Kyiv

[Riina]

To me I come to Kiev because I can date girls without a problem. I am early-40's and have no problem having real relationships with girls 18-23 where there is no money involved at all.

Most of the grown up members here accept that our relationships with girls half our age our financial based.

[DramaFree11]

We just have different point of views. I think mine are more realistic though. To me I come to Kiev because I can date girls without a problem. I am early-40's and have no problem having real relationships with girls 18-23 where there is no money involved at all. Of course it is harder than when I was 33 in Ukraine. So, of course I like to pay sometimes too, but I know I am just paying for sex. I do not expect anything in return. Even if she acts like she is super into me and I give her my Viber, I know she will never write me first. You would thinking a working girl would know how to flirt a bit, but it is a rare thing because so many guys are writing them or talking to them. That is why day game is king. You meet girls that are not online and being written to by 100 guys per day.

Also people come here thinking their $200 will get them a 10 and that is not the case. Cute (but not hot) Mamba girls are making 3000-5000 USD per month. Do not be a fool and think they are poor students. I have seen one semi-pros Tinder accounts and she had over 6000 people that had swiped her right (Tinder Gold). She could literally swipe 6000 profiles and each guy would want to fuck her. On Mamba, they get 100-200 emails a day. How many would pay $100 for two hours? I am guessing a large percentage of foreigners would. Technology has changed everything. 20 years ago a girl had no way to find a paying guy except with a pimp, working the streets or in a maybe in a club. It is easy to be an online independent workers now and I laugh because you older guys do not get it. You are often acting like Al Bundy (middle aged TV show father who always talked about his high school football days) and thinking of the past too much are missing. Nobody cares what happened in 2010. I am sure there were guys in Kyiv 1975 saying "You know it was much easier to fuck a hot young girl after the war in 1946 than these days. This city sucks because you cannot fuck a girl for a bag of potatoes anymore".

Ukraine has the hottest and most accessible girls to me. Enjoy it while you can before you get too old or they join the EU in 2032.

Sorry, completely disagree. Yes, girls in Kiev are easily approachable, but that is about it. Just because they talk to you does not make them hot. Ukraine, girls are mediocre at best. Not even in the top 15 now. All over Europe, Latin America, Russia girls are way better looking, then Ukraine girls, not even close. I guess if you have real low standards they are hot.

[TinyHippo]

If I remember correctly, TinyHippo, you stayed in Kiev for six months over last Winter. Riina is a visiting veteran for many years. The two of you may have different circumstances, and therefore different outlook and impression of Kiev.

As has been pointed out earlier, success in our common hobby often depend on the following factors:

- Funds.

- Length of stay.

- Confidence, Behavior, Attitude.

- Language.

- Age and Appearance...

We just have different point of views. I think mine are more realistic though. To me I come to Kiev because I can date girls without a problem. I am early-40's and have no problem having real relationships with girls 18-23 where there is no money involved at all. Of course it is harder than when I was 33 in Ukraine. So, of course I like to pay sometimes too, but I know I am just paying for sex. I do not expect anything in return. Even if she acts like she is super into me and I give her my Viber, I know she will never write me first. You would thinking a working girl would know how to flirt a bit, but it is a rare thing because so many guys are writing them or talking to them. That is why day game is king. You meet girls that are not online and being written to by 100 guys per day.

Also people come here thinking their $200 will get them a 10 and that is not the case. Cute (but not hot) Mamba girls are making 3000-5000 USD per month. Do not be a fool and think they are poor students. I have seen one semi-pros Tinder accounts and she had over 6000 people that had swiped her right (Tinder Gold). She could literally swipe 6000 profiles and each guy would want to fuck her. On Mamba, they get 100-200 emails a day. How many would pay $100 for two hours? I am guessing a large percentage of foreigners would. Technology has changed everything. 20 years ago a girl had no way to find a paying guy except with a pimp, working the streets or in a maybe in a club. It is easy to be an online independent workers now and I laugh because you older guys do not get it. You are often acting like Al Bundy (middle aged TV show father who always talked about his high school football days) and thinking of the past too much are missing. Nobody cares what happened in 2010. I am sure there were guys in Kyiv 1975 saying "You know it was much easier to fuck a hot young girl after the war in 1946 than these days. This city sucks because you cannot fuck a girl for a bag of potatoes anymore".

Ukraine has the hottest and most accessible girls to me. Enjoy it while you can before you get too old or they join the EU in 2032.

[Riina]

As Riina said, girl has to believe that her life can be changed for the better by being with you. Then she may decide to be nice. Open market philosophy.

I was reading political commentary during the election and nobody could explain why a clown was so far ahead in the poles. They would just point to the usual suspects of populism and corruption. Someone finally made a clear statement today that despite the president's achievements, it did nothing to improve the lives of Ukrainians. Basically the same mentality of girls looking for relationships. I think that writer heisted my comment. LOL.

Great post Photoslider. I didn't want to repost the whole report again.

[PhotoSlider]

Thanks. I was having a bad day, but that is the most comical thing I have read all day.

If I remember correctly, TinyHippo, you stayed in Kiev for six months over last Winter. Riina is a visiting veteran for many years. The two of you may have different circumstances, and therefore different outlook and impression of Kiev.

As has been pointed out earlier, success in our common hobby often depend on the following factors:

- Funds.

- Length of stay.

- Confidence, Behavior, Attitude.

- Language.

- Age and Appearance.

Ultimately it is the ability to prove to the girl of interest that you are reliable. As a source of income first of all. As Riina said, girl has to believe that her life can be changed for the better by being with you. Then she may decide to be nice. Open market philosophy.

As far as that ability, working remotely from Kiev, and staying much longer without the need to use up precious Western corporate vacation days, helped to strengthen my circle of reliable girls in the last 3-5 years significantly.

I am not 30 something. My funds are limited within the reason, but they are adequate. Yet for the last 3-5 years I am getting happier with every new visit, as building and improving that harem of go-to girls reduced volatility typically experienced by short term visitors.

The last somewhat disappointing visit for me was 2011, after River Palace was towed away. I stayed at the hotel for 2 days and had a total of 3 girls. One was retail cashier register girl, and simply mediocre. One was tall, full-bodied but not overweight. She didn't want to kiss at first, but then warmed up, and passionately asked to extend for another hour when I was about to suggest it myself. We almost extended one more time. And the third girl was non-stop cheer-leader that alternated me and my friend in the bedroom next to the sauna. She was electrifying, with every next round being better than the previous!

Why do I say that that 2011 visit was disappointing? Because in 2 days I only had 3 girls: one great, one very much fuckable, and one going through the motions. I stayed at the hotel, instead of my own apartment. Visit was short. I didn't have reliable base of contacts, and therefore was vulnerable at the hands of the agency I called. Viber-like messengers didn't exist. Same for exclusive closed agencies catering young students to well seasoned travelers, as they do nowadays. Those didn't exist in 2011. I also visited Star Rhinoceros strip club, and as exciting as it was, touching girls everywhere and sucking on their nipples, in the hindsight, I would say that money could have been spent much better elsewhere.

The fact that some of us on the Forum did not have much luck in the last few years in Kiev could be for the reasons explained above, as well as purely because of personality problems of the mongers themselves.

- Having doubts in Kiev.

- Communication issues while ordering and consuming.

- Unrealistic expectations.

Girls in any country can sense when they are mistrusted or disrespected, when the customer is nervous or not confident.

It takes few longer visits to crack and understand how the system works.

Thinking that Kiev owes you something, that newbie can ask on the Forum, fly in, and be served high quality entertainment easily, is an illusion, leading to the usual complaints about cheaters and scammers. Surely those are present, but the same girl that extorted money through deception from one gentlemen while leaving him disheartened, in the right hands may turn into the pinnacle of the visit.

Our perception of Kiev changes over years. Same with Ukrainian girls behavior and objectives on the other side of the barricades.

And one more thing, Forum members exchange reliable contacts via PM behind the scenes. Posting girls numbers or URLs for everybody to see is rare these days for obvious reasons. Giving out valuable info even via PM to a person that never posted a report, and has nothing to offer, is unlikely to happen. Information exchange is a two way street, and unfortunately some of the new visitors have to go through the proverbial bumps and bruises of their own before gaining sufficient experience. Sharp ones learn, eventually enjoy, and go for many returns.

To be continued.

[TinyHippo]

I think I truly understand why semi pros are so hard to find now in Kiev. The city has become a magnet for thirty something Western guys. I keep seeing countless profiles of these supposed tech founders on FB. Essentially frauds looking for girlfriends under a guise of tech work. If these dudes meet the quality semi pros that I had met pre crisis, they would surely shove cash in their pockets to lock them up. Hard for a grown up man to compete against these young bastards.

Thanks. I was having a bad day, but that is the most comical thing I have read all day.

[DramaFree11]

I think I truly understand why semi pros are so hard to find now in Kiev. The city has become a magnet for thirty something Western guys. I keep seeing countless profiles of these supposed tech founders on FB. Essentially frauds looking for girlfriends under a guise of tech work. If these dudes meet the quality semi pros that I had met pre crisis, they would surely shove cash in their pockets to lock them up. Hard for a grown up man to compete against these young bastards.

Correct, this is what I have been saying for the last 2 years.

Reason for this:

1. Computer.

2. Western moving to a Kiev, but that would get old real fast. The city is nice, but the rest is marginal.

3. Girls moving, to other country for better opportunities.

[Riina]

I think I truly understand why semi pros are so hard to find now in Kiev. The city has become a magnet for thirty something Western guys. I keep seeing countless profiles of these supposed tech founders on FB. Essentially frauds looking for girlfriends under a guise of tech work. If these dudes meet the quality semi pros that I had met pre crisis, they would surely shove cash in their pockets to lock them up. Hard for a grown up man to compete against these young bastards.

[ChronoTrigger]

Is BBFS for 1500 UAH reasonable in Kiev? That's what I pay in Pattaya.

the PT141

How does someone get that?

[PhotoSlider]

I've been noticing a rise in thirty something trust fund babies moving to Kiev. Good Western women are too smart to hook up with them. So white and poor pussies with good manners have become option one. These are the guys that mess up this thread. They're not really into prostitutes and just want to live in their illusion about Kiev.

There was a similar phenomenon in former Soviet Union, called "Golden Youth". Children of wealthy parents, next generation that has no purpose in life.

To a certain degree thread is messed up even without the trust fund babies. My hope is that there will be more meaningful informative reports between now and September / October.

[Riina]

I've been noticing a rise in thirty something trust fund babies moving to Kiev. Good Western women are too smart to hook up with them. So white and poor pussies with good manners have become option one. These are the guys that mess up this thread. They're not really into prostitutes and just want to live in their illusion about Kiev.

[Stevie69]

I absolutely agree. It is the best part of vacationing in Kiev. Yes, reasonably priced sex with gorgeous women is great, but you can only have sex so many times in a day. The part I love the most is stepping out of my apartment int o the street, and immediately seeing half a dozen gorgeous women in short skirt, high heels, and elegant dresses. Contrast that with North America, where women are fat and the dress like slobs.

Yes. It will be a magnificent sight. A real feast for the eyes. The streets of Kiev will turn into a magnificent garden.

[Tomek123]

Awesome, I am going to Berlin for some work next month, maybe I'll take a detour to Kiev after.

Yes. It will be a magnificent sight. A real feast for the eyes. The streets of Kiev will turn into a magnificent garden.

[Gargano19]

Two more weeks, maybe even less, and young girls in revealing outfits will be everywhere in Kiev!

Awesome, I am going to Berlin for some work next month, maybe I'll take a detour to Kiev after.

[PhotoSlider]

Can you describe your feelings and impressions of Western women in a little more detail and compare these women with Ukrainian ones? My experience of communication and sex with Western women (Western Europe and the USA) is very small. My friend lived for a while in the United States and said.

That white American women did not impress him. They talk a lot. They constantly boast of their career successes. Education. Success in karate and aikido. And bla-bla-bla. It's just that our friend did not quite understand my term,submissive, I did not mean intimidation and mental slavery. I meant less arrogant behaviors. I meant less arrogant models of behavior of Ukrainian ladies. I did not mean that they are submissive. Of course this is not quite so. I meant that they are more submissive than western ladies from feminized countries. Rich countries.

Tomek,

I believe we are much closer in our appreciation of Ukrainian girls and rejection of American women than it seems on the surface.

To reiterate, there is a huge difference between a young woman being feminist and feminine. My impression we all very much prefer the latter over former.

Pure submissive is also possible in Ukraine, and enjoyable to a degree. I get tired of it quickly and switch to a different girl.

Characterizing Western women, as you propose, is not really a subject matter for this Forum. Why should we? There are good women in US, just like in any large country, but they are practically impossible to find and meet. Hopefully we will not digress.

What we need here is more field reports instead of building theories like I do. Two more weeks, maybe even less, and young girls in revealing outfits will be everywhere in Kiev!