Moscow

[Gentleman Travel]

Really? I've met a ton of girls (online and in person) who hint that they'll give it up immediately if I take them on vacation. Of course you need to negotiate testing the goods in advance, but this shouldn't cost you more than airfare, visa and a modicum of spending money.

Are you saying normal Swiss girls will put out for a ski vacation?
Or are we both talking about importing Russian girls?
I find it hard enough to make inroads with Russian girls already in Europe,
to hit up European girls (I am 50) seems as hopeless as back home (NA).
And the ISG forums for most European cities are all about P4P, not freebies.
So if you have a formula for success, please share...

[Priamos]

E minus ??? Is that, like, between a D-sharp and an E-flat?

My conclusions about Russia and Russians are based on the empirical evidence: mainly my own, but also that of many other people I have known over the years and some that I have read about.

Lighten up, my defence de fumer is simply to say that it is difficult to understand anything completely by observing it from a distance. Don't take my word for it, go there and see for yourself.

Stravinsky, your response is music to my ears (so to speak).

Anyway, you and the Doctor seem to assume that I've never been to Russia? That's wrong: I've visited twice, but admittedly to St.Petersburg both times rather than Moscow. Skank's point about Moscow being a state in the state is relevant here - that's also what I've (!) heard - and anyway I have relatives in Piter who nannied me incredibly so it's not the same thing.

But, more to the point: my wife is Russian. Mais oui! We didn't meet in Russia, but she still has the passport. And she, I have to admit, rather agrees with you. She keeps telling me "Priam, your western Liberal do-something-good-for-the-world attitude will come across to Russians as weak and naive. They'll eat you for breakfast." And...

...like you she keeps telling me to go and see for myself. Well, next week I will!

[Doctor_Skank]

"Moscow cannot be compared with other cities of similar size, income and demographic characteristics." Well why not? "Because... uhm... Russia is different!"

Eh...?

Guess what? Strav's right. And not only is Russia different, Moscow is different from Russia. I wouldn't trade it for any other city in the world.

Let me guess though, Brazil is different than every where else to.. or do I know Brazil because I saw some things about it on TV?

[Stravinsky]

Priamos,

E minus ??? Is that, like, between a D-sharp and an E-flat?

My conclusions about Russia and Russians are based on the empirical evidence: mainly my own, but also that of many other people I have known over the years and some that I have read about.

Lighten up, my defence de fumer is simply to say that it is difficult to understand anything completely by observing it from a distance. Don't take my word for it, go there and see for yourself. I'm sure you will agree.

If you do, can I have a chance to re-take that test? You know... if I fail this class, my whole life will be ruined!

всего доброго

[Pizdyets]

CitySpace Bar on top floor of SwissOtel Kransye Holmy. Go at dusk and order a single drink.... anything else is too expensive. But the view is awesome. That bar has gotten me laid many times... but also cost me a small fortune. BTW... it's a BRING a date place. It would be pretty awkward trying to pick someone up there... single girls don't go there because it's too expensive. BTW, did I mention it's expensive?

Put Kalina Bar and Red Bar in the same bucket as CitySpace. Cocktail prices are directly proportional to elevation, without a doubt (which is probably why I prefer places in the podval). But yeah, laying out that kinda dough you need to seriously weigh whether or not it will get you laid. My last trip to Kalina Bar impressed the hell out of my date, but left me with a bed as empty as my wallet.

[Pizdyets]

I am sure it cannot be cheap to fly a girl in from Moscow or Kyiv, but it is hopeless to try to bed local Swiss girls...

Really? I've met a ton of girls (online and in person) who hint that they'll give it up immediately if I take them on vacation. Of course you need to negotiate testing the goods in advance, but this shouldn't cost you more than airfare, visa and a modicum of spending money.

[Priamos]

You're not dealing with normal girls, you're dealing with russian dyeffki. And that, after all, is why we're here, isn't it? Stop trying to figure them out and just enjoy them, like the rest of us.

If you're looking for normal girls, spend your weekends in Germany... bitte.

Ah, now we're back to the core of your argument, aren't we? A defence plaidoyer based on the insightful observation that "that's just the way it is".
Well, Stravinsky, answering an earlier question of yours, I WAS offered a teaching chair (in social sciences) at a university in my younger days. I refused because I wanted to earn some money instead. - And a good thing that I did; I should have had to give you an E- for the quality of your sociological analysis: "Moscow cannot be compared with other cities of similar size, income and demographic characteristics." Well why not? "Because... uhm... Russia is different!"

Eh...?

[Stravinsky]

Priamos,

Europe has no monopoly on elitism, it's a part of human nature, you can find it anywhere: in Denmark, in Russia, even in Texas! Yii-haaa!

Well, a normal girl (applying again my strictly subjective standards) would have had the decency to communicate this fact.

Well, this is what it all comes down to doesn't it? You're not dealing with normal girls, you're dealing with russian dyeffki. And that, after all, is why we're here, isn't it? Stop trying to figure them out and just enjoy them, like the rest of us.

If you're looking for normal girls, spend your weekends in Germany... bitte.

[Stravinsky]

Priamos,

It's not the Russkii muzhik you have to watch out for, it's the Russkaya zhyenshina.

then one is on that slippery slope toward nihilism.

Yeah, I know exactly how you feel, that's a constant concern in my life as well. God forbid we should start down that slippery slope to nihilism!

So tell me, what do you like to do to have fun? You know, between studying the history of the Ottoman empire, re-reading Kant and provoking French ski resort shop clerks?

[Gentleman Travel]

That said, I'm afraid that what we have here is my being worse than naive - I'm being judgemental! I also compare my experiences at Swiss skiing resorts with my experiences at French skiing resorts. And, as these invariably fall out to Swiss advantage, rub assorted French noses with my conclusions.

Much more interesting than your musings on Dostoyevski would be hearing whether you have tried luring dyevs to join you on these ski expeditions?
I have been contemplating such a thing for Switzerland this winter.
I am sure it cannot be cheap to fly a girl in from Moscow or Kyiv, but it is hopeless to try to bed local Swiss girls...

[Priamos]

I think I finally understand why you are having so much difficulty: you think too much. It's always very dangerous to over-analyze Russian behaviour. If you try to apply the calm, rational calculating mind of the Nordic race to Russians, you will only drive yourself crazy.

Yeah. The UK Prime Minister Palmerstone went into the same trap prior to the Crimean War. He was convinced that the Czar's propaganda machine had shot itself in the foot: "Going to war to drive the Turks out of the Holy City?? Such Messianic twaddle! For Pete's sake, this is the 19th century!" Some of his Russia advisors DID tell him that he hadn't understood the mind of the Russian Muchik...

To be honest, while reading your report, I assumed that you were actually in Moscow, communicating with this dyevchonka. If I was surprised to discover that you were not in Moscow, imagine how surprised she must have been!

Not so. I told her up front that I am currently abroad and coming to Russia next week. The only point I'm making is that it's strange to have a deal stitched up with all information in hand and THEN bolt over a bagatelle like my foreignness AFTER having extracted a photo that would, other things equal, have reassured her that I'm a bone fide client and (wearing expensive clothes) a quite wealthy man. But... maybe foreigners in general just make her freak out and, if she's not exactly a rocket scientist herself, needed 24 hours to connect the dots.

And the idea that you can compare Rio with Moscow simply because they are "cities of similar sizes and income levels" is, I'm sorry to say, simply naive.

Well, being naive and thinking too much is clearly a bad combination. So much effort for so little effect.

That said, I'm afraid that what we have here is my being worse than naive - I'm being judgemental! I also compare my experiences at Swiss skiing resorts with my experiences at French skiing resorts. And, as these invariably fall out to Swiss advantage, rub assorted French noses with my conclusions. On the face of it, this is also naive. How can you compare an arch-protestant shop assistant who considers failure a personal affront with a Gallic fatalist whose attitude is "Oh la la, it's not my fault. I only work here"? Logically you cannot. But if one doesn't make this comparison, if one jumps into moral relativism of the kind "well, that's just the way things work here" then one is on that slippery slope toward nihilism. And...

... as even, F.M.Dostoyevskij would tell you, that's never the right place to be.

[Jake993]

And the idea that you can compare Rio with Moscow simply because they are "cities of similar sizes and income levels" is, I'm sorry to say, simply naive.)

Not to beat a dead horse, but having been in both Rio and Moscow within a two week period, I can categorically confirm that comparing girls from those cities is like comparing potatoes and acerola. I am sure there are things in this world that are more different, but I can't imagine what they might be. Sure they have the same physical attributes, but while the Brasileiras are predictable in their own chaotic sort of way, I have found the moods, emotions (or lack thereof), and decision process of Russian women to be as unpredictable and non-linear as the Moscow weather. Come to think of it, my Ukrainian Babusha was equally as erratic.

[Doctor_Skank]

It's always very dangerous to over-analyze Russian behaviour. If you try to apply the calm, rational calculating mind of the Nordic race to Russians, you will only drive yourself crazy.

Russians have a unique logic all their own, and they're not telling. You can't understand it intellectually, you simply have to experience it: it's an heuristic process.

Words of wisdom, Strav.

And that's a fact. But... whether or not the girl is going to ultimately honour the terms of that deal...? O Tempora, O Mores!

And another point... don't go into paranoia mode. Of course one should be watchful and inherently cautious. But generally speaking, nobody in Moscow is "out to get you". As Lukasek eloquently stated, in fact the thing about Moscow is NOBODY GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOU.

You're on your own, and even though it can be a grind, ultimately it's a challenge that if met can yield great rewards.

Happy hunting!

[Stravinsky]

Priamos,

Are you some sort of university professor? Maybe a nuclear physicist? Or a rocket scientist? I'm sorry, please don't take this the wrong way, but my head is spinning trying to understand the logic of your approach. I think I finally understand why you are having so much difficulty: you think too much. It's always very dangerous to over-analyze Russian behaviour. If you try to apply the calm, rational calculating mind of the Nordic race to Russians, you will only drive yourself crazy.

Russians have a unique logic all their own, and they're not telling. You can't understand it intellectually, you simply have to experience it: it's an heuristic process.

To be honest, while reading your report, I assumed that you were actually in Moscow, communicating with this dyevchonka. If I was surprised to discover that you were not in Moscow, imagine how surprised she must have been!

And the idea that you can compare Rio with Moscow simply because they are "cities of similar sizes and income levels" is, I'm sorry to say, simply naive.

There is no way to plan a trip to Russia. Go get yourself a visa, get on a plane and go, already!

Don't worry, we'll all be here, urging you on.

[Priamos]

I think you are reading too much into it. I think she just got scared when she realized you weren't who she thought you were and got skittish.

It isn't abnormal for girls to go totally silent anyway. Maybe she found a better john for the night. Or got her period. Could also be her boyfriend read her email and beat the shit out of her. Who knows.

Yeah, I suppose it could be true. Mind you, she knew I was a foreigner and a total newcomer to the Moscow scene, so the "skittish" part doesn't apply. But any one of your other points of course do. I'd like to have said that "in my part of the world these things work much better" but... well, it's easier to negotiate a full deal online in West Europe. - And that's a fact. But... whether or not the girl is going to ultimately honour the terms of that deal...? O Tempora, O Mores!