Kyiv

[Street Sleuth]

Robert,

Try not to get too offended - Cruiser has a nasty habit of doing exactly what you said - jumping to gross conclusions based on tidbits of information offered. It is annoying.

As for his comments on 'preying on dysfunctional women', my recollect that the concept of 'dysfunctional women', as described, correlates to the vast majority of FSU girls - especially the ones you'll find in Kiev, Odessa, and Moscow. So, anyone living in the region, and dating local girls, is in effect 'preying on dysfunctional women', whether they are consciensciously aware of it or not.

[Hecker]

I think that cruiser is actually ukrainian or american-ukrainian. Connection is ukrainain for sure. He uses the same style ukrainain boys use to annoy you when you hit their girlfriend.

Maybe these people entered the forum because they found the comments on ukrainian girls, Ukraine etc rather humiliating and want to give a lesson to american arrogance. They showed already one monger, this guy in Globus. I had seen him one time in club 44 and was wondering what a beauty sitting next to him had to do with him. After I watched them for some time, I realised the guy was completely harmless, the girl left and he stayed.

Maybe the connection, cruiser etc will try to find out the identity of some people writing on this forum and make fun of them or show their photos actually as well to protect their country from them, make them leave or something like that. All the reports by connection are 100% written by ukrainian. I met this style many times, somebody who tries to appear completely unpleasant to make you get away.

[LifeSavour]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[Robert1110]

Cruiser,

I liked you until this most recent post.

Who said I "prey on dysfunctional women"?

All I did was make a comment to lifesavior about a comment he made. In no way does what I said have anything to do with me "preying on dysfunctional women".

Also, who said I "find yourself attracting bad (not in a good way bad) girls like this all the time then you have to take a look at yourself and ask why this is".

You do not know me, you do not know the women I date and what I post is a fraction of my experience here.

I do not have to look at myself. I know myself very well. I do not need to use money to make up for bad looks or no personality. I have both and I will wager I have more in both categories than U.

Who the hell do you think you are? Your comments are totally out of line.

I am reminded why I do not post very often, people like you take a kernal of information and turn it into something it is not.

[Saunter]

On the gift-giving issue - not only do I not give gifts of any value in the early stages (certainly no cell-phones or furs), I often ask girls to buy me a gift (as another means of weeding through girls).

70% get real bitchy, and reply I'm the man, and should spend money on them.

20% take it as the joke that it really is, and laugh it off.

10% actually buy me a gift!

I have yet to recieve a cell phone though....

You funny bastard. I'm actually going to try that next time myself.

[Street Sleuth]

As for the overpriced real-estate market in the FSU, I could explain all the dynamics that have created it, but it would really start to be way off topic, so I'll hold off...

I'll just mention to all those that shoot in and out of the countries for short trips - don't get too upset about it, the locals get hit by high rents too, whenever they move out of their original home towns (where they have essentially free places from Soviet times).

It helps, a little, to speak the language and be in-country for awhile, to find a better deal, but basically, real-estate is over-priced across the board, for everyone.

[Street Sleuth]

Cruiser,

I accept the argument about Soviet difficulties resulting in tough attitudes, when it comes to Babyshkas (who are by and far the toughest people in all the FSU...don't mess with them!), but the girls we are talking about (under 30), really never experienced the whole 'bread line' thing.

I think, now, the various problems in FSU are related to the new economic model, where the rich got rich not by working hard, but by some sort of connection/graft. Working hard still generally gets you nowhere.

No need to defend FSU women - there are plenty of pluses, which I will expound upon at times (and plenty of minuses, which I will also be sure to point out) - just want to keep things balanced - more often, I hear, "the FSU is a mecca for women, they are all hot, and all subservient to men" - just trying to keep it real .

[Cruiser D]

Having just got back from 7 weeks in Kiev my interest in this forum is at a typical yearly high. Hopefully for all of us, myself included, my interest will diminish along with my separation from Kiev, it usually does.

First the easy stuff.

Euro K, sorry about the American women and seemly now Ukrainian women suck debate but such is the nature of the beast. P4P in Kiev is everywhere, literally. River Palace is 99%, Arena - 112 - Decadence all hover around 50% depending on the night. These are the big name destinations and all you are going to get from me. But you asked for Kiev for Dummies and I gave it to you. Everything else you find will be a fun learning experience for you. Be sure to post all the relevant information on the board as you go. I am sure you want to help all the newbies that come after you. Looks and lack of charm are easily compensated in Kiev with money.

Robert, you are starting to creep me out with this preying on dysfunction girls stuff - has the Connection found a new home? As far as the western spoiled girls or bad mannered girls or whatever you want to call them goes in Kiev believe it or not it is actually a minority of these girls that make up the hot girl population. 80% of the hot girls living in Kiev generally do not interact with foreigners. Seriously, if you find yourself attracting bad (not in a good way bad) girls like this all the time then you have to take a look at yourself and ask why this is. Common courtesy is hard in a society that when you used to stand politely in a bread line you did not eat. It's changing but it is going to take at least a generation.

Street, you may have been paying below market for your apartment but you were still being overcharged. I have encountered the ‘know it all’ Kiev girl too, but the type is far from typical. Play it out and see where it goes, see if her attitude changes by the end of the date.

Robert and Street, we've all encountered these problems dealing with the Ukrainian and Ukrainian girls. It's just a minor bump in the road, get over it and drive on. If you can't, it's not the girls. I find most sexpats, myself included, happiness/unhappiness is directly related to what their current experience are with the girls. Having a great time? Who cares about the Soviet shit hole they are in. Having a bad time? Wow, this place really sucks.

Geez, defending Ukraine and Ukrainian girls used to be Uke Boy’s job. How did I get stuck with it?

[Street Sleuth]

Robert,

I had a girl go on about how I was being over-charged for my apartment, solely because I'm an American - her comments made in a bitchy, arrogant tone of voice - all the while, she had not even seen my flat, didn't know where it was located, and had no notion of size/quality.

Now, I will gripe all day long that real-estate is over-priced in all the major/semi-major EE cities, but that said, everyone who actually visited my apartment (locals and foreigners alike), all commented that I had a steel - I was paying below market, given the size/location/quality of the apartment.

I have a real-estate background, so I can quickly understand and assess a market.

Point being - the girl was really annoying. Her behavior is fairly typical.

It does amaze me that the local girls absolutely fail to learn/listen from foreigners. Not to be outrageously arrogant and egotistical, but most of us have life-experiences that the young local girls could learn from - but few show any interest at all. They are more interested in trying to prove that they are 'one of us'. Their proof - they have a slider cell-phone, can speak highly flawed English, and have eaten what they believe to be Mexican food.

Like I said, I could go on and on. With my feet up on every thing from chairs to tables, I am as annoying to them as they are to me, so I shouldn't ***** .

That said, there are rare special girls - I've had a few (yes, I'm a bastard for having left them), and still have one who I keep close....she is sweet, patient, good-mannered, and a great lay (what more could a guy ask for?).

[Robert1110]

Street, you are absolutely correct.

Before I saw this thread, as I was walking to the metro to meet yet another lady, I was thinking how there are a LOT of beautiful ladies who are not spoiled rotten in this country. They are just difficult to find and becoming even more so.

Yesterday a very good looking girl passed me going the other way. I still am kicking myself for not talking to her. She was a beauty, in normal jeans, normal clothes. I am sure if she dressed the part, she would be a 9 or a 10 on k street.

This girl actually looked down to earth.

I also know they exist (great girls) because I have one. Even her friends tell her she is different than everyone else. She does not have a spoiled bone in her body. Totally selfless, nothing but a big heart.

If only I loved to fuck her!

" I am sorry "? Never heard that phrase here before, in four years, except from my girl.

While I am on that topic, these women are never wrong. They love to interrupt and they rarely listen. I had one girl tell me, I paid more for my flat because I am an american. It did not matter how many times I told her I had a ukrainian friend find my flat and no one knew an american was going to rent until we met the flat owner.

These people, in many ways, have a lot more going for them than the average american, but in as many or more ways, they are way behind in things like common sense, "american" ingenuity and, well, basic common courtesy towards others.

Rule of law? Does not exist.

Hey life, we all knwo girls from fucked up familes are the easiest and best lays. Too bad they are usually psycho too!

[Euroknight]

Hi all,

I am quite new to this forum, but, looking forward to go to Kiev for work in the next months, I was trying to get some good information. But it seems that I am falling in the middle of a rather anthropo-philosohical debate....Can I make few trivial, bur rather concrete questions?

Browsing at the many reports, my provisional bottom line is that mongering in Kiev is unsecure, time- and money consuming. Now: does the external look matters too? I am in my 40s, not very tall and with little hairs left. Should I give up?

[LifeSavour]

To pre-emptivley respond to all those who will squeal at my saying Western girls have better personalities, in general...

Our real gripe, and impetoous towards EE, has less to do with Western women, than with all the competition for them.

Beyond that, I never said Western girls' personalities were perfect - far from it. But rarely would they talk down to a waiter, or show up an hour late to a date, and not even apologize (who here has never experienced that in EE? Anyone? If you say otherwise, you haven't been in-country long enough, or you are lieing).

I said before: dysfunctional, dysfunctional, dysfunctional. But I love it!

Because a girl that grows up in a dysfunctional family (especially no real father figure), well they tend to gravitate to an older man! Ta da!

Even in usa when I was a teacher, in a week of meeting new students at semester I could almost 100% of the time tell you which girl was from a 'broken' family!

Ls guy

[Street Sleuth]

To pre-emptivley respond to all those who will squeal at my saying Western girls have better personalities, in general...

Yes, I too am annoyed by all the political correctness in the West, the whole "women are just as good/strong/smart" as men, and "no means no", etc etc. But most of this is at the superficial, media level - on a personal level, Western girls aren't as affected by all this as we might imagine. Many are, no doubt, but many aren't. Our real gripe, and impetoous towards EE, has less to do with Western women, than with all the competition for them.

Beyond that, I never said Western girls' personalities were perfect - far from it. But rarely would they talk down to a waiter, or show up an hour late to a date, and not even apologize (who here has never experienced that in EE? Anyone? If you say otherwise, you haven't been in-country long enough, or you are lieing).

I could go on and on, but am trying to limit myself to issues somewhat pertinent to this board.

[Street Sleuth]

Robert,

The issue of "all men want is sex" and, more to the point, "women often have little more to offer than sex" invites some very big philosophical issues - its a problem that extends way beyond EE.

But, in an attempt to narrow it down to our experiences in EE, I will say, the benefit to EE is that a guy who can get a 6 girlfriend in the West, can get an 8 girlfriend in EE, and a 50 year old guy can score with a 25 year old girl.

However, there are downsides - in strict terms of personality, I really have to say that Western girls generally rule in this domain. The problem is, for most men (me definitely included), the physical aspect trumps the emotional - ie, I need a girl to be hot first, then I'll consider her personality.

Hot girls with good personalities exist in decent quantity in the West, but competition for them is out of control. Fuggly girls with good personalities are ubiquitious in the West - koodos to guys who can deal with dating a heffer (I unfortunately can't).

EE differs, in that there are more (available) hot girls (due to lack of competition) than the West, but hot girls with good personalities are really rare.

I think a lot of it has to do with the overall current mentality of the younger generations in EE - capitalism is relatively new. It is almost a status symbol to be able to act like an a*hole - if you are rich, and beautiful, you have the right to treat waiters like dirt.

Solution?: It takes time, so, again, isn't for the one-week in/out guys, but you have to search among the poorer girls - they generally are sweeter, deeper pyschologically, and have better manners than the richer ones. And they are often just as educated (one can have a Master's degree in EE and still be dirt poor).

All this is contrary to the West, where poor girls are usually uneducated and obnoxious. It takes some rethinking on our parts to retarget where to find women (ie - not in night clubs, for example).

[Robert1110]

Hello all,

With regards to manners in Ukraine, if it feels wrong it is wrong.

On a date, a girl should respect your company and your wallet. I walked away from a date because she told me that a 15 hrivna taxi fare for 30 hrivna was normal. If she arrives to your meeting with a bad attitude then tell her to go fuck herself and anyone who likes like her. Trust me, you're not missing anything.

Two evenings ago, I went to meet a girl I met online. I usually will agree (compromise) on a first meeting and go to the center. Usually I do this if my first attempt to get them to come out where I live fails.

This time I agreed to go to the metro stop near her home because she had a cold and was not feeling good.

I do not know what it is, but it seems whenever I agree to a ladies request on where to meet, something goes wrong. When they come to me or near my flat, things just seem to go much smoother.

Anyway, I get to her metro stop and of course she is nowhere to be found. I sms/call her and she says "5 minutes". I wait for her at the steps leading to the metro and right next to a pizza joint.

She arrives, not as pretty as her photos but she is OK. I motion to the pizza joint and say we can go in there (it is cold).

She says no, it is not a good place. (alarms start going off in my head). We walk and on the next building is another restuarant. No, she says and we keep walking. Well, it becomes apparent we are walking to a shushi bar. I start to protest, I say I want just a cup of coffee and I am not spending $50 just to see if I like U. She replies she will buy her own food (you know how this is going to go down, I already look cheap, "greedy" in their lingo). I start to say something to her about what other girls have done.

We go into the restuarant, we find a table, get our coats off, she goes to the ladies room and when she sits down, I try to start to explain why I do not want to go to a sushi bar on a first meeting.

All the while, this lady is interrupting me, and telling me she does not want to talk about other girls. This is after not listening to me when I tried to direct her into the pizza joint or the other restuarant.

After she interrupts me again, telling me what I cannot talk about, I look at her and simply say "I think I should just go home".

I stood up, put my jacket and gloves on and walked out, leaving her sitting there. I did not look back.

I agree to meet a lady near her home (mistake number one). I let her steer me away from the most obvious and easy place to sit and get coffee, twice. (mistake number two). We go to the place of her choosing (mistake number three). She interrupts and tells me not to talk about (my reasons why I am balking at going to the sushi bar). This is the final straw and this is when I stood up and walked out.

I do not care if a lady says she will buy her own food, this is my meeting, my time and my money. It would have been very awkward to let her pay for her portion of food above and beyond her coffee.

Basically, I could see she was a ***** and and split.

I agree 100% with irish lad. You see something major going down that you do not like and if the lady is not responding to your suggestions of where to go and tries to control the meeting, get up and go.

I have had a lady, 15 minutes after meeting at TGIF (and having only juice, fresh, of course) take me into a shop on k street, find the first sweater she sees, announce she is cold and I should buy this sweater for her.

Of course I said no and she walked off in a huff and said there was no reason to meet again. Of course I could not agree more.

Next time this happens, I am going to say "what would you say if I told you we need to go to my flat and I fuck your brains out? ". Your answer is the same answer I will give you now.

These women are bold. It is amazing the balls this lady had to take me into a shop and try and get me to buy her something 15 minutes after meeting.

No wonder men want only sex.