girls who are overtly "available" today in bars and clubs as there was back then. I'm not saying that there are not plenty of girls in Moscow clubs and bars today, but their whole attitude is different. They are not "hungry" the way they used to be and the way they appear to be these days in Ukraine. My last trip to Ukraine was over a year ago but I noticed the difference right away. In fact, one of my Moscow girlfriends gave me the "3rd degree" before I left for a long weekend in Ukraine telling me to make sure I protect myself from the "piranhas" in Kiev. Even SHE knows the score and felt a little threatened knowing that I was going to a city where the girls are more "available".

To me, this is the acid test. We guys are clueless, but the chicks all seem to know what's what.

I have just couldn't stop myself to involve in this discussion. I have already turned back from a Cologne-Amsterdam 10 days trip. Yes I know I am an idiot to go for Amsterdam. Maybe I write a report in it's own thread.

And Strav for your information it's always more and more fun being in German FKK than being in Moscow if you are interested in P4P.

IMHO Ukraine yes usually easier than Russia. And they are for me more beatiful. I like brunette blondes and they are less in Russia. Check latest post of Prosal in Ukraine Other areas section for Zaparotja.

It's obviously more preferable to have some freebie sex than paid sex and if it would be possible I would choose to have some freebie sex with more cost but as you know it's always less cost.

Spending thousands of hours on internet for finding girls to fuck with can be logical because when you try to find the little percentage of girls who can speak average level english on the street or in a bar can be quite frustrating. You just copy a message and if she responds yeah it's more likely she speaks english. But I believe it's not for all of us. Personally if I have time I would go to the city and join some public activities and meet with someone. Much easier. I don't say it's easier to pick them up in a bar or night club. I say if you can spend a 10 days in Moscow and make them believe that you are resident your life will be easier. Why not get there and just joing a Yoga or Salsa class? I bet you will meet hundreds of Dyevhucshas. Just my opinion.

Last words. I think here another important question is which city is best for picking up freebies?

I will respond this Moscow. I am curious about your opinions also. I have been in Ukraine in two times.

Yummy,

What you think for Prague? I have been there but only tried p4p places unfortunately.

Note:The Old School Pub is i think not a good place for us who is over 30 because as the name implies it's a place for students.
After hundreds of days spend to find freebies in European cities i figured out that the name of the place it's location and type of music they play has a major effect the age of people there present.Believe me most of you dont want to be in a bar or night club filled with twenties and compete with the others.Check my post in Other section in Ukraine in Evpatoria.

BR

[Gentleman Travel]

Thanks for the report. I was curious about this last point cause I have asked this question (which dating sites) before from one or two mongers and received no response. Is it simply because of the ISG forum rules you don't want to share the names or is it because there are differences in quality of different websites and girls and you don't want to reveal the good sources? . Would I be equally lucky if I used any of the main dating sites?

To a certain extent it depends what you are looking for. Some sites serve some interests better than others.

The basic default site is Mamba. Ru (date. Ru). Tens of thousands of active members, thousands on-line at any time. Yes there are a lot of fake profiles and "pros" or escort services behind many profiles, but you can figure most of this out over time. And maybe you are looking for pros or similar girls. But equally there are huge numbers of normal girls, although many are not necessarily looking for Western men, whereas many other sites are all about East-West relations.

In the past (years ago) I likes LuckyLovers, as it seemed to have all "real" girls and had a good chat / forum discussion feature which allowed you to really get to know some of the girls. However, now it seems to be a very small pond of mostly older women. There might only be a couple of dozen on-line at any given time (and usually those are the same old war horses). However, I have still found some gems there, but will probably not rejoin, now that I understand how small the pool is.

Again in the past I used Elenas Models with some success. It also seemed to have all (mostly) real girls, of decent quality, with good English skills and open to older guys. However when I read the girl's blurbs now it sounds like they are all written by the same person, so I am suspicious of it. Also a lot of the girls have been there a long time, maybe they are mostly "professional daters" (I don't mean P4P, but just seeking free dinners and presents). An upside to Elena's is it's heavily biased towards Ukrainian women, which works for me.

In my opinion, things to look for in a dating site:

- statistics about active users.

- information on each profile about most recent log-in (lots of sites have thousands of inactive profiles)

- girl's language ability.

- on-line translation (if you care about that. But really, if you cannot talk to them on-line you are not going to be able to talk to them in person!)

- girl's partnership interests. Age range, marriage or dating, etc.

- good search criteria.

- clear fee structure that lets you talk directly to the girls.

The things to avoid:

- fees for every letter sent, or translations by intermediaries.

- sites that try to sell you flowers or gifts to send, lots of extra fees (Anastasia) , romance tours (A Foreign Affair)

- sites where you create a profile for free (most do) but then it costs a lot to send or read letters. And guess what? After you create a pro-forma profile, you discover a handful of letters from amazing women in your inbox, but you cannot read them until you pony up $$$. How real do you think those profiles are?

Within any site, I further avoid profiles with only one photo and minimal profile information. A real girl seeking real dates is going to put a lot more effort into her profile.

Happy hunting,

GT

[Jake993]

Curious about the Ukraine. have you been there? Why do you think it is easier to find sex there, than in Russia?

Strav,

If I may be so bold as to attempt a response for YummyPL, I think it as simple as economics. Financially, Ukrainians are just not as prosperous as Russians at this time. Whether it's for prostitution, sponsorship, companionship, drinks, sex or just a free meal, people who are economically "stressed" are putting themselves "out there" with great vigor and regularity. Just a simple example comparing Moscow today to 10 years ago shows us that there are not NEARLY as many girls who are overtly "available" today in bars and clubs as there was back then. I'm not saying that there are not plenty of girls in Moscow clubs and bars today, but their whole attitude is different. They are not "hungry" the way they used to be and the way they appear to be these days in Ukraine. My last trip to Ukraine was over a year ago but I noticed the difference right away. In fact, one of my Moscow girlfriends gave me the "3rd degree" before I left for a long weekend in Ukraine telling me to make sure I protect myself from the "piranhas" in Kiev. Even SHE knows the score and felt a little threatened knowing that I was going to a city where the girls are more "available".

To me, this is the acid test. We guys are clueless, but the chicks all seem to know what's what.

[Smdrr]

I am happy to answer almost any question you have here except the name of the specific site I use. Just do an internet search. There are plenty of sites out there.

Thanks for the report. I was curious about this last point cause I have asked this question (which dating sites) before from one or two mongers and received no response. Is it simply because of the ISG forum rules you don't want to share the names or is it because there are differences in quality of different websites and girls and you don't want to reveal the good sources? . Would I be equally lucky if I used any of the main dating sites?

[Stravinsky]

Girls are flakey.

Yeah, isn't it great!


Thanks for the excellent breakdown of your effort to find and meet Russian women.

So you contacted 2,000 women online, and of those, 2.5% responded on a regular basis. You met 1% in person and you ended up having sex with .45% (including referrals).

This required a minimum initial investment of 600 hours of your time (450+150) online, probably more, plus the on-going investment of time to maintain these relationships. This doesn't count the time, and expense, of traveling to Russia several times.

There is an age-old debate about "freebies" vs. paid sex. I think those of us who have been mongering for a while understand that, aside from a brief period in the summer of 1967, there is no such thing as free sex. All sex is paid for, it's just a question of which currency you want to use. In your case you chose to spend your time and save on your cash money.

It's easy to think that our time is "free", but if you were to assign even a nominal value to your hundreds of hours of time, say the minimum wage, divided by the total number of girls and taking into account the fucks-per-girl, the cost of your approach is about the same as going to one of the clubs in Moscow that have on-site sex and taking a girl to one of the rooms. And it is significantly more expensive than meeting dyeffki through one of the online escort/massage sites in Moscow.

But then, those alternatives would not be anywhere nearly as much fun as the path you have chosen.


Curious about the Ukraine... have you been there? Why do you think it is easier to find sex there, than in Russia?

[YummyPL]

Sunday 9 FEB

$20 Groceries for the apartment.

$240 Dinner with Anistasiya.

Monday 10 FEB

$30 Lunch with Oksana

$160 Kori round trip plane ticket from Samara.

$50 Beers at John Bull Pub.

$40 Groceries for the apartment.

Tuesday 11 FEB

$50 Dinner with Anna

$15 Taxi fare for Anna

$20 round trip taxi for me.

Wednesday 12 FEB

$40 Dinner with Masha

$20 Beer for apartment

Thursday 13 FEB

$50 Dinner with Svetlana.

Friday 14 FEB

$50 spending for Kori

$20 roses for Masha

$60 Dinner with Masha

$10 Taxi for Masha

$30 Food for Apartment

Saturday 15 FEB

$50 Old School pub with Anna.

$20 Taxi Home

Sunday 16 FEB

$30 Exhibition with Ariel.

$60 Lunch with Ariel

$130 Dinner with Anastasiya.

Monday 17 FEB

$50 Groceries and Wine

$30 Café with Masha

$20 Cappuccinos with Anna.

$80 Dinner and drinks for myself (no girl except socializing)

Tuesday 18 FEB

$30 Exhibition with Ariel.

$80 Dinner and refreshments with Ariel.

Wednesday 19 FEB

$60 Lunch with Svetlana

$40 Dinner with Ariel

Thursday 20 FEB

$60 Lunch with Anna

$30 Lunch (again) with Ariel.

$40 Movie and snacks with Ariel.

$40 Light dinner with Ariel.

$3, 947

[YummyPL]

Strav asked me to write a little bit about my planning and methodology for meeting my 'freebies. '

First, I will say that I use a dating website with paid subscriptions. It is not inexpensive but as my friend described it, it is a 'goldmine' of women. ' Two other notes is that the website does not charge the women so there are a lot of flakes. Second, the website shares its database across several websites (I know of at least 4) and the website the girls go to is likely to be called something different than the one you go to.

I have built a profile for myself that has 4 pictures. One formal, one casual, one of me at the pool to show my body, and one with my horses. I have chosen pictures that I think show off my best features but that are easily recognizable as me. I am not a handsome or pretty guy, I don't look young, but I have a good body for my age. I actually write very little about myself in my profile. I don't mention my drinking or smoking habits as I adjust those to the girls I am seeing. I say that I am 42 but I am 46. I have been considering changing it to 39 as I think it would make a difference, but I look older than that.

On the website there are thousands of active girls that would meet my general requirements. I used to contact girls from all over, but I have decided to generally stick to Moscow as the ones I get from there are more than enough to keep me busy. In actuality, I wish I had stuck to Ukraine instead of coming to Moscow, and I might go back there if I stop seeing 'Ariel. ' In reality, I think Ukraine is MUCH easier than Russia if all you want is sex.

Over the last year being at that site, I have 'spammed' about 2000 girls with a general cut and paste message. There have only been a very few that I have customized the message for. The one customization I do is that I address all of them by name. I have tried variations on the message and made changes based on response rates and reactions. I contact girls from 18-35 but 95% are below 30 and I would guess 70% are below 26. I contact very few blondes. Over the last 6 months I have generally choosing girls that say they drink although only one of the girls I have met directly from the site did much drinking. I also don't contact girls unless the age range they are looking for is at least 35.

Looking at my messages I would say I get about a 20% initial response rate from my spam. After the initial response, I get about half writing a little longer and then I look for specific types of interests and responses. If the girl only responds to questions and does not ask her own questions, then I drop them pretty quickly. It is clear they are not that interested. Of the 2000 I have spammed, I have engaged in regular written conversation with about 50. Of those 50 I have met about 20 in person. Of those 20 in person meetings, I have fucked 7 and gotten referrals for 2 more that I have fucked.

I like to contact girls new to the site, and recently I have been contacting girls closer to when I arrive in Moscow. When I first met 'Ariel, ' I had had contacted her the day before on her first day on the site, and told her I was in Moscow right then. Girls are flakey. I think it is good not to write a very long time before meeting. I also tend to make first contact in Russian.

I also have stock responses to MANY questions now and will cut and paste to save time. I have a few 'interesting stories' that I can customize to the girl that really get them going. One story I consistently tell is that I just helped a friend deliver puppies and go into some of the details. It is a killer story and even with girls that don't seem particularly interested, I get renewed interest.

In the 4 months before I first went to Moscow, I would guess that I spent 400-500 hours on the site and writing to different girls. It was a lot of work. Since then I have spent much less time and now I am rarely on the site. I would guess that since August I have spent maybe 150 hours writing to girls. The initial investment was important to learn. Now I have not been on the site since the end of January. I communicate with my girls off the site and probably spend about 10 hours a week doing that. Right now I am actively working 5 girls and keeping 3 on the back burner with occasional contact.

That's all for now. I am happy to answer almost any question you have here except the name of the specific site I use. Just do an internet search. There are plenty of sites out there.

[BackToBass]

Jorge Rad10,

Sounds Great.

Congratulations