Greetings. I was there in May. Sorry for the delay in reporting. Instead of doing a play by play, I will instead just deal with a few key points. It will be less salacious, but more informative.
SOME ROOKIE MISTAKES.
Things I have learned from experience:
-First timers might have some trouble adjusting to this new reality, where most of the women look and dress like fashion models, are actually flattered by male attention, and can be had for a reasonable price. When you arrive in Kiev, do not be constrained by behavioral norms or feminist-dominated societies. Feel free to approach women, to propose to them, to chat with them, to look, to make eye contact, to smile, to act like a man.
-Do not go to see the girl's place. By the time you get there and find the place, you have wasted an hour or two, the taxi driver has ripped you off, and the girl might be disappointing, or you might decide that you have already spent so much time and money that you will agree to anything (Concorde fallacy).
-Do not agree to have sex with a girl who is not even close to the one on the photo.
-Do not agree to too much without talking specifics. One of the fun aspects of dealing with professionals is that you can be open about sex, what she likes, what she will do, and for how much. If you want to gamble, you can try a non-pro.
-do not drink too much, and do take performance enhancing pharmaceuticals, just in case. It is NOT the Olympics or the Tour de France, so it is okay. Actually, it is always, okay, or so it seems.
-use an apartment, not a hotel. Cheaper, no hassles, etc.
-use public transport when feasible. Negotiate with the taxis. A 50 UAH fare is a quarter of the way to the airport, not 4 blocks.
-avoid the scammers, girls who want to meet you at a restaurant of their choice.
PREPARATION.
As usual, I had done a lot of preliminary work both scouting some pro sites (top models, GIA and others), and actually making contacts on dating, semi-pro sites (lucky lovers, Elena's models, mamba). The pro sites carry some of the same pros, and the non-pros are also found in several sites. I was interested in the whole range, from potential marriage material to just really good sex (actually, you cannot have the former without the latter). I was open to meeting full-time pros, semi-pros and hard core amateurs, if there is such a beast.
As it turned out, the marriage-oriented girls, and I had a list of at least 10, who had been so eager to meet me in weeks before, were suddenly too busy. Suddenly, they had to go out of town, the mother was sick, the dog needed medicine, etc, etc. I think that maybe they were not really interested and they were just doing their patriotic duty by enticing foreign men into visiting Ukraine and spending much needed hard currency. A couple of them suddenly turned into virgins, and wanted to "get to know me" before doing anything interesting. I figured those just wanted a few expensive dates.
Mamba turned out to be the best resource of semi-pros.
MY GENERAL PHILOSOPHY.
Briefly, in my opinion, an airport bus is preferable to a taxi, an apartment is better to a hotel, and the much talked about Rio is too expensive. If I were willing to pay 300 USD, I would just stay at home. On top of the usual venues (bars, clubs, cafes, and the street), I shall add conventions (there are many, some to your interest, and maybe you can get your employer to pay for your trip), English teaching forums, and when the weather is favorable, beaches and parks.
MONEY AND PRICES.
While I was there, the USD was at about 20-21 UAH, and the Euro at about 23-24. Oddly, there was little variation between places. I usually found a difference of 0. 50 UAH on any given day. Also, the rate at the airport was the SAME as the rate in the centre. I usually exchange a small amount at the airport, but this time, it was an unnecessary precaution.
When I left, I almost got stuck with a significant amount of UAH in my pocket. Everyone is willing to take USD or Euros, but it is a lot more difficult to find places that will give them out. Maybe it was too early in the morning.
If I wanted to pay 200-300 Euros for one hour of sex, I could easily just stay home. In the past, I had used GIA as my upper limit. This time, their discounts started in the 2000-2500 UAH, but I hoped I did not have to use them. They are okay if you do not have enough time, and at least you are guaranteed to get the actual girl in the photo. By the way, if you ever use them, make sure you adhere to the Russian version, where the prices are in UAH, not USD, and the prices are slightly lower. My desired price range was 600 to 1200, with 1500 as my upper limit. I think this is more than fair.
In most regular jobs, girls get paid no more than 4000-5000 UAH per month, which yields 1000 UAH per week, or 200 UAH per day. So, they earn in the range of 10 USD or 10 Euros per day! In North America, jobs pay $3000 to $5000 per month and sex goes for $200-300, or about one to two days' wages. In Kiev, that would be 200 to 400 UAH. Sure enough, ads start at about 300 UAH, and local men would never pay more than 500 UAH. Of course, professional girls would never agree to that much money from a foreigner, just because they know we can pay more. However, double the normal rate seems more than reasonable.
I ended up getting a some semi-pros for 600 UAH (plus some food or a couple of drinks), several at 800 and 1000, a couple of girls at 1200, and one at 1500. I almost broke form and took a girl for 2000 UAH, but luckily, I prevailed.
Are these prices fair? For example, I had a phone number of a girl, a semi-pro, from a previous trip and I asked her to come to my place. A different girl showed up, but she was okay too. Did the other girl retire and passed on her number to a friend? I do not know. In any case, she was already sitting on my bed before she remembered to discuss prices. She started with 200 Euro! I smiled and told her that 20 year old university students, just across the street earlier in the day, can be had for just 600-800 UAH. We eventually settled on 1000 UAH. She seemed to be quite happy with that. She stayed chatting for a long time afterwards, and came back for more a few days later. I doubt it was just because of my great sexual prowess.
PROS AND SEMI-PROS.
I get the impression that nearly all normal girls are potentially semi-pros in Kiev. As we know, Ukrainian women are very sexually confident. From a young age, they learn that their sexuality is a valuable commodity. Unlike some North American women, they are not offended by the fact that men find them sexually desirable. They know that sex is part of any friendship with a man. I call them facultative pros.
In a few occasions, I found myself talking with what in North America, would be considered "amateurs". In North America, that means that you spend $200-300 on 3 dates, so that MAYBE you end up having sex on the third one. Yes, the price for sex is about the same, whether you pay for it directly or indirectly. Well, in Kiev, they know that sex is part of the deal and it will happen soon enough. They would rather have the money than have you spend it with them. So, if they like you, even a little, they can easily be persuaded to have sex with you for a little money.
After several minutes of conversation, and if I saw her responding appropriately, smiling and giggling, I suggested going back to my place for some private fun, paused for a second to gauge her reaction, and then added that I could give here a "gift", or "show some appreciation for her", or "help with her expenses", and "make it worth her time with you". They all understood what I meant. If they are really offended and walk away, just talk to the next girl you see. If they pretend to be offended and keep talking to you, apologize and withdraw the money, but say that you only have a couple of weeks to get to know her. Eventually, she will decide to take the money, at least for the first few times. The third option is when they give you a counter offer. Then you know you are talking to a pro, and you can be open about prices and details. Negotiate her down to about 1000 UAH.
Oddly, young university students can be easily seduced by very little money. Maybe they do not know how cute they are, or maybe they do not need as much money, or maybe they are surrounded by so many other beautiful girls in school that they figure they better take what they can get or someone else will. In any case, twice, after just chatting for 20 minutes, I persuaded two pretty girls (on separate occasions) to come to my place for some fun for only 600 UAH. One of them came back for more 2 days later, and the other one sent me her friend later in the week. I tried to arrange a threesome, but the timing was not right, or they just did not want to go for it. Nevertheless, where else in the world can you get sweet, beautiful, 20-23 year old students for about $30 ?
On the other hand, some of the pretty young babes I "met" on Mamba have figured it out and turned pro. They have realized how valuable they really are and want to charge absurd prices (200 USD) and refuse to even negotiate.
I should also add that that with semi-pros, your mileage might definitely vary. They must like you first, at least a little. I happen to be a fit, good looking 40 year old man. If you are an ugly, fat, 60 year old guy, things might be different. Money is no substitute for charm. For that, there are always the real pros.
THE ART OF THREESOMES.
Actually, this has nothing to do with Kiev, but I will throw it in anyway. During this trip, I had 4 threesomes, two of them with the same two girls. Do not agree to a threesome unless you already have had a mind-blowing experience at least one of the girls. Ask her if she has a friend, and tell her to bring her for you to meet or to send you some photos. If you like her, go for it.
Actually, if there is not girl-on-girl action, a good threesome is hard work. Okay, the double BJ is great, but after that most of us have a tendency to focus on one girl at a time. Also, I practice safe sex, but not for oral, and it can become troublesome during a threesome. Every time you switch you have to switch condoms. Not only does it slow everything down, but you might end up running out of condoms half way through. If you switch to a mouth, you can keep it on, but then your BJ is covered, not quite the same. Luckily, for one of my threesomes, the girls knew and trusted each other, so I did not have to switch condoms all the time.
VENUES.
My apartment was centrally located, with a great view of the street. It was near Mandarin plaza, so I spent most of my time near that end of Kreshatik. I had to come down to let girls in, which made it easier to reject a few that did not meet standards.
Caribbean was my default option in the night, but I also made it to Avalon, and Buddha bar. I should have gone to Vodka bar and other such places, but somehow, I did not get around to it. When you have only 2 weeks to accomplish the mission, every night is valuable and sometimes it is better to stick to the places you know.
I went to the famous Buddha bar for the first time There is no cover, so I recommend you at least check it out. It is huge. By the way, the Buddha is painted gold, not gold. That much gold would be too heavy to move, would break the floor, and would solve the Ukrainian financial crisis. In any case, the action occurred on the second floor. There were lots of tables, occupied by lots of girls and their sponsors, and stools by the bar. However, the place did not really facilitate any interaction. The girls at the tables were already with their sponsors (why would you take a pro to an overpriced bar? Well, just to show off, I suppose). The interaction at the bar was minimal. There was not any natural movement of people, or a dance floor, or any way to interact naturally.
I thought fondly of the old River Palace. I remember that scrimmage are by the end, near the bar, where you would not help but physically interact with lots of lovely breasts, shapely asses and beautiful faces, close up. The prices were lot and the selection of girls included secretaries, nurses and beauticians, along with the hard core pros. That kept the prices reasonable, and the prices for food and drinks were also quite good. It was a stark contrast with the pretentious attitude of the Buddha bar. I talked to a couple of girls at the bar and they wanted 300 USD, and refused to even flirt a little or negotiate. Sure, eventually some idiot foreign sex tourist will pay, maybe. I just had one drink and moved on. I night return next time to check it out. After all there is no cover and the girls, I must say I must say, were immaculately dressed and strikingly beautiful.
Mostly, I spent the day at tourist attractions, ate at McDonalds, and spent the early evenings at sport bars (particularly one across my apartment) and my late evenings at Caribbean. I also went to a couple of English teaching forums, gave a talk at a a university, and sort of attended a conference. The key is to maximize your exposure to non-pros, which are actually facultative pros, or semi-pros.
TRANSPORTATION.
I arrived in the early afternoon, exchanged 10 Euro (ONLY) at the airport, took the bus to the Train station for 60 UAH. That is the cheapest airport shuttle I have ever seen. Actually, it is about half tot he nearest metro, and that might even be a better choice for tow reason. First, the latter part of the trip, during rush hour, was painfully slow. The metro would have been much faster. Second, if you just go tot he metro, they put your luggage with you, in the main cab, not at the back of the bus. I just did not like having my luggage out of sight. No, I am not being paranoid. Once, elsewhere in eastern Europe, some guy approached the open luggage compartment, checked his clipboard, and boldly took my suitcase. Luckily, I was watching from inside, ran out, and caught up with him. Luckily, it was still there when I got out.
I then took the metro, for 4 UAH. Again, the cheapest metro I have ever seen. The tracks were built to serve as bomb shelters, so they are very deep. The escalator ride takes several minutes, so it you position yourself beside a hot babe, you might have time to extract her phone number and set up a date during the ride down (or up).
I got off the metro and walked to the apartment, They were waiting for me. I dropped my stuff and went out to (1) exchange more money, (2) get a local sim card (cheaper for you and for the girls to call you back), and (3) buy some basic necessities like basic food and drinks, toothpaste and toothbrushes, mouthwash and some girly stuff (it is good to be considerate). I came back and decided to go for a walk and enjoy the sights.
THE CITY.
It was a nice sunny day, and I had my first hard decision to make: go out and enjoy the beauties littering the streets or stay put and start working on getting some girls. One of the best parts of Kiev is just watching the beauties in their light and often transparent summer dresses and high heels parading along the streets of downtown all day and night. Definitely a leg-lover's paradise!
I found the perfect compromise. I went down to a sidewalk caf across the street, and while having a beer and enjoying the view, I started calling a few babes. Te usual bullshit started: disconnect, no English, no answer, busy today, another girl is available, out of town, etc. But I had enough contacts so I kept forging ahead. Soon I had my first scammer; a girl who knew I was coming and wanted to meet me, at a restaurant of her choice. I told her to meet me here, but she refused. I agreed to meet her in 3 hours at her restaurant, but I had no intention to show up. I sincerely hope she is still waiting for me.
I just patiently waited at the caf, having a slow drink and some food, enjoying the view. By the way, as I mentioned before, the girls in the street were as spectacular! Girls would pass by and occasionally make eye contact or even smile. Eventually, I got the nerve to motion them over to join me, and after 4 or 5 tries, 2 hot girls did so. I made sure they did not order anything too expensive, but I chatted with them for a while. I find it peculiar that when Kiev girls see you with a woman, they are more likely to check you out and smile at you. I call it mate choice copying. In any case, I got their numbers and eventually made up some reason as to why I had to leave. I called one of them the next day, and sure enough, after just one drink at a bar, she agreed to come to my place for some fun and "a gift for her".
WEB SITES.
As I said, Gia is my upper end, and I avoided it this time. However, the photos are real, and the service is good. Currently, they have lots of young girls, and unfortunately, they have removed some of the older ones. Variety is the key to a good life.
Top models is tricky. I imagine the ones asking for 2000 UAH and more are real, but if I were willing to pay that much, I would rather go with Gia. I did not even try anything under 600 UAH. Most of the photos are fake, even if it says they are real. They do not speak English, even if it says they do. They often disconnect the moment they realize you do not speak Russian. However, after a lot of trial and error, and stern warnings that girls with fake photos will be sent home, it is possible to get some good girls. Just use some common sense. If the photos look like they are from professional models, then they probably are. If there are several girls with the same number, then it probably an agency and they will just send you any girl, not the one you wanted. I tried for girls in the middle (range 600-1500 UAH), with a variety of photos in different settings, and not from agencies. I figured the ones with their faces blurred are more likely to be real. I asked to send me photos or warned them that final approval would happen when we meet. I ended up meeting a few cuties that in their photos, looked like real girls.
http://prostitutki-kieva.biz/ and
http://sexkiev.net/ and others. Same idea.
Mamba turned out to be my main source. Lots of pros, semi-pros and girls thinking that they can meet someone special from a far-away land. It is easy to pick the pros. They are the ones that are looking for sex, with anyone 60 or younger. I met several beauties, young and not so young, but all relatively good.
TIME IS MONEY.
It seems these girls have no concept of time. Nearly all my appointments showed up at least 20 minutes late. On one day, I had 3 girls who called me around noon, and they all wanted to meet at about 16:00 h. The first one was a repeat, and fantastic, so I quickly agreed. The second one was also a repeat, also fantastic, but a little younger. Before I called the first one to postpone by a couple of hours, a third one called. She was new, and I had been trying to connect with her for 2 or 3 days. A great girl, a younger girl or a new girl? What a dilemma! The second one could not re-schedule, so we decided to meet the next day instead. The first one agreed to come 3 hours later. The third one ended up being one hour late, and then cancelled. The first one ended up being over 2 hours late, until I cancelled.
So, instead of having 3 girls, all at the same time, I ended up having nobody, well, until much later in the night. If this ever happens again, I will just agree, and stick to the first come first served rule. The one (s) that comes late can join in on a threesome (or foursome) or wait their turn.
I should add that the one I cancelled on seemed to like me and respect me more than I re-booked her 2 days later. These girls are used to, and turned on by, men who are men, not wimps.
THE OLD BAIT AND SWITCH.
I turned down several girls. The first one looked nothing like her photo. Maybe the photo was from 10 years ago. No thanks, I said, and sent her home. She was not happy. The second one looked like her photo, pretty face, but a little too fat. Foolishly, I had not seen any bikini photos. I figured it was my mistake, and I gave her 200 UAH for her troubles. She did not seem too upset. The third one was the opposite. I had seen a nice photo or a slim and elegant girl, but her face was a little blurred. Unfortunately, she was not very pretty. With thousands of gorgeous women all over the city, what are the odds that I would set up a date with the only ugly one? Again, I figured it was my mistake, and I gave her 200 UAH for her troubles and told her to leave. She did not seem too upset. The last one came, and only then started to negotiate. She wanted 200 Euros. I told her that for that much, I cold get the most beautiful high class prostitutes in the city (I was thinking the most expensive girls in Gia). She mentioned that some Italian guy had given her that much earlier in the week. Yes, some IDIOT Italian guy maybe. She went down to 150 USD and refused to be reasonable (that is still in the Gia range). I sent her home. She was not happy. So, there you go; guys who pay too much without thinking are ruining the market for everyone. By the way, the Gia girls give a proportion, perhaps up to 50% to the site, so the real price is about half.
SUMMARY.
For crying out loud, do not pay so much. One thousand UAH is already double the local price. Two thousand ought to be more than enough for anyone. For those who want high prices, I recommend using Gia, where most of the girls go for about 3000 UAH (150 USD, or 125 Euros), which includes a cut for the site, of course. If you are willing to pay more, stay at home.
For those who like to keep count, I was there for 11 days; I met 15 girls, 3 of them one than once, and on 4 occasions with more than one at the same time. Three or 4 were not so good, mostly because they were complainers and did not really get into the act, despite the fact that I always try to treat them like I would treat a very new girlfriend. The rest were good, very good, or mind-blowingly good. Of course, the repeats and threesomes are included in the latter group.
I told all the girls that I would be there for 2 weeks, even up to my last day, and that I would return in 2-3 months. I figured that would encourage them to do their job well, thinking that I might become a repeat customer. I also told everyone I was the on business, which was partially true, so I had more details ready, if they asked. You do not want girls to think you are just a sex tourist.
Maximize your exposure, to pros and semi-pros (the rest). Conferences, shops, restaurants, hair salons, English forums, and the street are perfectly good places to make some contacts. I saw some foreigners acting like desperate sex tourists, hitting one every girl out on the street. I assume that is not the best technique. Just be cool, smile, and if a girl makes eye contact or sits or stands close to you, say whatever comes to mind. Feel free to approach them, as if you were a man in North America back in the 50's. A simple "Hello," makes a perfectly good opening line.
Treat them well and appreciate their beauty.
Money is not a substitute for charm.
I plan to be back in September, when the market is flooded by returning students.
Originally Posted by Gopnik
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