Kyiv

[PassinThrough]

. A few hardened pros work in a fringe area of a few bars. Basically skanks without better options. But if you want to look at the eye candy on the streets and then go back to your place and rip one off with your own hand, Kiev is awesome.

So should I take that to mean that there is no good action in Kiev? There are no good bars for freelancers or I am just on my own? I was just hoping replaced River Palace even if not as big or as good. Thanks.

PIT.

[PhotoSlider]

The following pseudo-statistical analysis contains observations on my 7-weeks August-September stay in Kiev. Be forewarned, - it is lengthy, and cannot be used to find girls, as I provide no contacts. I did it mostly for vanity sake, as first month away from Ukrainian beauties is tough, but I manage, just like I did in the past.

In those 7 weeks I had a total of 28 girls.

24 are mostly hourly girls from various downtown apartments remotely managed by multiple agencies.

4 are my LT (long term) GFs. The more I think about them, the more I want to call them "rental girlfriends". I essentially buy my time with them, explicitly or indirectly doesn't matter.

One of these 4 is newly found at the downtown massage parlor, which has been subsequently shutdown.

9 deliveries with a total of 14 girls have been rejected. 5 rides had a selection of 2 girls for curbside casting, and didn't pass due to looking tired or being rude or not pretty enough or smoking. 4 rides had only 1 girl delivered, and rejected for similar reasons.

One of those 14 girls was actually paid 2000+100 UAH upon arrival, we had a drink, she stripped, went into my bed, and has been subsequently swiftly kicked out for thinking too much of herself.

Some of the 24 hourly girls have also been delivered with an alternative option, that is 2 girls delivered, and when I was "home alone", only one was taken. When the order has been placed for a visiting friend, and myself, we kept both of the girls, as I had two landing spots in my apartment, and we performed in parallel simultaneously. I never took curbside delivery for threesome, even when some of the girls explicitly proposed it, or were difficult to reject. Threesome is next to impossible with strangers. BTW, dispatchers quoted 4000 UAH to have sex with two girls at once, and 6000 if lesbi show between the girls was requested. I didn't bite.

Therefore the above count of 14 rejected is not exactly 33% or 50% of all 28 girls I had. Still 14 seems high, but my 7 weeks stay in Kiev was the longest ever.

4 out of 24 hourly girls I gave a lower rating of 5-7 for face and 5-6 body. 2 had excessive weight but were eager to accommodate, and while very much enjoyable once, I had no desire to repeat any of these 4 due to relatively easy availability of better resources.

The other 20 out of 24 hourly girls I considered "good" core, and looked into them further with analytical magnifying glass, as it interested me in terms of statistically representative set, characterizing average girls available in Kiev for 1400-2000 UAH per hour.

1 girl out of those 20 I had on 3 separate occasions. 3 out of 20 were delivered twice.

9 out of 20 I extended for the second hour. 3 out of 20 received 500 UAH bonus.

Age spanned from 18 to 26.

3 out of 20 were 26 years old and all 3 were gorgeous 9 face and 9 body. One of them looked no older than 20.

Two were sweet 18. Six were 19 years old.

Average age was 21.

Average rating for face was slightly under 8. There were none equal to or higher than 10's. But Seven girls were 9's, Six 8's, Six 7's and even one at 4 (I kept her because body was 8, I was horny, and she tried so hard! Sex was 9, and complimentary DATY at 10 for sure!

Average rating for body (again for core 20) was slightly under 9. Two were 10. Eleven girls at 9.

The latter is a major observation about Kiev girls. They have better bodies than faces.

Kiev girls work hard on improving and maintaining their bodies. Competition is fierce! Unlike dressed up beauties in the club, or face makeup, not much can be done about naked body, except eating right, working out at the gym religiously, and having good genetic material. I despise enhanced body of any sort, and there were none in this price segment.

Average attitude was slightly above 10. That's a tricky one. Only one girl got 6 for attitude, because she tried to squeeze from me a payment for DATY, after visibly enjoying it, and with my prior denial of any upsells. Otherwise her performance in bed (sex) was rated 9. Go figure!

I never pay extra for DFK or DATY or BBBJ or any extra service for that matter. Attempts to upsell quickly diminish the probability of earning a bonus, or even getting extended. BTW, bonus is never announced, it just happens when I feel like giving it. Any whining about hungry kids at home, or surgery needed for favorite dog, leads to shutdown. I also consider 1-hour extension as a bonus of sorts, even though I do it primarily for my own selfish reasons, but I always ask the girl if she wants to stay longer.

The very first hourly girl, that I had after checking in into AirBnB upon arrival, gave me Greek for free, and insisted that I go to completion, even though she wasn't totally comfortable, I asked if she wanted me to switch to more conventional, and after a short discussion she explained that she wanted me satisfied. The archetypical pinnacle of Ukrainian service! It happened to me 1 year ago with another girl, who definitely enjoyed it, and didn't even blink while doing it on two separate occasions. I personally do not care about Greek so much, but in the heat of the moment things happen)).

Going back to attitude.

6 out of 20 rated at 9.

4 out of 20 rated at 10.

4 out of 20 were definitely statistical outliers subjectively rated 12, 15, 19 and 21.

I use linear rating scale. 10 means better than 90% of population. But then there are girls that are out of this world! They make up a very slim fraction within that 10% of the best, and I give them rating above 10.21 (as in blackjack) is outstanding. Still on my subjective scale no outlier can go above 30.30 is Goddess.

Performance (sex) somewhat correlates with Attitude. Three 19 years old (out of 20 core girls) rated at 6 for lack of experience or being overworked and tired. There were no 8's. Otherwise six 9's, seven 10's, and four outliers.

Second major observation about Kiev girls: their attitudes are noticeably better than their looks (facial features), but their performance in bed (sex) is even better than attitudes. Most of the Kiev girls in the above 1400-2000 category like sex without a doubt. Surely treating them nicely is a must. So is getting them fresh, when they just start their shift. And I made a conscious effort to have fresh ones. Waited for 9-10 am and 7 pm shift starts.

I had a separate rating category. Would I go with this girl to Theater? As Kozerog stated: "Would I be proud of her?" That category didn't score as high as performance / sex, but still there were Eight 9's, Four 10's, 3 outliers at 12, 15 and 18 rating, but also three girls rated 7 and even one lowly 4 (the above mentioned hard-trying girl with ugly face and nice body). Good performer isn't always the best eye candy for going out with.

Subcategories in performance are Kissing, Vaginal, Oral / BJ, Anal and DATY.

My opinion of BJ is simple: if it's great I am happy, if there's none then I don't care much. If the girl tries and fails it can be because of poor attitude (bad rating) or genuine lack of skill for newbies (not as bad, especially if she listens and improves as we go, but still not as great).

Kissing, vaginal intercourse, and DATY are much more important to me, than BJ covered or not. BTW few hourly girls did BBBJ for free. One asked not to tell anybody, as agency forces girls to charge for extras.

I already scored sex / performance in general, so breakdown for DATY vs. DFK shows that 6 girls refused the former, but out of 14 that enjoyed cuni, only one was at 9, there rest were above.

Five were at 10, and eight outliers went above 10. Understandably this is perhaps the most subjective category, because I mainly rated my level of enjoyment during the DATY process + how responsive and delicious the young lady was. Average DATY rating over 14 girls was 13 (higher than 10, due to highly rated outliers).

It is worth mentioning that out of 28 girls total, 14 went for DATY without extra pay. Including 4 LT GFs that makes 17 = 14+3 as 1 LT "rental" GF was new, and we didn't learn each other enough yet to go all the way)).

Difficult to believe that it was well over the half 17 out of 28, but that's a hard fact. True, most of them had a drink or few, and some were evasive in the beginning, but then succumbed to the desire. Maybe Kiev girls rarely get DATY. I didn't dare to ask.

Kissing picture was interesting: slightly more girls (7) refused it, and there was a higher dispersion. Three girls were rated low at 6, 3 and 1 respectively. The other 10 out of 20 were: Three at 8, Four at 10, and 3 outliers at 17,18 and 19. Average DFK rating over 13 girls was almost 10, again due to outliers, and yet lower than average DATY of 13.

There are two observations: Kiev girls either enjoy kissing and do great (8, 10 and above), or they refuse and pretend. The other observation: Kiev girls enjoy DATY more frequently and to a greater extent than DFK. Most of DATY cases are rated high, DFK ratings distribution is more spread out.

Price range has been stated at 1400-2000+100 taxi fee. I refused to pay higher. Total money spent on 20 core girls was 71000 UAH or about 2850 USD over 37 hours.

Now the most interesting parameters:

Average hourly rate for the above 20 core girls was 1920 UAH (many were 2000+100).

Average charge per one shot on target was even higher 2125 UAH, because some of the extended sessions had only one completion. I was not in a hurry. Handling hourly girls that way (as opposed to fuck them as much and as hard as possible) helps me to convert the best ones to LT GFs more easily, or at least to get their phone numbers.

BTW, be super careful while exchanging messages with girls. I know stories of apartment enforcers checking all the messengers on premises and imposing heavy penalties of a few hundred dollars per occurrence. All they need to see a phone number of a customer.

Another example of slavery is web-camera at one of the apartments and no allowing the girls to sleep, even when they aren't engaged in primary activity one way or the other.

Anyway, since these hourly girls were on the clock by their dispatchers and mama-sans, 1920 and 2125 are dancing around my 2000 UAH / hour target price.

Same analysis for my 4 LT "rental" GFs showed even higher average rating for body and marginally lower for face, as I do not value looks that much. Their attitude, performance (sex), DFK and Style (going to Theater) are obviously rated much higher than hourly girls, because that's how I chose these GFs in the first place. DATY is slightly lower, and I attribute this to lack of novelty, fading away freshness factor, so important in DATY.

These 4 girls stayed with me an equivalent of nineteen 24-hour periods (day and night included). Yes, I like to go to sleep with a young 20, 22, 23 years old in my arms, and then make love to her at 6 in the morning, then let her sleep till 10 or 11 am, and bring her breakfast in bed.

Total expense on these 4 GFs was 100 K UAH, with one of them getting slightly more than half of it and staying over 14 days total, with some of her individual stays as short as 2 hours, and none longer than 3 days for her specifically. She is not from Kiev, but visited frequently.

Resulting individual hourly rates for rental GFs varied from 165 UAH / hour over 14 days up to 850 UAH over 2 visits 7 hours each. Significantly lower than hourly girls, even after factoring in expensive and cheap eating out, drinking at will, Theater, decent shopping, transportation and envelopes with cash.

Now the main number for LT GFs: Average charge per one shot on target was exorbitant 4000 UAH. Yes, I surely enjoyed our time together, and didn't mind extra expense as it was happening. Inevitably approaching my 60 in a few years, I do not recover that quickly, and do not pretend to have another honeymoon marathon in bed. But still, hourly girls are soooo much cheaper, if bang for the buck is most critical.

I like having a young woman next to me all the time, and lower overall hourly rate is beneficial. Hence I constantly work on updating my Harem.

There was one more reason for outrageously high 4000 UAH / shot number. Here is why it is skewed.

I delayed the arrival of my rental GF#3 due to unexpected overlap / arrival on the commuter train of the favorite GF#1. In fact I was triple booked, but Vitrea helped with offloading a great one by taking care of her. Later on after 2 days delay GF#3 finally arrived into my bed, her perfumes unpacked from the suitcase into my shower, many of her dresses hanging in the wardrobe, my hand reaching down her panties, and that's precisely when she said that she has period! Why the fuck did she arrive then? I asked myself silently but kept my cool. Well surely she wanted to be one and only, and it took me 3 days before I politely asked her to depart. That's when she said that tonight and tomorrow morning she is all mine. I used both opportunities, and watched her leave anyway. Discipline is paramount in Harem.

In the meantime the favorite GF#1 announced the same predicament. And as an icing on the cake, the 3rd one newly converted GF#4 said that we can meet today after she is done at the gym but she is also in the same condition. The luck of the draw! All three at once! I managed to have 8 hourly girls while waiting over. That is why the above 4000 number is definitely skewed.

I also thought hard about retiring GF#3 after this loosely disguised cock-blocking of hers, but she is such a good lay, very feminine, smart, and most importantly, as the best Ukrainian girls, she doesn't ask unnecessary questions. She lets me seeing other girls without any fuzz. Would be difficult to replace her. I am not sure yet.

What is the conclusion? If the main objective is to have an illusion of returning to Youth with a beautiful 20-something by your side, then hourly girls (including GIA) over longer periods of time are out of the question due to quickly accumulating costs. Out-of-town girlfriends have much lower rate. The same applies to Mamba, Tinder and other indie sources.

But the bang for the buck with LT GFs is at a much higher rate. It becomes similar to wives and lovers under permanent sponsorship. For that purpose hourly girls at 2000 UAH or perhaps 150-200 USD per few hours and 2-3 shots are the best.

Hope this was partially informational at least for some of us.

P.S. How did I find these girls? Again do not ask me for contacts. The secret is simple. Cast the wide net frequently, define the requirements clearly, have adequate funds, do not be afraid to reject and recharge, speak local language, and stay in Kiev for multiple weeks, or visit frequently.

[PhotoSlider]

River Palace was a true open market composed of freelancers. Nothing ever replaced it. A few hardened pros work in a fringe area of a few bars. Basically skanks without better options. But if you want to look at the eye candy on the streets and then go back to your place and rip one off with your own hand, Kiev is awesome.

Riding to the left river bank of Dnipro river on Kiev metro I had a good laugh seeing this fine gentleman in "River Palace" baseball cap (trying to attach the photo I managed to take and somehow it fails). All that's left of the truly great place

BTW, I never had to jerk off while in Kiev a total 20 weeks this past year. Didn't even allow erotic massage girls to do happy ending, as IMHO there is no point in wasting. One of them later became too intrigued, agreed to give me her phone number to meet outside, and after our third date asked me straight:

- I understand you cannot make up your mind and invite me to your place.

My immediate response was:

- Only if you insist.

Back at my apartment she made me a very happy man indeed, and more than once. Beautiful young lady!

[Sparta873]

"GIA / KEC as usual" for who exactly?

There is not much discussion of it in the last year or so. Last time I personally ordered a girl via GIA dispatcher was in November 2017.

I did meet 4-5 ex-GIA girls after that, the last one was in June 2019, and she behaved as a spoiled baby expecting to be pampered and worshipped. I declined, she left pissed off. I felt a huge relief, and returned to my apartment where more or less faithful and definitely committed GF has been patiently waiting for me.

Any agency serving downtown girls from multiple apartments would do. With GIA / KEC the game is over.

So what agencies do you recommend? Do they have sites? Kind of late to the game so not sure if it's worth it.

[Riina]

It has been a long time since I visited Kiev. Last time I was there the River Palace was the place to go, lots of girls looking for someone to take them home to a warm bed. I find myself heading back for a very short visit and I was wondering if there is any advice out there as to the new replacement for that floating boat of sin?

River Palace was a true open market composed of freelancers. Nothing ever replaced it. A few hardened pros work in a fringe area of a few bars. Basically skanks without better options. But if you want to look at the eye candy on the streets and then go back to your place and rip one off with your own hand, Kiev is awesome.

[Kater100]

Why do they? So that no need to show ID or be seen as a service provider in public? The feel of anonymity?

I guess that's it.

I think it's always a big hurdle when the women in the hotel have to show the ID when they want to come to you.

Whether as a "service provider" or as a "regular girl".

[PassinThrough]

It has been a long time since I visited Kiev. Last time I was there the River Palace was the place to go, lots of girls looking for someone to take them home to a warm bed. I find myself heading back for a very short visit and I was wondering if there is any advice out there as to the new replacement for that floating boat of sin? I have RTFF and continue to read back and it looks like Kiev has undergone some real changes in terms of quality and prices. I hope I am misreading things, please correct me if I am. Any and all advice is welcome and I am happy to contribute after my visit. Thanks in advance. Cheers.

PIT.

[PhotoSlider]

Correct. Also the girls prefer apartments!

Why do they? So that no need to show ID or be seen as a service provider in public? The feel of anonymity?

[PhotoSlider]

What agencies do you recommend? GIA / KEC as usual?

"GIA / KEC as usual" for who exactly?

There is not much discussion of it in the last year or so. Last time I personally ordered a girl via GIA dispatcher was in November 2017.

I did meet 4-5 ex-GIA girls after that, the last one was in June 2019, and she behaved as a spoiled baby expecting to be pampered and worshipped. I declined, she left pissed off. I felt a huge relief, and returned to my apartment where more or less faithful and definitely committed GF has been patiently waiting for me.

Any agency serving downtown girls from multiple apartments would do. With GIA / KEC the game is over.

[Tomek123]

I was in Kiev. Went to Caribbean CLub on a Thursday and it had terrible quality. 2 cute girls on a table and 1 decent one standing by the bar and that's it. I talked to the bar one and she wanted 200/ hour and would not come down. I passed.

Went with Sveta from GIA agency. Was not a good experience overall. She is very beautiful but wouldn't kiss and had a cold attitude. Blowjob was very shallow. Rushed me to finish. After first pop she was on her phone the whole time.

Sweta. Pay attention to her face. This is that type of prostitute-Topmodel. Look carefully at her face. She seems to me to believe that she is a real socialite and the whole world should be at her feet. What a funny illusion. But so often happens with these girls. Maybe she just has a constant she's a sponsor and she's no longer afraid of losing her job at this agency. We don't know. It often happens too. A girl finds some rich guy and leaves the business. I had practice with similar,prostitute-Topmodel, girls. The drawback of these girls may be that they have a slightly higher self-esteem. Also we should not forget that this profession is too hard for the female psyche and as a rule this work makes the woman hardened and makes her angry. Because it is actually a daily [CodeWord123], and far not many women can save femininity and artistry in this profession. But there are good examples. I recently had experience with Lana. I need to somehow leave a positive review. This affects the position of the girl in this corporation of sin. I was satisfied. I do not often use the services of agencies. My sex hunt occurs mainly in the Ukrainian province. Not in Kiev. But was satisfied with Lana. But I very quickly managed to subordinate her will and she quickly realized what she should do. Her weakness and softness made my erection like iron.

Her beautiful tongue. Her innocent eyes. It was all a little childish. This was something exciting. She didn't have these feminist imperious notes in her voice. This arrogance. But my behavior doesn't have it. I try to behave politely with these oriental girls. Without rudeness and anger. But firmly. Like an alpha male. You must not forget about it. From the first second you should feel the power that subjugates and dominates. You have to radiate domination if you want to have good sex with these cute UA animals. But your aesthetics can be very different — you can quote Murakami or Nietzsche or just keep quiet, or act like a black Harlem gangster guy — it doesn't matter. The style may be different, but your main idea should be male hidden Domination. I'm a predator and a male, and you will be my weak defenseless female. That's all. Will be the only way. You are a beautiful girl, but in five minutes you will stand in the pose of a dog and my cock will enter you because you are my sheep and my prey. Ou must sit confidently, you must often say, sorry, or something like that, in a word, you should get rid of all these Western complexes and overly caring for a woman in Ukraine as soon as possible. You must get rid of of all that is the essence of feminized Western civilization and culture. That is, you should not apologize, ask, be too reverent and attentive to a woman. But you should not go to the other extreme and behave like some guys from Turkey. This is also not too much self-reliant strategy. Your posture and look must be sure. You can use the style of, gangster, or the style of a professor of literature from Oxford, it doesn't matter. It's just a style. The idea itself is important. And your idea in Ukraine or Russia can be only one. You are above a woman, and she dutifully stands in a dog pose. By the way I need to draw my sex with Lana.

How can a man get the sharpest hot animal sex? The answer is simple. What excites a man most of all? What turns him into a wild animal, which gives the man the most acute powerful orgasm? What gives a powerful influx of testosterone into the blood and gives a man the greatest pleasure during sex with a woman? This is the idea of Domination. If a woman is arrogant or speaks too much, if she tries to be above you in bed, then you most likely will not get a real powerful orgasm and pleasure. Why? Because in Nature the male dominates and not the female.

Your style of behavior may be different, but the idea within you must be one-force and dominance. It doesn't matter if you are a subtle esthetic writer or play the role of a mafia guy.

[Sparta873]

AirBnB. More space. Cheaper.

Unless you have Hilton points or your corporate pays, most of Forum members prefer apartments. There are some that stay at the hotel.

What agencies do you recommend? GIA / KEC as usual?

[Kater100]

AirBnB. More space. Cheaper.

Unless you have Hilton points or your corporate pays, most of Forum members prefer apartments. There are some that stay at the hotel.

Correct. Also the girls prefer apartments!

[PhotoSlider]

Hi all,

I'm traveling to Kiev soon and was wondering about the hotels' escort policies. Which upmarket hotels are the most girl-friendly (in terms of not questioning her or checking IDs or not having swipe elevator access and allowing her to come straight up to the room)? Do you prefer hotels or apartments?

AirBnB. More space. Cheaper.

Unless you have Hilton points or your corporate pays, most of Forum members prefer apartments. There are some that stay at the hotel.

[Sparta873]

Hi all,

I'm traveling to Kiev soon and was wondering about the hotels' escort policies. Which upmarket hotels are the most girl-friendly (in terms of not questioning her or checking IDs or not having swipe elevator access and allowing her to come straight up to the room)? Do you prefer hotels or apartments?

[SuperLove]

In the land of pussy galore, loud shout to all pussy and ass lovers. Lets meet and make them scream loud.