Barcelona

[GandJim]

As for sex workers not being able to find their way to other countries on their own...I don't think you're giving these women enough credit.

My "propaganda" is the same propaganda being pumped out by sex worker organisations all over the world. You can look up websites of sex worker unions and groups in developing countries if you think I'm just talking from a privileged white chick perspective.

Dear Rubber,

I'm afraid you haven't read my posts before making these recommendations, as well as what this debate is about.

I have no doubt that you have much more experience than myself for prostitution in Australia, but this thread is about Barcelona and the question raised by members relates mainly to Chinese girls working in pisos in Barcelona.

So my questions to you are:

- Have you worked in a piso in Barcelona?
- If yes, have you worked in a Chinese piso in Barcelona and discussed with a Chinese girl working there in her own language?

If replies to these questions are “yes”, I will be more than happy to have a discussion with you. If not, I must say that this forum is about sharing factual experience, not about wishful thinking. Nothing is more inaccurate than projecting the experience in one country or category of worker to another.

I have been through your posts to try to know a little bit more about your background before replying to you. I'm sorry to find out that it doesn't seem that you have much personal experience in Europe first-hand.

I wish you had the same courtesy to read my posts before giving me the above advice because, if you had, you would know that:

- I have been mongering in Europe for 20 years now, from Russia to Spain, going through Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltic countries, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, etc… and, last but not least, Spain where I live 3 years in Barcelona.

- I now have a girlfriend (or more precisely a girl I sponsor) in Belarus and another one in Ukraine. They are both former working girls in Czech Republic, Germany, Switzerland and …. Spain and, as already mentioned in this forum, the one in Belarus was running a website in 2004-2005 where experienced working girls are sharing their experience to younger ones (so far for looking at forums of sex-workers. Have done that, even ran one).

- My girls are still helping other girls for this work and are holding private information sessions, and I always participate to give the man’s side when I’m in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus and listen to their side of view.

- When a girl needs help to come to work in Western Europe, we help them. Regularly. No later than last May, with the help of other members in this forum, I helped a Belarussian girl bypassing the “pimps network” to come to Germany and find a club (see here). Have been doing that for the last 8 years now. Again, just read the forum for older cases.

So it’s not that I do not give enough credit to the girls or do not read forums of sex-workers groups. It’s just based on factual experience. This last girl (and most of the girls before) doesn’t speak German, English, Spanish, whatever. Only Russian. So when she arrived in Frankfurt, I have already arranged to rent a flat for her and had to help her through all the administrative formalities like getting registered with the local authorities, getting a social security number as well as a taxpayer number, buying a health insurance, getting an authorization to work although she only had a tourist visa, etc…

I can go on and on and on, but back to the topic of Chinese girls in Barcelona, I have visited them quite a few times. Again, if you have read this forum, you would have known that I’m Asian, half-Vietnamese, half-Chinese. So I can speak to them in their own language. Most of them don’t speak any other language than their own, not even Cantonese, only Mandarin. What they told me are sometimes not nice to hear. Neither do the way they work.

Just an example: I really like a girl I just sessioned and wanted to take her out on escort. Her "Mama" said they will deliver her to my apartment. I said I want to take her out and enjoy a meal, going to a disco before. They said “Why do you want to do that, you can’t have social time, she doesn’t speak Spanish. Just go home and have sex”. Well, I can speak Mandarin. It doesn’t matter. I said “OK, I go home now, she comes with me”. They said “It’s better that our driver takes you”. I said “I need to stop by the grocery to buy some drinks first, and some other things, so we’d rather have a walk”. They said “OK, give us your address, our driver will wait for you with the girl at xxx pm”. I have tried several Chinese pisos, most of them have the same procedure.

My experiences stopped there. Other members of this forum have already confirmed that the driver brings the girl to their doorstep and specifically asked them that, when the time is over, to wait in the room for the driver to come back and pick the girl. In fact, when the escort is only for a few hours, the driver is waiting outside in his car.

And I'm not talking about pisos who do not allow escort at all. Everything on site, please.

Not to mention the fact that there are absolutely NO Chinese girls working in clubs. Only in pisos, behind locked doors (the "s" at doors is not a typo). In the whole Spain. Can you give me an explanation for that?

So what does this make? My answer is “I don’t know”. And my advice to you is also to say “I don’t know” instead of giving advice on a general basis for a place you may have never been to.

What bothers me is that, based on your advice, Param Ahmad concluded: “.... because that is rarely the case.”

Rarely? Who can say that? I say “I don’t know”. And I believe I have more experience in this particular issue, Chinese girls in Barcelona, than I think you do.

So I’m just repeating myself again and again: Some girls work on their free will, some are forced. And don’t pretend to be clever enough to tell the difference. I certainly don’t.

With due respects

[Bruce Smythe]

I'll be at the Hilton (Avinguda Diagonal) the week of Oct 3rd. Thank you all for the great intel. I need to do some more reading and planning but the Asian places are looking good.

One question. Can I trust the taxi drivers to take me to the address I give them? If I need to be suspicious, then I'll direct the taxi to a restaurant near my destination. And keep a map handy.

Thanks,

Bruce

[Rubber Nursey]

The debt would have remained if they returned home. The choice was to work it off (fast) in Australia - or go home with a massive debt hanging over their head...

Thought I should just add: When I met these women, they had (obviously) chosen to stay in Australia and work off their debts in a brothel. There's no way for me to know if the other option was genuine, because they didn't chose the other option. Maybe if they'd asked to go home instead, things would have got nasty. I can't say for sure.

[Rubber Nursey]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. So, who's gonna pay for the money already spent: air ticket to come to Australia, visa cost, lodging and food, etc...? I can't imagine whoever advanced this money telling the girl: "OK, you can go home, I will gladly pay for the return air ticket and also forget about all the money I've already spent".

Hi GandJim,

You're absolutely right...they're not just going to forget about it! I'm sorry if my message appeared to suggest that. The debt would have remained if they returned home. The choice was to work it off (fast) in Australia - or go home with a massive debt hanging over their head, which would have been near impossible for them to ever pay off (and probably would have seen them or their family members eventually turn to sex work, anyway). There's no doubt that it's coercion, but it's not physical violence, which is what I was specifically asked about.

As for sex workers not being able to find their way to other countries on their own...I don't think you're giving these women enough credit. They're not stupid. Also, I'm not suggesting that an innocent small-town girl in Thailand would suddenly decide to apply for brothel work in Australia. It's a process. The girl might find work in her local regional city, where other sex workers tell her about work in the capital city, where other sex workers tell her about work in other countries, etc. I *know* this is the process, because a) I've met heaps of women who did exactly that in SE Asian countries and ended up in Australia, and b) I followed the same process myself. I was a naive farm girl who started working in my local city and I quickly gathered contacts in other states and around the world, from other sex workers who had travelled extensively. I never took advantage of the offer but, if I wanted to, I could secure work in Europe, the US, Canada, etc with one email.

My "propaganda" is the same propaganda being pumped out by sex worker organisations all over the world. You can look up websites of sex worker unions and groups in developing countries if you think I'm just talking from a privileged white chick perspective. The fact is, current policies are encouraging, rather than reducing, trafficking. If migrant sex workers had the same rights as other migrant workers, it would put a huge dent in the trafficking business. Many changes need to occur before this problem can be properly addressed - not least of which is worldwide decriminalisation and the recognition of sex work as a legitimate occupation. But visa equality and accessibility would be a good start.

[AlanGiven]

Are the Asian houses open during the weekend, or are the only open on weekdays?

I'd like to visit them this weekend.

All day and all of the night every day.In fact 24/7.Let us know how you get on
Alan

[Nick Steve]

Are the Asian houses open during the weekend, or are the only open on weekdays?

I'd like to visit them this weekend.

[Nick Steve]

I'm heading for BCN this weekend for business.

Can anyone confirm that the asian houses like Muntaner 14 are open during the weekend? Or are they only open on weekdays.

[GandJim]

They were just told that if they didn't agree to the work, they would be sent back home

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. So, who's gonna pay for the money already spent: air ticket to come to Australia, visa cost, lodging and food, etc...? I can't imagine whoever advanced this money telling the girl: "OK, you can go home, I will gladly pay for the return air ticket and also forget about all the money I've already spent".

I've found Rubber Nursey quite naive in saying "Instead of finding their own work and applying for their own visas,....". Does she really believe a moment that a Russian, Brazilian, Rumanian or Chinese country girl back there in a remote village one day suddendly decides: OK, I 'm going to Barcelona to work in a club or a piso, I know what they are, where they are and how to contact them (they are more knowledgeable than most members of this forum who always have to ask where to find a club, maybe they learned it at school...). They speak fluently Spanish to negotiate with different potential employers (wonder why they then forget this language once they arrive). They know all about visa procedure (do you? just try to get a visa to go to work in Russia or China and see how it works.... and if you're in Russia or China, there is no Spanish consulate some thousand km around), they have relatives in Spain who can send them an invitation and a guarantee letter that they will bear all their costs while they are in Spain and provide proof of sufficient lodging space. Their dad is so proud that his daughter will be a hooker that he will gladly give her the money to buy her air ticket (it's probably only 10 years' savings, if not more), etc..., etc..., etc...

Do you know what administrative formalities a girl must go through before she gets a visa, and what other formalities she must comply with once she arrives before she gets a valid work permit?

Most of the girls CAN'T find their own work and apply for their own visa. They didn't learn at school that, for prostitution, they better go to Spain or Germany than to France or Sweeden.

Sorry to say this, but what Rubber Nursey wrote sounds also like just plain propaganda.

Jim

[Param Ahmad]

Because of the amount of debate about forced prostitution in this Barcelona section, I am, with her permission, reproducing the response I received from Rubber Nursey after I wrote to her asking if she'd ever met a woman who was trafficked and/or forced to work as a prostitute. She asked me to mention she was referring only to Australia and isn't familiar with what's happening in Spain, but as I have indicated in previous reports, my own observations make me confident it's the same everywhere I've been, including Spain:

Hi Param

No, I have NEVER met a sex worker who was kidnapped and forced into an Australian brothel. (I have met, and was close friends with, a sex worker from Bulgaria who went through that ordeal in her home country, but she came to Australia by choice). I have met a few migrant workers who were tricked into thinking they would be doing waitressing, etc in Australia and when they got here, they were told they had to work in a brothel. HOWEVER...they were not FORCED to work in the brothels, with violence. They were just told that if they didn't agree to the work, they would be sent back home. Sure, it was a tough choice for those women, but it WAS a choice.

What I do meet, all the time, is migrant sex workers who came to Australia on contract (or "debt bondage"). This happens because our Govt treats all international sex workers as 'sex slaves' and makes it hard for them to come here independently, even though it is lawful for them to work in our sex industry. Instead of finding their own work and applying for their own visas, they are forced to employ agents (traffickers) to do it, who charge them thousands of dollars for the service, which they have to work off. People often confuse these contracts with people 'buying and selling' kidnapped and abused women. That is not the case. These contracts, while horrible, are freely entered into by sex workers...usually they are already working as sex workers in their own countries, and contracts are the only way they can get into my country to work.

I am NOT saying that forced prostitution doesn't exist. I'm just saying it isn't as common as people think it is. As you may know from my posts, I am part of an Australian sex worker association that runs large-scale projects in the Asia/Pacific region, working closely with international sex worker groups. We also run a trafficking prevention project in Australia. All our migration projects are staffed by international sex workers with personal experience and I have met thousands of sex workers in the twelve years I've been involved with this stuff.

RN

So gentlemen, while we should, of course, take appropriate action in defense of women by reporting the facts to appropriate authorities if it appears to us a woman has been kidnapped and forced into prostitution, we should at the same time not be made to feel guilty by misleading news reporting suggesting any man who spends money on prostitution is supporting violence against women, because that is rarely the case.

[Kiwi 69]

Can anyone tell me if Muntaner 14 has a website as when I google earth for directions from my hotel, I get lots of options and I'm not sure which one to choose.

Any view on which one is the best. I know it's often personal choice, but they both get good write ups and I want to be able to enjoy my hour of fun.

http://www.orientalesbarcelona.com/652/694.html

[Pumpable]

Was in Barcelona for a few nights on a business trip.

Called Bambi, a Russian escort

Was send an ukranian lady that looked nothing like bambi's picture. Sent her back after 15 minutes of trying to explain to her that she is not what I expected.

I think the safest bet is to go see the girl for yourself.

[Llantarnam]

I'm visiting Barca next weekend and have a few hours before meeting up with everyone else, so I thought I'd enjoy some female company for a while. After a lot of reading of the forum, Felina and Muntaner14 appear to be the best options for what I want.

Can anyone tell me if Muntaner 14 has a website as when I google earth for directions from my hotel, I get lots of options and I'm not sure which one to choose.
Any view on which one is the best. I know it's often personal choice, but they both get good write ups and I want to be able to enjoy my hour of fun.

Never been to either, but the location of Muntaner 14 looks obvious on Google maps. If you use the street view option you can see the gate with the No 14 above it.

[AlanGiven]

I'm visiting Barca next weekend and have a few hours before meeting up with everyone else, so I thought I'd enjoy some female company for a while. After a lot of reading of the forum, Felina and Muntaner14 appear to be the best options for what I want.

Can anyone tell me if Muntaner 14 has a website as when I google earth for directions from my hotel, I get lots of options and I'm not sure which one to choose.

Any view on which one is the best. I know it's often personal choice, but they both get good write ups and I want to be able to enjoy my hour of fun.

Both are good 0ptions and if I was you I would try both. They are easey to find and have been reviewed on this forum many times. Look for the web addresses on here. Its 70e at the Chinese place and 120e at Felina for an hour. For VFM I prefer Muntaner but thats just personal choice. Felina is also great. Both will provide a line up and if you don't see what you like politly decline and walkout. Never done this myself tho 'but its ok to do. Hope you enjoy yourself. Let us know what you got up to. Not being rude but Barcelona is not Barca thats the football team and not the city. BCN is ok

Enjoy your weekend.

Best wishes

Alan

[Lifesjoy]

I'm visiting Barca next weekend and have a few hours before meeting up with everyone else, so I thought I'd enjoy some female company for a while. After a lot of reading of the forum, Felina and Muntaner14 appear to be the best options for what I want.

Can anyone tell me if Muntaner 14 has a website as when I google earth for directions from my hotel, I get lots of options and I'm not sure which one to choose.
Any view on which one is the best. I know it's often personal choice, but they both get good write ups and I want to be able to enjoy my hour of fun.

[Putana]

Hello,

Can somebody tell me what happened with the www.loquo.com site? Is there any other site available where we can find girls in Barcelona?

You may try this one : http://www.mundoanuncio.com