Kyiv

[Riina]

Riina,

Few more aspects from your prior posts come to mind, thinking about Kozerog:

1. Staying fit, watching weight and appearance. Dress well, but do not overdo.

2. Being confident, but not arrogant.

3. Most importantly Kozerog is not bitter about cheaters and liars. Aware of the phenomenon for sure, but he doesn't mention it. He also doesn't make himself vulnerable, and avoids "vacuum cleaners" by not going to strip clubs and such.

Ukrainian girls have extremely well developed sense, almost like a military grade sonar, that helps them to detect:

- Is this guy stable and reliable? Is he trustworthy?

- Does he like me?

- Can he take care of my needs?

- Am I going to have good time with him?

- Is there a better alternative?

If the guy is insecure and needy, - forget it! Ukrainian girls can be your dedicated personal babysitters, but billing rate is rather high. Otherwise, see above.

Yes, agreed. Their's a lot of important details in Kozerog's reports that most readers will completely miss. I'd have to post a book here to share how they related to my own experiences.

[PhotoSlider]

Time is what you need in Kiev, not your height. Why can an older guy like Kozerog in his soviet apartment develop a relationship? Time and his wisdom as to how it all works.

Fly into Kiev on a short trip with your big ego and money, expect to leave telling yourself Ukrainians are scum of the earth.

Riina,

Few more aspects from your prior posts come to mind, thinking about Kozerog:

1. Staying fit, watching weight and appearance. Dress well, but do not overdo.

2. Being confident, but not arrogant.

3. Most importantly Kozerog is not bitter about cheaters and liars. Aware of the phenomenon for sure, but he doesn't mention it. He also doesn't make himself vulnerable, and avoids "vacuum cleaners" by not going to strip clubs and such.

Ukrainian girls have extremely well developed sense, almost like a military grade sonar, that helps them to detect:

- Is this guy stable and reliable? Is he trustworthy?

- Does he like me?

- Can he take care of my needs?

- Am I going to have good time with him?

- Is there a better alternative?

If the guy is insecure and needy, - forget it! Ukrainian girls can be your dedicated personal babysitters, but billing rate is rather high. Otherwise, see above.

[Riina]

Auaind, you just discovered Ukrainians are scammers. They have a street credit reputation that they hold dear over there. The only real way past it is to be tall. They have a thing for tall men that has the potential to treat them like trash. The worse a man treats them the more they enjoy him. Strange place, but it isn't worth hitting women in clubs. TheBar is an alright place as long as you get there early, but so is nearly every bar close to the main street in Kiev. Get there early and hit on them. You have to do your best to be affirmative if not, she will do her best to screw you over. Part of me always just gives them money because I feel bad. But I know how to play the game when it comes. Don't hit on girls going to bars hit on them on the street and look good, but not too much "pride". It may sound like blasphemous, but try to act like she is "smart" even if it isn't true.

Time is what you need in Kiev, not your height. Why can an older guy like Kozerog in his soviet apartment develop a relationship? Time and his wisdom as to how it all works.

Fly into Kiev on a short trip with your big ego and money, expect to leave telling yourself Ukrainians are scum of the earth.

[DramaFree11]

Spot-and re: firm and assertive. Unfortunately that doesn't come naturally to those of us brainwashed 24/7 in the west to be submissive to women so something that needs to be "learned" and hence needs a little time. Pretty sure a couple of weeks would be enough. Unfortunately together with the western brainwashing comes corporate slavery so we don't have the luxury of weeks. Such is life.

Good advise, but it will only work, if they like you. If they do not the games will continue and they will try to get as cash out of you as possible.

[CastOnThis]

Auaind, you just discovered Ukrainians are scammers. They have a street credit reputation that they hold dear over there. The only real way past it is to be tall. They have a thing for tall men that has the potential to treat them like trash. The worse a man treats them the more they enjoy him. Strange place, but it isn't worth hitting women in clubs. TheBar is an alright place as long as you get there early, but so is nearly every bar close to the main street in Kiev. Get there early and hit on them. You have to do your best to be affirmative if not, she will do her best to screw you over. Part of me always just gives them money because I feel bad. But I know how to play the game when it comes. Don't hit on girls going to bars hit on them on the street and look good, but not too much "pride". It may sound like blasphemous, but try to act like she is "smart" even if it isn't true.

[Auaind]

Auaind and TouringT. Two guys with short visits. Frank honest sufficiently detailed reports, and somewhat different results.

Both got laid though. Seems that Sveta on the 2nd try wasn't that bad of a deal: BBBJ, CIM and few hours for $100 with a good looking lady, I wouldn't mind that.

Cutting expenses and minimizing losses is indeed an art in Kiev. Be too accommodating and get milked. Be curt, and there's a risk of staying alone. Being firm and assertive helps to gain respect, but time is needed to establish diverse enough base for sufficient freedom of choice.

Big thanks to both gentlemen for informative feedback on current state of affairs.

100% Spot-and re: firm and assertive. Unfortunately that doesn't come naturally to those of us brainwashed 24/7 in the west to be submissive to women so something that needs to be "learned" and hence needs a little time. Pretty sure a couple of weeks would be enough. Unfortunately togther with the western brainwashing comes corporate slavery so we don't have the luxury of weeks. Such is life.

/ A.

[Curious12]

how much would 100 $ be in UAH?

2650-2700.

[PhotoSlider]

Auaind and TouringT. Two guys with short visits. Frank honest sufficiently detailed reports, and somewhat different results.

Both got laid though. Seems that Sveta on the 2nd try wasn't that bad of a deal: BBBJ, CIM and few hours for $100 with a good looking lady, I wouldn't mind that.

Cutting expenses and minimizing losses is indeed an art in Kiev. Be too accommodating and get milked. Be curt, and there's a risk of staying alone. Being firm and assertive helps to gain respect, but time is needed to establish diverse enough base for sufficient freedom of choice.

Big thanks to both gentlemen for informative feedback on current state of affairs.

Greetings Everyone.

*Warning long post*.

...snip...

I don't expect to be back in Kiev unless I have a reason to. And this time I'll stick to Carribean Club...

[Auaind]

Greetings Everyone.

*Warning long post*.

It feels like an age since I've posted anything (probably years) but that's probably more down to me sticking to my tried-and-tested destinations (Dubai. East Africa, Thailand) and there's no shortage of information on those places.

So I find myself with some spare time (and airmiles) over the weekend and decided go somewhere different. After a bit of research (a couple of beers chatting to some mates at the pub) I'm convinced to try Ukraine. Land of impossibly beautiful women. Suppliers to the brothels of the world including my beloved Dubai!! Why not go to the source? What could go wrong?

Ok so it's onto ISG for some information and I'm surprised at how little useful data there is to be found. For me, having been pursuing this hobby for 25+ years, that only means one of two things- there's so much easily available p*ssy (eg Kenya) around that there's really no need to exchange info OR the place is comatose and / or ridiculously expensive (Delhi). Most of the stuff I see on active forums like thailand and dubai is a lot of noise and very little signal- mostly insiders bantering with each other and telling newbies to "RTFF" instead of helping out.

Kiev is in a league of its own. Overall not great but I think it may have been just been me and my first Eastern European experience. I dunno.

Day 1:

Land late evening and get quick Taxi to city center (UAH 500 - like $20) after a big of haggling. By the way airport exchange rate sucks better to us an ATM for your first batch of local currency. The hotel I booked was Aloft Kiev. A starwood property so quite decent. Seemingly perfect location and walking distance to many bars and "entertainment areas". Ie Arena. I didn't want to go into any of the strip clubs as my experience with them in Europe is generally not good, and I can't afford to have a tinder profile (too risky) so I thought I'd pick up women the old fashioned way and really the only way I know how: From Hooker bars. Online reseach told me they're many of those but the ISG forum doesn't talk about them much. Now I know why.

First stop- a recommendation from a friend- Bratislava Hotel- a 20 min Uber ride away. The hotel has small strip club / cabaret in the back which is just a front for a bunch of hookers. My kind of place! My original plan was to do a a quick bang and hed to a club and pick up a freelancer. Got there around 11 pm and it's completely dead. One tiny stage and a stripper pole surrounded by sofas. No customers. Two girls playing with their phones in the bar area looking very bored. No even music. One tall leggy blonde (Sveta- MILF) comes up to me and asks if I want strip show. 200 UAH. OK. I pay. The music and tacky disco lights turn on- and she gets on the stage. Her dance was Ok. She takes her top off comes over and rubs her chest in my face. "you want private dance"? Ok I know where this is going. 600 UAH. Maybe later-I want to see more girls. One by one they all come out and it's the same routine- lame dancing and then an offer for "private". About 8 or 9 girls come through- ranging in looks from 4 to a maximum maybe 6 or 7. Sveta was maybe a 5/6. Finally I decide to try the "private show" and she ushers me into a small room on the side. Probably the worst "lap dance" I've ever spend money on but by now I'm horny as hell because I've just spend the last half hour watching naked women gyrate in front of me. Albeit without much enthusiasm. At the end she asks me if I want sexy massage. $100. But I have to get a room in the hotel. Another $50. Alrighty then.

I head to the reception and ask for a room- elicts a wry smile from the receptionist fat mamma. Whatever. I have no shame. I give Sveta the room number and head up. After a few minutes she's up at the room and we begin. Quick shower, her body looks nicer than I remember downstairs. CBJ. Not particularly good one by the way, DATY. She stayed a bit dry despite my valiant tongue efforts and for me that's a bit of a turn off. No lube available either. She was very tight too- usually a good thing with lube. Without its awful. So I just told her to finish me off with her hands using some bathroom-amenity lotion.

I paid, took her number just for the heck of it, and left. Didn't realize it was way past 2 am by now and I'm tired. Decide to call it a night and head back to the hotel.

Summary- Hotel Bratislava.

Girls - 5/10.

Strip Show - 1/10.

Service - 5/10.

WIR- Not unless desparate. Little would I know.

Day 2:

A friend texts me a number of a semi pro (Julia) he met on tinder- "Try her- she was good to me". Ok. I whatsapp her and she replies. The usual banter. She's free at 7 and can meet me for dinner and we can go partying later. Ok, I think, I'll hit the clubs on my own later if this doesn't work out. I generally really like semi pros and everywhere that I have managed to meet one the experience has usually been excellent. GFE. Good, lowish-cost sex and a free tour guide to boot. I'm excited now and turn up at the the restaurant she chose. Boy was she was stunning! Way hotter than her whatsapp profile pic. Typical Ukranian model 9/10 hard body, beautiful face and dressed to kill in a tiny minidress. Did the usual dinner and chit-chat and she suggests we go for a drink at Arena City. I've heard about this place. Couple of high end (read: expensive) strip clubs, a few bars and some restaurants. Walkng distance- we go up to "THE BAR" which sits right about "THE BURGER" burger joint. Not very creative with names these Ukranians! Inside it has surprisingly cool vibe and about 12-14 seriously hot women in pairs sitting alone at the central bar area. A grand total of 2 guys including me. Fantastic ratios. So I casually ask Julia if these are "normal" girls or "working". She replies that they're looking for foreigners. Wow. My kind of place. And they're all giving me the international standard body-language- eye contact and looks of "hey I'm avaiable want to talk? Or so I thought. I guess Ukrainan body language is different from everywher else. So anyway I'm in this awesome bar with good music and my hottie and we're drinking and laughing and having a great time. Everything going swimmingly. Apparently. Around 2 am I'm about ready to leave and she's like I also have to go I work tomorrow. Come back to my hotel? No sorry I live 45 km from Kiev. Fuck. I feel like an idiot. By now the bar is packed and the ratio is more like 50-50 men / women which is never a good thing. I walk her outside to the taxis and send her off. Damn. Well there's still more pickings at the bar right? Wrong. Every single one of the girls in there were downright rude or dismissive when I approached. I thought maybe this was due to the fact that I had someone with me earlier so that put them off. Yeah right. So after an hour of trying I'm ready to give up and start to walk out down the stairs when pretty young thing (Marina) in a tiny black dress stops me - "Where you go? "Home"? "Lets go club". OK!! Don't have to ask twice! I can't help staring at her body- unbelievably sexy. Probably the best I've seen all night and that's saying something. So clearly am excited now. We take a taxi to a place called Dali club and I have to pay entrance 300 UAH but she gets in free. Cool. Inside it's a typical nightclub- overcrowded and noisy as hell. We go to the bar on the slightly quieter side to order a couple of drinks and exchange numbers. She disappears onto the dance floor and comes back a few minutes later. "I have to Work tomorrow you give momey for taxi- 200 UAH"? WTF? I decide to hang around the bar a bit more while she disappears again into the crowd. She doesn't come back. OK then. I approach some single-looking women as an experiment but again they snarl me away. Woah! Ok! I need to work on my approach maybe? Meanwhile Marina still hasn't gone home she's with some dudes on a private table.

Whatever.

Fed up now I take the taxi back to the hotel. Too frustrated to even jerk off.

Day 3- My last day.

Resove to NOT to waste time like the past two days and go straight to the hooker bars. Either "Carribean " or "Shooters". Online recommendations. Lots of girls easy to pick up. Good.

In the morning I get a text from Julia. Thanks for last night. I reply if I can see her again today and she says "I'll let you know". Universal womenspeak for "no". Not even sure why I asked. What was I expecting after last night? I really can be an idiot sometimes.

Around noon behold I get a text from Marina- what you doing today? Want to meet this afteroon? Umm ok. Again despite my instict telling me to STAY THE FUCK AWAY I agreed. I've made better judgement calls. 3 pm. Arena. Vapiano- italian restaurant. Very good by the way but this isn't a food blog.

I arrive a little early and order some food. The place is full of single women. I'm wondering if they're available or what? Didn't get a chance to find out as Marina shows up looking every bit as stunning as the night before- but this time in a short pink miniskirt and blazer to match. Woweee. We talk for a bit and I ask her if we can go back to the hotel. She says later- first have to go pick something up from the mall (Gulliver). Want to come? Ok. The mall's right next door to the hotel right. No problem. She does a bit of make up shopping (she pays) After following her ass aroud a couple of stores she says "Hey have you watched this movie about Pablo Escobar? I'd really like to see. Can we watch?" Ok why not it's still early. Might even get some fondling in the dark I think and pay for the tickets. In hindsight I should have cut it short right there but she was looking so so hot and we were sooo close to the hotel. Anyway there was no fondling of any kind to be had in the movie. Her body positioning didn't let that happen. Oh well. Right after I suggest again if we can go to hotel. "No my friends just message me they're coming lets have drink" then after. Alrighty then. So we sit at some outdoor cafe bar place just outside the mall. Friends show up. Equally hot. Now I'm surrounded by 3 amazingly beautiful women! I should be able to get at least ONE, right? Buying the drinks of course. Very cheap though so I'm not bothered. Somehow the discussion turns into "lets go clubbing from here" Its 1 am (by now there's no way she's coming to my room. I've been cockblocked! Dammit. Against my better judgement AGAIN I agree thinking that I'll be able to take her (or one of her friends) home with me at the end of the night. So I make it clear: "After Club- we come back to hotel, Ok?" "Ok" she sincerely agrees. "You not run away?" "No. I not run away- I come with you. " she replies and grabs my hand. Ok. I guess "not run away" means something else in Ukranian.

Back to Dali club of all places. Again 300 UAH entrance once past the refrigerator sized doormen. This club is full of 10/10 women and is huge. We head to the bar, get a round of drinks. I can't believe how cheap alcohol is here but I digress. 20 min later she says "I go dance with my friends ok?" OK. Disappears for at least 30 min. In retrospect after 15 min I should have realized that she (they?) had ditched me but hey I'm a sucker. I'm still surrounded by other random hot women so all is not lost I think. I start to make a few approaches. Again- dismissive snarls. Every. Single. One. WTF! I noticed other guys doing it too getting the same treatment. And these dudes appeared way better heeled, better dressed, younger and far far better looking than me. Something didn't seem right.

Anyhoo.

Wandered around the club for a while and hey presto Marina and her friends at some dude and his gang's table drinking their whiskey. Pretending they don't see me. Or maybe they really don't I dunno. Ok. Time to leave. Its 2. 30 am now and I don't have much time. After being rebuffed by every girl I approached I really didn't believe I'd have better luck at the other clubs so decided not to go that route.

In the taxi I remembered that I had Sveta's number- Whatsapp: what you doing? Nothing just leaving work. Come to my hotel? Ok. Wow that was easy! We arrive at roughly the same time. Straight up to the room- security and reception don't even bat an eyelid.

Clothes off- a much better session than the previous day although the dryness issue was still there but she did give me a BBBJ and let me finish in her mouth so that was bonus. Another $100. She stayed for a couple hours but I had to get rid of her as I had to get some sleep before heading to the airport at noon. She didn't seem in a hurry to leave and I'm sure I she would have stayed longer if I wanted.

So in conclusion- I'm not sure about Kiev. The "gentlemen clubs" are notoriously expensive but I hear you can take-out for $300 (yes dollars) for a COUPLE OF HOURS. No thanks. I don't like using escort sites in non-western countries for obvious reasons and I don't use tinder. My friend's semi pro recommendation didn't work out either.

I was hoping to find freelancers. Apparently they're available but I wasn't able to get anything but then I did get severely distracted by the scamming semi-pros.

Beautiful women are everywhere. Maybe tinder is the way to go? I don't know. I also think I fell into the semi-pro trap but that's' just a soft spot for me. I'm not blaming the place or the women. Maybe I need to work on my approach with the freelancers. The usual "Hi. Are you alone / can I get you a drink / do you mind if I join you / etc" gambit doesn't seem to pay off everywhere- perhaps only in the "Specialized clubs".

I don't expect to be back in Kiev unless I have a reason to. And this time I'll stick to Carribean Club. Even an old dog like me needs to be taught a lesson once in a while!!

Peace out!

/ A.

[BillV90]

Hello,

I just wanted to contribute after reading carefully 30+ pages of the forum posts and visiting Kiev. I realize a lot of members here were depending on GIA. I never personally used it. I came to Kiev unsure if I'd pick anyone up. A lot of posts seemed to suggest it could be quite complicated and I was only visiting briefly. Honestly, I found things fairly straightforward. I accidentally came across Carribean Cafe while searching for live music venues. The reviews made it clear that this was a pickup spot and some forum members confirmed this when I asked. I'm surprised it doesn't come up more here. Entry to the club was fairly reasonable. I can't recall specifically how much. The drink prices are also quite reasonable once you're inside. It's literally packed with working girls dancing and open to being approached. Reminded me a bit of 49 ers in Abu Dhabi but bigger and nicer. It has the advantage of Rio in that you can see and meet the girl in advance before deciding. You can discuss the details of time, services and fee and if you agree head off. I met a cute young Ukrainian (early to mid 20's) who agreed to come home with me for 3+ hours for $150 which is honestly a bargain. She refuses to offer BBBJ but otherwise services were good. She was friendly pleasant, spoke English well, had a nice tight body and despite the cover gave nice head. I was falling asleep at some point and sent her home a bit early but she didn't push to leave early at any point in the evening. There were some really stunning women in the club and some who I wouldn't sleep with if they paid me but overall it should be easy to find someone to enjoy an evening with and I imagine most would be willing to come home with you for an evening for $150-200. Also if you'd like you can also pick up someone and make an evening of it dancing at the club before going home. Personally, I prefer to agree and head home but to each their own..

I like the post, great one!

I like those kind of cafe places and I can imagine there is a great vibe. I've also read for quite some time here in the Kiev forum, Many oppose to negotiate in US dollar, better to talk in UAH, how much would 100 $ be in UAH? I'm going to check the massage place up on the website.

Once again great post.

[Michi T]

Mitch,

I'll be there on the 26th. If you're still there, we should catch up.

Yes, will be there 23-26 June. Send me private message to arrange.

[TouringT]

Hello,

I just wanted to contribute after reading carefully 30+ pages of the forum posts and visiting Kiev. I realize a lot of members here were depending on GIA. I never personally used it. I came to Kiev unsure if I'd pick anyone up. A lot of posts seemed to suggest it could be quite complicated and I was only visiting briefly. Honestly, I found things fairly straightforward. I accidentally came across Carribean Cafe while searching for live music venues. The reviews made it clear that this was a pickup spot and some forum members confirmed this when I asked. I'm surprised it doesn't come up more here. Entry to the club was fairly reasonable. I can't recall specifically how much. The drink prices are also quite reasonable once you're inside. It's literally packed with working girls dancing and open to being approached. Reminded me a bit of 49 ers in Abu Dhabi but bigger and nicer. It has the advantage of Rio in that you can see and meet the girl in advance before deciding. You can discuss the details of time, services and fee and if you agree head off. I met a cute young Ukrainian (early to mid 20's) who agreed to come home with me for 3+ hours for $150 which is honestly a bargain. She refuses to offer BBBJ but otherwise services were good. She was friendly pleasant, spoke English well, had a nice tight body and despite the cover gave nice head. I was falling asleep at some point and sent her home a bit early but she didn't push to leave early at any point in the evening. There were some really stunning women in the club and some who I wouldn't sleep with if they paid me but overall it should be easy to find someone to enjoy an evening with and I imagine most would be willing to come home with you for an evening for $150-200. Also if you'd like you can also pick up someone and make an evening of it dancing at the club before going home. Personally, I prefer to agree and head home but to each their own.

My other stop was the Moulin Rouge massage parlor. Their website lays out all the pricing and they are very responsive on online chats. Make sure you decide on which massage you like, what's included and the price before you arrive because at first the madame tried to up the prices until I reminded her what was written on the website. Upon arriving I saw a lineup of at least 7 or 8 ladies. I went with a cute petite one who gave me a HJ at the beginning and end of the session. She was very friendly as well, knew what she was doing and while massaging me put her behind right in my face in the most amazing way imaginable.

[Masha1104]

Found the following websites:

relaxkiev.com

https://relaxportal.biz/eng/

Are they good.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

90% profiles are fake on this site.

If same number on several profiles. Its agency.

They'll write like they independent, send fake pics but only 5-10% of that all really independent.

[Tinny2000]

Found the following websites:

relaxkiev.com

https://relaxportal.biz/eng/

Are they good.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

[RedFork]

Mamba turns out to be bullshit working girl girl website!

I spent hours and hours preparing for my 23 June trip to Kiev. Often it sounded good but eventually, all girls started about money. Some want 200 EUR a night, some 1000 EUR a week, etc. PLUS, needless to say, they expect you to invite them to expensive restaurants and expensive food / drink, shopping, mini bar, taxi etc. Finaally, 200 EUR per night will easily become 400 EUR.

Another scam I came accross: some beautiful top girls imnediately agreed to meet. But the never want to call on video phone. Always next day. Or some addressed me with "my dear". That is typically for Nigeria/Ghana scam!

For me, nooooo! Nada such thing! I will go again good old way, walking around talk to girls in park, beach, river, restuaant Who wants to join me?

Mitch,

I'll be there on the 26th. If you're still there, we should catch up.