Kyiv

[AntonySun1996]

As they say in legal proceedings:

-No objection, your honour!

You and I are different, Antony. Doesn't mean one of us is right and the other is wrong.

Please allow me to ask the next logical question:

How would your rate a Rio girl with 9 or 10 face and body that later in your room gave 3 attitude and service? And these BTW aren't all the factors affecting my rating decision, but we can keep it simple for the sake of clarity.

I would give her no higher than 3, meaning that for mating with rating 1 I would need to be forced physically. Hopefully Rio attitude can be assessed before it's too late..

I certainly respect your way of rating girls.

To answer your question:

To me services and attitudes are more like dissatisfiers rather than satisfiers.

If a girl with 10 face and body gave me service or attitudes that are terrible enough to physically interrupt sex, or make me feel pain, I will of course not rate her as 9 or 10. However, this rarely happens. I would not consider not being talkative or having a cold face as this level of bad service or attitude.

Meanwhile, if a girl with 5 face and 5 body gives me 10 service with full passion, would I rate her 9 or 10? No, not even 6. Good service and attitudes do little help to make me more horny.

Besides, in my opinion, service and attitudes are, in essence, matters of money. You can buy better service and attitudes from a girl by tipping her, but can you buy a prettier face or hotter body from her with money? When rating a girl I prefer to focus on the girl herself and put the money-related factors aside.

[PhotoSlider]

the literal definition of a 7 (based on a scale of 1-10) is something well above average. 7's are hot as fuck in my opinion and will 95% of the time give better service than the best looking girls who think their shit smells like roses.

To be precise it is 95.4% if we are talking two sigma)).

7's are lot of fun indeed! That is also why I have a thing for slightly overweight ladies. They are out-competed in Kiev, and so sincerely thankful. At the same time there is nothing wrong with well-mannered toll slim and scantily clad dolls as long as they behave appropriately.

The rating scale is also 100% irrelevant. Your 7 may be another man's 10.

Exactly my point. I once half-jokingly attempted to introduce multi-dimensional metric for assessing girls quality. Thought about creating a conversion matrix to take such statistical characteristics vector of an average western woman and transform it into a girl from Ipanema in Rio, or Cocal in Costa Rica, or Avalon in Kiev.

Quickly understood it was an exercise in futility, and would be too difficult to normalize the ranges and calibrate the measurements. Too much diversity in those places we consider worthwhile. Better enjoy as it befalls.

[Visal]

I want to book a room in a hotel or in apartment for 14 days. The issue in my head is that the hotel or apartment should allow the prostitutes or girls to enter my room.

Can you guys let me know which apartment you booked and allows the girls to visit?

I read page 11 to 1 but I need more time tomorrow to read further, just thought that I should post my question here today to expect an answer tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

[PhotoSlider]

...And PhotoSlider, I totally agree that good service and attitudes can make a girl more attractive and make you more satisfied, but if a girl has a 6 face, 6 body, and 10 attitudes and service, I personally wouldn't rate her as 9 or 10. Probably 6+.

As they say in legal proceedings:

-No objection, your honour!

You and I are different, Antony. Doesn't mean one of us is right and the other is wrong.

Please allow me to ask the next logical question:

How would your rate a Rio girl with 9 or 10 face and body that later in your room gave 3 attitude and service? And these BTW aren't all the factors affecting my rating decision, but we can keep it simple for the sake of clarity.

I would give her no higher than 3, meaning that for mating with rating 1 I would need to be forced physically. Hopefully Rio attitude can be assessed before it's too late.

In 2014 I had Albina from Mandarin / Rio. She looked 9, was 10 in bed, and decided to shorten my time because it was only 1 am. The usual Rio story, nothing new. She was mostly silent otherwise, not much of a conversation. I saw her again at Rio in 2015, chose different sweetie that just arrived to Kiev from a small village.

Now in a hindsight I rate Albina as 5 or 6, and would not repeat because she lacked creativity. No chance staying with her long term or taking her out for the night on the town.

Proverbial beauty is in the eye of beholder, so is the rating.

[Tomek123]

Agree on everything you said, Volpone. With the following remarks:

My 9's and 10's might be quite a bit different from what is important to typical mongers. With all due respect to contributors and veterans..

Yes, I absolutely agree. First, foreigners have long lost this romantic halo and image as it was 10 years ago. Let's remember 2005 or 2006, when all the hotels were shaking from the creaking of the bed and shouting in the style of Pierre Woodman. We all remember this time well when a fat guy from Canada, a small clerk in Toronto, fucked Pierre Woodman as a Ukrainian beauty and three hours later he finished another 20-year-old in her mouth.

And Ukrainian young chickens did blowjob without a condom just to impress and often swallowed sperm.

Western Europe after that became much closer. The girls also saw that among the foreigners there are also many idiots and boors. Dirty and vulgar types. Stupid and limited, who in their entire life have not read a single book. Many girls were deceived by sex tourists. Many guys here on the forum wrote about this. More than that the Ukrainian girl is not a Colombian or Brazilian girl. For a Ukrainian girl to take in her mouth a male dick for the money this in itself is some stress and a test. Especially since when she sucks our dick she usually has a boyfriend and often she loves him.

Our friend and colleague Jymondor he wrote about it. This is not a Brazilian girl from slums and favelas, for which to take a cock in her mouth is like eating a candy or ice cream. Or a hot dog. Of course, a lot of girls like in Brazil. For example, many schoolgirls after school suck cock in a car for little money. In Ukraine. Even being virgins. This is a common phenomenon. But still Ukraine is not a country of favelas.

If you are Ukrainian and have 3-5 thousand dollars a month, then of course you will have a lot more beautiful young ladies in your bed than a similar guy from Berlin. Ideal option for sex tourism if you live in Europe but once came from The USSR and you know the language and know how to speak and read in Russian and can establish contacts. This is an ideal option. But if it is written on your face that you are not a Slav, and have come from the West, then of course the girls will set much stricter conditions for you. If you are a local cheerful guy 35-40 years old then you will not have problems finding hot pussy or mouth. In such a city as Sumy or Poltava you can find a beautiful pussy 22 years for 800-900 hryvnia. Or for 1200. No if you are a foreigner then how and where can you find this pussy? Many guys from the US want to go to Poltava? Of course not, they can only come to Kiev. And Kiev is completely different prices and conditions. Add to this the fact that 99% of guys from the US or Europe can not and will not practice street games or dating in other places, and they simply can not approach an unfamiliar girl on the street, because this is a huge stress for a Westerner, this is not accepted in the West and can even have bad consequences and problems with the law. And a local guy with money can go to a beautiful girl on the street and take her phone. And of course the Ukrainian guy will always have such advantages.

If you are interested in the conditions for local guys in the province. Not in Kiev. Then this girl in black takes 1500 hryvnia for a date. And this girl in red-marina 22 years-900 hryvnia for 3-4 h. This is the city of Sumy. 5 hours from Kiev. (Good pussy and good blowjob but horribly vulgar girls.

[Member #4722]

Sorry, I have to disagree with your post again. There are very few 8, 9' or 10's, and you sure hell are not going to meet them at on-line, Rio or Gia. Maybe 7 and occasional 8. I do not know why you post this stuff, it is just not true.

Nothing wrong with a 7. Most of the women I have fucked in my life are 7's and the literal definition of a 7 (based on a scale of 1-10) is something well above average. 7's are hot as fuck in my opinion and will 95% of the time give better service than the best looking girls who think their shit smells like roses.

The rating scale is also 100% irrelevant. Your 7 may be another man's 10. So when you come in here constantly clogging the forum with the same message it is annoying. I see you post in the Tijuana forum a lot, maybe you are more into Latina women? You seem to travel a lot to Kiev even though you don't like it since you know so much about the city. But I never see any actual reports from you only hearsay. Why do you travel here so much if it's so horrible?

[AntonySun1996]

This has been discussed over many years at this Forum.

What is the invariant criteria for the girl to be rated as 9 or 10?

Is it her looks? Her attitude? The range of her options? Height to weight ratio? Price per hour? Her shoes? Lingerie? Makeup or lack thereof? Fashion style? IPhone model?

For me it is girl's ability to make and keep me happy achieved though so many facets and details.

During last visit I would rate at least 5 girls at no less than 9. And I state this not out of vanity, not for bragging rights. They were gorgeous because each one of them took me straight to heaven.

Did any of Kiev Forum naysayers hold a candle next to the bed at the time to dismiss my "claim to fame"? No. Am I a liar? I don't think so. But I am certainly not indifferent to females in general, and to young Ukrainian ladies in particular.

I would go even further in stating that for many if not most foreign visitors Kiev mongering scene may not be satisfactory. Definitely not as easy as it was in 2003-2008 that Antony quotes above.

While service and attitudes are important to me, I would not regard them as primary criteria when rating girls.

If service and attitudes are enough to keep me satisfied, I can just find a girlfriend in my hometown without the need to pay a penny. So why do I bother to visit Ukraine? I come here for good-looking girls with hot bodies.

And PhotoSlider, I totally agree that good service and attitudes can make a girl more attractive and make you more satisfied, but if a girl has a 6 face, 6 body, and 10 attitudes and service, I personally wouldn't rate her as 9 or 10. Probably 6+.

[PhotoSlider]

Top notch girls know exactly how much money they get abroad selling their bodies, they are not going to sell their body in Kiev for 2-3000 UAH for 1 hour.

Times has changed and we have to accept that. You can still find pretty average girls in Kiev ( mostly from 6 to 8 quality), get a good service, but it's not easy as it used to be. Lots of work is required as some members have already explained here.

Agree on everything you said, Volpone. With the following remarks:

My 9's and 10's might be quite a bit different from what is important to typical mongers. With all due respect to contributors and veterans.

Roughly in the order of significance for myself (with some redundancy):

1. Personality and attitude.

2. IQ and cultural level (part of the personality I guess).

3. Skin, smell and hygiene in general.

4. Class and Style. The way she behaves even without saying anything, her taste in clothes, etc.

5. Must enjoy what she's doing in bed (part of attitude).

6. Creativity. In all aspects. I shouldn't be bored wherever we are.

7. Responsiveness, openness without imposition and sucking energy out of me. Mutual energy exchange is not a problem at all.

Certainly looks are important, but not critical. I had great 1 m55 GNDs. Had sweet and shy considerably overweight 19 years old Solfeggio teacher from Kramatorsk and would love to see her again. I also had terrible 1 m75-1 m80 model types turning into minus 273 Celsius ice statues. I did have young ladies of exceptional inner and outer beauty for $50 because they were in need and didn't realize their actual value. To me attitude obviously means so much more than looks. Yes, occasionally I had to drink to make some of the girls more attractive, but not lately. I do not hunt for hot bodies, never really did. Different approach. That's why I tend to agree with Jymondor's assessment of GIA girls quality. That is why I find attractive no more than 1 in 10 girls in Rio strip club, and not because of higher cost. I still enjoy my visits there, and am picky but maybe for different reasons.

Some girls get extra points for how they hold themselves while we are in theater or at the concert, some are great to get drunk together at a restaurant, some are the best in bed and only in bed.

One of those I found in San Jose, Costa Rica in 2013, University Law student. She was counting her orgasms in Spanish: uno dos tres cuatro cinco seis siete. Her eyes shone in her own surprise, and I chose to believe.

Those students that decided to study need money. Yes, In Ukraine some students do not study at all, and buy their diplomas by traveling for money, some study and make ends meet locally.

For foreigners game in Kiev is either over or rules have changed significantly and not in their favor.

Yes those 9's and 10's are rare finds, but they still exist in the Wild Nature. Yes it means time invested, but not wasted. Yes, it's the same more or less around the globe. For native Spanish speakers it is easier in Medellin, for local Brazilians there's home advantage on play-field in Rio-de-Janeiro and so on.

My posts are definitely less valuable than reports by Jymondor. Suppose it's still ok to have a friendly discussion.

[Volpone]

This has been discussed over many years at this Forum.

What is the invariant criteria for the girl to be rated as 9 or 10?

Is it her looks? Her attitude? The range of her options? Height to weight ratio? Price per hour? Her shoes? Lingerie? Makeup or lack thereof? Fashion style? IPhone model?

For me it is girl's ability to make and keep me happy achieved though so many facets and details.

During last visit I would rate at least 5 girls at no less than 9. And I state this not out of vanity, not for bragging rights. They were gorgeous because each one of them took me straight to heaven.

Did any of Kiev Forum naysayers hold a candle next to the bed at the time to dismiss my "claim to fame"? No. Am I a liar? I don't think so. But I am certainly not indifferent to females in general, and to young Ukrainian ladies in particular.

I would go even further in stating that for many if not most foreign visitors Kiev mongering scene may not be satisfactory. Definitely not as easy as it was in 2003-2008 that Antony quotes above.

You are right when you talk about services that you can get a mark of 9 or 10, at least a few times, I agree with that. However I get these marks in many other countries of the world I visited for our hobby, that has nothing to do with Ukraine. You can get bad, average and good services in Ukraine like in every other country.

However to get a 9 or a 10 beauty quality, it's harder and harder now. It might happen, but she must be really in need of money, what is rarely the case. Really good looking girls don't really need foreigners anymore. They can just get helped by their UKRAINIAN boyfriends or sponsors, quite many of them are quite wealthy. Furthermore culturally is better for them. They feel closer to UKRAINIAN men than foreigners.

Moreover it's easy for them now to find a sponsor abroad or to work abroad and to get more money than in Ukraine. They don't wait for us to get peanuts. Top notch girls know exactly how much money they get abroad selling their bodies, they are not going to sell their body in Kiev for 2-3000 UAH for 1 hour.

Times has changed and we have to accept that. You can still find pretty average girls in Kiev ( mostly from 6 to 8 quality), get a good service, but it's not easy as it used to be. Lots of work is required as some members have already explained here.

[DramaFree11]

Sorry, I have to disagree with your post again. There are very few 8, 9' or 10's, and you sure hell are not going to meet them at on-line, Rio or Gia. Maybe 7 and occasional 8. I do not know why you post this stuff, it is just not true.

This has been discussed over many years at this Forum.

What is the invariant criteria for the girl to be rated as 9 or 10?

Is it her looks? Her attitude? The range of her options? Height to weight ratio? Price per hour? Her shoes? Lingerie? Makeup or lack thereof? Fashion style? IPhone model?

For me it is girl's ability to make and keep me happy achieved though so many facets and details.

During last visit I would rate at least 5 girls at no less than 9. And I state this not out of vanity, not for bragging rights. They were gorgeous because each one of them took me straight to heaven.

Did any of Kiev Forum naysayers hold a candle next to the bed at the time to dismiss my "claim to fame"? No. Am I a liar? I don't think so. But I am certainly not indifferent to females in general, and to young Ukrainian ladies in particular.

I would go even further in stating that for many if not most foreign visitors Kiev mongering scene may not be satisfactory. Definitely not as easy as it was in 2003-2008 that Antony quotes above.

[PhotoSlider]

So where have the 9's and 10's gone after River Palace was shut down?

This has been discussed over many years at this Forum.

What is the invariant criteria for the girl to be rated as 9 or 10?

Is it her looks? Her attitude? The range of her options? Height to weight ratio? Price per hour? Her shoes? Lingerie? Makeup or lack thereof? Fashion style? IPhone model?

For me it is girl's ability to make and keep me happy achieved though so many facets and details.

During last visit I would rate at least 5 girls at no less than 9. And I state this not out of vanity, not for bragging rights. They were gorgeous because each one of them took me straight to heaven.

Did any of Kiev Forum naysayers hold a candle next to the bed at the time to dismiss my "claim to fame"? No. Am I a liar? I don't think so. But I am certainly not indifferent to females in general, and to young Ukrainian ladies in particular.

I would go even further in stating that for many if not most foreign visitors Kiev mongering scene may not be satisfactory. Definitely not as easy as it was in 2003-2008 that Antony quotes above.

[Kesroe]

I remember some members in this forum have done the similar thing in the states or Canada or wherever. Does anyone have any ideas on how to find Ukrainian girls in the UK to be my sugar baby? How would you discover the potential ones and how would you talk about the deal? I would prefer uni students. I suppose there must be some Ukrainian students that need the money to pay their tuition fees, rentals, etc. By the way I'd also like to learn if there would be legal concerns about this in UK. Any advice would be appreciated.

What about some specialised services for it? I recommend you to take a look at the service from "Secret Benefits" for this purpose. It is a great website with nice and hot girls. I think you will find something for you there too.

[PhotoSlider]

....All in all, it was an exciting venue. Not cheap, but I got what I wanted and even more. I did not even try to find semi-pro on Mamba or Vkontakte. I prefer the shortest way: one call, one girl with no disappointments and unpleasant surprises.

It seems that my next venue will be based on GIA as well, but I will try some indys using reviews on local review board.

Veni, Vidi, Vici! As Julius Cesar once said:

- I came, I saw, I conquered.

Seriously doubt it could have been any cheaper with these requirements: reliable source, eliminate unpleasant surprise, ensure versatile and willing providers, resulting in repeatedly happy and exhilarated customer. Going with any other Kiev agency charging by the hour would not match neither in price, and definitely nor in service quality.

What was the key for success? IMHO: realistic expectations, adequate research prior to deployment, sufficient funds for a week of festivities, and decent degree of respect towards providers. On the latter aspect it certainly demonstrates assortment effect in all its glory.

One of the most informative and objective reports in a while.

Wish I was there! September 2016 I did 7 GIA girls with a herd of indies. Unforgettable. Rinse, repeat.

[AntonySun1996]

Goldfinger - Not so easy to find english speaking girls in Kiev but girls are really more friendly than Letonian ones as they really want to try to communicate ( ie in Mc Donalds, in shops or on the main street called Krashatik ).

But you will find for sure english speaking girls in River Palace, Moda Bar... Never pay more than 100 USD for 2-3 hours even if some 9's or 10's will try to charge you 200 USD per hour... Just send her away, there are so many good looking girls available each night...

So where have the 9's and 10's gone after River Palace was shut down?

[AntonySun1996]

Depends who you are. I have no idea why a college age guy like you Anthony would be in Kiev without a legitimate business reason. But for grown up guys with no interest to work and just want to enjoy life, Kiev can be awesome with all the fun to be had.

I like to visit Kiev to escape from boring uni life. Kiev is definitely a great city, but after a couple of visits, I feel the city is rather dull except for the girls. But I will explore and try to appreciate the city's attracting attributes in future for sure.