General Info

[Riggo]

anyone knows a good broker for apartements in city center (near sas and hyatt) for short term rent. i need to change my agency for them being real idiots.

i am looking for clean and neat apartments, light, modern, good bathroom, clean, clean, clean!

any help is appr.

i can tell you to just stay away from this agency for renting an apartment:

http://visioneve.org/accomodation/index.html

my buddy is over there now. he rented an apartment from them, they said it was rennovated, had satellite tv, and had broadband internet included. when he arrived, he said it was not rennovated, had no satellite tv or broadband, and had no hot water (only lukewarm). he complained, the manager katya said that he could go find another apartment and she would refund him the balance of the money he paid ($900). he found another apartment and moved to it, but then the manager told him she would not give him any refund. he was out $900. when he complained more, she said that she would have the maid write and sign a statement that he tried to fuck her, she said she would write one as well, she would give them to the police, and he would be arrested at the airport when he was leaving. of course this is complete bullshit.

just stay away from this apartment agency, they are crooks.

====================================================

greetings everyone,

on 01-26-08 i received the following email from "tony@ukraineadventures.com" regarding the above report.

dear sir / madam,

this post, submitted by riggo is totally false and i as a partner in the business, visioneve, would like to politely ask you to kindly remove it. all comments made are totally false, are slanderous and are a defamation of character. i do know the situation which arose to this and the gentleman mentioned as the "poor hard done by man" name is richard jodan who voluntarily moved out of his apartment. this is sour grapes on his behalf for something our company did nothing wrong. i can show you all the correspondence between us, should you wish to see it. on discovering this thread on google i have now written to mr jodan informing him that i will be taking legal action against him if this very false thread is not removed from your forum about our company. i do not want to cause mr jodan problems so i hope this thread will be removed to avoid legal action against him or his friends who have posted it.

please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss this further

my name is tony monk
my email address is tony@ukraineadventures.com
my phone number in the uk is +44 1256 882339

unlike people who hide behind handles i give my name and contact details.

your kind assistance would be gratefully appreciated. i look forward to hearing back from you.

kind regards,

tony

thanks,

jackson

[Nolies]

1) Never, ever get serious about a woman from the former USSR.

2) Every single word coming out of her mouth is an absolute lie.

3) Show any sign of weakness and you will be eaten alive.Thay smell weakness and view it as you being less than a man should be.Do not be too nice.Do not put up with any crap,bullshit,tricks, games,manipulation, ors scamming whatsoever.If you lose any girl because of it, you are fortunate!!

4) Keep a rotating list of girls,updating constantly.That way, you have a list, just as she does.

5) Try not to be the sponsor, provider, meal ticket of the day that she later dumps.

6) Do not spend even $1 on the first date, as chances are good you will ne
ver see her again

WHAT THEY ARE THINKING:

1) Foreign men are wallets with legs

2) Heart for one, pussy for everyone

3) Take advantage of every single opportunity to the fullest extent possible

4) We do not need foreigners.they are more trouble than they are worth.They hve nothing to offer that our ukrainian men cannot offer.

5) However, you can use foreigners to either practice english, have a short and new experience, or as a sponsor/meal ticket/provider for a day or two.

And, take as many of your friends as possible along for the ride.

6) Foreigners are all here to have sex with you or try to meet you and , within a few days, take you to some strange foreign country to be a sex slave.

7) Encounters with foreigners are strange and very infrequent occurences, but dont worry.If you ignore them , they will go away

Guys: golden days are over. First they liked us, then they ignored us. Now they hate us.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Evilz632]

I have already shared my views on this subject and appreciate everyone elses views as well, but you are correct sleuth, this isn't the forum to discuss this, because the argument will be endless, because everyones experience will be different. I am sorry you were treated as a leper in Ukraine mumba, but maybe you shouldn't come on the ISG to talk about racism in Kiev, this is a sex site and your three and only posts where on something completely off topic, makes me wonder what your other screen name might be .

And you are correct SS, what is important is, " will the girls here still fuck a Jew or Arab, and the facts are there, " American in Ukraine ", a young arab student in Ukraine is getting boatloads of pussy, he has many friends here, speaks the language and seems to be still alive. So it isn't exactly 1930's Germany, but maybe for some people, they feel something different, but just understand, everyones experience is different.

But yes, what matters most here is money, and with it you can get laid, even you mumba.

Regards,

EZ

Mumba - being half Jewish, and usually visibly recognized as Jewish in these parts, I can empathize with where you are coming from.

I'd have oodles more to say on the subject - I just don't think this is the place to do it. If we start, there will be no end in sight (until Jackson comes and deletes our posts....).

On the mongering side: When it comes to the pros, I suspect money trumps ethnicity, despite what the working girls' views may otherwise be....

[Street Sleuth]

Evil Z is not a Jew, a Black or a foreigner in Ukraine. So how would he know what is happening there and what it is like to be a non-white/non European foreigner there on a daily basis? What things people say to you, dirty looks, and attacks? Of course he is going to say that it is minimal. It is minimal to HIM because it is not happening to HIM.

It does not make it any better for people who are now dead and buried. Let him go to the cemetery and explain to dead Arabs, Asians, Blacks and Jews that the racism is minimal. Let him explain it to their families.

Let him get on any large Ukrainian forum online. It is replete with Jew boy this and Jew boy that, it is like the year is 1933 in Germany.

And Crimean Tatars are still looked down upon by many people ( not their pretty young ladies though). And the Greek ones are not so dark after all. Try being an Arab there.

http://blog.kievukraine.info/2007/06...robe-into.html

Mumba - being half Jewish, and usually visibly recognized as Jewish in these parts, I can empathize with where you are coming from.

I'd have oodles more to say on the subject - I just don't think this is the place to do it. If we start, there will be no end in sight (until Jackson comes and deletes our posts....).

On the mongering side: When it comes to the pros, I suspect money trumps ethnicity, despite what the working girls' views may otherwise be....

[Mumba Yumba]

Evil Z is not a Jew, a Black or a foreigner in Ukraine. So how would he know what is happening there and what it is like to be a non-white/non European foreigner there on a daily basis? What things people say to you, dirty looks, and attacks? Of course he is going to say that it is minimal. It is minimal to HIM because it is not happening to HIM.

It does not make it any better for people who are now dead and buried. Let him go to the cemetery and explain to dead Arabs, Asians, Blacks and Jews that the racism is minimal. Let him explain it to their families.

Let him get on any large Ukrainian forum online. It is replete with Jew boy this and Jew boy that, it is like the year is 1933 in Germany.

And Crimean Tatars are still looked down upon by many people ( not their pretty young ladies though). And the Greek ones are not so dark after all. Try being an Arab there.

http://blog.kievukraine.info/2007/06...robe-into.html

[Street Sleuth]

Racism,

Not to belabor the issue - just trying to post pertinent information.

Recently, a couple pretty nasty racially motivated attacks occured in Kiev - one involving 4 teenagers who attacked an Asian foreigner (I think Korean, but don't remember for certain). Report was the teenagers didn't know the foreigner, and had no contact/argument with them. Anyway, Asian was followed, then slashed to death by teens with broken bottles. So badly mangled, they couldn't be identified by close friends.

Sad to read this, but it happened.

[Reiner Otto]

I thank you for this forum.

A strange thing about www.flirt.com. Ua: I have some profiles of beautiful girls and these profiles have some pictures of these girls together their ugly female friends. I think beautiful girls usually don't need to find boys for their games and so I wonder what is the reason these beautiful girls (and not their ugly female friends) put their profiles in flirt?

flirt.com shares the same data base as www.singles.ru

I tried quite a few girls in Nikolaev (I am working there in the moment), but 99% are more or less scammers. Because I speak a little bit Russian, I could also contact this type. Only small success in real contact with girls >25. But they are looking into serious relations only.

[Mumba Yumba]

I appreciate your opinion but I hope you understand it is worth what I paid for it, and so is mine for that matter. I will make this my last post on the subject

I clearly stated, there is racism in Ukraine, just like in any country, but it is much less prevalent than in most other Western European, North American and Latin American countries. Am I getting my point across here? The racism you will find here is minimal compared to the kind of racism one might find in the USA, Latin America or many other Western European countries and much of it has to do with the forced integration during Socialism, I won't say Communism because that would be a mistake since true communism has never existed beyond the conceptual point, the rest of it goes back thousands of years and is part of our shared multi ethnic history and culture.

My second point is this, BTW, another point you seemed to have glossed over, There is a large majority of Ukrainians who are actually dark skinned, Crimean Tartars, Crimean Greeks, Mongol, Khazar, Bulgar, Hungar, Ottoman. Should I go on? If we discriminate dark skinned people we are discriminating a large portion of our own people. Ethnic minorities from varying ex Soviet Republics, Armenians and so on, so no matter how racist you think we are, we are not only multi cultural in actuality but also multi racial. It seems to me you don't really know or understand Ukrainian history, we were colonized by not only mongols but tartars as well, and it is a great misconception that Ukrainians are all light skinned people with blue eyes. That is personally one of the most attractive thing about Ukrainian women, some are straight out blonde haired blue eyed beauties, but so many other have this racial ambiguity that is quite attractive and mysterious. If you haven't noticed this I don't know what Ukraine you have visited.

I am Ukrainian and for you to generalize is quite patronizing, I do know fellow Ukrainians that do make comments but they are the minority. The Ukrainian culture has always historically been an accepting culture. I find it funny for foreigners to come here for a couple years and try to tell US what our country is and isn't. But you can think what you want, just as long as you understand I disagree. None of this matters, everyone has a different view and experience of Ukraine and that is alright, I am just making sure the forum members don't just read one jaded version of what Ukraine really is.

Regards,

Evil Z

So, EvilZ. Let me ask you this- do you consider Jews born in Ukraine as fellow Ukrainians? How many of your compatriates do? Is Isaak Goldstein a Ukranian to you?

[Mumba Yumba]

I agree with you here, WAY too complex to discuss on this type of board. It is obvious every one has different experiences with the subject and maybe no single person is 100% correct, It seems Qjump experienced some form of racism and maybe a few others did as well, and I am sorry for that. But a few events aren't enough in my opinion to paint a whole people with the same brush. But in the end I feel your overall perspective is very complete, it isn't simply excusing or condemning without any facts but in some way trying to really give some historical and cultural context while at the same time giving parallels with other countries in North America, Europe and Eastern Europe. I think if more posters were as thoughtful as you seem to be, we could actually discuss certain topics productively.

I think we all see what we choose to see and sometimes project onto others our own deep seeded prejudices and misconceptions, Ukrainians are great people overall, I think that is whats important to focus on. But as was said before, for anyone traveling ANYWHERE, Germany (skinheads), Russia (slava rossi nationalists), Israel (stern gang type racists and religious extremists) Sweden (racist hooligans), England (racist hooligans) USA (kkk, racists, rednecks, southerners, skinheads, police officers, government) Latin America (Castizo and Mestizo racist elite types), middle east (religious extremists) ETC. Wherever in the world you will deal with the same. Some places it is much more endemic, Ukraine is NOT one of those places.

Thanks again SS,

Great commentary,

Evil Z

I was born in Ukraine and by and large Ukrainians are OK but the character is described by the famous Ukranian proverb- "Moya hata skrayu, nichogo ne znayu". Meaning My house is at the edge of the village and I do not wish to know anything". "Don't bother me and I won't bother you" seems to be the norm.

Problems begin when people of undesirable ethnicities try and penetrate the soceity- renting apartments, trying to make friends, marry girls, get jobs and move up in soceity. This is when they hit a glass ceiling.

It again depends on where in Ukraine you are- Lviv is very racist and anti- Polish, Jewish and Russian. The Carpathian region is more open and so is the South.

The "I was there and nothing bad happened to me" is not a valid argument. I was in South Africa and nothing happened to me, either. It doesnot mean that it does not have the highest crime rate on earth. You need to live there, speak the language, try and do things, then you will see what I mean.

[AColonizer]

i thank you for this forum.

i have a lot of kiev girls' profiles, above all non-prostitutes, and i hope to blowjob a lot at least with one of those. .

i was surprised about the second time i visited the river palace, i saw a "9" beauty who had gone away alone, incredible! (i give a "10" only for girls taller than 1, 75 m)

what about patipa, i saw some interesting girls but i was afraid to look like silly because i don't speak russian.

what are the magic words to start a speech in ukrainian way with normal girls? and with p2p girls?

a strange thing about www.flirt.com. ua: i have some profiles of beautiful girls and these profiles have some pictures of these girls together their ugly female friends. i think beautiful girls usually don't need to find boys for their games and so i wonder what is the reason these beautiful girls (and not their ugly female friends) put their profiles in flirt?

[Street Sleuth]

First off, don't offer advice on STD's unless you are 101% sure. You can get HIV, Herp, Hep, HPV and a whole lot of interesting other things that start with an 'H' via mouth to mouth contact is any of it 100%? No. Is there a chance, yes. I'm not going to get into it. But if you want real information - not well, gee, I kinda remember hearing from a guy who said he was a doctor - or I remember from 8th Grade health ed - go to CDC.gov, the US Center for Disease and Control. Unless you are 101% sure stop spreading misinformation. It my comfort you and the rest of us involved in high risk sex but it really isn't helping anyone.

Apartment Agencies in Kiev are a huge case of YMMV. Most ask for a deposit of one night so that way if you don't show they aren't out the rent - seems fair to me and I never heard of anyone getting screwed over on this. There is no Silver Bullet agency in Kiev. No one is renting reasonably priced modern clean apartments in Kiev - even seasoned veterans (ie. ME) have a hard time finding something reasonable.

Relax. We're all aware of how to find reliable information on STD's. I really don't think anyone who is literate enough to find this board would go off of your or my advice regarding STD's.

Daily apartment rentals are abundant, although seemingly heavily booked up, in Kiev. They are a much better deal than hotels, and for around $100/ight you can have a very clean, central apartment. But I agree with CD on this - I don't know of any sure-fire agency either, and the 'deposit in advance', although it may seem like a scam, usually isn't.

[DoctorOral]

Guys,

Get real now. This is Kiev, not New York, not London.

Thank you for the bullshit and the nonadvice. Why did I ask. I am involved in the hotel market and know the venues. I had a clean, modern, cozy and safe apartment for the last year that I have been in kiev. Unfortunately, my broker closed since she moved out of kiev. Now, I wanted advise.

Forget about it, quickly. Since I am sick of the ***t

[PassinThrough]

First off, don't offer advice on STD's unless you are 101% sure. You can get HIV, Herp, Hep, HPV and a whole lot of interesting other things that start with an 'H' via mouth to mouth contact is any of it 100%? No. Is there a chance, yes. I'm not going to get into it. But if you want real information - not well, gee, I kinda remember hearing from a guy who said he was a doctor - or I remember from 8th Grade health ed - go to CDC.gov, the US Center for Disease and Control. Unless you are 101% sure stop spreading misinformation. It my comfort you and the rest of us involved in high risk sex but it really isn't helping anyone.

Hence my first comment..."There is a lot of information on STD's in other forums on this board. I would go read them and do a web search for more information." and the ubiquitous comment "Always wear protection". What is really needed is a great site on the facts and the risks of different activities, I don't know of one. Sure the CDC has information but it is not straight forward or easy to find. There is lots of information but it is more targeted at medical professionals. Does anyone know of a site for laymen that actually shows what the risks of different activities are?

I personally am just happy to know that if someone asks about it there are a lot of members who jump in to say how bad an idea that is. It is nice to see responsible mongering :-)

PIT

[Cruiser D]

First off, don't offer advice on STD's unless you are 101% sure. You can get HIV, Herp, Hep, HPV and a whole lot of interesting other things that start with an 'H' via mouth to mouth contact is any of it 100%? No. Is there a chance, yes. I'm not going to get into it. But if you want real information - not well, gee, I kinda remember hearing from a guy who said he was a doctor - or I remember from 8th Grade health ed - go to CDC.gov, the US Center for Disease and Control. Unless you are 101% sure stop spreading misinformation. It my comfort you and the rest of us involved in high risk sex but it really isn't helping anyone.

Apartment Agencies in Kiev are a huge case of YMMV. Most ask for a deposit of one night so that way if you don't show they aren't out the rent - seems fair to me and I never heard of anyone getting screwed over on this. There is no Silver Bullet agency in Kiev. No one is renting reasonably priced modern clean apartments in Kiev - even seasoned veterans (ie. ME) have a hard time finding something reasonable.

[Uke Boy]

Guys,

Get real now. This is Kiev, not New York, not London. And even there, and most other places, if they do not know you and you have not been a client, short term apartment rental agencies will more than likely ask for a deposit. That is nothing unusual. Unfortunately, here they do tend to be more predatory but that goes with the territory.

However, if you want modern, clean, spotless, neat, light, spotless and the best bathrooms, then I do suggest you stay at the Radisson, the Hyatt or one of the other top notch hotels.

If you want to pay for an apartment, then you will have to compromise on some or many issues while you are here.

This is Ukraine and not Kansas, Dorothy.

It sucks and so do many of the ladies you want to see. Live with it. That is the reason we are here.