Kyiv

[Egy Monger New]

Is BBFS in Kyiv as easily available as, say, Morocco Indonesia and Colombia?

[Lucky Nuts]

Thinking of arriving Kiev next month from USA. Sounds like only requirement is a negative PCR test correct? Thoughts on getting it from a lab in the US vs. Upon arrival in Kiev? Anything else I should be concerned with or aware of? TIA.

[PhotoSlider]

https://reachinitiative.maps.arcgis....bb47ef94f20edb

What I don't understand is why Kiev is Yellow and not even Orange when it's the most infected city in the country.

Do they use something like numbers of infection in the last 14 days per 100,000? Does it mean it is still relatively uninfected, thus Yellow?

Or do they designate Kiev with Yellow to encourage the economic activity? Or even businesses bribe the government to receive Yellow?

I'm certainly not an expert on this.

Sorry, I cannot find the reference. The criteria Ukrainian Government uses is based on 3 factors observed over a sliding one-week window:

1. Number of infected per 100,000.

2. Percentage of used hospital beds.

3. Number of tests per 100,000.

I do not know how trustworthy Ukrainian data is. Too many things may skew its quality: unreliable tests, availability of tests, willingness of people to get tested, etc.

One of my regulars recovered from COVID in March-April, and didn't go for testing. She didn't want to get locked up.

And certainly statistical data can be tweaked and manipulated.

[PhotoSlider]

Bottom line for me is that Germany is easy, Kyiv is more fun.

Great honest analysis by an unbiased person with no agenda, who enjoyed FKKs in Germany and doesn't imagine how the Kiev is today, but is actually on the ground in Kiev, making his opinion relevant.

If your mindset is Western: login to the website, search by certain parameters, preview, assess, engage, consume, pay for business transaction, rinse and repeat, - then go to Germany. Ukraine has nothing close to German well-oiled business machine efficiency and professionalism.

I am almost 60. While in Kiev, I can have 19-22 years old staying with me for free for days and weeks, providing GFE, while we enjoy the City together. I can have multiple ladies competing for my time, attention and resources. Yes, ultimately I pay, either directly on a per visit basis, or for concurrent expenses.

For the last two months I am trying to remotely quit on 21 years old girl, who stayed with me on my last 4 visits to Kiev. Pure GFE, great sex and lots of genuine joy. She fierce-fully refuses my attempts to politely say "Goodbye", despite our last contact being almost a year ago. She was one of my 4 regulars, and there were many short term beauties.

Is it possible in Germany? I strongly doubt. Different society structure.

Can anybody reach that level in Kiev? It is lots of work. Took me multiple years. YummyPL is in Paradise on the Earth right now, because he is in Kiev long term, and his expectations are set properly. And fuck those naysayers claiming Ukrainian girls are either ugly or expensive. YummyPL shares with me extensively, and I am drooling.

[Sorbonne]

https://reachinitiative.maps.arcgis....bb47ef94f20edb

What I don't understand is why Kiev is Yellow and not even Orange when it's the most infected city in the country.

Do they use something like numbers of infection in the last 14 days per 100,000? Does it mean it is still relatively uninfected, thus Yellow?

Or do they designate Kiev with Yellow to encourage the economic activity? Or even businesses bribe the government to receive Yellow?

I'm certainly not an expert on this.

[YummyPL]

Is a fair opinion to say that Germany is the best place for European woman? In terms of looks, price, and accessibility to foreigners?

Germany is absolutely the best for accessibility to foreigners. Super easy, legal, and a huge variety of European women. Something for all tastes as far as appearance. It is generally more expensive and the girls you meet will be "pros. " I used to spend a lot of time in FKKs and I loved getting girls that were brand new and had never did P4 P before, but those girls are a rare find. While some of the "pros" perform well, they do seem like pros. Nice for a good sex marathon and variety. But because I like longer sessions with a girl, the prices can be steep. 3-4 hours will cost you 300-400 euros at a minimum plus an entrance fee.

Comparatively, Ukraine can be inexpensive (it is amazing what the devaluation of the hryvnia has done) although it can also be expensive if you are not well prepared. Despite comments from some board members, there are plenty of very hot women in Kyiv available for P4P. I'm newly back after a long period away and am very happy with the results I have gotten so far and I have just started to scratch the surface in two weeks. I think the P4P girls compare very favorably with those in Germany depending on your taste and for me the best part is that it is much easier to find non-pros that are fresh and seem to actually enjoy the time spent together. Also, if you are well prepared, you can find better looking women than are found in most FKKs. Maybe it is just my taste, but I strongly believe that.

Bottom line for me is that Germany is easy, Kyiv is more fun.

[YummyPL]

I had my first "freebie" yesterday. I met her struggling to take one of those rolling baskets of groceries and two big 5 liter bottles of water down the stairs into the tunnel near Olimpiiska metro station. I offered to help and carried the two big bottles of water for her into the tunnel and out the other side. We talked a bit and I invited her to dinner. She hesitated but agreed. I carried the water for her back to her apartment building, stayed down in the "foyer" as she put the stuff in the elevator and took it upstairs. 5 minutes later she came down and we walked to Kuvshyn, a nice Georgian / Caucasian restaurant not far away. We sat on the terrace and I got the Saturday plov special and tea and she ordered a salad and juice. She shared some of my meal (it is big) which I always like. After eating we hung out in the park there and talked. After a while we made it to a small pub and had a couple of beers. After a couple of hours, we went for a walk and were nearing her apartment. I gave her a short kiss and asked if we should goodbye for the evening. She said OK and I went for another kiss that she responded to rather deeply. We made out a little on the street. I asked her back to my place and she offered to go up to her place instead.

Long story short, we had some pretty good sex. I didn't have any condoms with me and they were never mentioned. She seemed to have a good time and I also enjoyed it. She is not really my type. I would guess around 30 years old. She has a pretty enough face but is a bit stocky (but firm). I'd rate her in the 5-6 range because bodies are more important to me than face. Total damage for the time with her was about 1500 hrivnia (less than $60 USD) spent on both of us so less than half of that on her. No mention of any other money. She was fun and I might see her again as a "freebie. ".

So far in Kyiv for 16 days. I saw SA#1 once, I saw SA#2 twice, I have seen the Mamba 18 yo seven times all on work days, and I was with this girl yesterday. I have dropped three SA girls for being too flaky without ever meeting them, and I have met another SA girl for lunch and we are meeting tomorrow during the day for our first "intimate" meeting. No work tomorrow because of the holiday. Life is not too bad.

[YummyPL]

but no laws against timewasters.

Very true. But the girls are just as guilty of wasting time. Too bad there is no way to effectively match up non-time wasting men with non-time wasting women.

[LivingFossil]

I've been reading the Kiev forums for a while, I've had a few trips to Germany and Poland and while I was there mongered. I had always thought that Ukraine and Russia would have cheaper and hotter girls, which could be true but from reading the forums here it seems that it is not easy for foreigners.

Is a fair opinion to say that Germany is the best place for European woman? In terms of looks, price, and accessibility to foreigners?

[Kozerog]

Another issue for independents is real police. Back before anti-corruption drive, police would target independents and demand payoffs. Now, job of lower ranking police might be to run independents out of business so they don't compete with agencies, who continue to pay off higher ranking police.

Perhaps the biggest menace to prostitutes (at least in the Anglo-Saxon world) has always been "time wasters". These are guys who have no intention of actually going through with sex. Either they jerk off while discussing planned sex acts on the phone with the girl, or they jerk off after the girl arrives and they see her in the street, or teenagers might send the girl on an outcall to the home of a married school teacher or priest or whatever. Or they make appointments then cancel at the last minute. Not uncommon for a 10:1 or higher ratio between timewasters versus legitimate clients.

Police don't have time to chase semi-pros and true criminals are rare and eventually get caught and sent to jail (or beaten up by a girl with a big boyfriend), but no laws against timewasters. Just consider the hordes of guys with no money and no girlfriend who write fan notes on Instagram profiles of pretty girls. Every one of those guys a potential timewaster of working girls time.

[PhotoSlider]

She said to me that she'd want somebody to do it for her and just inform her when and where to go, and she'd do the gig (she even said she'd give 10% of her income for this help).

And this is precisely what these agencies do. Except it is not 10%. Rather anywhere from 60% and up. 75% is not unheard of. Add to this all the penalties and extra expenses.

I haven't heard of girls cut up in pieces, but other unpleasant things happen in Kiev. Customer arrives, consumes the services, and leaves without paying. More aggressive customers pretend they are police (or are police), and clean up all the earnings that the girl managed to get and keep at her residence.

[YummyPL]

If you know a good agency, one that will provide you solidly with pretty girls aged 18-24, students or the like, 'regular' girls and not those silicone / glamour girls, please let me know. I understood that even the agent might not provide you with real photos, but if they will send a girl with similar look (cuteness / beauty) and body-type, I guess that's enough.

I'm still working through the non-agency contacts I had when I got here (with widely mixed success). Anything agency info I have would be from long ago. Probably next week I will try some "agency" girls from some of the local websites (kievlady, mister-x, etc.). I will report back.

[Desin]

Just my limited experience recently and in years past. Most Mamba girls like to sign up for 2-3 hours instead of an hour. Or maybe that is just me. I guess it is a way to increase income while reducing risk. Unless she is working for an agency, a solo girl has no "protection" from bad people so every meeting is more of a risk. A web / apartment girl has an infrastructure that protects her to a certain extent. She churns through hourly meetings. She pays at least 50% of her normal fee for that infrastructure, but it is better than being chopped up into little pieces or any of the other ways a guy can hurt a working girl.

I finally understood the meaning of this.

The amount of time that I use to find a non-agency girl from dating apps is huge. I enjoy it, but still, it chunks up a shitload of time. And so it does for the girls. I recalled this one local student, who made a good money on the side with this kind of activity, and her complaint was that it's so exhausting to screen through all the mails the she gets. She said to me that she'd want somebody to do it for her and just inform her when and where to go, and she'd do the gig (she even said she'd give 10% of her income for this help). So, until now I've thought about these 'agency girls' to be some kind of addicts and uneducated girls, maybe even in the hands of the mafia or something. But maybe it's not that. Maybe it's just that they want to have the cash, and don't want to spend their time with that talking and negotiating and all the fake customers who are not really interested to pay for a meeting. So, they give that half away for someone else to deal with all the bullshit.

I'll continue with my Tinder / Mamba / Badoo experiment, with your advises in mind (I also found some of the old Mamba-advises from the other thread), but since this revelation I ask this:

If you know a good agency, one that will provide you solidly with pretty girls aged 18-24, students or the like, 'regular' girls and not those silicone / glamour girls, please let me know. I understood that even the agent might not provide you with real photos, but if they will send a girl with similar look (cuteness / beauty) and body-type, I guess that's enough.

[Philosophus]

I appreciate comparative reporting, even if an insight on St Petersburg, Russia, ends up in the Kiev forum. Many of us read across various fora.

Reg. Mamba, it is only a matter of effort and attention to learn what works for you. You need not write anything in particular to specify your purpose, just check flirt and meeting and joint travel and sex etc. As your interests. You need a photo to get responses. Enter age 38, not much above, because many girls will enter 20 to 40 for desired age range of the partner. There are all shades of girls, and all need money in these dire times. She will bring up the topic. You don't have to. When she proposes to switch to viber or telegram or whatsapp, your mamba convesation has taken the right direction. I speak and write Russian fluently, which makes things easier. So many young confused girls with low self esteem out there looking for a little adventerous path out of their financial duress by marketing their youth, their petite slim bodies, their nicely braided hair, their femininity, their immaculate smiles and eyes to a sponsor in need of company and carnal relief.

[YummyPL]

What is the most direct, but still non-moderated way, to let people know in your profile text that you are searching for such company in Mamba and Tinder?

You can put almost anything in the tags on Mamba. One problem with that is that if you put stuff in your profile for working girls, it is much less likely that you will get any response from purely non-working girls. I don't have any information in my profile except my height and weight, and a few pictures that show my general body appearance without showing my face in detail. She can see I am not fat and that I am white (which may be good or bad depending on the girl-it seems to me that most of the younger girls are not particularly racist). I don't get a high percentage of responses, but I get more than I need.

I assume you understand any young girl that puts a "looking for a man" with a range much older than her age is a working girl. That doesn't mean she will see you. It just means she is open to that kind of meeting. And I will also say, after the initial investment of 2-3 hours, shorter meetings are more reasonable. I like longer meetings but I am also a challenge sexually. I may or may not have skills, but even at my advance years, I have stamina. Plus, I like a lot of foreplay. I would feel rushed with just one hour. Sometimes I wish I were not that way--it would be a lot cheaper if I was happy with an hour. We are all different people with different needs.

I treat almost every girl I meet as a "normal girl. " Some I just compensate directly instead of indirectly. Also, it is my belief that any girl you get to your apartment is willing to fuck you. It is up to you and her how that happens. Finally, a "normal" girl might ask for direct compensation buy asking for you to "help" her with a particular financial problem she is having.