General Info

[Andalus Expat]

Not correct. Switzerland and Austria also have it. It's a great experience.

Oh for sure. The first time I went (Artemis in Berlin 2013) I had a boner for the first hour and a half and when the girls ask their normal "first time here" question, trying to deny it was impossible. Three weeks ago I spent a glorious afternoon at FKK Oase, on a sun lounger, having just enjoyed a BBQ, surrounded by about 60 totally naked ladies though quite a few kept their hooker shoes on whilst walking around the pool. Some just lying naked on sunbeds, several naked in the pool, some naked playing table tennis, volleyball and soccer. I had a very nice suntan oil massage from two of the girls who ensured that not an inch of my body was going to get sunburned! So back to your question. Did I find it all sexually stimulating? Erm, let me think for a millisecond. Yep. Massively! I get your point. After a week of FKKs and naked bodies it can be a bit boring. You want the allure. But then you just ensure you go to an FKK on dessous day when they are all in lingerie. Or (not for me) but you can go to FKK Oceans in Dusseldorf which has become a nightclub. Guys all in own clothes not towels etc.

Not entirely sure what you might have thought a response would be. How about "if the cap fits" Only joking!

You certainly make fine attempt to sell FKKs, PayForIt. But you're trying to flog something that hardly anybody wants. Or they wouldn't be mainly in German speaking countries. (Switzerland may be interesting regarding attempts to curb prostitution. This may be a canton matter, not federal. There may not be a uniform result) It's not something you can market & sell down in Spain or someone would be doing so. (Same applies to other countries) You can't sell parties in Spain either, although they're big in the UK. Not the demand. Despite your attempts to make it so, this whole legislation issue is not about personal preferences. What will follow, if it succeeds, will be in accordance with what the majority desire. Not the minority.

It's not hard to foresee a situation where post legislation enforcement would come down hard on the less popular but high profile activities. Produce the required column inches in the media with the message "Something is being done". The unpopular will be sacrificed for the popular.

[The Cane]

Not entirely sure what you might have thought a response would be. How about "if the cap fits" Only joking!

LOLOLOL! Hahaha!

[PayForIt]

I can't think of anywhere in Europe would want the FKK experience. Presumably why only Germany has it.

Not correct. Switzerland and Austria also have it. It's a great experience.

A room full of naked women strutting their stuff? It's about as subtle as a butchers shop. Do you really find that sexually stimulating? I don't know how you'd cope with a real FKK. Keep your towel in your lap I suppose.

Oh for sure. The first time I went (Artemis in Berlin 2013) I had a boner for the first hour and a half and when the girls ask their normal "first time here" question, trying to deny it was impossible. Three weeks ago I spent a glorious afternoon at FKK Oase, on a sun lounger, having just enjoyed a BBQ, surrounded by about 60 totally naked ladies though quite a few kept their hooker shoes on whilst walking around the pool. Some just lying naked on sunbeds, several naked in the pool, some naked playing table tennis, volleyball and soccer. I had a very nice suntan oil massage from two of the girls who ensured that not an inch of my body was going to get sunburned! So back to your question. Did I find it all sexually stimulating? Erm, let me think for a millisecond. Yep. Massively! I get your point. After a week of FKKs and naked bodies it can be a bit boring. You want the allure. But then you just ensure you go to an FKK on dessous day when they are all in lingerie. Or (not for me) but you can go to FKK Oceans in Dusseldorf which has become a nightclub. Guys all in own clothes not towels etc.

I regularly get told to fuck off.

Not entirely sure what you might have thought a response would be. How about "if the cap fits" 😂 Only joking!

[Andalus Expat]

I am a keen golfer (5.1 handicap) so Costa del Golf beats France any day. I also prefer the language. Marbella was incredibly fashionable in the 70's but I was very young so didn't ever visit in its real heyday. I loved Banus in the 90's before it got tacky and I worked there for 5 years when A list very much visited there. There is still a lot of money in and around CDS particularly in Zagaleta.

You should venture around the UK. Many parts of it are stunning (including Scotland, the Lakes, Cotswolds, Cornwall (which has better beaches than anywhere on the CDS) and part of Wales. Germany has some equally beautiful places. Bavaria is stunning, Hamburg is a lovely city (rich) ignoring the tacky Reep. Not only Germans want FKKs. Indeed most Germans complain about the amount of tourists in FKKs and how much they are willing to pay for girls which ups prices for locals. You should travel a bit more!

I share Churchill's opinion of golf. Puerto Banus was great in the 80's. Before it tried to turn itself into an imitation Juan-Les-Pins. I tried living in the apartment there for a few weeks around 2012. Then went & found somewhere real. You can't get round it. Juan-Les-Pins you can be dining in a restaurant with the Secretary of State of the USA & a top movie actress. PB it'll be a footballer & a Big Brother bint. (Done both) Marbella fashionable? Who with? The Russian mafia or UK used car salesmen? I suppose I live here because I've got to live somewhere. I've been long past needing to work for years. Anything I choose to do can be done on-line, dodgy Spanish internet permitting. And the putas are enormous fun when you get to know them. Best in Europe. But the cuisine's a joke. Mostly we eat at S. American places frequented by S. Americans. They don't boil vegetables to submission.

I can't think of anywhere in Europe would want the FKK experience. Presumably why only Germany has it. A room full of naked women strutting their stuff? It's about as subtle as a butchers shop. Do you really find that sexually stimulating? I don't know how you'd cope with a real FKK. Keep your towel in your lap I suppose. Most of Europe (The World?) want erotic, not in your face. But as I implied, Germans are odd. I was sitting in a bar in Frankfurt one night, killing time for a train connection. Ordinary bar. Few people & couples sitting around drinking. Screen unrolled itself from the ceiling & we were given 10 minutes of hardcore porn. Nobody even glanced at it. The why of it completely escaped me. But Germans. Baveria was OK. But Catholic Germany. Different culture. And most of my dealings were with the US military furthering the region's wine exports.

The chances of me ever returning to the UK are less than zero. Done that. Got the T-shirt.

"You should travel a bit more!" Every country in mainland Europe bar Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Greece & some of the new Balkans. All by road. Only way to really see anywhere. An Algerian village in the Sahara for several months via the ferry & Morocco. Sierra Leone (a shithole). NYC & NJ but not as a tourist. Rest of the USA would require a lifetime. But you're right. I should travel more. I regularly get told to fuck off.

[PayForIt]

Why have a house here & not the Cote de Azur? A list people rather than see list. It's Spain. Hasn't been fashionable since 1920's. Possibly the same reason I do. And I'm from Central London. Most of the UK's as foreign to me as here.

Germany's the one country in Europe I prefer to avoid. Despite living a couple hours drive from it for several years. Pass through, don't stop. It was far better when there were two of them. That FKKs exist is part of the reason. Only Germans could want them.

I am a keen golfer (5.1 handicap) so Costa del Golf beats France any day. I also prefer the language. Marbella was incredibly fashionable in the 70's but I was very young so didn't ever visit in its real heyday. I loved Banus in the 90's before it got tacky and I worked there for 5 years when A list very much visited there. There is still a lot of money in and around CDS particularly in Zagaleta.

You should venture around the UK. Many parts of it are stunning (including Scotland, the Lakes, Cotswolds, Cornwall (which has better beaches than anywhere on the CDS) and part of Wales. Germany has some equally beautiful places. Bavaria is stunning, Hamburg is a lovely city (rich) ignoring the tacky Reep. Not only Germans want FKKs. Indeed most Germans complain about the amount of tourists in FKKs and how much they are willing to pay for girls which ups prices for locals. You should travel a bit more!

[Andalus Expat]

Oh and. I don't like Blackpool and I don't like Blackpool in the Sun!

Why have a house here & not the Cote de Azur? (To avoid post submission editing into nonsense) A list people rather than see list. It's Spain. Hasn't been fashionable since 1920's. Possibly the same reason I do. Damned expensive (but also too close to my ex-wife! I have almost nothing to do with the Brit ex-pat community or its tourists. Avoid them like the plague. I left the UK so I could live alongside foreigners of my choice. And I'm from Central London. Most of the UK's as foreign to me as here. I do know a lot of punters here though. Spanish, the range of ex-pats & regular visitors. And from the rich to the skint.

Germany's the one country in Europe I prefer to avoid. Despite living a couple hours drive from it for several years. Pass through, don't stop. It was far better when there were two of them. That FKKs exist is part of the reason. Only Germans could want them.

[PayForIt]

Foreigners who live here or have connections with the country, second homes here, are much more important. More money gets put around wider. But few of us even use the clubs. Do you actually know anything about Germany apart from your FKK's?
Yep, it's going to be difficult to hunt pussy when travelling in Europe. It won't be served up on a plate. You'll have to learn something about the country.

Well as a home owner in Spain I am delighted you consider me important.

I know a host of home owners in Spain who use the big clubs. I meet a lot of them in them!

I know quite a lot about Germany irrespective of FKKs and have a business there.

It won't be difficult to hunt pussy in Europe at all. As you rightly said, guys want to fuck and girls want the buck. It is easy.

I know plenty about Spain, Germany, Thailand, Dubai, the UK.

Oh and. I don't like Blackpool and I don't like Blackpool in the Sun!

[Andalus Expat]

All very interesting but (1) the big club owners are not the slightest bit worried about the proposed legislation. (2) it will be amended, re-amended and re-re-amended for so long the issue will likely die off before it is ever enacted (3) even if a semblance of it survives (which will probably if at all be reduced to increasing punishment for pimping) - a good thing; what's left STILL has to be voted on all over again. At which point unless it would have been so drastically diluted to be meaningless that it would be likely to be voted against to avoid it going to the Senate - where it would still need to be approved!!!

This is all prospective vote-winning, woke-driven, rights-led propaganda. It will be a small miracle if it ever comes to fruition as they envisage it.

But it almost doesn't matter at all anyway. Barcelona is about 1000 kms to Zurich. It's 13 hours drive to Stuttgart.
Switzerland, Austria, and Germany have thriving legal prostitution, well-managed, controlled and safe. Having spoken to several of the working girls in clubs in Malaga, Fuengirola, LOS Barrios and Madrid, it is clear that in the highly unlikely event that in say 2-3 years time (1) Spain did somehow get these laws through (big IF) and (2) IF they are looking like those laws will actually get enforced at all, and (3)IF this affects the big clubs, and (4) IF it impacts their income, THEN they will move down the road to where they can do this legally, or they'll just take their services underground (worse). Thats a LOT of IFs to get past!

I think you're very wrong about the politics, PayForIt. Every country in Europe has a vociferous feminist lobby opposed to prostitution. I was surprised France got its legislation. France is far more socially liberal than Spain. But it happened. This is the culmination of Gramci's "Long March through the institutions". The institutions of Europe have been hollowed out by a particular flavour of activist left wing politics & the institutions aren't subject to democratic control. The politicians dance to their tunes. It's never really about the issues. It's always about control. Europe now has a totally unrealistic & unworkable decarbonisation agenda. It's causing enormous economic damage. Nobody actually voted for this. Or if they did, they didn't know what they voted for. But we have it. Look at the UK & transgender rights. Something that benefits 0. 01% of the population but lays the onus of respecting them on 99.99. You think there was any popular demand for this from Dave & Lynn down the pub? Dave still cracks a hilarious line in queer jokes & Lynn's concerned about her kids & paedos. The latest upgrade came to Spain in April. You reckon José & Maria en la calle thought this a pressing need? Outlawing the frequenting of prostitutes will role across Europe with each country submitting being the excuse for the next. All because "they care so deeply about the plight of the vulnerable girls being forced into this vile occupation". No doubt it'll in due course be incorporated into European law so they can put a gun to the head of dissenting countries. See Poland & Hungary on other matters now. And Germany's ripe for it. They've already shut down their nuclear plants prostrating themselves to the Greens.

Where I do thoroughly agree with you is it'll make little practical difference to the girls & their clients. The guys want a fuck & the girls want the money. Something that's been going on since Ug was exchanging knapped flints for beaver is not going to disappear just because of shouty women with bad hair not approving. Drugs have been illegal for long enough. I could source you as much primo charlie as you could carry with one quick phone call. It's easier now than it's ever been. I've punted with no trouble in France since their legislation. Swedes I know seem to manage in Sweden.

Sex tourism on Spain? I don't think the Spanish give a toss. They'd rather you weren't here. The only people who really benefit are a few clubs because you don't know anything else. Foreigners who live here or have connections with the country, second homes here, are much more important. More money gets put around wider. But few of us even use the clubs. Sorry but 15 sweaty oiks in Estark for a beer & a half hour does not an economy make. The people you are deriding in the resort "Blackpools" are Spain's bread & butter. Volume beats quality every time. But they're here for sun sand & sangria, rarely sex. Do you actually know anything about Germany apart from your FKK's? Again, they're a very small part of what the country has to offer the punter. If the legislation hits Germany, they may go because they depend on advertising. Like France, the rest will continue relatively untroubled.

Yep, it's going to be difficult to hunt pussy when travelling in Europe. It won't be served up on a plate. You'll have to learn something about the country.

Other continents? You wouldn't catch me anywhere near the Arab world. Don't like them, don't trust them. Thailand? Half way round the world for third world peasants when you can get the cream in London or Paris? South America sounds more like it. At this rate I may end up living there. Probably Brasil, Bahia. I prefer the culture over Colombian although Cartagena's tempting. I am rather pissed this year's Moscow jaunt been put on the back burner. Bloody Putin. Never been there but I fancy it's a city I could operate in. Lots of contacts there. Top class girls at £100/2 hours! Can't see the Woke triumphing in Russia. Not against tanks.

[Mongerer88]

Great and accurate post, PayForIt.

There is too much ISG posted focus on legality and belief in completely unrealistic law enforcement activities.

The selling of time and companionship trumps most simplistic laws.

There is one provision in Spain's proposed law that is of concern, which is the imposition of fines on landlords.

Hopefully the landlord lobby will get it removed on the grounds that no one wants a system where landlords must spy on tenants.

A sex worker has to have a place to work. That is a stranglehold in the system if it is removed.

[PayForIt]

Since they get banged on about so much on here, seems worth talking about what they actually are & how legislation might affect them. The big ones I'm not so sure of. They're too high profile to be ignored by the sharp elbowed social reformers. Maybe they could adapt & survive. But the people who own them haven't had a new idea for decades. They're basically the same people who own the small ones in better suits. As for their supposed "voice" & influence, it doesn't exist. It's the small clubs have have the influence. That part of the industry dwarfs them.

All very interesting but (1) the big club owners are not the slightest bit worried about the proposed legislation. (2) it will be amended, re-amended and re-re-amended for so long the issue will likely die off before it is ever enacted (3) even if a semblance of it survives (which will probably if at all be reduced to increasing punishment for pimping) - a good thing; what's left STILL has to be voted on all over again. At which point unless it would have been so drastically diluted to be meaningless that it would be likely to be voted against to avoid it going to the Senate - where it would still need to be approved!!!

This is all prospective vote-winning, woke-driven, rights-led propaganda. It will be a small miracle if it ever comes to fruition as they envisage it.

But it almost doesn't matter at all anyway. Barcelona is about 1000 kms to Zurich. It's 13 hours drive to Stuttgart.
Switzerland, Austria, and Germany have thriving legal prostitution, well-managed, controlled and safe. Having spoken to several of the working girls in clubs in Malaga, Fuengirola, LOS Barrios and Madrid, it is clear that in the highly unlikely event that in say 2-3 years time (1) Spain did somehow get these laws through (big IF) and (2) IF they are looking like those laws will actually get enforced at all, and (3)IF this affects the big clubs, and (4) IF it impacts their income, THEN they will move down the road to where they can do this legally, or they'll just take their services underground (worse). That’s a LOT of IFs to get past!

The German FKK threads were dominated in 2016 and 2017 by the "new law". It made BBBJ illegal. Allegedly 5000 fines for both girl and customer if "caught". Stories that police were going to enter the clubs undercover as clients, get into the room, get a boner and when the girl was about to provide the BBBJ she would be arrested. Yeah sure. As if! 😂
So imagine the scene: our PC Horny gets his kit off, has some stunner in the room, he's had 2 beers, she is pretty / sexy, he's had some touching / foreplay, he's got his cock ready. He can either say "Whoa. Stop right there in the name of the law! Do NOT please my cock. You're under arrest instead". OR he can enjoy his BBBJ and skip the arrest. Tell his colleagues it was never offered. Shame. Maybe arrange to repeat a few nights later. More likely. 😉

The ONLY impact that new law had has been to give the girls an opportunity in German FKKs to increase prices with the "you know I shouldn't be doing this yeah? I need a tip”
So in some parts of Germany BBBJ is now an extra cost. But it is available everywhere. The law was a waste of paper - but no doubt won votes!

I will be astonished if we ever read of a single club closing, single arrest, single fine, or anybody going to jail unless there is a genuine pimping / abuse scenario in which case good job.
The big clubs don't need to abuse the girls. They have a very regular intake who are far from forced and many of them stay for 10+ years, and come back after having kids etc.

So the scare-mongering of many "it's all going to change in Spain"? It’s not. Read between the lines, see the bigger picture of spinning old favourites to win votes. Highly unlikely to change a jot, but even if it does, it's the neighbouring countries in Europe that will benefit, and alas Spain in any event is falling behind in terms of its offerings. Madrid and Malaga, and the climate, provide a cocktail of attraction to the sex traveller, but these options are way behind what is on offer around the world and even in Europe.

A day and night in an FKK hosting 100+ naked girls is never going to be matched by any attendance at a club in Spain. And here speaks someone who likes them!

The thermas in SA (not been but want to), the soapies in Thailand, BBBJ bars, and the fabulous walking streets in Asia all provide so many more options and entertainment on a different level for the sex traveller. Watch a band, watch a show, see a striptease, sex games, sexual gymnastics! And prices a quarter of those in Spain.

So for the little Spanish guys who go into the small clubs you mention - I hope for their sakes you are right and there is no enforcement. Let them go get their one beer a night and watch a bit of booty. Good on them.

As for the larger clubs, I very much doubt you'll ever see any change. But if it happens, for the reasons given, the sex tourist will just head off elsewhere. And they are doing that quite a lot anyway.

One of the excellent contributors to many threads is longstanding member is The Cane He for one (and he is not alone) has abandoned all mongering trips to Spain due to over-pricing / poor value for money. I have personally spent less time in Spanish clubs in 2022 than in any of the past 20 years including the pandemic.

Other locations in the world have so much more to offer. So if there is some silly law enacted which gives even a 1% risk to a punter, I am pretty sure that it will just result in those punters spending their cash elsewhere where options are better, cheaper and more plentiful. Of course some would say that's great. Job done - it’s what the legislation is trying to achieve. But it won’t anyway as it will push prostitution underground where trafficking is rife and people running unlicensed establishments do exploit girls.

Spain need not worry of course. The Brits will still come, invade their mini-Blackpools - Fuengirola, Torremolinos, Benalmadinas etc with their beer swilling, chip butty eating loud antics and burned bodies!
If the little Spanish guy can see two fat chicas at his local doing their twerk he’s ok.
But will serious sex punters travel to Spain for low options and any risk at all?
Nope and it's already becoming limited in its appeal before legislation.

The Spanish economy is already a disaster. Removing even a half percentage of its annual intake from the bigger clubs in Madrid, Barca, and Malaga might not seem like much - but those who frequent them are pumping money into the economy on hotels/travel/restaurants and more. That would all be lost too. The Spanish should be careful what they wish (and vote) for.

[Andalus Expat]

Since they get banged on about so much on here, seems worth talking about what they actually are & how legislation might affect them. Pretty well any town you go to in Spain will have one or more. They're the latest incarnation of the Spanish brothel's been part of the culture for centuries. They just stuck some neon on the roof & called it a "club". Since there's over 8000 municipalities in Spain you can reckon the total of clubs would be a significant proportion of that number. If you spend much time travelling out in the campo you get to learn where you find them. One I regularly frequented was at Durcal. A one horse town on the old road between Granada & the coast. Back of a commercial vehicle repairers, you needed to know where it was. Bar, pool table, dartboard, music. Usually 4-5 girls. Bloke ran the place would usually have my dry anis & ice, no water, on the bar before I could reach it. 4 euros. Clientele was the local blokes who'd chat with the girls, play pool or darts. There was a card school some nights. I can report the Spanish are generally optimists when it comes to poker. It's like a social club. The girls make there money from the drinks & tips as much as selling sex. Although they're always willing & hopeful. It's also the only place open at those sort of hours, which is why I used it. There was another one about 5 km along the road, bit more visible but not as good. And another near the Lanjaron turnoff from the carretera. But that burned down before I lived in the area. Aranda del Duero up in Burgos province has three. Two very small ones in the centre & a bigger on the outskirts. Nearest one to Almanara in Valencia is tucked down a side road by a bridge. You can see the neon for miles but finding what's under it is another matter. Coin has two. I challenge you to find the second one. All the cities have their small clubs if you can find them.

The bigger clubs you're more familiar with are the same thing writ large. Malaga City used to have three, now down to two. Granada a couple I know of. One by the Armilla retail park, other's on the western fringe. The other cities have similar. And there's the ones along the resort coasts cater primarily to holidaymakers both Spanish & foreign. For the Spanish they serve the same purpose as the smaller ones. They don't go to them just for sex. For that they go elsewhere. It's the hospitality side attracts.

So what happens to all this post legislation? My guess is the small ones will take the neon off the roof & carry on as ever. The rural Spanish are deeply conservative with a small "see". Particularly the working class. They've lived with the contradictions between the Catholic Church & the local brothel quite long enough. The police, the blokes use the clubs, the local politicians are all the same people tied together by friendships & family connections. There's going to absolutely no appetite for enforcement. The big ones I'm not so sure of. They're too high profile to be ignored by the sharp elbowed social reformers. Maybe they could adapt & survive. But the people who own them haven't had a new idea for decades. They're basically the same people who own the small ones in better suits. As for their supposed "voice" & influence, it doesn't exist. It's the small clubs have have the influence. That part of the industry dwarfs them.

[Wild Man]

When are these sex worker hating laws likely to be passed and enforced?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...on-2022-06-07/

[Andalus Expat]

Put that together with the 80% of the 350,000 working prostitutes are claimed to be foreign who would be sending home remittances to their country origin & it would add up to a significant figure in Spain's balance of trade. Now that really would be a reason to make prostitution illegal.

It's just a symptom of the entire debate around the subject. It's being conducted by people who are utterly clueless about the industry & how it functions. They aren't interested in finding out because to do so would conflict with the prior assumptions they base their campaign on.

[Andalus Expat]

I cannot disagree with almost anything here. A good assessment. Spain is definitely a better holiday destination for the reasons you set out. The amount of money generated by prostitution in Spain cannot be ignored - $26 BILLION per year. The already dire Spanish economy would be badly hit. I just don't think this is more than political vote winning. With everyone knowing it just won't happen. I am still to hear even a hint of concern amongst the workers, bar owners, club owners. None of them believe it will happen.

For sure Germany will reap the benefits. But truth is, depending on venues, the whole tourist mongering experience is already so much better in Germany. Last week in Aca Gold NRW. With some really pretty girls who would rant as 8's at least in Scandalos, the opening price is 40 euros for 30 minutes. Cheap entry, good food, sunbathing with the naked ladies, then rooms for 40 euros! Of course at the other end the sharks in Sharks are seeking 200/ hour. Outrageous you say? Yep but that's cheap in Scandalos and it doesn't exist in Vive Madrid! I like mongering in Spain but I really would not be all that bothered if it did end. There are SO many good options in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, that it will just change the itinerary to mongering for a week in those lovely countries and off to Spain for a few days rest. But if it goes in Spain (highly unlikely) it should be across the board. But I very much doubt any of us will see a total ban in our lifetimes.

The 26 billion figure you no doubt got from the Guardian who've been waving it about with some vigour. It comes from a report by https://www.havocscope.com/prostitut...ue-by-country/ who's name suggests has a particular agenda. It's methodology is buried in a book which I've no intention of wasting $2. 99 on. It implies the average revenue generated by each individual prostitute is 74 k euros a year. I'd very much like to meet her. UN report from 2016 estimated 3. 7 billion. That based on 300,000 women produces average earnings of 12.3 k which sounds a lot more realistic. Most prostitutes actually earn very little & use it to supplement other income. The 3. 7 figure may have risen a bit over the past 6 years, but not by much. '16 was about when general prices peaked & they haven't risen since. Yes. I know. You unfortunate patrons of the big puti clubs might have a different impression. But those clubs are a trivial part of the industry.

So why the wide discrepancy? Depends on what you're counting & why. All the revenue of the industry comes from the earnings of the girls. They are the ones paying for the apartments, villas & their rooms in the clubs, the advertising. The hospitality side of the business. Bars in clubs, for instance. Are just part of the hospitality industry. Although the kickbacks the girls get on girl-drinks does contribute to their earnings. But the bar drinks for the customers are fungible. It's a drink that would otherwise have been bought in a different sort of bar. Best guess is the 26 billion figure has been generated by a great deal of double, triple & quadruple counting of the same money by people who have little understanding how the industry functions. To quote "It's very hard to get someone to understand something who's job depends on them not understanding. " The Havocscope report also suggest prostitution in Spain generates one seventh of the world's revenue in the occupation. Out of a country with a population of 47 million? Sex-tourism only really benefits a few resort coasts & the capital. The vast majority of the clients are Spanish. The entirety of Spain's tourist industry only generated 77 billion in '16 & we've just gone through two years of that being virtually non-existent.

It's nonsense on stilts. Surprised you quoted it.

[PayForIt]

I think it is very hard to oppose laws like this, ie anti prostitution law, without a lot of courage in the current climate and I really thought the PP would give in and this law would eventually pass. Like Pay For It I think Germany will be the beneficiary of this, a provider exodus to Germany. Unlike him I think that things will change if this law is passed and the clubs won't be able to operate like before. Many people thought that the 2017 prostitution law in Germany would not change anything, I thought it would affect pricing at the least, since the girls would use it as a pretext to charge more and I think I was more right on this.

However reading the Spanish forum, it might be that the PP letting this law advance was a tactic on their part to sow discord between the Socialists and Podemos who are far from united on this issue, right before and election year. The PP might eventually not support this law but wants the debate to go ahead in order to low discord on the left.

If the Popular Party do well in Andalusia, then the Popular Party will assume that they will win the next general election, then their worry is Vox and not the Socialists, so they then no longer have an incentive to support this law. I hope this law does not pass since although Spain is not great value for money as others have noted, it is great that we have another large scale alternative to Germany in Europe and I hope it remains that way.

I also love the food, culture and architecture in Spain. It is a better holiday destination than Germany overall.

I cannot disagree with almost anything here. A good assessment. Spain is definitely a better holiday destination for the reasons you set out. The amount of money generated by prostitution in Spain cannot be ignored - $26 BILLION per year. The already dire Spanish economy would be badly hit. I just don't think this is more than political vote winning. With everyone knowing it just won't happen. I am still to hear even a hint of concern amongst the workers, bar owners, club owners. None of them believe it will happen.

For sure Germany will reap the benefits. But truth is, depending on venues, the whole tourist mongering experience is already so much better in Germany. Last week in Aca Gold NRW. With some really pretty girls who would rant as 8's at least in Scandalos, the opening price is 40 euros for 30 minutes. Cheap entry, good food, sunbathing with the naked ladies, then rooms for 40 euros! Of course at the other end the sharks in Sharks are seeking 200/ hour. Outrageous you say? Yep but that's cheap in Scandalos and it doesn't exist in Vive Madrid! I like mongering in Spain but I really would not be all that bothered if it did end. There are SO many good options in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, that it will just change the itinerary to mongering for a week in those lovely countries and off to Spain for a few days rest. But if it goes in Spain (highly unlikely) it should be across the board. But I very much doubt any of us will see a total ban in our lifetimes.