Kyiv

[DramaFree11]

This is funny. I met a hot, expensive, Ukrainian model type girl in Moscow, and she recommended I go to Ukraine.

I told her I only like beautiful girls.

Planning a trip to Ukraine in August. I speak understandable Russian.

Any high quality models contacts. Pm me.

Good websites with verified pictures, pm me too.

If you want to go to Kiev, no problem, good luck with that. Definitely do not go in August, that is the worst time of year. Go to Odessa or go late Sept, everyone is on holiday. It will be you and all the Sex Tourist.

[DramaFree11]

City empties at night.

This is the funniest thing I've ever heard about Kiev.

October-March, City is empty at night. Subtract the Sex Tourist in the Summer / Spring, I am sure it is pretty empty.

[Riina]

You have to pay more than your competitors to secure your quality pussy supply.

Not really. Girls come and go. It's more a matter of just getting out there and exploiting the moment. Of course, that costs.

[AntonySun1996]

Some people just can't stop shit talking Kiev and exaggerating the negative parts of the city in every possible way.

DramaFree11 claimed that Kiev is the worst city for mongering in the world. This is ridiculously wrong if you have got common sense. I am 100% sure that Luxembourg and Pyongyang are worse cities for mongering. If Kiev is the worst there would be not repeated sex tourists from abroad to Kiev, which is far from true. You may not like Kiev but please do not spread misleading messages.

I don't think he is doing this because he is paid by Moscow nightclubs or Kremlin or whatever, but rather more likely because of some sort of PTSD acquired from previous bad experience in Kiev. I am talking seriously as this sort of thing does happen a lot. Just get over it, or seek help if needed. Apologies if this is not the case.

Parts of his posts about the downside of Kiev mongering scene are true, but this could be applied to almost any city in the world, Moscow, Bangkok, Tokyo, Beijing, London, you name it. No need to be picky when talking about Kiev. Yeah, before the Maidan revolution the prices were cheaper and there were more hot girls, in the 90's there were even more hotties charging significantly less, and back in 1945 you could fuck a bunch of 10's with a few slices of bread. There's no point constantly talking about the downside, as it happens every day, everywhere. Simply because the golden day were gone doesn't make Kiev lose all of its attractiveness.

So here are my humble thoughts about Kiev. Besides the general quality and quantity of young girls engaged in sex industry or just civilian girls accessible to foreign mongers, the fact that western feminism hasn't managed to prevail in Ukraine makes the mongering experience more pleasant compared to some western countries. Kiev is also less racist than perhaps most of other white Caucasian cities in terms of mongering. The political correctness hasn't been established in Kiev and girls sometimes say and words or something like that, but in most cases girls don't give a shit about your ethnicity as long as you got money. In England many working girls just write "sorry I don't meet black people / Arabs / Indians / Pakistani / etc."

Maybe Moscow is better, but Kiev is certainly not the worst. I myself had a few decent punts in Moscow, but did not stay there long enough to be qualified to compare between the two cities.

[AntonySun1996]

If a business pays above market rates to an employee, because that employee is worth more to them than market rate (such as because they don't have time to find and train a replacement, or employee's skills are specialized and so would not be as highly valued by market as by current employer, etc) does that mean employee is a financial submissive because he / she accepts above market pay? Too bad I didn't get abusively financially dominated like that back when I was working. We used the term golden handcuffs back then.

Similarly, lots of good reasons for overpaying a working girl. Maybe I'm not attractive enough to have experienced "you don't pay for sex, you pay them to go away afterwards" but I definitely understood the concepts of paying for a option on someone's time, paying to block potential competitors, paying extra so as to be first in line, etc. Those are more or less the reasons I pay my jewel list price of 4000 uah for 4 hours, with no regular customer discount, and additionally gave $1500 bonus at our last session of last summer. I want to make myself a valuable customer, so that she arranges her schedule so accommodate mine and otherwise tries to retain my business.

Same reason I've arranged to pay my regular landlady her going airbnb rate of $26/ day, in cash and without asking for long term discount for 3 month stay. That relationship is also long term and I want to be seen as a valued client, rather than a penny pinching haggler who'd she rather not see again..

Agree with your point.

The difference between shoes and girls is that you can always find shoes of good quality whenever you go to the market, while supply of quality girls is scarce and their is a great competition among the horny mongers, let alone paying for sex is illegal in most countries. Sex as a commodity is way more complicated than shoes or cruel oil. You have to pay more than your competitors to secure your quality pussy supply. This is also true in other service industries. Some people would pay a large amount of money to a lawyer with excellent skills, way above the industry norm.

As for love, money can't buy love, but money can buy the time that the girl would like to spend with you, and during the time you spend together the girl could have more chance learning about your attractive personalities, which sometimes would lead to love (remember this could backfire if you had terrible personalities). This already worked on me and my girl told me she loves me recently.

[AntonySun1996]

1. Too Many Scams and everyone lies. (Lying is a sport in Kiev, both male and females take part in this.

A. I got tired of watching friends getting screwed over.

2. Zero Night Life.

3. Way too many low end Sex Tourists pretending to be Italian Dudes.

4. Top Tier and Educated leaving the country.

A. Never talked about by the so called experts on this site, amazing. Major problem.

5. Strip Clubs and Top end Agencies major rip off to bang 6's or even lower, for $150 an hour or more, no way.

6. Why would anyone fly around the world to bang 5/6 for more money, then they would pay in there native country, makes zero sense.

City empties at night.

This is the funniest thing I've ever heard about Kiev.

[AntonySun1996]

Completely delusional, not sure why he makes these statements, I guess to try and make himself look good. He is the last person to listen to in Kiev. Anthony started off bad, but now is giving real good advice about Kiev, much better source.

People learn from their previous mistakes, don't they?

Just because one started off bad doesn't mean he's disqualified of giving advises. No need to say Kiev is a mongering spot where 90% newbies fail.

[Super6stud9]

This is funny. I met a hot, expensive, Ukrainian model type girl in Moscow, and she recommended I go to Ukraine.

I told her I only like beautiful girls.

Planning a trip to Ukraine in August. I speak understandable Russian.

Any high quality models contacts. Pm me.

Good websites with verified pictures, pm me too.

Completely agree with report. If you spend any more then $100-150 hour in Kiev you are completely wasting your money. You can go to any of the Surrounding Countries, and bang top tier girls, for the same price or cheaper, these girls are just not available in Kiev, especially now. Especially for newbies. Guys like to claim these girls are readily available, but in my opinion they are just not available anymore, unless you work in Kiev, speak the language or have major local contacts, but even then very difficult, if not impossible.

When I was living there and the major decline became very noticeable, we had a joke among my friends, if you wanted to find a Hot Ukraine girl, you needed to go to a different country. I was shocked the number of Ukraine Girls I met in Moscow and trust me that was not on purpose, I try to avoid them, but I have to say the once that I did meet in Moscow, I did like much better then the girls I was meeting on my last couple of trips in Kiev. They were much more driven, hard working, and I had zero issues with scams with those girls, unlike what I was dealing with in Kiev. I real find it strange how this is mentioned so little on this site, because it is a major drawback. I think the guys that like Kiev, choose to ignore this issue.

As far as finding girls in Kiev, still possible, but does take a lot of work. If you have street game, you have chance, but slim. Meeting girls on the computer can be very difficult, as said by many.

[Hecker]

The options in Kiev are sponsoring, semipros and pros with the occasional freebie. Till 2017 I arranged simply with semipros from mamba since there were plenty of them and very good options. From 2017 and free visa for Ukrainians I prefer sponsoring which is very expensive but it is the only way to get 8's as tourist. With pros and semipros you get maximum 7's.

But to find and keep the sponsorettes you have to come often, have pick up skills and spend a lot, about 500 euro per day. You have to build a harem from regulars otherwise it is not worth coming to Kiev in my opinion.

[Hecker]

What clubs?

Carribean and Chi. This is what Dramafree complains about. If you go to Carribean Arabs and Turks will destroy you since the club is full of them and for Chi you need to pay 300 euro for table to get in so why bother?

And in mamba, tinder you have very little choice after 2017 and free visa for Ukrainian girls who can visit their sponsors in the West. So why bother and not travel to a more closed country like Russia?

This has some logic but one has to analyze the whole situation it is not so simple. It is also very individual some get frightened by mass presence of Arab Turks and others see them as prey, very easy competition. It is also cultural where you come from.

[Arkiloko]

fake profiles, low quality girls, bad service, scams everywhere, etc.

That's like everywhere. Come on people, which country doesn't have these stuff on sex turism scene?

Maybe some new country, some place closed till yesterday. But pimps know the game, girsl too.

Yes, maybe 10 years ago it was different, here or there. But now, with internet and globalization.

I think you can't easy find an heaven for sex, not an hour away from Europe.

I know Poland and Ukraine, I've been in Bulgaria. The only place I met nice girls, not fake and price fixed are FKK.

[DramaFree11]

I am not advocating Moscow, I only talk about it because, I go there frequently and love it. Let's be clear, I think any country is currently better then Kiev. Especially if you are paying any more than $120, and you are interested in meeting attractive girls. Ukraine should be your last choice, unless you have a very small budget, then Latin America or Asia.

[Kozerog]

DramaFree11 I have seen many of your successful posts in Moscow thread. I just do not know why you want to be active in this thread if you do not like Ukraine. Can I ask if this is your home country?

At one time, I suspected he was paid by some Moscow nightclub to lure people who were planning to go to Ukraine, to instead go to that nightclub in Moscow. But his posting history shows that very unlikely. He's just a guy who gets hooked on some idea and won't let go until he convinces everyone else he's right. And there is truth in what he says. Namely:

1) Kyiv does not work well for short-term mongers without existing contact list, unless you are satisfied with KEC (both prices and girls).

2) Most guys who fail in Kyiv are too discouraged and embarrassed to tell their story in this forum.

The Moscow thread has guys complaining about the same things DramaFree11 complains about in Kyiv: fake profiles, low quality girls, bad service, scams everywhere, etc. DramaFree11 says those complaints are because the guys are hopeless losers who would fail no matter where they go. I suspect DramaFree11 somehow found a system that works for him in Moscow, and now he is a repeat customer so gets consistent good service, but there are also lots ways to fail in Moscow, same as in Kyiv. Similarly, I and Stevie69 and PhotoSlider have found systems that work for us in Kyiv. Without a system, failure is likely on both Moscow and Kyiv, IMO.

What's definitely true is that baseline cost level in Kyiv is currently less than half that of Moscow. Furthermore, there's a good chance the ruble will recover value versus dollar / euro and Moscow will have another boom and again be one of the most expensive cities in the world. So if you put in a lot of work now building a mongering system in Moscow, your costs might skyrocket in the future, and then what? Whereas Kyiv much less likely to become very expensive in future, so the work you put in to build a system can last a lifetime without ever becoming too expensive. That's my long term thinking.

[DramaFree11]

DramaFree11 I have seen many of your successful posts in Moscow thread. I just
do not know why you want to be active in this thread if you do not like Ukraine. Can I ask if this is your home country?

Lived three on 3 separate occasions and have visited in many occasions. Just not a good place now, beside being cheap, and nice city for walking, not for me. Too many scams and I do not find the girls attractive at all anymore, Also, I love the night life and that is real bad or non existent.

[Visal]

DramaFree11 I have seen many of your successful posts in Moscow thread. I just do not know why you want to be active in this thread if you do not like Ukraine. Can I ask if this is your home country?