Kyiv

[Tomux 22]

For appartment and "Service", or not?

Or are you only referring to food prices etc. ?

Offering grivnas to girls without adjusting its rate to dollar worked perfectly fine for me.

Main point, prices have not raised since grivna whent downhill. At least freelancers marked have not adjusted to it good enough yet. Who knows how long time it will last.
But sure there is enough girls trying too keep prices in dollars. But also enough too choose from who dont.

[Reiner Otto]

low grivna rate

For appartment and "Service", or not?

Or are you only referring to food prices etc. ?

[Tomux 22]

don't waste your time and money at RIO.

If you want BBJ ask her before you pay her, most girls there don't do BBJ and make sure she understand its for 3 hours

Yes Rio is a waste of time. And very few girls there have good communication skills. Day after, when I get sober I can't answer my self why would I ever go there. I do enjoy taking some drinks and whach girls dancing. But it must be better strip clubs in town if one wants to just sit drink and enjoy girls dancing for some hours.

[Tomux 22]

Have you been in clubs, were they busy, and is the lack of sex-hungry foreigners obvious?

Was no dought for me there is lack of sex tourists atm in Kiev. Only visited Decadence House for 30 min with my date before we whent home. So can't tell you much about club sceen.

Was by far one of the best trips I had to Kiev. Lots of girls to choose from, low grivna rate and not too much tourists too see.

[Muddy7]

Payed Rio a visit too and was not impressed. Did not see one girl above 7. And sure not the one I could consider paying 3000 grivna for 3 hours too. But who knows, I might be very spoiled.

don't waste your time and money at RIO.

if you want BBJ ask her before you pay her, most girls there don't do BBJ and make sure she understand its for 3 hours

[Prosal]

Just returned from Kiev

Have you been in clubs, were they busy, and is the lack of sex-hungry foreigners obvious?

[LilJoey]

You seem to be having a conversation with yourself.

Average salaries are higher in Kiev than elsewhere in the Ukraine, and I dutifully quoted my source.

Same as for London vs rest of England, Moscow vs rest of Russia, etc, etc.

I'm not sure what's up with these 1000 word essays of yours, but I have neither the time nor inclination to straighten out your hoary logic and statistics.

But don't let that stop you, carry on and follow your bliss.

Regards.

Fj

It seems no amount of explanation and good sense can penetrate your cloud. And guys like CB who second you on a point that was never in debate, have missed the point.

It is not in question that the average of all salaries and wages in Kiev city is higher than the rest of Ukraine's cities and oblasts / districts. I have never written otherwise. If you wish to pretend that I am disputing that fact, and posture yourself as if you are correct on this point versus what I have written, you may mislead fellows like CB and others, who haven't read carefully. But it does little to further the advice needed to be given about how much money is reasonable to offer a studenka for a sponsorship support arrangement. So you continue to becloud this issue with your mistaken input.

What I have tried to explain previously is a simple point, which you or anyone else should be able to understand. Given that the average monthly wages are reported in reputable sources to be significantly higher in Kiev, than in all other oblasts / districts and cities in Ukraine, a factual finding nobody here is disputing, the real question is why is that so? And depending on the reasons behind the higher "average" monthly income being higher in Kiev than all other places in Ukraine, how does it affect what is an appropriate level of support to offer a studentka? Obviously to me, the amount appropriate to offer a studentka needs to be based on expectations she might have, that are realistic to the sector of the economy that university students exist in, and typical monthly wages in that specific sector.

In answer to the question of why Kiev city's average monthly wages are higher than all other locations in Ukraine, I suggested that the reason is because included in Kiev city's average, were the wages of very highly paid types of people found in government office, big businesses and companies, high tech jobs, etc, which are found uniquely in Kiev, raising the overall average for the city. The important point here is not to lose sight of the fact that for many types of jobs the actual monthly incomes are much lower, and are consistent with the lower average monthly wages found in the rest of Ukraine. The types of work available generally to university students are in this much lower paid sector of the economy, as typically students are not employed in high paying jobs in government office, in management positions in large companies or in high tech jobs.

What exists in Kiev is an "upper class" with lots of money, and a large lower class with very small salaries, and a not very robust middle class. The divide between the "have's" and the "have not's" in Kiev city is a big problem in the economy, but it is a fact that it exists.

Of course, if you insist on obscuring these "facts on the ground" and continuing to claim that the "average" of the high incomes of some jobs and positions, together with the low wages of many types of jobs, produces an average income number that is useful for knowing what studentkas typically can earn, you will simply compound your error. It makes as much sense as taking the average lifespan of a small group comprised of a man who lived to age 100, and a child who lived only to age 2, and saying the average lifespan of the group was 51 years, a fact relevant to the actual experience of no member of the group.

A more relevant type of statistic would be what is the average monthly wages in the specific sector of the economy or job market in which unskilled labor and university students find employment. Because of the disparity in levels of income between the upper and lower class of jobs, it is necessary to be more specific, and to focus the inquiry on the specific sector of the job market where studentkas operate, in order to get a clearer picture of their economic opportunities. An "average" of all of Kiev's wages produces a number that is not relevant to studentkas.

I don't know how I can make this point more clear to you, or the others who have agreed with you, since you seem more focussed on "winning" a debate, rather than having a useful discussion.

So let's agree to disagree. And you and CB and Poker Player can offer studentkas your recommendation of $600 to $1000 / month support sponsorship, based on your average Kiev income in Wikipedia.

As for me, when the opportunity for sponsorship arises, I will do as I recommended, and I will first ask the girl what her rent is, and what the rest of her expenses are, as well as what her income has been, and I will offer an amount for sponsorship that makes sense based upon her actual needs and typical job expectations, and will try to remain in the support zone below $500 USD per month. I will not try to negotiate sponsorship with a prostitute girl, who is calculating in her head how to multiply her hourly p4p rate by the number of hours of fucking to be expected in a month, so she can charge me a bulk p4p rate for the month, as that is sure to be far more expensive. I will only consider sponsorship with normal student girls who do not work as prostitutes and are not heavily into p4p. And that's the advice I would give others on this forum to follow.

[Tomux 22]

Foreigners need to pass cash threshold to enter Ukraine.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...ne-341462.html

This means probably now every time you visit the idiot at the airport ask you how much cash you have, and wants to count it, and then ask you why you bring this much cash, how long do you plan to stay, wants to see your return ticket, what do you want to do here, why did you travel to ukraine. When was the last time you traveled to ukraine, how many time have you been here, do you have family here blah blah blah.

Just returned from Kiev, upon my arrival no questions asked. Just an empty look. Mamba was great for me this trip. First day I had a date with 19 yo model. Even the night out with her costed me 3500 grivna it was well worth it after in the bedroom. Tho I took huge risk here, since after our champgne and suchi she could easy just simply desapere. So this, could have easy turned into desaster.

Second day met another girl from mamba. Agreement was 2000 grivna + dinner for the evening and whole night. She was not a model in looks I would say 7, but had a great personality. We dropped dinner, whent straight into my appartment. This was a great night, morning and day full of drinking and fucking. She stayed untill 5 pm next day and would have stayed longer if not me telling her she should maybe go home since I have a dinner plan with my buddy.

Payed Rio a visit too and was not impressed. Did not see one girl above 7. And sure not the one I could consider paying 3000 grivna for 3 hours too. But who knows, I might be very spoiled.

[BrasilSoccer0]

CB,

You hit it on the nail. The most updated and accurate source is the people of the country.

BTW, Wikipedia has been accurate on minimum wages list. And they are very close on average salaries list.

A good source of cost of oiving is www.numbeo.com They give you the cost of every day living like loaf of bread, local beer, Levis jeans, milk, meals. Etc. And for some countries, it lists individual cities' cost of living.

The question should probably be which cities / towns have lower / est salaries.

Fj, you are absolutely correct. Average salaries are definitely, without question, higher in Kyiv than other Ukrainian cities. My source? Ukrainian people. I live in Kyiv have spoken with dozens of Ukrainians about this subject. Kyiv provides more job opportunities and higher salaries. Straight from the horses mouth. How is this even a debate?

[Raffzahn]

Same as for London vs rest of England, Moscow vs rest of Russia, etc, etc.

Gee, such a spread can be observed everywhere. Even all over developed places like Germany feature significant differences in large cities between business centers and less fortunate places. For example earnings in Munich are up to twice as high as in Leipzig or Dortmund. Same goes for expenses. So a spread between 400 and 700 USD between Ukrainian cities is even less than one would expect.

[Member #4274]

You seem to be having a conversation with yourself.

Average salaries are higher in Kiev than elsewhere in the Ukraine, and I dutifully quoted my source.

Same as for London vs rest of England, Moscow vs rest of Russia, etc, etc.

I'm not sure what's up with these 1000 word essays of yours, but I have neither the time nor inclination to straighten out your hoary logic and statistics.

But don't let that stop you, carry on and follow your bliss.

Regards.

Fj

Fj, you are absolutely correct. Average salaries are definitely, without question, higher in Kyiv than other Ukrainian cities. My source? Ukrainian people. I live in Kyiv have spoken with dozens of Ukrainians about this subject. Kyiv provides more job opportunities and higher salaries. Straight from the horses mouth. How is this even a debate?

[Fijiman]

Dear Fijiman,

Please understand that I write my comments with a view to making them useful and understandable to all readers of this thread, who might not have the expertise you claim to have in the field of actuarial science. So the mere presentation of explanations of how the higher incomes of oligarch and government officials could throw off the significance of data pertaining to Kiev city in calculating the average monthly wage, should not be taken personally.

Looking at the Wikipedia resource you provided a link to, I noted that Kiev city is the only location that has a monthly average wages reported as $625, whereas all other districts and oblasts in Ukraine have average monthly wages reported as being in the $300 to $400 range, including Kiev oblast itself. The issue that needs explanation is. Why does the average monthly wage in Kiev city deviate so significantly from all other locations and oblast districts in the entire rest of Ukraine? I suggested that maybe the reason is because the very high incomes of some government officials or of business oligarchs were included in the average for the monthly wage in Kiev city, which had the effect of raising the amount of the average there.

However, you now suggest that the explanation for why Kiev city average monthly wage is so much higher than all other places and oblast districts in Ukraine is that Kiev is a major city, and in major cities the costs of living are higher, and therefore the salaries are higher.

This last explanation you suggest is problematic in my view, because it fails to explain the data in the Wikipedia resource you provided the link for, indicating that all other major cities in Ukraine do not share this characteristic with Kiev city. Instead, all other major cities in Ukraine appear to also mostly have average monthly wages in the $300 to $400 range, like the rest of the country and its rural areas, and only Kiev city departs from this pattern and has a much higher average monthly wage than all other major cities and rural locations in Ukraine. Therefore, it seems a different force or cause for Kiev city's higher average monthly wage must be at play.

You seem to be having a conversation with yourself.

Average salaries are higher in Kiev than elsewhere in the Ukraine, and I dutifully quoted my source.

Same as for London vs rest of England, Moscow vs rest of Russia, etc, etc.

I'm not sure what's up with these 1000 word essays of yours, but I have neither the time nor inclination to straighten out your hoary logic and statistics.

But don't let that stop you, carry on and follow your bliss.

Regards.

Fj

[CastOnThis]

Foreigners need to pass cash threshold to enter Ukraine.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...ne-341462.html

This means probably now every time you visit the idiot at the airport ask you how much cash you have, and wants to count it, and then ask you why you bring this much cash, how long do you plan to stay, wants to see your return ticket, what do you want to do here, why did you travel to ukraine. When was the last time you traveled to ukraine, how many time have you been here, do you have family here blah blah blah.

Well, there goes my idea of visiting Ukraine again.

[Muddy7]

Foreigners need to pass cash threshold to enter Ukraine.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...ne-341462.html

This means probably now every time you visit the idiot at the airport ask you how much cash you have, and wants to count it, and then ask you why you bring this much cash, how long do you plan to stay, wants to see your return ticket, what do you want to do here, why did you travel to ukraine. When was the last time you traveled to ukraine, how many time have you been here, do you have family here blah blah blah.

[LilJoey]

I'm an actuary with 20 years experience. Thank you for explaining to me the concept of "average". .

The cost of living is higher in major cities, such as Kiev, and accordingly salaries are higher than in rural areas and towns.

Ps. I did not state that I was "concluding from it that people in most jobs are earning $625 per month". That would be the "mode", which typically differs from the average, unless it is a normal distribution.

Dear Fijiman,

Please understand that I write my comments with a view to making them useful and understandable to all readers of this thread, who might not have the expertise you claim to have in the field of actuarial science. So the mere presentation of explanations of how the higher incomes of oligarch and government officials could throw off the significance of data pertaining to Kiev city in calculating the average monthly wage, should not be taken personally.

Looking at the Wikipedia resource you provided a link to, I noted that Kiev city is the only location that has a monthly average wages reported as $625, whereas all other districts and oblasts in Ukraine have average monthly wages reported as being in the $300 to $400 range, including Kiev oblast itself. The issue that needs explanation is. Why does the average monthly wage in Kiev city deviate so significantly from all other locations and oblast districts in the entire rest of Ukraine? I suggested that maybe the reason is because the very high incomes of some government officials or of business oligarchs were included in the average for the monthly wage in Kiev city, which had the effect of raising the amount of the average there.

However, you now suggest that the explanation for why Kiev city average monthly wage is so much higher than all other places and oblast districts in Ukraine is that Kiev is a major city, and in major cities the costs of living are higher, and therefore the salaries are higher.

This last explanation you suggest is problematic in my view, because it fails to explain the data in the Wikipedia resource you provided the link for, indicating that all other major cities in Ukraine do not share this characteristic with Kiev city. Instead, all other major cities in Ukraine appear to also mostly have average monthly wages in the $300 to $400 range, like the rest of the country and its rural areas, and only Kiev city departs from this pattern and has a much higher average monthly wage than all other major cities and rural locations in Ukraine. Therefore, it seems a different force or cause for Kiev city's higher average monthly wage must be at play.