Kyiv

[PhotoSlider]

Here is my new proposed initial Viber / Whatsapp message, much shorter and less aggressive than the previous version.

I would make it even shorter without giving out so much information: address, price range, age, nationality. You overthink, over-engineer it. Too many assumptions. Keep it simple. Agency doesn't care. Say downtown. They send you few girls, and if there are no complaints, they keep doing their routine over and over, as long as you pay, and don't abuse. After you had 3 or more in a short time interval, they start recognizing you.

My personal record was 5 agency girls delivered separately within 24 hour span interleaved with 8+ hours of cute 7 grade MILF. She was quite versatile, well beyond the usual "half and half", didn't negotiate, called me "husband", left drunk with 2500 UAH total, that I stuck in her pocket on the way out. That was our second date. She didn't return my Viber messages after that. I thought I didn't give her enough money, and was told by her roommate that she was ashamed of her own behavior, that is of what she allowed me to do with her. Through that roommate (a good friend of mine, known to some on this Forum) MILF will get a nice surprise for this Valentine's day. We-Vibe Sync, that I can control remotely across the Internet from my smartphone, and intend to use later in person when we meet. I know for a fact she'll be fascinated.

But I digress as usual without helping anybody.

Not sure how sending your acceptable price range affects your expenses. Agency may send the very same girls with individual markup created just for you. Do the reverse check on the pix they send you, if you have time. Ask if there's anything online, or do tineye + google image search on laptop. Another agency tried to send me 1300 UAH girl for 1800.

If one of your repeat girls is from the agency ask her what the rules are. The confident ones explained to me how it works.

[PhotoSlider]

Are there any elevation in the security level in KBP airport, after the fall of Antonov?

That aircraft fell or rather fell apart in the air in a different country few hundred kilometers to the North-East from KBP. There are more pressing matters in Ukraine than that Antonov to keep security as elevated as it is. I would be more concerned with corrupt Ukrainian customs.

I will visit Kiev next week.

I visited three times in a row in a month last year, which alerted the immigration and the custom.

I had to spend a long time to explain that I came to Kiev for sex, which was not a pleasant hour.

Is it a typo or did you say to passport control / immigration that you came to the great country of Ukraine to have sex?

[Deer1234]

Are there any elevation in the security level in KBP airport, after the fall of Antonov?

I will visit Kiev next week.

I visited three times in a row in a month last year, which alerted the immigration and the custom.

I had to spend a long time to explain that I came to Kiev for sex, which was not a pleasant hour.

[Wgmm99]

I had some back and forth with this one:

https://www.mamba.ru/mb1755339692

She seemed to pass the sniff test. I have had some luck with mamba in the past and believe it or not, after the back and forth, and based on a few gems I found over the years, she seemed like she could be real.

She was not.

She looked like the girl in the photos if the girl in the photos was 4-5 years older (which would be fine). Sent her packing. Gave her 100 grivna for taxi to avoid scandal.

I did some research on the number and it didn't seem like agency but if it might be and we are allowed to post numbers, her number is 097XXXX62.

Heads up boys!

[PhotoSlider]

Girl can easily create dream castle of having such a guy fall in love with her, marry her, take her back to his rich country where she gets to raise children at home while he goes off to earn a big salary each day, etc.

You nailed it, man! If Tsenxoa positioned it right, making the girl feel that this is a romantic date, instead of P4P, then she had great time and made 1000 or even 3000 UAH, which is wonderful for a young student girl no matter what. Plus promise of a dream in the future, pursuit of happiness).

There is a shortage of men in Kiev in their 30's with enough money to be worth marrying, and most girls there, including semi-pros, have a dream of marriage and children somewhere in their minds.

Good one yet again. There is a shortage of men in Kiev regardless of age. And marrying or simply finding a good sponsor provider is the ultimate goal that is omnipresent in the air.

It is unusual for a Western male of any age to feel wanted by Ukrainian females. Ladies turn their heads at the restaurant and scan your cloth, shoes, haircut and smile as you enter even when they already sit with someone. Great looking hairdresser rubs her thighs while having a nice chat with you, that ends up with her phone number in your pocket, and her coworkers and other customers around make no notice about it, because it's perfectly fine, even though you look significantly older. Doesn't matter!

Even me (maybe I could be more cheerful like PhotoSlider but I doubt it), gets signs of interest by ordinary non-working girls in their 30's. For girls in their 20's, on the other hand, you have to be 30's and good-looking to make them interested.

Depends where you are. I got the phone number of a 22 years old buffet girl at the Opera easily. Yes I was nicely dressed up for the occasion with a bow tie and everything. My girlfriend made sure I didn't overdo before we left for the Opera. Importance of that has been mentioned here before.

I am more of a jeans and a T-shirt man. Which didn't matter after establishing closer relationships. I did see my girlfriends checking out how I look though before leaving for theater. They want their man looking good, to be proud of him. And asking them to help with your cuff-links and cravat and shirt buttons opens up so many options for foreplay, that would later continue in the mezzanine). Mezzanine is far better than parterre, because foreplay insensibly ends up on the bed, and then the happy couple arrives late for the overture.

PhotoSlider is right that I am being too aggressive in my advice a few pages back and that will spoil the mood. And in fact, I wasn't so aggressive during my time in Kiev, especially not with the jewel I eventually found, nor did I need to be aggressive. She turned her smartphone off without my asking and I turned mine off, money was spread out on the table when she arrived and so we didn't have to discuss it or count it, she looked like her photos. All my aggressive rules were because of previous bad experiences. Those rules will screen the bad girls, but as PhotoSlider suggests, they may also drive off the good girls. I am going to think more about this, in case I have to go back to digging through the $50 bargain bin..

Now you are talking!) Agree 200%.

[Kozerog]

Here is my new proposed initial Viber / Whatsapp message, much shorter and less aggressive than the previous version:

Hi XXX (name of girl on profile where you found phone number).

How are things with you? I hope you are having a very nice day.

I saw your profile at XXX. I am XXX nationality businessman aged XXX visiting Kiev for XXX days staying at XXX street. I can pay XXX for 1 hour outcall plus XXX taxi fare. I would like to see you XXX (next few hours, this evening, tomorrow afternoon) for these services: XXX, XXX. I would like to be able to extend session to XXX hours for additional price of XXX if things go well.

If this is an agency, please send me some recent photos of girls available XXX (next few hours, this evening, tomorrow afternoon). I am only interested in girls with no tattoos who speak XXX (basic, intermediate, fluent) English or XXX (German, French etc).

I look forwards to hearing from you.

XXX (name you use).

Reason for mentioning nationality is some nationalities have good reputation, others not so good. Businessman aged 45 sounds much better than football hooligan aged 20. Visiting for several weeks means potential repeat customer. You could also include a photo of yourself in your Viber profile, if you are good-looking and not worried about privacy.

I took out warning about sending girls away if they don't match photo. In my experience, photos of agency girls never match what is on web page where you found agency, but photos did match what agency sent me via Viber. Photos of independent girls are usually from several years ago and photoshopped, but I had already assumed that so no big surprise. I'm not that picky about looks anyway. Most girls 40 years younger than me look pretty now that I am old. Attitude is more important than looks.

I also removed rule about money on table. This is to prevent girls from running off without providing any service, which is a big problem in some places, but probably not a problem with agency girls in Kiev. Being drugged and robbed by independents is what you have to worry about in Kiev. My feeling is that money on table until end of session gives psychological leverage to make girl behave, which is why I prefer it. Also, it is low class to pocket money before services rendered, like how you have to pay in advance at McDonalds before you get your food, versus paying afterwards at a nice restaurant. Leaving counted money on table until end of session is compromise between paying before and paying after. Better independent girls put their purse next to money on table and left money alone until end of session without my asking. However, agency girls are instructed to count and put money into their purse immediately. Sometimes I insisted on money remaining on table and agency agreed after girl called them to discuss, sometimes I didn't bother insisting. I must admit, it didn't give a good impression for me to shout at dispatcher in a mix of English and bad Russian while girl stood there shaking her head.

Not all girls misbehaved, just some, and some of those that initially misbehaved I was able to seduce into behaving nicely later. As PhotoSlider notes, Kiev is like a lottery, but a lottery with odds strongly in your favor if you have time and money. You have to take bad luck with good luck. I am very happy with jewel I eventually found, and it is good I didn't foolishly drive her away with those aggressive rules I suggested previously. She mentioned that she could usually tell exactly what sort of man she was dealing with by his initial Viber message and that she refused lots of men because they were rude.

[PhotoSlider]

The story was not realistic.

1. The guy is a newbie in Kiev. First report (and the one and only) report in this forum.

2. His attitude was snooty. No Viber = No meeting. Too much money = No meeting. 1000 UAH per hour. Not more. I wonder that any beautiful girl answered his offer. Yes. 1000 UAH per hour is not impossible. But you have to use another tactic. For example "Meeting 100 $". If the girl will stay for 2-3 hours, it's a good business. But if you offer directly 1000 UAH per hour a lot of girls expect that you say bye-bye after one hour. And they don't agree.

3. he was only searching in Mamba.

I do not know him. Just playing a devil's advocate:

1. he must have read Kiev Forum before his first post, and used the rational part of it for mamba hunting.

I doubt he will post any more reports after overwhelmingly negative response from the Forum. Or was it disbelief caused by the envy?

2. You can not be pleased ever. Overpay means spoiling the girls! Underpay means not realistic. Believe or not, girls still do it even for free in Kiev. The most beautiful ones. With much older gentlemen. He must be younger, more confident and attractive in many ways. Hence higher success for much less money.

3. he didn't say it was easy. On the contrary, he invested time. But he didn't follow the typical rules, and had better luck. Maybe the reason for his success is because he avoided typical mistakes?

He found young girls and students because his initial screening didn't accept anything else. I am usually less picky, yet 90% of my selection process concentrates in the same demographic sector. I like them young and educated.

4. he didn't say anywhere his girls were "10". He said he liked them all. One of the girls was only 5 feet tall, making her 1 m52 cm. Is it a "10" to all of us?

5. Did anybody see his mamba profile? Assumptions, negativity and unsubstantiated dismissal. Maybe he can teach a few things about mamba.

6. It's the opposite. He doesn't need this book. He is cool because he already read it. Solid book BTW.

Going back to post by Roll Buzz:

It's a time for friendly advice and discussion of adult matters, your writings must have some value for others. Peace to all.

IMO Tsnexoa provided not only a rare positive report, but also a number of good friendly suggestions.

[Kozerog]

The story was not realistic.

1. The guy is a newbie in Kiev. First report (and the one and only) report in this forum.

2. His attitude was snooty. No Viber = No meeting. Too much money = No meeting. 1000 UAH per hour. Not more. I wonder that any beautiful girl answered his offer. Yes. 1000 UAH per hour is not impossible. But you have to use another tactic. For example "Meeting 100 $". If the girl will stay for 2-3 hours, it's a good business. But if you offer directly 1000 UAH per hour a lot of girls expect that you say bye-bye after one hour. And they don't agree.

3. he was only searching in Mamba. Everybody knows it's not so easy anymore. He found only young girls and students. No girls with a wired background. No girl with a big problem. No girls with child (and no father who can help with money).

His story is not unrealistic if he is in his 30's and good-looking. Girl can easily create dream castle of having such a guy fall in love with her, marry her, take her back to his rich country where she gets to raise children at home while he goes off to earn a big salary each day, etc. There is a shortage of men in Kiev in their 30's with enough money to be worth marrying, and most girls there, including semi-pros, have a dream of marriage and children somewhere in their minds. Even me, an old man who looks old (my body is good shape, but what can I do about my skin?) and acts old (maybe I could be more cheerful like PhotoSlider but I doubt it, can't teach an old dog new trick.), gets signs of interest by ordinary non-working girls in their 30's who desperately want to find a husband with money to start a family with, to speak nothing of single mothers in their 30's who also want a husband with money. That should tell you something right there. For girls in their 20's, on the other hand, you have to be 30's and good-looking to make them interested.

As for the book he mentioned, it's one of those dating guides, and a stupid one at that. According to Amazon, the book recommends "be honest about who you are, instead of trying to deceive, and you will be successful with women". The author of this useless advice is young and good-looking and with good social skills. If I'm honest about who I am, beautiful girls in their 20's or 19 are not going to be interested, which is why I have to pay them to compensate. Being honest would get me older women (50's and 60's), but I am no longer interested in older women. (Curiously, I was interested in women aged 40-60 when I was in my 20's, thus up to 30 years older, whereas now I want women 30 or more years younger.).

PhotoSlider is right that I am being too aggressive in my advice a few pages back and that will spoil the mood. And in fact, I wasn't so aggressive during my time in Kiev, especially not with the jewel I eventually found, nor did I need to be aggressive. She turned her smartphone off without my asking and I turned mine off, money was spread out on the table when she arrived and so we didn't have to discuss it or count it, she looked like her photos. All my aggressive rules were because of previous bad experiences. Those rules will screen the bad girls, but as PhotoSlider suggests, they may also drive off the good girls. I am going to think more about this, in case I have to go back to digging through the $50 bargain bin.

BTW my jewel was independent, not agency girl. So she gets to keep entire $50/ hour and I paid for 3 hours at a time and saw her multiple times, which is good money by Kiev standards. So incentive to behave nicely.

[Misterxxx]

It seems Kiev has changed a lot in 6 months. When I was there 6 months ago, nearly no one agree for 1000 UAH for 1 hour. Only one agreed and she was a 5. Well I didn't take her, I don't go to Kiev to fuck a 5.
3000 UAH for 2-3 hours, yes that's realistic, but not every girls agree with that. Some just ask 2000-3000 for 1 hour.
If it's true, it seems that the prices are going down, at least for the hour. But I doubt it.

The story was not realistic.

1. The guy is a newbie in Kiev. First report (and the one and only) report in this forum.

2. His attitude was snooty. No Viber = No meeting. Too much money = No meeting. 1000 UAH per hour. Not more. I wonder that any beautiful girl answered his offer. Yes. 1000 UAH per hour is not impossible. But you have to use another tactic. For example "Meeting 100 $". If the girl will stay for 2-3 hours, it's a good business. But if you offer directly 1000 UAH per hour a lot of girls expect that you say bye-bye after one hour. And they don't agree.

3. he was only searching in Mamba. Everybody knows it's not so easy anymore. He found only young girls and students. No girls with a wired background. No girl with a big problem. No girls with child (and no father who can help with money).

4. he directly found a "10" for every day of the week. No information about girls who didn't come, didn't look as nice as on their photos. Bad attitude. An experience that nearly every traveller made in Kiev. Everything was simply perfect (and cheap).

5. he gave advice about how to pimp your profile in Mamba. Most of us know: Photos are important, but it's not so easy as he told us. If you put artistical photos, Mamba will refuse them. If you put very professional photos or photos with elegant background (travelling, expensive car), girls will ask for more money. No girl in Kiev wants to meet a "rich man", because he is rich. Everybody knows what a man wants if he offers money on Mamba. No relationship. Just sex. And if the photos looking too professional the girls expect that it's not you. They expect stolen photos from the internet.

6. he tried to promote a book (e-book). Hey, this guy is so cool. Why he needs this book. ?

[Volpone]

A trip report, for those interested.

TL, DR: Great trip, all girls were great 4/5 students, very nice, no issues or bait and switch or money issues. A+++ would recommend. Not sure I will go back due to Kiev being such a maddeningly drab city. I donated 1000 UAH / HR, max 3000 UAH. All stayed for about 2-3 h min, Thursday even longer. All kissed and GFE etc etc.

It seems Kiev has changed a lot in 6 months. When I was there 6 months ago, nearly no one agree for 1000 UAH for 1 hour. Only one agreed and she was a 5. Well I didn't take her, I don't go to Kiev to fuck a 5.

3000 UAH for 2-3 hours, yes that's realistic, but not every girls agree with that. Some just ask 2000-3000 for 1 hour.

If it's true, it seems that the prices are going down, at least for the hour. But I doubt it.

[GunningPeter]

Most of these phone numbers are hidden agencies using fake potos. What I advise is a Viber message like this: to several phone numbers from the site:

Hi XXX,

How are things with you? I hope you are having a very nice day.

I am XXX nationality businessman aged XXX visiting Kiev for XXX days staying at XXX street. I can pay XXX for 1 hour outcall plus XXX taxi fare. I would like to see you now, and I want these services: XXX, XXX. I want to be able to extend session by XXX hours for additional price of XXX if I am enjoying myself.

If you are independent, please send me a photo taken now with your smartphone holding a piece of paper with my Viber number written on it.

If this is an agency, please send me some recent photos of girls available now. I am only interested in girls with NO TATTOOS who speak (basic, intermediate, fluent) English or XXX (German, French etc).

Rule 1: I will meet girl outside and if she does not match photo you sent, I will send her away WITHOUT taxi money. There is no excuse for fake photos.

Rule 2: Smartphone must be turned to silent mode, so no beeping sounds during session. Also, no looking at smartphone until end of session.

Thanks very much!

[PhotoSlider]

A trip report, for those interested.

TL, DR: Great trip, all girls were great 4/5 students, very nice, no issues or bait and switch or money issues. A+++ would recommend. Not sure I will go back due to Kiev being such a maddeningly drab city. I donated 1000 UAH / HR, max 3000 UAH. All stayed for about 2-3 h min, Thursday even longer. All kissed and GFE etc etc.

...snip...

In the end, every single person was relaxed, friendly, not a clock watcher, and GFE+++++++++ maxxxxxx. No bait and switch, but I did play a hard game on mamba. If they gave me grief about showing newer photos or wouldn't share their viber number, I didn't meet them. Use your wits about you mates, if it smells TGTBT it probably is.

Was a good time, Will I go back? If I have to for work, yes, and maybe to see Thursday again, we had that good of a time. But I am not Slavic, don't speak Russian / Ukrainian, and really, really did not jive with Kiev. But the girls and the people there overall were very very relaxed and nice, and the women beautiful. The culture is not mine though, and I don't have a desire to learn it. If you did learn Russian / Ukrainian, you'd have an even better time. But I honestly have nothing but positive things to say about the people, in and outside of the bedroom.

Great report! Thank you so much for honesty, attention to detail and being positive, even while stating you didn't like the city itself.

One question, if you have time to answer: What would be your alternative to Kiev? Both for mongering, and separately for vacation without extra-curriculum activities.

[PhotoSlider]

What's the trouble with you guys? Why do you take a everything so personally here? It's a time for friendly advice and discussion of adult matters, not playschool behaviour. I mean, we need not be like Sunday school kids, but your writings must have some value for others. Peace to all.

Indeed, we are going in circles, and those circles at times form a downward spiral. Whose dick is thicker and longer.

To simplify. There are two radical points of view on the subject matter at hand here:

1. Kiev is full of cheaters in any line of business. Beware at every step, turn and corner, protect your wallet, do not believe anybody. All the decent girls left the country for greener pastures.

This opinion is supposedly shared to help others not to fall into any traps.

IMHO, some of us succeed or suffer in Kiev more than others for certain reasons, and the latter ones paint too grim of a picture, without admitting their own miscalculations. It is easier to place the blame elsewhere, thus resigning to mediocrity.

2. Kiev is a top destination (top 5, top 10). Money helps to a certain degree. Time invested in preparation helps up to a point. Your own positive attitude and sufficiently high IQ are critical. Some call it "having a game". Kiev is still a lottery. With realistic expectations and cards played right one can have amazingly incomparable time.

IMHO, age difference plays to our benefit. You wouldn't believe how many times Kiev girls confided in me their displeasure with younger boys, sincerely saying that their peers male students, etc. Are useless, annoying and irritating. Not only because of lacking money, but simply not interesting in many ways. Certainly there is a higher attraction to more fit, better dressed, well versed gentleman as compared to obese untidy person of any gender and age.

There is another well known phenomenon. Many ladies didn't have a decent father figure in their lives, and there is a strong subconscious affection for middle aged men, that crosses over into sex appeal and doesn't interfere with it, - on the contrary, - it helps to build a stronger relationship, if there's a mutual desire to do so.

I visited Kiev more than 10 times. Would go there now in a heartbeat.

Had a discussion with 2 ladies few months ago. But first a story already mentioned here: I met both of them separately. Both were great, but in a different way. Asya from Nikolaev / Mykolaiv had numerous tattoos, claimed that she loved her husband, and he is waiting for her in 15 minutes, but continued to fuck in the most energetic and selfless manner.

The second one Sasha from Kiev, at first refused to kiss in the most creative way, by playfully saying: "I don't kiss. But those aren't the only lips I have. " Then after her 2nd orgasm, I had a prior obligation to attend to, and she exclaimed in the most sincere way: "You are so classy! I always get disappointed leaving people like you".

Then I met Sasha again and she was the as enthusiastic as ever. And the third occasion was when my wing-man suggested to call the agency after having a light dinner. By that time it was well over 15 girls ordered from this agency in the last 10 days, good rapport established, I didn't even have to mention my address or any requirements, only asking for 3-4 fresh completely new classy young ladies delivered, so that we can choose.

Yet I had to scold the cheaters, as the taxi door opens, and familiar friends Asya + Sasha jump out at us with wide smiles, saying: "They told your address for outcall, and we both said me me me send me please! I want to go there".

Why do I repeat this old story? Because when we poured the drinks in my kitchen, I stated to girls: "Everybody lies! Age is always lowered by at least 2 years!" Sasha pulled out her student ID, and offendedly objected: "But I am 19 years old! Look, I am nineteen!

Making both me and my wing-man well over 30 years older than her. Asya was 22. Same. We paid 100 UAH for round trip taxi upon their arrival + 1900 UAH / hour for each. Money was given to unlucky no-name redhead that was dismissed, pouted her lips and left untouched.

Asya started with DFK and complaints that agency strictly prohibits kissing.

Value and friendly advice? Forget about being old enough to be their grandfather, because I am too. Try having a great time to the best of your ability. Girls feel any sense of mistrust or insecurity, and respond accordingly. Yes, they want money before anything, yet keeping dignity in relationship helps to enjoy it to fuller extent. It is quite possible that FKK in Germany is a better fit for you, because it is regulated and managed differently, as a more transactional process.

Kiev's highest beauty is in its random unpredictability. When all of a sudden 180 cm tall 20 yo Violetta from Poltava walks into your life for 1800 UAH and 60 minutes, and you can clearly see in her eyes that she is fully aware of how great she is. And she is happy to share that gift of nature with you, if you are up to it. Talking to her about smartphone and crisp 500 UAH banknotes at this moment destroys the dream. Get it out of the way quickly and without unnecessary stress for everybody, then let the lady act for you, and sip the drink of love. Auguste Rodin was 24 years older than his famous lover Camille Claudel. She was 18 when they met. Read up. Examples are abundant.

Certainly there are differences between GIA, mamba, Tinder, IG and other channels, which has been discussed here to the point that some great contributors left the Forum. Why did they leave? Because explaining how terrible Kiev is certainly not a friendly advice, and it doesn't add any tangible value.

In the past I jokingly suggested to adopt some of my girlfriends. They laugh, refuse and continue making my life ever so rewarding.

[Guntherus]

What's the trouble with you guys? Why do you take a everything so personally here? It's a time for friendly advice and discussion of adult matters, not playschool behaviour. I mean, we need not be like Sunday school kids, but your writings must have some value for others. Peace to all.

[Jymondor]

Great. Thanks for sharing. You shouldn't be here. The forum doesn't allow pimps.

Pimp. A man who controls prostitutes and arranges clients for them, taking part of their earnings in return.

I do not control prostitutes an do not take part of their earnings. I book them, use them, and spend my money on them. I believe you misunderstood some terms.