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07-04-22 19:11 #311
Posts: 526Originally Posted by PayForIt [View Original Post]
It's not hard to foresee a situation where post legislation enforcement would come down hard on the less popular but high profile activities. Produce the required column inches in the media with the message "Something is being done". The unpopular will be sacrificed for the popular.
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07-03-22 14:56 #310
Posts: 6400It's no joke!
Originally Posted by PayForIt [View Original Post]
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07-03-22 14:15 #309
Posts: 1854Originally Posted by AndalusExpat [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by AndalusExpat [View Original Post]
Originally Posted by AndalusExpat [View Original Post]
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07-03-22 05:01 #308
Posts: 526Originally Posted by PayForIt [View Original Post]
I can't think of anywhere in Europe would want the FKK experience. Presumably why only Germany has it. A room full of naked women strutting their stuff? It's about as subtle as a butchers shop. Do you really find that sexually stimulating? I don't know how you'd cope with a real FKK. Keep your towel in your lap I suppose. Most of Europe (The World?) want erotic, not in your face. But as I implied, Germans are odd. I was sitting in a bar in Frankfurt one night, killing time for a train connection. Ordinary bar. Few people & couples sitting around drinking. Screen unrolled itself from the ceiling & we were given 10 minutes of hardcore porn. Nobody even glanced at it. The why of it completely escaped me. But Germans. Baveria was OK. But Catholic Germany. Different culture. And most of my dealings were with the US military furthering the region's wine exports.
The chances of me ever returning to the UK are less than zero. Done that. Got the T-shirt.
"You should travel a bit more!" Every country in mainland Europe bar Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Greece & some of the new Balkans. All by road. Only way to really see anywhere. An Algerian village in the Sahara for several months via the ferry & Morocco. Sierra Leone (a shithole). NYC & NJ but not as a tourist. Rest of the USA would require a lifetime. But you're right. I should travel more. I regularly get told to fuck off.
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07-03-22 00:54 #307
Posts: 1854Originally Posted by AndalusExpat [View Original Post]
You should venture around the UK. Many parts of it are stunning (including Scotland, the Lakes, Cotswolds, Cornwall (which has better beaches than anywhere on the CDS) and part of Wales. Germany has some equally beautiful places. Bavaria is stunning, Hamburg is a lovely city (rich) ignoring the tacky Reep. Not only Germans want FKKs. Indeed most Germans complain about the amount of tourists in FKKs and how much they are willing to pay for girls which ups prices for locals. You should travel a bit more!
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07-02-22 14:49 #306
Posts: 526Originally Posted by PayForIt [View Original Post]
Germany's the one country in Europe I prefer to avoid. Despite living a couple hours drive from it for several years. Pass through, don't stop. It was far better when there were two of them. That FKKs exist is part of the reason. Only Germans could want them.
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06-30-22 20:30 #305
Posts: 1854Originally Posted by AndalusExpat [View Original Post]
I know a host of home owners in Spain who use the big clubs. I meet a lot of them in them!
I know quite a lot about Germany irrespective of FKKs and have a business there.
It won't be difficult to hunt pussy in Europe at all. As you rightly said, guys want to fuck and girls want the buck. It is easy.
I know plenty about Spain, Germany, Thailand, Dubai, the UK.
Oh and. I don't like Blackpool and I don't like Blackpool in the Sun!
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06-30-22 14:58 #304
Posts: 526Originally Posted by PayForIt [View Original Post]
Where I do thoroughly agree with you is it'll make little practical difference to the girls & their clients. The guys want a fuck & the girls want the money. Something that's been going on since Ug was exchanging knapped flints for beaver is not going to disappear just because of shouty women with bad hair not approving. Drugs have been illegal for long enough. I could source you as much primo charlie as you could carry with one quick phone call. It's easier now than it's ever been. I've punted with no trouble in France since their legislation. Swedes I know seem to manage in Sweden.
Sex tourism on Spain? I don't think the Spanish give a toss. They'd rather you weren't here. The only people who really benefit are a few clubs because you don't know anything else. Foreigners who live here or have connections with the country, second homes here, are much more important. More money gets put around wider. But few of us even use the clubs. Sorry but 15 sweaty oiks in Estark for a beer & a half hour does not an economy make. The people you are deriding in the resort "Blackpools" are Spain's bread & butter. Volume beats quality every time. But they're here for sun sand & sangria, rarely sex. Do you actually know anything about Germany apart from your FKK's? Again, they're a very small part of what the country has to offer the punter. If the legislation hits Germany, they may go because they depend on advertising. Like France, the rest will continue relatively untroubled.
Yep, it's going to be difficult to hunt pussy when travelling in Europe. It won't be served up on a plate. You'll have to learn something about the country.
Other continents? You wouldn't catch me anywhere near the Arab world. Don't like them, don't trust them. Thailand? Half way round the world for third world peasants when you can get the cream in London or Paris? South America sounds more like it. At this rate I may end up living there. Probably Brasil, Bahia. I prefer the culture over Colombian although Cartagena's tempting. I am rather pissed this year's Moscow jaunt been put on the back burner. Bloody Putin. Never been there but I fancy it's a city I could operate in. Lots of contacts there. Top class girls at £100/2 hours! Can't see the Woke triumphing in Russia. Not against tanks.
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06-30-22 03:56 #303
Posts: 2953Great and accurate post, PayForIt.
There is too much ISG posted focus on legality and belief in completely unrealistic law enforcement activities.
The selling of time and companionship trumps most simplistic laws.
There is one provision in Spain's proposed law that is of concern, which is the imposition of fines on landlords.
Hopefully the landlord lobby will get it removed on the grounds that no one wants a system where landlords must spy on tenants.
A sex worker has to have a place to work. That is a stranglehold in the system if it is removed.
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06-30-22 00:32 #302
Posts: 1854Originally Posted by AndalusExpat [View Original Post]
This is all prospective vote-winning, woke-driven, rights-led propaganda. It will be a small miracle if it ever comes to fruition as they envisage it.
But it almost doesn't matter at all anyway. Barcelona is about 1000 kms to Zurich. It's 13 hours drive to Stuttgart.
Switzerland, Austria, and Germany have thriving legal prostitution, well-managed, controlled and safe. Having spoken to several of the working girls in clubs in Malaga, Fuengirola, LOS Barrios and Madrid, it is clear that in the highly unlikely event that in say 2-3 years time (1) Spain did somehow get these laws through (big IF) and (2) IF they are looking like those laws will actually get enforced at all, and (3)IF this affects the big clubs, and (4) IF it impacts their income, THEN they will move down the road to where they can do this legally, or they'll just take their services underground (worse). That’s a LOT of IFs to get past!
The German FKK threads were dominated in 2016 and 2017 by the "new law". It made BBBJ illegal. Allegedly 5000 fines for both girl and customer if "caught". Stories that police were going to enter the clubs undercover as clients, get into the room, get a boner and when the girl was about to provide the BBBJ she would be arrested. Yeah sure. As if! 😂
So imagine the scene: our PC Horny gets his kit off, has some stunner in the room, he's had 2 beers, she is pretty / sexy, he's had some touching / foreplay, he's got his cock ready. He can either say "Whoa. Stop right there in the name of the law! Do NOT please my cock. You're under arrest instead". OR he can enjoy his BBBJ and skip the arrest. Tell his colleagues it was never offered. Shame. Maybe arrange to repeat a few nights later. More likely. 😉
The ONLY impact that new law had has been to give the girls an opportunity in German FKKs to increase prices with the "you know I shouldn't be doing this yeah? I need a tip”
So in some parts of Germany BBBJ is now an extra cost. But it is available everywhere. The law was a waste of paper - but no doubt won votes!
I will be astonished if we ever read of a single club closing, single arrest, single fine, or anybody going to jail unless there is a genuine pimping / abuse scenario in which case good job.
The big clubs don't need to abuse the girls. They have a very regular intake who are far from forced and many of them stay for 10+ years, and come back after having kids etc.
So the scare-mongering of many "it's all going to change in Spain"? It’s not. Read between the lines, see the bigger picture of spinning old favourites to win votes. Highly unlikely to change a jot, but even if it does, it's the neighbouring countries in Europe that will benefit, and alas Spain in any event is falling behind in terms of its offerings. Madrid and Malaga, and the climate, provide a cocktail of attraction to the sex traveller, but these options are way behind what is on offer around the world and even in Europe.
A day and night in an FKK hosting 100+ naked girls is never going to be matched by any attendance at a club in Spain. And here speaks someone who likes them!
The thermas in SA (not been but want to), the soapies in Thailand, BBBJ bars, and the fabulous walking streets in Asia all provide so many more options and entertainment on a different level for the sex traveller. Watch a band, watch a show, see a striptease, sex games, sexual gymnastics! And prices a quarter of those in Spain.
So for the little Spanish guys who go into the small clubs you mention - I hope for their sakes you are right and there is no enforcement. Let them go get their one beer a night and watch a bit of booty. Good on them.
As for the larger clubs, I very much doubt you'll ever see any change. But if it happens, for the reasons given, the sex tourist will just head off elsewhere. And they are doing that quite a lot anyway.
One of the excellent contributors to many threads is longstanding member is The Cane He for one (and he is not alone) has abandoned all mongering trips to Spain due to over-pricing / poor value for money. I have personally spent less time in Spanish clubs in 2022 than in any of the past 20 years including the pandemic.
Other locations in the world have so much more to offer. So if there is some silly law enacted which gives even a 1% risk to a punter, I am pretty sure that it will just result in those punters spending their cash elsewhere where options are better, cheaper and more plentiful. Of course some would say that's great. Job done - it’s what the legislation is trying to achieve. But it won’t anyway as it will push prostitution underground where trafficking is rife and people running unlicensed establishments do exploit girls.
Spain need not worry of course. The Brits will still come, invade their mini-Blackpools - Fuengirola, Torremolinos, Benalmadinas etc with their beer swilling, chip butty eating loud antics and burned bodies!
If the little Spanish guy can see two fat chicas at his local doing their twerk he’s ok.
But will serious sex punters travel to Spain for low options and any risk at all?
Nope and it's already becoming limited in its appeal before legislation.
The Spanish economy is already a disaster. Removing even a half percentage of its annual intake from the bigger clubs in Madrid, Barca, and Malaga might not seem like much - but those who frequent them are pumping money into the economy on hotels/travel/restaurants and more. That would all be lost too. The Spanish should be careful what they wish (and vote) for.
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06-28-22 15:16 #301
Posts: 526Spanish clubs
Since they get banged on about so much on here, seems worth talking about what they actually are & how legislation might affect them. Pretty well any town you go to in Spain will have one or more. They're the latest incarnation of the Spanish brothel's been part of the culture for centuries. They just stuck some neon on the roof & called it a "club". Since there's over 8000 municipalities in Spain you can reckon the total of clubs would be a significant proportion of that number. If you spend much time travelling out in the campo you get to learn where you find them. One I regularly frequented was at Durcal. A one horse town on the old road between Granada & the coast. Back of a commercial vehicle repairers, you needed to know where it was. Bar, pool table, dartboard, music. Usually 4-5 girls. Bloke ran the place would usually have my dry anis & ice, no water, on the bar before I could reach it. 4 euros. Clientele was the local blokes who'd chat with the girls, play pool or darts. There was a card school some nights. I can report the Spanish are generally optimists when it comes to poker. It's like a social club. The girls make there money from the drinks & tips as much as selling sex. Although they're always willing & hopeful. It's also the only place open at those sort of hours, which is why I used it. There was another one about 5 km along the road, bit more visible but not as good. And another near the Lanjaron turnoff from the carretera. But that burned down before I lived in the area. Aranda del Duero up in Burgos province has three. Two very small ones in the centre & a bigger on the outskirts. Nearest one to Almanara in Valencia is tucked down a side road by a bridge. You can see the neon for miles but finding what's under it is another matter. Coin has two. I challenge you to find the second one. All the cities have their small clubs if you can find them.
The bigger clubs you're more familiar with are the same thing writ large. Malaga City used to have three, now down to two. Granada a couple I know of. One by the Armilla retail park, other's on the western fringe. The other cities have similar. And there's the ones along the resort coasts cater primarily to holidaymakers both Spanish & foreign. For the Spanish they serve the same purpose as the smaller ones. They don't go to them just for sex. For that they go elsewhere. It's the hospitality side attracts.
So what happens to all this post legislation? My guess is the small ones will take the neon off the roof & carry on as ever. The rural Spanish are deeply conservative with a small "see". Particularly the working class. They've lived with the contradictions between the Catholic Church & the local brothel quite long enough. The police, the blokes use the clubs, the local politicians are all the same people tied together by friendships & family connections. There's going to absolutely no appetite for enforcement. The big ones I'm not so sure of. They're too high profile to be ignored by the sharp elbowed social reformers. Maybe they could adapt & survive. But the people who own them haven't had a new idea for decades. They're basically the same people who own the small ones in better suits. As for their supposed "voice" & influence, it doesn't exist. It's the small clubs have have the influence. That part of the industry dwarfs them.
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06-27-22 19:04 #300
Posts: 154When are these sex worker hating laws likely to be passed and enforced?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...on-2022-06-07/
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06-22-22 19:36 #299
Posts: 52626 billion euros
Put that together with the 80% of the 350,000 working prostitutes are claimed to be foreign who would be sending home remittances to their country origin & it would add up to a significant figure in Spain's balance of trade. Now that really would be a reason to make prostitution illegal.
It's just a symptom of the entire debate around the subject. It's being conducted by people who are utterly clueless about the industry & how it functions. They aren't interested in finding out because to do so would conflict with the prior assumptions they base their campaign on.
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06-22-22 13:13 #298
Posts: 526Originally Posted by PayForIt [View Original Post]
So why the wide discrepancy? Depends on what you're counting & why. All the revenue of the industry comes from the earnings of the girls. They are the ones paying for the apartments, villas & their rooms in the clubs, the advertising. The hospitality side of the business. Bars in clubs, for instance. Are just part of the hospitality industry. Although the kickbacks the girls get on girl-drinks does contribute to their earnings. But the bar drinks for the customers are fungible. It's a drink that would otherwise have been bought in a different sort of bar. Best guess is the 26 billion figure has been generated by a great deal of double, triple & quadruple counting of the same money by people who have little understanding how the industry functions. To quote "It's very hard to get someone to understand something who's job depends on them not understanding. " The Havocscope report also suggest prostitution in Spain generates one seventh of the world's revenue in the occupation. Out of a country with a population of 47 million? Sex-tourism only really benefits a few resort coasts & the capital. The vast majority of the clients are Spanish. The entirety of Spain's tourist industry only generated 77 billion in '16 & we've just gone through two years of that being virtually non-existent.
It's nonsense on stilts. Surprised you quoted it.
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06-19-22 23:26 #297
Posts: 1854Originally Posted by DeltaIndigo [View Original Post]
For sure Germany will reap the benefits. But truth is, depending on venues, the whole tourist mongering experience is already so much better in Germany. Last week in Aca Gold NRW. With some really pretty girls who would rant as 8's at least in Scandalos, the opening price is 40 euros for 30 minutes. Cheap entry, good food, sunbathing with the naked ladies, then rooms for 40 euros! Of course at the other end the sharks in Sharks are seeking 200/ hour. Outrageous you say? Yep but that's cheap in Scandalos and it doesn't exist in Vive Madrid! I like mongering in Spain but I really would not be all that bothered if it did end. There are SO many good options in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, that it will just change the itinerary to mongering for a week in those lovely countries and off to Spain for a few days rest. But if it goes in Spain (highly unlikely) it should be across the board. But I very much doubt any of us will see a total ban in our lifetimes.