Kyiv

[Muddy7]

Briefly, in my opinion, an airport bus is preferable to a taxi, an apartment is better to a hotel, and the much talked about Rio is too expensive. If I were willing to pay 300 USD, I would just stay at home.

Rio is so overrated, a money burner, most dancers there don't give you bare blow job, and if you don't mention $300 for 2 hours they will leave much sooner so they can return to the club and resume work, stay away.

[Muddy7]

Interesting report, Tomek! I enjoyed reading it. I live in Kyiv and avoid clubs like the plague, but it's interesting to hear what's happening there. I do like 'Sorry Babushka' but not to meet working girls, rather to meet regular Kyiv women to date. Haven't been there in ages, though.

You said "For crying out loud, do not pay so much. One thousand UAH is already more than double the local price. Two thousand ought to be more than enough for anyone. " and in general I agree. However, keep in mind Kyiv is an expensive city for Ukrainians and often you get what you pay for. You can find pussy for 1000 UAH but the quality is rarely very good. Conversely, for 2000 you can get something that looks good but has a bad attitude..

It all depends on the girl, if you pick a girl who looks like a crow then yes 1000 is enough, LOL.

[BobSmith1]

Seriously many many thanks to Stevie69. That was 1 great report with years of experiences condensed into 1 such detailed report cover so many different aspects. I will be in Kiev, Kharkov and Poltave for about 3 months. I will try all their colleges because I'm still relatively young and look like college student.

[Gopnik]

Dear fellow mongers,

I am glad to inform you that Turkish people can now visit Ukraine without passport (only with national identity is enough).

By the way, EU also opened the doors for UA citizen.

The above 2 developments will make the competition harder.

Good luck.

I don't think it will have that much of an affect in the foreseeable future. The former is of almost no consequence. It's still a form of ID that requires government approval to acquire. The latter doesn't change who will be actually visiting Ukraine and spending money, at least. Sure, Ukrainians can go abroad a little easier but all it really means is that instead of Egypt or Turkey or some other visa free travel destination, they will spend their money in a European country. It certainly won't give Ukrainians more money to travel, which most can't afford to do anyway. The real benefit is that one can invite a Ukrainian chick on a holiday in Europe and not have to worry about the paperwork and visa hassle, which is what I will be doing.

[EnricoMacias]

Dear fellow mongers,

I am glad to inform you that Turkish people can now visit Ukraine without passport (only with national identity is enough).

By the way, EU also opened the doors for UA citizen.

The above 2 developments will make the competition harder.

Good luck.

[FilancaNow]

Thanks for your input Luis and Bliss! Appreciated!

[Jonathan Pine]

Super job, Stevie69, possibly the best report here I've ever read!

It's very useful to know how to approach and proposition girls. And I agree that the price for 1 hour of fun should not exceed the price of 10 haircuts or 1 day's local pay.

Although I'm still not so sure that all girls can be potentially semi pros. Can you elaborate on that?

Has it ever happen to you that some girls were offended by your proposition?

What in your opinion is a good way to go about it without potentially offending girls? Anybody else here has a tried and true approach that saves both our and the girls' faces?

[BlissDps]

She is a university student who is working at a restaurant on the side. She is very eager to be my guide in Kiev and she doesn't want me to even talk about money as she finds this is an opportunity to improve her English.

Did you clearly offered her money for being your "bed-guide" or for being your "city-guide"? If the first is the applicable, and she wasn't offended, the chances are pretty good that you can sort out something sooner or later. If the latter is the matter, I personally wouldn't put my expectations too high as she might really only expect a kind of non-sexual exchange; she's showing the city and you're helping her improving her English.

[LuisVega11]

Remember that 99% of the woman in this part of the world are the most false person you can find in the earth in this moment.

So don't believe any bullshit. Be strong and not go downpour position.

Do like Ukraine man. Be direct, touch her body after short time to see her reaction if in a bar or restaurant, try kiss.

Don't pay too much, the more you pay the less respect they have for you.

Last week I was chatting with a girl. She look so cute but at the end she agreed to sponsor for 20 k at month with anal, everything. She told me her BF wanted to enjoy but I said I'm not interested.

I ask her why he does this with big, and if boy wa jealous, she said he's not I suck him all tim he want. I was speechless.

My suggestion is don't be too problematic dos of this people have the mind of a child of 5 years. All this girl who work as pro or semipro spend all the money they earn in the most idiot stuff. They buy apple watch even if they live in Osokorky in rundown flat.

Personally I have the tactic of sponsor. I offer sponsor, clearly I don't care, just to talk about a big sum, divided for x meeting month, I always say I stay like 2 3 month for work.

Most of time it come out 1000 1500 gryvna. But 2-3 hours with all included, anal for me is no discussion because all this girl does did and will do with idiot Ukraine men so why me not?

Go Kiev if you have time, for pay only is a waste. Not worth. Kiev is to bang your student, mom, those who are unspoilt. Remember all those you see in luxury bar were some years ago unspoiled and fresh. Find those girl before they go fucked up, mostly arrives from countryside and they have a window of 3-4 months before they got fucked up.


Good luck.

[FilancaNow]

I wanted to thank all the posters from yesterday. These posts are rather enlightening. I'll be going to Kiev in July and I'm doing my research and trying to establish a connection with locals through VK.

If anyone wants to share their gems (under 2000 uah) I'd appreciate it.

I think I have a few dates waiting for me in Kiev through VK. There's one particular girl and I need some recommendation. She is a university student who is working at a restaurant on the side. She is very eager to be my guide in Kiev and she doesn't want me to even talk about money as she finds this is an opportunity to improve her English.

Of course, it'd be impossible to know what to expect but has anyone met someone similar?

Also, a very good looking but a woman in her 30's is eager to meet. She's flying away the day after I arrive. (We have been in touch past two months) what are the chances to take here to dine and to my apartment?

It'll be my first time with EE women so I don't know if they are open to having sex after the first date.

Thanks in advance!

[Jojosun]

Please don't be discouraged by negative comments. There are some of us that love your reports on sponsoring girls, dating normal girls as opposed to Rio which has been talked about ad nauseum.

I've enjoyed your writing.

I couldn't agree more with your comments about Gopnik's reports as some of us don't fly to Kiev strictly for P4P.

Gopnik's reports are very interesting to read and in depth analysis of a scene in Kiev I & others are interested in.

I for one not interested in taking out strippers for $3oo as it defeats for me the whole object of flying to Kiev. FFS we talked enough about Rio and I always said its a good club to visit and I visited the club many times in the company of my BI Donetsk girl just for Eye Candy.

Gopnik, Keep your reports coming.

[MagicSheep74]

Greetings,

I recently had a trip to Kiev and Odessa over March and April. I was there twice over a period of 2 months, for a total of 23 days. My previous trip was 10 months ago. I will have to disagree with the naysayers here. If you do your homework and if you go relatively often, the more often the better, you can still have a fantastic time for a relatively low price.

Instead of doing a play by play, I will instead just deal with a few key points. It will be less salacious, but more informative.

My general philosophy.

Briefly, in my opinion, an airport bus is preferable to a taxi, an apartment is better to a hotel, and the much talked about Rio is too expensive. If I were willing to pay 300 USD, I would just stay at home. On top of the usual venues (bars, clubs, cafes, and the street), I shall add conventions (there are many, some to your interest, and maybe you can get your employer to pay for your trip), English teaching forums, and when the weather is favourable, beaches and parks.

Some rookie mistakes from the past.

Adjust to the new reality. -First timers might have some trouble adjusting to the fact that, unlike women back in your country, women always try to look their best, are not offended by male attention, and can be had for a reasonable price. When you arrive in Kiev, do not be constrained by behavioural norms of feminist-dominated societies. Feel free to approach women, to propose to them, to chat with them, to look, to make eye contact, to smile, to act like a man..

Just an incredibly in-depth report. Easily the best and most informative report I have read on Ukraine. I envy your enthusiasm for Kiev, almost makes me want to give it one more try.

Much appreciated and I am sure very very useful to many a reader.

[Gopnik]

Interesting report, Tomek! I enjoyed reading it. I live in Kyiv and avoid clubs like the plague, but it's interesting to hear what's happening there. I do like 'Sorry Babushka' but not to meet working girls, rather to meet regular Kyiv women to date. Haven't been there in ages, though.

You said "For crying out loud, do not pay so much. One thousand UAH is already more than double the local price. Two thousand ought to be more than enough for anyone. " and in general I agree. However, keep in mind Kyiv is an expensive city for Ukrainians and often you get what you pay for. You can find pussy for 1000 UAH but the quality is rarely very good. Conversely, for 2000 you can get something that looks good but has a bad attitude. One thing worth noting, if you come in very low on an offer, you can [CodeWord140] the girl off and she will stop negotiating with you immediately. If someone thinks of offering a girl in Kyiv 800 UAH, you might be shooting yourself in the foot. Girls aren't stupid and they often know their worth and don't want to feel like cheap garbage. That said, I have twice spent 2500 UAH on a girl in Kyiv. Two years ago I gave a non-pro I'd been working on for months 100 UAD for two hours and it was well worth it. One month later, I met a teen girl at Gulliver Mall who was eye fucking me and she turned out to have a terrible attitude. Since then I top out at 2000 UAH. No more.

Before I got into a serious relationship, I met a super-cute university girl on the streets in an area called Akademmistechko. We started talking and exchanged VK addresses. I worked on this girl for 6 months of nice chats and sweet messages. After 6 months she told me she hated her summer job (she made 25 UAH an hour, 2,800 per month) and I offered her 1000 each week to come out for dinner and be my 'girlfriend' for a few hours, including sex. It worked and we still stay in touch. So, in Kyiv there are many, many possibilities.

[Tomek123]

Here it is necessary to note several aspects.

1) Prostitution in the country is not legalized because it will deprive the police of shadow revenues. It affects the P4P scene.

2) The country has been in the orbit of Russian civilization for a long time, so many girls do not speak English.

3) The market of sex services in big cities is actually wide, many individual prostitutes, many women give announcements about their services. Prices there are often not very high and there are a lot of good talents, but the western man does not speak Russian and can not read Russian. So he does not have access to it.

4) Social networks (other than odious mamba) are also almost unknown to Westerners mongers.

5) Because prostitution is illegal, then girls are subjected to a rehab as well as sexual harassment by the police. The police have been demanding more money from the girls for the opportunity to work and receive clients. As a result, many girls in Kiev are forced to close their apartments or are forced to constantly change their apartment. To not pay the police this shadow tax. Some girls like I know try to find some rich clients and live in the shade and no longer advertise their existence and do not rent an apartment.

And many other factors. Therefore, for pure mongering, it is certainly preferable to Colombia or Brazil. And girls in Ukraine do not have that great respect for white people like in colour countries. Because UA girls themselves are white and many of them have a fairly high level of erudition and education. It's white people. Poor, but white. They will not stand on the street like a herd of cows as we see on the streets of Pattaya. So Ukraine will never become a competitor for Thailand in the sex market. Because of mental differences from Asians.

But if you have known Ukraine for a long time. And if you have free time in the year-Ukraine is a good option for sex tourism. For example, my Ukrainian friend was recently in the city of Ternopil-About 200,000 inhabitants in the west of the country. The local guy gave him contacts of the local informal FKKK mini-club. Almost all the girls and this is about 20 girls came from the eastern regions of the country. From Kharkov or Donbas. Or Kherson. Girls are attractive and a lot of blondes. Many local girls in western Ukraine went to the polish and Italy. So the deficit of local pussies.

Prices an average of several hundred hryvnia per hour. 500-600-700 hryvnia. The police know about this,club, but does not close it. Obviously corruption.

Of course.

I today had a very hard and tough session in Kiev with this girl in the photo. Very hard pounding. Photo of her. She accepts clients in her apartment that she rents. A little conversation. Then a small massage of my testicles and penis. She worked her mouth a little. BBBJ is absent // all only in condom.

So maybe about 10 minutes passed before my penis became a stick and gained firmness.

So maybe about 10 minutes passed before my penis became a stick and gained firmness. After which a little work in a pose on his side. Then a few final heavy minutes in the dog's pose. After several minutes of deep strong banging I finished while slapping her on the ass. I still had about half an hour of time but I could not restore my erection. In general, despite the bad old bed, I was pleased. I gave her 700 hryvnia. This is her price for local guys. She does not have contacts with foreigners and does not seem to speak English. She is 23 years old. Her weight is 47 kilo.

For me and guys like me, not everything is so tragic and bad in Ukraine. But if you do not know the local Ukrainian life and specifics, don't read in Russian, it is better to go to Latin America. You just save your time and get more nice poor girls from the favels.

[Stevie69]

Greetings,

I recently had a trip to Kiev and Odessa over March and April. I was there twice over a period of 2 months, for a total of 23 days. My previous trip was 10 months ago. I will have to disagree with the naysayers here. If you do your homework and if you go relatively often, the more often the better, you can still have a fantastic time for a relatively low price.

Instead of doing a play by play, I will instead just deal with a few key points. It will be less salacious, but more informative.

My general philosophy.

Briefly, in my opinion, an airport bus is preferable to a taxi, an apartment is better to a hotel, and the much talked about Rio is too expensive. If I were willing to pay 300 USD, I would just stay at home. On top of the usual venues (bars, clubs, cafes, and the street), I shall add conventions (there are many, some to your interest, and maybe you can get your employer to pay for your trip), English teaching forums, and when the weather is favourable, beaches and parks.

Some rookie mistakes from the past.

Adjust to the new reality. -First timers might have some trouble adjusting to the fact that, unlike women back in your country, women always try to look their best, are not offended by male attention, and can be had for a reasonable price. When you arrive in Kiev, do not be constrained by behavioural norms of feminist-dominated societies. Feel free to approach women, to propose to them, to chat with them, to look, to make eye contact, to smile, to act like a man.

Do not go to her place. - By the time you get there and find the place, you have wasted an hour or two, the taxi driver has ripped you off, and the girl might be disappointing. Nevertheless, might decide that you have already spent so much time and money that you will agree to anything (Concorde fallacy).

Send her home if she is not even close to "her" photo. - Some girls have photos from 10 years ago. Others do not even bother, and post photos from internet nude models. A new trend I noticed was that the online photos were similar, or with the face blurred, but they were willing to send you the real photos to viber or whatsup. It makes sense. They do not want their photos online for everyone to see.

Do not be persuaded by ONLY a pretty face or a good body. -Make sure you see both types of photos. Otherwise, you might get a pretty girl with a weigh problem, or a slim girl with a garish face.

Do not agree to anything without talking specifics. -One of the fun aspects of dealing with pros and semi-pros is that you can be open about sex, what she likes, what she will do, and for how much. If you both are already naked, it is probably too late to find out that she will not kiss, give head only with a rubber, will not allow you to touch this or that, etc. If you want to gamble, you can try a non-pro.

Do pay, as agreed, but only after the deed. -All the negotiation in the world is pointless if you give her the money and she decides not to provide everything that was agreed upon. Most of us would probably not forcibly take the money back from a girl. Some girls will agree to half now and half later, and others will be happy if you just put the money on a table, for her to pick up after the fact. It shows that you at least have the money. It will also show to her that you are not some idiot who is doing this for the first time.

Do not drink too much, and do take performance enhancing drugs, just in case. If it is okay for the Olympics and the Tour de France, it is okay for the Olympic Tour of Ukraine. I do not need them unless I am tired or I have been drinking, and sometimes I am and I have, particularly on these trips. Take them, just in case.

Do use an apartment, not a hotel. - Cheaper, no hassles, etc. As many others have written, you do not want some fat guys in suits regulating who gets to go into your room If there is something wrong with the apartment, do not wait too long until the problem is fixed. Switch quickly. I had a water problem once (no water), and ended up wasting an entire day waiting for them to repair it. It is easy enough to go to the Partnerhouse office (Baseina 19) and ask the girls to find you an apartment. By the way, you should find some excuse to go the office: the girls are amazingly beautiful and sexy. It goes to show you the true beauty of average Ukrainian girls.

Use public transport when feasible. - Negotiate with the taxis. A 50 UAH fare is a quarter of the way to the airport, not 2 blocks.

Avoid the scammers. - girls who want to meet you at a restaurant of their choice. Or, play along with them, meet them at the restaurant, and then tell them that you want another restaurant (McDonalds) and walk out.

Preparation.

As usual, I had done a lot of preliminary work both scouting some pro sites (top models, GIA, backpage and others), and actually making contacts on dating and semi-pro sites (lucky lovers, Elena's models, mamba, Badoo, Tinder). The pro sites carry some of the same pros, and the non-pros are also found in several sites. All the supposedly non-pro dating sites are littered with pros. I found backpage to be particularly useful because the ads are placed daily, so you know that they are current.

I was interested in the whole range, from potential marriage material to just really good sex (actually, you cannot have the former without the latter). I was open to meeting full-time pros, semi-pros and hard core amateurs, if there is such a beast.

I do not go as often as in the old days, but I still had some previous girls that I knew would deliver, and some that I really wanted but just missed last time around. Of course, I also kept working on new girls.

Language.

Yes, language is a huge problem. I do not know how they were able to host the Euro cup. On the other hand, the slightly smarter and more ambitious girls ARE trying to learn, so you can always offer free lessons. The teachers are hardly qualified. One of them did not know what I meant when I texted her "what is up?

Long term relationships?

As much of a romantic as I am, I have found that thinking about LTRs is almost a complete waste of time. This opinion was reinforced on this double trip. I had a long list of young women to meet, several of whom I had even talked to on Skype, but once I arrived, these girls were nowhere to be found. They were on vacation; they were offended by the fact that I was not there to meet only them, or they were just too busy to meet. In one case, in the 3 weeks since I had last talked to her, a girl had found herself a possible Turkish boyfriend. She had not even met him yet. We had a great time, but she said that she was a "one man at a time" kind of girl. Sure, probably the only such girl in Ukraine. One wasted afternoon was not too much to waste, I suppose, and she did give me a nice tour of the city and I did not spend much. Two girls I had contacted did not speak any English, or, actually, no other languages besides Russian and Ukrainian. Two others clearly were not interested in anything besides an expensive dinner. One was actually a working girl, who declared "I meet men for money only", so we did.

One was interesting. She stated in the first 10 minutes that she was not attracted to me. We proceeded to have a great conversation for nearly an hour, and she insisted on paying for her own meal and drinks. I was very impressed! It is the first time a Kiev girl had not only offered, but had actually insisted on paying for her own food and drinks. She called me three days later and wanted to meet again "to practice her English". Again, she paid for her own drinks, but was clearly changing her mind about me. I kept teasing her about being too old and ugly for her. The second time I returned, about a month later, we met a third time. This time, she let me pay, and she later paid me back the way only a woman can. She met me one more time, completely for free this time, but even at the end, she insisted that she did not want a relationship with me. I feel as if she used me for sex!

So, all these girls claim to want a serious relationship, but are not really willing to play the game. It might work if you put all your eggs on one basket and come to visit only one girl, or better, if you take her to a vacation somewhere else. They really like that, but why would I, when I can have a dozen girls here for the same price.

TRANSPORTATION.

I arrived in the early afternoon, exchanged 10 Euro (ONLY) at the airport, got a sim card from a pretty girl, and took the bus to the metro station for 50 UAH. That is the cheapest airport shuttle I have ever seen. The busses are much nicer that the last time I visited. The shuttle can also go all the way to the trait station for 80 UAH. The shorter trip is better because latter part of the trip can be painfully slow during rush hour. The metro is much faster. As soon as I got of the bus, on my way to the metro, some idiot did attempted the "drop wad of cash" scam on me.

I then took the metro, for 4 UAH. Again, the cheapest metro I have ever seen. Actually, that is 1/1000th of the price of your monthly wages here, so back home, that is $4 to $8, so about the same. The same logic works for the Airport Shuttle. Back to the metro, the tracks were built to serve as bomb shelters, so they are very deep. The escalator ride takes several minutes, so it you position yourself beside a hot babe, you might have time to extract her phone number and set up a date during the ride down (or up).

I got off the metro and walked to the apartment. They were waiting for me. I dropped my stuff and went out to (1) exchange more money, (2) buy some necessities like basic food and drinks, toothpaste and toothbrushes, mouthwash and some girly stuff (it is good to be considerate). I came back and decided to go for a walk and enjoy the sights.

WEB SITES.

As I said, Gia is my upper end, and I avoided it this time. However, the photos are real, and the service is good. Currently, they have lots of young girls, and one of the older ones (Regina) has returned. Variety is the key to a good life. Prices start at 3000 UAH, half of which goes to the agency.

Top models is tricky. I imagine the ones asking for 2000 UAH and more are real, but if I were willing to pay that much, I would rather go with Gia. I did not even try anything under 600 UAH. Most of the photos are fake, even if it says they are real. They do not speak English, even if it says they do. They often disconnect or double the price the moment they realize you do not speak Russian. However, after a lot of trial and error, and stern warnings that girls with fake photos will be sent home, it is possible to get some good girls. Just use some common sense. If the photos look like they are from professional models, then they probably are. If there are several girls with the same number, then it probably an agency and they will just send you any girl, not the one you wanted. I tried for girls in the middle (range 600-1500 UAH), with a variety of photos in different settings, and not from agencies. I figured the ones with their faces blurred are more likely to be real. I asked to send me photos or warned them that final approval would happen when we meet. I ended up meeting a few cuties that in their photos, looked like real girls.

Mamba turned out to be a good source. Lots of pros, semi-pros and girls thinking that they can meet someone special from a far-away land. It is easy to pick the pros. They are the ones that are looking for sex, with anyone 60 or younger. I met several beauties, young and not so young, but all relatively good.

Backpage was also useful. The main benefit there is that the ads are placed daily, so you know that they are current.

Tinder was another possibility. Unlike in North America, the girls are so hot that you never have to swipe left. I just "liked" everyone and waited for positive replies. I got two regular girls, both of whom I met, and several pros.

Badoo gives you a proximity indicator. I did not have time to waste, so I "liked" everyone". Unfortunately, I got most replies form women I should have "unliked". Nevertheless, there were a few exceptions, from both professionals and supposedly amateurs. None of these contacts materialized. Yet.

I suggest you buy the premium service for whatever site you find most useful. You do not want the site to put limits on your number of contacts per day. Every day is valuable when you are on a trip.

It is funny that in Kiev, it is easier to get sex at 4:00 am Than at 4:00 pm Except for real pros, girls have regular jobs, so the earliest you can usually book a date is 6:00 pm.

MONEY.

While I was there, the USD was at about 26 UAH, and the Euro at about 28. Oddly, there was little variation between places. I usually found a difference of 0. 50 UAH on any given day. Also, the rate at the airport was the SAME as the rate in the centre. I usually exchange a small amount at the airport, but this time, it was an unnecessary precaution.

When I left, I almost got stuck with a significant amount of UAH in my pocket. Everyone is willing to take USD or Euros, but it is a lot more difficult to find places that will give them out. Maybe it was too early in the morning.

PRICES.

Prices have been discussed at length here before. The price for sex across the world is set at: (1) one day's wages, (2) ten times the price of a haircut, (3) the price of your hotel room, or (4) the price of 3 dates.

In Kiev, GIA, which is my high-end range, which starts at 3000 UAH, and half of that goes to the house. Your average cashier girl makes barely 4000 UAH per month. A bank teller, secretary, nurse, or any other seemingly "professional" person will make up to 8000 UAH. So, that is 1000 to 2000 UAH per week, and 200-400 UAH per day. The price for foreigners is at least twice the price for locals.

No, not all hot girls fly to Dubai and only work two weeks per year. No, not all hot girls have rich sponsors. Donetsk is deserted, but Kiev is well populated by hundreds of thousands beautiful women. Just go for a walk on the street or take the metro sometime!

Of course, we could easily pay 2000 UAH to 4000 UAH per hour, but it is not just the money. First, you want the girl to come back, and she will not return if she already earned one month's wages in one hour. They just do not think ahead that far; she will assume that she find another idiot and get another massive payoff next month. Second, you want the girl to respect you. If she thinks you are a loser she can exploit, she will not give you good service. Third, I like it if the girl at least likes me a little; that she might want to have sex with someone like me even if she did not needed the money. I like to think of the money as just an added incentive, not the only incentive. Fourth, you do not know what sort of service you will get until after the fact. A playboy bunny for 5000 UAH might be a really bad experience, but by the time you find out, it is too late. Finally, after you remove the expensive dress, the fancy nails, and the heavy make-up, there is not much of a difference between a 5000 UAH hardened pro and a 1000-2000 UAH sweet student or a young hard-working single mother. Actually, the latter two will probably give you a much better experience.

In the USA, porn actresses get between $800 and $1,000 per scene, with top performers earning up to $2000. In the UK, the mean advertised rate for pros is 103 GBP per hour, about 10 times the price of a (normal) haircut, the price of a (good?) hotel room, one day's wages, or the price of 3 (cheap?) dates.

In Ukraine, you should never pay more than 2000 UAH unless you are allowed to take a video. I think we agreed that about 1000 UAH is a fair price. My range during this trip was 800 to 2000 UAH. Locals pay 500 UAH and less. Please do not overpay!

Minor scams to avoid.

Girls often offer and insist upon TWO hours, as if anyone can have sex for that long.

Why would anyone agree to pay for TWO hours? The time from intromission to ejaculation is about 6 minutes (mean of 5. 7 and median of 6 minutes, with a range from 33 seconds to 52 minutes). By the way, the median for Turkish men is the lowest, at 3. 7 minutes, significantly lower than that of the other countries (Waldinger et al. 2005. A multinational population survey of intravaginal ejaculation latency time. J. Sex. Med. 2: 492-497. . AND. 2009. A five-nation survey to assess the distribution of the intravaginal ejaculatory latency time among the general male population. J Sex Med. 6: 2888-2895). Even with some foreplay and the girls taking 10 minutes in the bathroom, 30 minutes ought to be enough for 90% of men, and one hour definitely enough for 99% of men.

Another stupid scam is the taxi. The quote their price and then add "plus taxi"! Why separate the taxi? Why not give me an itemized list for transportation, make-up, shoes, clothing, etc? I tell them I do not care how they get here as long as they make it at the agreed-upon time. To make things worse, they usually want 200 UAH for the taxi! Where are they coming from? Boryspol? I tell them to be good girls and use the metro like everyone else. I take the metro, which during the day is probably faster than any taxi. I also offer to send "my driver" to pick them up, a suggestion for which they have no answer.

Finally, I also hate the foreign currency scam. Why would they quite prices in a foreign currency? And nice round numbers too: $100 or $200. I counter with local currency, and a nice, round number: 1000 UAH.

Pros and semi-pros.

I get the impression that nearly all normal girls are potentially semi-pros in Kiev. As we know, Ukrainian women are very sexually confident. From a young age, they learn that their sexuality is a valuable commodity. Unlike some North American women, they are not offended by the fact that men find them sexually desirable. They know that sex is part of any friendship with a man. I call them facultative pros.

In a few occasions, I found myself talking with what in North America, would be considered "amateurs". In North America, that means that you spend $200-400 on 3 dates, so that MAYBE you end up having sex on the third one. Yes, the price for sex is about the same, whether you pay for it directly or indirectly. Well, in Kiev, they know that sex is part of the deal and it will happen soon enough. They would rather have the money than have you spend it with them. So, if they like you, even a little, they can easily be persuaded to have sex with you for a little money.

After several minutes of conversation, and if I saw her responding appropriately, smiling and giggling, I suggested going back to my place for some private fun, paused for a second to gauge her reaction, and then added that I could give here a "gift", or "show some appreciation for her", or "help with her expenses", and "make it worth her time with you". Eventually, they all understood what I meant. If they are really offended and walk away, just talk to the next girl you see. If they pretend to be offended and keep talking to you, apologize and withdraw the money, but say that you only have a couple of weeks to get to know her. Eventually, she will decide to take the money. The third option is when they give you a counter offer. Then you know you are talking to a pro, and you can be open about prices and details. Start your negotiation at about 1000 UAH or lower.

Oddly, young university students can be easily seduced by very little money. Maybe they do not know how cute they are, or maybe they do not need as much money, or maybe they are surrounded by so many other beautiful girls in school that they figure they better take what they can get or someone else will. In any case, twice, after just chatting for 20 minutes, I persuaded two pretty girls (on separate occasions) to come to my place for some fun, for only 800 and 1000 UAH. One of them came back for more 2 days later, and the other one sent me her friend later in the week. I never paid more than 1200 UAH. I tried to arrange a threesome, but the timing was not right, or they just did not want to go for it. Nevertheless, where else in the world can you get sweet, beautiful, 20-23 year old students for that much money?

I met an absolute 24-year-old beauty on backpage. Her real photos, which she send to my phone and showed her face, were even better. She worked nearby, so she agreed to meet me for coffee after work and discuss the details. I argued that she could use the meeting to check me out and see whether I was too old, fat, or ugly for her. I was not, of course. She was as gloriously pretty as the photos, and elegant, intelligent, and spoke English. We had a pleasant conversation, and then I brought up the issue of money. In retrospect, maybe I should have just suggested that we go to my apartment, just 100 m away, and continue or conversation. I screwed up. She quoted me $ 120 USD for TWO hours, or $300 USD "for the entire night", including anal. That was about 8000 UAH, which was insane, of course. That is probably what she made all month as an administrative assistant. However, I figured it was about 1000 per hour, so I proposed ONE hour, and she flatly refused. I told her that I have been paying 1500 UAH at the most, which was about $60 USD for ONE hour, but she refused. I offered 2000 UAH per hour, and if we got along, we could do it again the next day. I explained that she would have 8000 UAH in four hours instead of 8, and I was not going to risk 8000 UAH unless I knew her better. She refused and we parted ways.

Anyway, 20 min. Later she messaged me saying: " I like you, but you are greedy". I explained that she was the greedy one, expecting one month's pay for one night's work. She texted back saying that some foreigner paid her $500 for the whole night a couple of days ago. SEE!? A few idiots ruin it for the rest of us. I told her that she should be texting him, not me. She said he was now out of the country. I told her that she should wait until he comes back. I did not hear from her after that.

Well, not until 2 days later. I guess she had not been able to obtain her 8000 UAH per night or 3200 UAH per two hours. She offered to accept 2000 UAH per hour. I said I was busy with another date, but maybe I could see her for 1500. We eventually agreed on 1800 UAH. She was certainly worth at least 2000! Back home, she would be an elite companion for corrupt politicians. What a great country! I saw her again two more times, and each time for only 1800. That is more reason to negotiate: once you agree upon a price, it becomes the standard and girls are less likely to haggle on in the future.

I should finally add that that with semi-pros, your mileage might definitely vary. They must first like you, at least a little. I happen to be a fit, good-looking 40 ish year old man. If you are an ugly, fat, 60 year old guy, things might be different. Money is no substitute for charm. For that, there are always the hard-core pros.

The art of threesomes.

Actually, this has nothing to do with Kiev, but I will throw it in anyway. During this trip, I had 3 threesomes, two of them with the same two girls. Do not agree to a threesome unless you already have had a mind-blowing experience at least one of the girls. Ask her if she has a friend, and tell her to bring her for you to meet or to send you some photos. If you like her, go for it.

Actually, if there is not girl-on-girl action, a good threesome is hard work. Okay, the double BJ is great, but after that most of us have a tendency to focus on one girl at a time. Also, I practise safe sex, but not for oral, so it can become troublesome during a threesome. Every time you switch you have to switch condoms. Not only does it slow everything down, but you might end up running out of condoms half way through. If you switch to a mouth, you can keep it on, but then your BJ is covered, not quite the same. Luckily, for one of my threesomes, the girls knew and trusted each other, so I did not have to switch condoms all the time.

BAD EXPERIENCES.

I found a few gems, and reconnected with some beauties from the past. One has started taking on a new role: finding new girls for me. She always made sure to include herself in the threesome, of course. I will not reveal these girls to you. They took a lot of work to find. Sorry. However, I will share a couple of bad experiences you should avoid.

A redhead from Mamba named Mila. She claims to be 21, but I imagine it is 26. She is fatter than in her photos, so not the best body, but still a pretty face. Very large breasts. I had a difficult time booking her for 2 days, and she eventually showed up at 1:00 am. We argued about the money, and then whether she should get it before or after. I never pay before. Eventually, she agreed to half now and half at the end. As soon as we finished having sex, she ran to the money and picked up the other half, even before heading into the bathroom. The worst part was that she such bad breath that kissing was out of the question. Was it the last guy's cum? Her pussy was also stinky, and I did not even get close. I really should have sent her back to the bathroom to clean up. The sex was terrible.

A second fail was blonde from mamba that calls herself Sweetie. I think she is 29. She showed up across the street, dressed like a total pro, with crazy high heels that made it almost impossible for her to walk. She was bigger and fatter than in her photos. Actually, I doubt the photos were hers at all. I did not feel any chemistry and I should have sent her home right away. However, we made it to my place, and then the problems began. First, there was no kissing. When she did not kiss me in the elevator, I should have sent her home. At least she was clean. Then she wanted to get paid up front, and she also refused half now and half later. I did not even try to convince her and told her to get out. At least she did, but not before threatening to send her boyfriend, yes the one that is so supportive that she has to sell herself for 1200 UAH. NO, I did not pay anything. I had forgotten my rule: if they do not kiss you upon meeting you, or you really do not feel any attraction, then end it!

VENUES.

My apartment was centrally located, with a great view of the street. It was near Mandarin plaza, so I spent most of my time near that end of Kreshatik. I had to come down to let girls in, which made it easier to reject a few that did not meet standards. There was a bus stop with a bus shelter right tin front of my door, which made it convenient to wait for a girl inconspicuously.

There is no cover charge at the Buddha bar; they compensate with the outrageous price of their drinks. Nevertheless, I recommend you at least check it out. It is huge. By the way, the Buddha is painted gold, NOT gold. That much gold would be too heavy to move, would break the floor, and would solve the Ukrainian financial crisis. The action occurred on the second floor. They charge for a table, and groups of businessmen had fallen into that trap. They were sitting away from the action, by themselves, ogling that the girls far away at the bar. Some other tables had girls and their sponsors. I wonder why would you bring a pro to an over-priced bar? Are the egos of these guys so fragile? Most of the available girls were at the bar, but the interaction was difficult. All the bar stools were taken, so there was not any natural movement of people, or a dance floor.

I thought fondly of the old River Palace. I remember that scrimmage are by the end, near the bar, where you would not help but physically interact with lots of lovely breasts, shapely asses and beautiful faces, close up. The prices were low and the selection of girls included secretaries, nurses, and beauticians, along with the hard-core pros. That kept the prices reasonable, and the prices for food and drinks were also quite good. It was a stark contrast with the pretentious attitude of the Buddha bar. I talked to a couple of girls at the bar and they wanted 300 USD, and refused to even flirt a little or negotiate. When I told them that I would go out to try to find some exchange place to get USD, then they suddenly changed their currency to UAH. It was still a ridiculous amount, of course, so I just had a beer and left. I must admit, however, that the girls were immaculately dressed and strikingly beautiful.

The Caribbean Club is frequented by Turkish-looking tourists so much that they are now catering to their musical tastes. (I write Turkish-looking" because I did not check any passports, so it would be presumptuous for me to just write "Turkish" They should just give up the pretence and change the name to "the Bosphorus Club". Sure, there were many gorgeous girls, but they were so outnumbered by Turkish-looking sex tourists that their prices started at $ 300-200 USD. Most of them knew that sooner or later, some drunken idiot would agree. As the night wore on, the number of girls dwindled, or they started working more seriously on their respective sponsors and moved to a table.

At several times during the night, "Club Bosphorus" looked like a Turkish gay club, with a couple of girls dancing with each other, and a dozen Turkish-looking guys dancing with each other in the periphery, trying to get the attention of the 2 available girls. Maybe I am old-fashioned, but but unless it is for a Maori war dance, men dancing with each other is unmanly. My personal feelings aside, that stupid move of men dancing together while trying to merge into 2 girls dancing with each other is pathetic, even with non-professional girls! If you are not averse to dancing, how hard can it be to walk up to a girl and ask her to dance with you? Of course, that would not even be necessary here. It is as if these guys do not realize that they are prostitutes. You do not have to dance with them. You do not have to buy them drinks. All you have to do is negotiate a reasonable price.

The prices girls charge at "the Bosphorus Club" are much higher than the prices the same girls charge elsewhere. For example, I had had a girl for 1000 UAH earlier in the day, and she used that seed money to go to "the Bosphorus Club" in the evening. I met her, but she was now charging $200 USD. I negotiated here down to $1500 USD, but that was still crazy. Sure enough, some time later she and her friend moved to a table with some Turkish-looking guys to negotiate the details and get some free drinks, and 20 minutes later, they were out the door. Anyway, I went twice, but the situation was pathetic and expensive.

"Sorry Babushka" was recommended by one of my regular girls. It is located near the circus and across a big shopping mall, just a bit further from "Club Bosphorus". It turned out to be great. The drawback of "Sorry Babushka" was that it was empty on weekdays, which is the reason I found myself at "Club Bosphorus" a second time. It was a local nightclub with only a few foreigners. It has two floors, with some areas where you can talk in peace. The prices were reasonable, and there were lots of girls. I was able to pick up a girl three out of the four times I went. One of them came with me for only 1000 UAH (plus a couple of drinks and an overpriced taxi) and repeated a few days later. The other two required a little more persuasion, a dinner, conversation, and a movie, but otherwise free of charge. Well, actually, I gave each 500 UAH and 800 UAH, so they could buy themselves "something nice". It is just what I had in my wallet. Even professionals do not like to think of themselves as professionals, which is why they usually refer to their pay as a "gift". Anyway, I saw these 3 girls a total of 7 times during my stay, and I am in contact with them still.

Actually, other than trying to meet regular girls, and in one occasion taking a girl out after sex (never before! Who wants to have sex at 4:00 a. M, when you are sleepy and have been drinking all night? I think nightclubs are a waste of money.

TIME IS MONEY.

These girls have no concept of time. Nearly all my appointments showed up at least 20 minutes late. I cancelled on another girl after one hour, and two days later she showed up exactly on time! I had to cancel on a new girl because 2 girls were supposed to come one hour later. However, the two girls were one hour late, which would have given me enough time for the first. I told one of my regular girls that I would deduct 100 UAH for every 15 minutes late. She showed up only 10 minutes late! If you give them the option of any time they want and they agree, they should show up on time. Other alternatives are to book several girls and just accept the one that comes first, or book them at 1:30 h intervals and cancel if they happen to be 20 minutes late. I should add that the one I cancelled on seemed to like me and respect me more than I re-booked her 2 days later. These girls are used to, and are turned on by men who are assertive.

THE OLD BAIT AND SWITCH.

I turned a few girls. The first one looked nothing like her photo. Maybe the photo was from 10 years ago. No thanks, I said, and sent her home. She was not happy. The second one looked like her photo, pretty face, but a little too fat. Foolishly, I had not seen any bikini photos. I figured it was my mistake, and I gave her 200 UAH for her troubles. She did not seem too upset. The third one was the opposite. I had seen a nice photo or a slim and elegant girl, but her face was a little blurred. Unfortunately, she was not very pretty. With thousands of gorgeous women all over the city, what are the odds that I would set up a date with the only ugly one? Again, I figured it was my mistake, and I gave her 200 UAH for her troubles and told her to leave. She did not seem too upset. The last one came, and only then started to negotiate. She wanted 200 Euros. I told her that for that much, I cold get the most beautiful high class prostitutes in the city (I was thinking the most expensive girls in Gia). She mentioned that some Italian guy had given her that much earlier in the week. Yes, some IDIOT Italian guy maybe. She went down to 150 USD and refused to be reasonable (that is still in the Gia range). I sent her home. She was not happy. So, there you go; guys who pay too much without thinking are ruining the market for everyone. By the way, the Gia girls give a proportion, perhaps up to 50% to the site, so the real price is about half.

SUMMARY.

For crying out loud, do not pay so much. One thousand UAH is already more than double the local price. Two thousand ought to be more than enough for anyone. For those who want high prices, I recommend using Gia, where the girls start at 3000 UAH, which includes half for the site. If you are willing to pay more, stay at home.

I told all the girls that I would be there for 3 weeks, even up to my last day, and that I would return in 3-4 months. I figured that thinking that I might become a repeat customer would encourage them to do their job well. I also told everyone I was there on business, which was partially true. I had more details ready, if they asked, but they never do. In their culture, it is men's business. In any case, you do not want girls to think you are just a sex tourist.

Maximize your exposure, to pros and semi-pros (the rest). Conferences, shops, malls, restaurants, hair salons, English forums, and the street are perfectly good places to make some contacts. Actually, I spent so much time in my apartment, waiting or copulating, that I did not get to fully appreciate the beauties out in the street. The weather was not very good at this time of the year. I saw some foreigners acting like desperate sex tourists, hitting one every girl out on the street. I assume that is not the best technique. Just be cool, smile, and if a girl makes eye contact or sits or stands close to you, say whatever comes to mind. Feel free to approach them, as if you were a man in North America back in the 50's. A simple "Hello," makes a perfectly good opening line.

Treat them well and appreciate their beauty.

Money is not a substitute for charm.

My vacation was so good that I had a little trouble returning to my regular life. I plan to be back in September, when the market is flooded by returning students.