General Info

[Doctor_Skank]

it travel. either you are a billionaire in the same league as bill gates or you are out of touch with reality. to give 2500$ a month to a dievoushka to entertain you and clean your appartment? get a grip: you are not in switzerland, london or dubai! here in ukraine, people are extremely happy with a 500$ a month salary! its guys like you that are getting the locals used to prices that they never dreamed of! by accepting to pay high rent prices, by going to expensive restaurants, by accepting to pay pro's $200+, by buying expensive gifts and mobiles to freebies etc etc, you contribute to making the ukraine destination out of reach pricewise! i really don't understand you. if you can afford to spend that kind of cash, why don't you stay in western europe or the usa?

please, when in rome, do as romans. when in ukraine, pay the pro's the prices that ukrainian men themselves would pay and buy the freebies the kind of gifts that ukrainian men would buy them!

first of all i don't personally use sponsorship because it doesn't make sense for my personal situation... why sponsor a girl for a month when i only want to fuck her 2-3 times anyway? but sponsorship does make sense for a lot of people, in particular russian and ukrainian businessmen. and i have done some "temporary" sponsoring, which is basically just prostitution... even if sponsorship in its true form is another animal.

i have researched quite a bit and spoken to some of the girls.

to clarify, "true" sponsorship isn't direct prostitution and follows it's own "rules". direct prostitution is cheaper if the number of "intimate meetings" is low... sponsorship only makes sense if you need a girl for several days and/or wish to throw your money around.

the prices it is quoting aren't "foreigner prices" in my opinion.. they are market prices determined by the market. the market for sponsorship is dominated by local sponsors... not foreigners. most foreigners don't even know this market exists. obviously price levels will be higher in the capital cities than in the country, but sponsorship prices everywhere are independent of local wage levels. relevant for us, generally speaking, are price levels in the major cities. in the cities prices range from 1000 € to 5000 € a month and more. quite honestly, the 1000 € girls often look just as good or better than some of the 5000 € ones. maybe it takes a russian or ukrainian to tell the difference.

another misconception is that sponsored girls live with you. often they don't. they are just on call girlfriends, often a second or third girlfriend for rich guys when the live in girlfriend or wife gets boring. in addition to their "sponsorship fee" they often get gifts and holiday trips. russians and ukrainians are considerably more generous to their sponsored girlfriends than we are, at least that's what the girls tell me. the girls even consider us foreigners a bit cheap. i am of course talking about girls in the 8-9 range in the club circuit and not some naive dyev from the boondocks. even naive dyev from the boondocks will soon learn the nature of the game and her pussy will get more expensive by the month until it reaches it's half life at 22 years old and start to degenerate.

where many westerners make a mistake is by giving outlandish and expensive presents to "normal" girls who aren't by any means sponsored and often aren't even that hot or special. some fools even send girls money, which is completely insane. especially in micro-markets like chisinau (moldova) or odessa (ukraine) or in the clubs and circles frequented by foreigners in kiev we indeed are our own worst enemy. indeed these girls are spoiled by foolish foreigners. in larger markets however, particularly greater kiev (away from river palace and 112 etc.) and basically anywhere in moscow... it's local money that's spoiling the girls, not ours.

in my research i've found that girls asking for sponsorship will turn tricks on the side to make some extra cash... but they aren't cheaper than normal pros and are in fact often more expensive. the girls are top drawer... but also looking for $300-500 for an "intimate meeting". i don't pay those prices because it goes against my principles... i like to do the fucking and not be the one getting fucked. that said, not paying that price does often means not fucking that girl. many girls won't fuck for less than $200-300. there's always other cheaper options, but that's another story. whether or not the locals are paying considerably less i cannot confirm... but my dyev contacts suggest that the locals pay the same as foreigners. again i am talking about glam girls and not $50 salon specials or $100 semi-pros picked up from the disco. those are completely separate and considerably cheaper markets. in terms of normal prostitution, kiev is about $70-80/hour right now for hot chicks. moscow about $100/hour or $300-400/night for good quality.

example:
Привет, меня зовут Настя, мой возраст 21 , часик со мной стоит 80$ Предлагаю массаж, классику, оральный, ночь 300$, анала и всего прочего нет. Мой рост 170, вес 56кг, грудь 4, есть еще подружка зовут Даша,рядом на сайте, она моя ровесница ей 21, часик с ней стоит 80$ предлагает массаж, классику, оральный, ночь 300$, анала и всего прочего нет. Её рост 167, вес 55кг, грудь 2.
Никаких других подружек нет, фото наши. Все в пределах Киева, если хочешь приехать к нам обоим, просто сложи цену.

Ждем Вас у себя в центре или приедим в гости. Все в презервативе, даже оральный!"

($80/hour or $300 night, kiev based britney spears type... her girlfriend, skinny model type with average face, available at same price.)

as stated previously, i think it's quoted price for sponsorship (again, it isn't normal prostitution... whatever that means) is fairly realistic, but some girls go for considerably less. for example:

"это интересно, а поддержка в 10 000 р-й за встречу(или 1000 евро в месяц ) поможет мне быть более красивой весёлой и независимой в мелочах, создаст возможность для достойных взаимоотношений между серьёзным мужчиной и юной девушкой"

(10,000 rubles ($350) per meeting or 1000 € ($1200) a month, moscow-based [CodeWord901] type girl)

this 1000 € price however doesn't mean she lives with you or is oncall to show up immediately 24 hours a day. it means that a few times a month she'll come over and poke you, or be your eye candy escort when you go to clubs, restaurants or the ballet. it also doesn't mean she'll do the dishes or iron your shirt... but she just might. her job description is a matter of negotiation, just like just about everything in russia and ukraine.

as for rent and expensive restaurants, the prices there are also determined by the local market and not overspending foreigners. the most expensive restaurants in kiev or odessa for example do have their share of foreign clientele, usually some sap wasting money on some girl he's trying to fuck "for free"... but if you'll look closely, most of the clientele is local and the guy always pays.

the rent and real estate market is a victim of local (russian and ukrainian) investment and speculation. we foreigners also have to pay these prices, but it's not because of us.... and we aren't paying more than the locals.

i agree 100% that we should do what we can individually and maintain our own self-esteem and control over our pocketbooks, but in terms of sponsorship and prostitution, market prices are largely beyond our control.

agencies (like gia) or clubs like river palace who do cater to a foreign crowd will try to rob clueless foreigners blind, but looking at a grander scale of prostitiution and sponsorship the locals are doing just as much to screw it up as we are, in my opinion their contribution to the problem is considerably more significant than ours through sheer volume... at least when looking at the rise of prices for sponsorship.

you really won't get much in terms of sponsorship for $500/month in kiev... in moscow you wouldn't even get the time of day, where prices are at least $1200-1500 a month, averaging about $2000-3000, and sometimes as much as $10,000+/month.

if you or anybody else has evidence to the contrary, i would be very glad to hear it.

[Doctor_Skank]

Bez,

The jump in prices is pretty normal for Russia right now... wish I owned property in Russia..

For 14 days you should be able to get a discount, usually anything over 5-7 days. You should at least try...

Just hope that nobody buys the property up or rents it out long-term. Already lost some of my favorite apartments that way...

[American Ukraine]

I don't get it. Why do people from third world countries go to Lugansk? For work and for school? What do they do there? The standard of living is actually higher in Lugansk than where they come from? This baffels me. What countries are we talking about here? Aren't there better places to immigrate to? Even people in Lugansk flee to Russia to find work. Please enlighten me.

They are actually medical students.. mostly indians, arabs, malaysians, nigerians..

Most of them are under 23 years of age..there are roughly about 1200 foreign medical students enrolled at this university.

I dont think anybody would want to work here for a lousy 150$ a month, no scope for business as well..

[American Ukraine]

Timmy21,

And I totally AGREE with you. I feel there is a lot of difference between your lifestyle here and mine, you contradicted me in one of my prior posts saying women are not so easy here and they prefer being with ukranians rather than foreigners.

When a foreigner who has no charm. Who is 20 years older than her. No style, no game what so ever. Who has just money to offer. Girls will play him like a base ball. And even ukranian guys will target him. (I am not talking about you its my general view of westerners who come here to get married)

I don't use money. Or my nationality to impress these ladies. I act with them how a normal ukranian would act. Take them to not so expensive places, not scared to stop a girl on the street and ask for her number. Hell if I really like the girl sometimes I don't even care if she has guys in her group. Never pay for their taxi. And somehow every week I have atleast 3 new girls. Some of them I post on the photo forum who allow me to take their nude photos. More than half of them who don't allow me to make their nude photos, I don't post them

Talking about interaction with locals. I hangout in places where normal ukranians go. I choose the cheapest clubs where girls with no money come. , most of my friends are ukranians. And not those Sophisticated ukranians you probably meet. But the ones who get drunk on home made vodka outside the club. Before they enter it. , and they don't target me cuz they know they aint gettin' shit from me.

And I feel there is nothing unfortunate about having ukranians as friends if you know how to deal with them. If you don't like to have any of the locals as your friend, and they disgust you, then I feel that you are wasting your time here.

That music store you are talking about. LOL. Its store where they sell stuff for rockers. Next time you go there. You will find a guy with lots of piercings his name is Sergey, ask him about samy, hez a friend of mine. And many of the customers there are foreign students who like western life style. And music. Not many ukranians will buy from there. Cuz they aint so much in to western music

So basically its all about how you act with them. Acting like a typical foreigner, getting scared. And treating them like dirt and running away from them will make you hate them. And them to hate you. I am in this for the money? You must be kiddin'. Let me count how many millions I made. I share my ideas and experiences. And thats it

Mr. Bezarra, I was told by the moderator that I can add my report to the Distinction thread, so I was just following instructions, hell somebody had to make a start. Maybe you can add this report of mine in the Distinction thread for me.

[Timmy21]

American Ukraine, I ve been living in Lugansk for nearly three yrs, I disagree with much of your prior post, when I read some of your posts, I have to believe you're talking of a totally different Luganst,

I associate with many Ukraine guys (unfortunately), I can say with the most certainty, that there is a great deal of bigotry here, when these guys see a group of Arabian students, or someone from Africa, the things they say are very mean, and outright cruel, I highly doubt however, that the majority of people here would tend to act out violently against foreign students; but, I'm sure it's happened, there is a bigotry here, and alot of it. My gosh, there's a small magazine in the center, located in the basement of a music store, that sells skinhead clothing, boots, etc. and that's all they sell. There must be a market for this type of merchandise in this city.

I am not viewed by the locals as a foreign student with no money, and I am not the only one, when guys come here from the west, and chase girls through these silly marriage agencies, or do whatever they come here for, the locals don't look at these people (and me included) as being poor, with barley enough funds to pay for their flat, the locals (and i refer to all of them or maybe 99%) here will take as much as they can, from who they can, whenever they can, because they know these people have money, that's life here in Lugansk, there are times I just don't understand what you're writing about.

AM, you need to venture out of the friendly confines of that med university, mingle with the locals. I highly suspect you're in this for the money, and way off with much you write about.

[CharlieH]

Uke Boy is correct the only foreigners here are from 3rd world countries. And with very less money.

I don't get it. Why do people from third world countries go to Lugansk? For work and for school? What do they do there? The standard of living is actually higher in Lugansk than where they come from? This baffels me. What countries are we talking about here? Aren't there better places to immigrate to? Even people in Lugansk flee to Russia to find work. Please enlighten me.

[Bez Bezarra]

You actually honored YOURSELF by quoting your OWN post for the Distinction Reports thread?

Wo! You MUST be chock full of that Harry Pooter outstanding moral fiber stuff.

[American Ukraine]

Lugansk shit hole, yes. Ukraine as a country is full of shit, be it kiev. Kharkov or lvov. Bad roads. Old buildings. Corrupt drunk cops. Maybe the central area in some of the bigger cities is alright. But on the whole the infrascructure of citiee are the same and is bad.

But. Why does any monger or playa come here? I am sure nobody comes here for sight seeing or for a family vacation! Or to appreciate the local people of this amazing country!

If you want everything perfect. Go to rome or venice. You will have a perfect vacation there. But I don't think you will get laid there so easily

Men from this website come here for sex. Getting laid the easy and cheaper way. And that too with better looking girls. I am sure no 18 year old blonde college girl will open her legs for you in your respective first world countries for this price

Now if you want to come to a thrid world, dirty country, to satisfy your sexual fantasies or needs. Then be ready to face the consequences. Nothing is perfect. , don't be scared. And don't try to scare others away.

Racism. Attacks. Skinheads. Take it out off your head. And if you ever come here. Go out there and try to get some pussy! Without having any fear of getting beatin up!

No Lugansk is not the enlightened epicenter of Ukraine, . Its a poor. Unwanted. Cheap. Disgusting city with a lotta beautiful girls, and the city I know best about as I am living here.

Uke Boy is correct the only foreigners here are from 3rd world countries. And with very less money. Thanks to them, the local population in this city is used to foreigners. And the ukranians here know that these foreigners are poor 3rd world country students. Who are barely paying their school and hostel fees. So they don't expect or wait any money from them. Because they know they can't get anything out of them. So they have even stopped trying.

Now when an american or west european or a first world country citizen comes here he is not troubled or targeted so much by the locals. As he is lost between the the foreigners here who don't have so much money. And is thought as one of them.

Unlike cities like Odessa and Kiev. Which are crowded by mostly first world country citizens. Business men. Mongers, tourists. Who come down with a lot of money. They are the ones who are targeted by the locals mainly out of jealousy.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Uke Boy]

Cruiser, you are more right than wrong about racial attitudes here. It is one long sad tale of prejudice and in places it is getting worse, not just in the east but also in western Ukraine. In fact, the westerners can be even worse in their attitudes.

That being said, for AU in that particular shithole called Lugansk, he probably is better off there than elsewhere. I believe that pathetic excuse for a medical school was somewhat designed to take (and more importantly, take the money from) third-world students. That means that there are lots of third-world students hanging about and getting the locals used to them. I suspect the locals tolerate them as much as possible as long as they can make some money off of them.

As for AU and his now having resided in Lugansk for some time, I think that he understands the limits and conditions the locals have set out for him. He knows what lines he cannot cross. If tomorrow AU moved to Lviv, he would have a much worse circumstance awaiting him.

For the occasional visitor to Kiev who is non-white, the level of racism and skinhead activity is still much less than in Moscow or elsewhere in Russia. It exists, but mostly affects those non-whites who live here long term.

[Cruiser D]

AU, I don't mean to get in a debate about this but I just find it interesting that you seem to have completely opposite views of people I talk to, what I read in the news and what I experience myself first hand. During my stays in Kiev it always seemed like racial attacks were a given and the further east you went the more the chances increased. This seems to be the conventional wisdom of the day. Would anyone with Ukraine experience care to enlighten me? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Uke Boy?

During my last stay in Kiev I was completely fascinated by the Ukrainian version of 'Cops' which generally involved petty crime and drunks.

I didn't realize Lugansk was the enlightened epicenter of the Ukraine. I thought it was a shit hole industrial city and a bastion for the xenophobic and racist Russians in the Ukraine.

[American Ukraine]

American,

In late Decemeber a African student was beaten to death in Kiev.

Also around that time a friend of mine who looks arab was assulted near Mandarin plaza.

The crime rate in America and some other Western European countries is much higher than of what in Ukraine. Many arabs and also blacks have been victims of racist attacks in the west. That doesn't mean people should stop visiting these countries. And we stop living there.

These are only one or two incidences. And plus Kiev is the capital its more prone to crime as millions of people live there. When I talk about ukraine I mainly highlight Lugansk. And the dombass region.

[Explorer69]

I have throughout the years used GIA 5-6 times. I am surprised by the negative comments from some members of the forums. I have always experienced that the girl who came on my door is the girl on the picture, and I have had from good to excellent sessions, with some real GFE. In my book GIA is a good and reliable agency, however, I have not used them for the last 1-2 years, maybe things have become worse? I am also aware that they have become more expensive. The reason I have not used them lately is that I have had "girlfriends" in Kiev or feel it is fun to look around in the clubs for girls... But if I called an agency in Kiev, it would definitely be GIA and I would recommend to my friends!

[Cruiser D]

GIA is okay if you don't mind settling for average girls at slightly above average prices. But who travels to Kiev for an average girl? I can see if you are a dead tired business man who doesn't speak Russian and want to get a pop or two off between a meeting or sleep, otherwise don't be a tool.

[Kma12]

GIA -Reasonable

My experience with GIA is always good, The price may not be the best deal in town but I never let myself cry over 20-30$ more, in my humble experience the bad taste of lousy service last much longer then the sweet taste of the low price.

I had the GIA girls few times before and it was always on-time, no bad surprises and as many times as you possibly can.

All in all money well spend.

I defiantly recommend it to all you non-pro-mongers like me.

Have fun!

[Cruiser D]

I moved this posting out of the photo thread to here, where it belongs.


American...

In late Decemeber a African student was beaten to death in Kiev.

Also around that time a friend of mine who looks arab was assulted near Mandarin plaza.

I'm not saying the Ukraine is a safe/unsafe place. I'm just pointing out that what you are saying might be a little bit too rosey and paint the wrong picture. Also my chat's with other people in Kiev and reading the local news really doesn't jive with what you are saying.

During the warmer months public drinking is a huge problem and the amount of assaults increase.