Kyiv

[Hecker]

What I wrote last time regarded girls from province. They are less demanding and province is cheaper. Of course there are there girls asking for handys also but they offer more to a boyfriend before getting them.

I made a distinction between good girls who have real feelings and do not want you to spend to much and dolce vita girls who want you to spend as much as possible on them. Some of the good girls may regard a foreigner as a future groom and think if I am going to ask a lot he will not want to marry me or something like that. This leads to a better treatment.

On the other hand there also girls in clubs, discos or also in internet who are interested in just having a good time with a boy who can afford expenses. Since he is foreigner and seems exotic to them they are attracted to him, maybe only sexually or they have true feelings towards him, in fact all these are mixed in cities like Kiev. I mean such a girl probably loves a wealthy guy but if he did not have this wealth she would not love him. Because in her mind he and his wealth are combined. If the wealth is missing he becomes a different person for her. I do not know if this discussion is important at all.

As for metro I found it extremely difficult to get phone numbers in metro in comparison to other cities like Prague. Girls are very negative to guys trying to approach them and everybody is in a hurry. Hunting in metro and Kreshatik does not seem to me a good idea. Girls sitting and drinking beer are approached by guys all the time, I doubt if they have any true interst in them.

On the other hand being in a club like Decadence show more prestige, somebody is judged as a more important person especially if he is dressed well. Women there look like models and find it normal to talk to guys approaching them. When I was in Kiev last summer I noticed many foreigners trying to start a conversation with the ladies speaking with them a few minutes while the girls smiled and then these guys returned to their place without any success. I also noticed some ukrainian sponsors who sat with other girls while their girlfriends danced. If you approached any of the girls in their company they just came and tell you to get away since all these girls belonged to them. I got two phone numbers, one from a hot girl from Odessa whose buttocks showed completely when dancing in an extremely short dress.

She let me tough her anywhere but when I called her back the next day she found an excuse not to meet.

The same is in province. Most girls giving numbers in the club just do not want to meet the next day. That is why I try to get them home after meeting them in the same night. If I fail, 90% do not want to meet the next day.

I agree with Irish Lad that everything is possible but I consider the price though. I mean sponsorship of 250$ for four days is acceptable but for 500$ for example is not. Cost of 50$ for a date with a girl from internet or club sounds reasonable but 150$ for two hours in disco is not.

Problem is some girls view it differently, they have no sense for the money and find it normal to have you spend 200$ for them for just a date or ask for expensive mobile phones from first meeting. If somebody proves weak they raise their demands. Chicks have a completely other view of money, our value and their value than the one we have.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Cruiser D]

Hecker, I'm confused.. Kiev is cheap or Kiev is expensive?

You need to buy girls mobile phones in order to fuck them or taking them out to Mr Snack and living at their place is fine? Oh, you misspoke; you only need to buy girl(s) mobile phones if you want a threesome?

You posted three or four long reports and then posted a 5 line report saying the opposite.

What no report of distinction?

Speaking of sexy phones, 109 are you waiting for someone to sponsor you and buy you one? For a Russian your attitude towards mobile phones is very American. :P

Life - Dysfunctional families? Lack of social skills? Never say 'please, thank you'? What are you talking about? I should have met you when I was still in Kiev to make sure we are both talking about the same place.

Irish, how was Kharkov? I had almost no luck when I went there last year. Did you go to meet someone?

[Irish Lad]

In Ukraine, everything is possible.

Having spent 2 years visiting and now living in Kiev, my best estimation for chances of success in Kiev are 50/50….you will or you won’t.

1. It’s still possible to pull on Kreschatyk.
2. It’s possible to go out on St Valentines night to a club, spend $250 and go home alone.
3. It’s possible to walk in to a club, talk to a girl at the bar before managing to buy even yourself a drink, kiss her, take her home, have a great night and never know how it happened.
4. It’s possible to be home, get a call from a girl you talked only online to, asking if she can come over and if you have a friend for her friend. I was the friend in this case.
5. It’s possible to go to River Palace at 5am after striking out in a club, take Olya from Odessa for $75 for 3 hours and she stays for 8 hours.
6. It’s possible to visit Kharkov and have 3somes for $50.
7. It’s possible to “sponsor” 2 bisexual girls to visit the bright lights of Kiev for 4 days for $250 each.
8. It’s possible to send 1 of your girlfriends around to your friend as you’re busy and he is horny.


Finding girls in Kiev?

1. The street
2. The metro
3. Shops
4. Internet
5. Clubs
6. Cafes
7. Buses
8. Planes
9. Trains
10. Automobiles

[Hecker]

Thanks to 109 for good analysis of ukrainian men advantages and attitude of girls.
I agree that people in this country can live on a very low budget cutting expenses.I once lived with a girlfriend in her flat and she did not want to spend anything.I was stunned to realize that after one week staying with her I had only spent 150$ including present I gave her,that is 100$ for me and her going out every day eating in restaurants etc.She just knew what places to avoid and where to go and every I paid seemed ridiculously small.She told me you foreigners throw your money out of the window.

[Brandon88]

1)


And hey Mr. Editor, want to back away from that report of distinction button? I think it goes off every time you sneeze.

LOL! If you have a moment, have a look over in the Macau forum for a truly distinctive report that wasn't even flagged by the sneeze button at all.

[One O Nine]

Local men are good at picking up girls because the girls are more receptive to being picked up by them. These men are local, they speak the same language, and share the same culture. With a foreigner, a girl knows that he's in and out, meaning he'll be a quick fling. A local man obviously offers much more stability. And sharing a language and common culture is very important to building a connection.

Of course, there are the foreigner chasing girls, who either stereotype the locals as mindless brutes who don't know how to treat a girl, who see you as their ticket out of Ukraine, or who look for oafs who'll give them cell phones and expensive gifts.

I personally find that with freebies, emphasizing your wallet or your foreignness is a first-class ticket to Rejection-ville. The most common reaction will be "who does he think he is, some country girl who'll sleep with him just because he's from Des Moines?" or "who does he think he is, I'm not for sale". Trying to buy a regular girl is generally a very bad idea, because she'll feel it and detest it; or otherwise make you for a clutz and try to take you for all you've got.


And regarding these girls having $300 cell phones, that's nothing unusual, and nothing suspicious. We grew up with a completely different mentality so it's hard for us to grasp, but the Russians are used to completely different economic conditions. These girls, their parents, and their grandparents always lived with desirable goods costing more than their monthly salaries. In the Soviet times, with an average salary of 100 roubles / month, a good pair of winter boots cost 150; and yet everybody stood in lines for them and bought them, and none of them had sponsors. There's a whole culture of living small and saving month-to-month, and then borrowing from friends and repaying in installments, all in order to buy that one or two desirable items a year.

Besides if you go to a bazaar, you'll find lots of used (often stolen) $300 phones for maybe 30 bucks or less.

So in short, it's really wrong to assume that just because a girl has some expensive items, she has any disposable income.

[Hecker]

I agree with Robert that some Russians,Ukrainians have excellent pick-up skills and communicate easily with the ladies.They are seductive and when going to other western countries continue to have success.

These people wre extremely good in talking.They understand the chicks' world and talk to them effectively.I was surprised seeing how easily they could carry a conversation without pick-up lines, guidelines etc. just relying on experience and empathy.

I think these men are far more experienced than Westerners and have been exposed far more times to female company.

[LifeSavour]

I disagree...

Most beautiful women let the attention go to their head and they become "spoiled" from the attention, forgetting that all men are not alike yet treating us all as if we are. Finding a beauty that has not let their beauty go to their heads is the problem. If you are looking a for a"normal" girl, one good enough to invest your time and resources into a serious relationship you probably are not posting here. ;.)

It is all about money.

Right ARM Robertooo! You must remember these women. ALL (well 90%).come from 'dysfunctional' families! They also have grown UP with all forms of aggression. Almost 24/7! They are not taught 'social skills! Please/Thank You. They 'call a spade a spade'. Even if it offends YOU!

Their language is 'synthetic' and the proper use of grammar depends on 'inflection' of words / syllables. Have YOU ever listened to mama and daughter have a normal conversation that begins to elevate in 'decibels' and you swear they are arguing? I told my Elena that if my 16 yr old son spoke to me like that I would smack him! She said what? We were not mad or arguing. It is normal!

I have had more success getting a babe's attention when after she insults me I call her stupid, or rude, or not worthy of my time. See, she is used to the guy crawling away with his tail between his 'balls'! With the rebuke she now sees you as a different guy. Who does not take any sh_t! Perhaps POWER shows and they LIKE IT!

Nice guys do well here, but 'whimps' go without unless they 'pay thru the nose'!

LS Guy

[LifeSavour]

And you, Dr. Skank, beat me to the obersvation I was going to make - all this talk of needing to buy girls cell-phones - I, too, have never met a girl in Ukraine without a cellphone.

The babe is writing me on the net! She wants me! "Hey I want to call you?"

Sorry 'Guy', I have NO mobile! ha

Scammer - 'bye - bye'!

LS Guy

[Cruiser D]

It's hard for Americans to believe but mobile phones are status symbols in the FSU. Good girls who have top of the line phones got them because they are living with Mom and Dad and have no real expenses. This of course applies to the $400 and under phones not the super silly fashion phones.

My friends and I have a possible NO GO criteria for girls - Expensive mobile phone, speaks english very well, has numerous discount cards, the clincher is if she tends to go on a lot of out of country trips. This girl is commonly known as the Kiev Player. It is recommended that 95% of the people who read this board avoid her.

Street, Kiev used to be a cheap place to go to until just after the Orange Revolution. You used to be able to get 1k/monthly rents for a remodel Western place in the city center with no problem. You want to spend 1k on a Western place you'd better stock up on your metro tokens. Girls used to be 150/max at RP for all night. Eurovision in 2004 really lit the fuse. Kiev is not cheap, I am in Miami right now for a vacation from my vacation and I will either spend the same as in Kiev or a little less. Oh and it's 10:30 at night and it's 69 degrees..

[Street Sleuth]

That being said, EE is no longer (if it ever really was) a cheap place to monger - either for P4P or regular girls. Its not necessarily the direct cost of the girls (good hearted girls won't have much, if any, direct costs), its the indirect cost of the overall atmosphere....apartments, cabs, restaurants, etc. not so cheap as one might expect, given the low wages, even without gifting cellphones....

[Street Sleuth]

And you, Dr. Skank, beat me to the obersvation I was going to make - all this talk of needing to buy girls cell-phones - I, too, have never met a girl in Ukraine without a cellphone.

I have, however, been perplexed at how girls with $200/month incomes can afford to buy $300 cellphones (it truly is amazing that almost every girl not only has a cellphone, but a top of the line model...).

The puzzle, however, may have been solved - their phones have been gifted by prior mongers!

On a more normal note - the whole idea of needing to blow huges wads of cash on girls is out of whack. There are only two types of girls that are worthwhile, as far as I am concerned (and this is true basically worldwide):

1) P4P (both semi-pro and pro)

2) Good hearted, non pros.

Anything in-between isn't worth the trouble. Buy a $200+ gift for a girl that demands it, then may or may not have sex with you? The only difference between her and a #1 (see above) is that she is at the very least dishonest and overpriced, at the worst a total ripoff. Stop decieving yourself, and go with a P4P.

Sure, we all like the idea of hot girls ready and willing to have one-night stands, for nothing in return - but this isn't generally realistic. It happens, but not worth wasting too much time trying to find it - especially in EE (one night stands are actually more common, I find, in U.S. and North-Western Europe).

[Hecker]

I do not advice somebody to pay for a mobile phone. I write what many girls ask for. I have done this only once to have the girl quickly due to lack of time.

I try to avoid buying drinks etc but there are girls who just drink and man is supposed to pay. Many chicks in clubs do exactly that.

Many girls ask for presents after having had sex or they promise threesomes if you buy them something.

I do not know how it is possible to avoid expenses if hanging out with two, three girls. Personality matters of course.

As for sponsoring I had an adventure with one student who asked for 50$ for her and 50$ for each of her three girlfriends to stay all night with me. It was cool experience with four girls sucking one after the other. She did many things and agreed licking ass etc. She told me some students have sponsors.

I have video of action with them but I cannot show.

Funny was that my girlfriend from another city called me anxious and told me she was sure I was with a girl in the apartment. I anwered her this is not true. (I did not lie I was with four).

[Robert1110]

I disagree that "good girls" are not as sexual. I have a very good girl and I do not give her enough sex. The difference I think, is a "good girl" is not going to either/or 1) have sex as quick; 2) be a lot more selective and 3) is looking for more serious relations, generally speaking.

The problem I had with the poster discribing girls who want a phone or some other equally expensive gift as "normal" girls is that it is misleading. Normal girls will not accept and will in fact be offended at the offer of gifts if they think it is directly related to getting laid (of course it always is), but if they think you now expect sex, they will think you have no respect for them. I have learned to say "I hope you will not be offended if I offer you taxi money" to some girls. Some girls expect a taxi, others would not think of it unless the metro is closed.

There are plenty of "normal" girls who love sex in this country. They are becoming more difficult to find but they are here. I have one. She is not from kiev.

Most beautiful women let the attention go to their head and they become "spoiled" from the attention, forgetting that all men are not alike yet treating us all as if we are. Finding a beauty that has not let their beauty go to their heads is the problem. If you are looking a for a"normal" girl, one good enough to invest your time and resources into a serious relationship you probably are not posting here. ;.)

To get the attention of a beautiful woman who is hit on constantly every moment she is in public takes a different approach that will separate you from the rest. They hear it all day every day from all types of men from all walks of life.

I ask my (main) girl about this and it is interesting to listen to her response.

Actually, like him or not, the connection knows what he is doing in regards to a particular type and age of woman but the principles are the same. I do not want to be a schill for david deangelo but he has some very good material on the dynamics of attraction.

I have watched many times how the russian/ukrainian men are hard to say "no" to for anything, including me. Now do not get the wrong idea you pervs, I have tried to say "no" to drinking vodka to a group of russians partying at a cafe on the beach in Foros, krym. They see me every summer for the past 4 years. There is just no saying "no" to these guys if they like you and they want you to drink with them. They are extremely persuasive and will not take "NO" for an answer.

The ukrainian/russian men are the same way with women. I saw these guys with a different set of women at their table every night. During the day, they would see 2-3 girls without guys and talk them up and invite them to the cafe. There the drinking and partying begins and well, you know how they drink.

One night 2 20-21 yr old beauties from poland were with these russians. They did not understand russian but that did not stop these guys from subtly (sp? ) pressuring these girls into doing whatever they wanted. I am fairly sure, even though these girls were trying to use me as a buffer from these men, they probabaly ended up in the bed of one of these guys.

It is just they way they are here.

We amercian men lost this touch and lost control of our "manhood" to the poilitcal correctness of a feminized society. It is all BS.

Russian/ukrainian men laugh at us for what we let these women get away with. Buy a mobile for for a "normal" girl?

These guys might take a girl out on a nice date but they are NOT going to spend money or buy expensive gifts for a woman they are not having sex with, and, if they do, the woman knows she is NOT going to get away with "well, I want to, but it is 'women's day' tonight" at the end of the evening. The woman KNOWS she is putting out to the are/UA man who buys her such a gift and it is usually not a serious relationship.

It is all about money.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Doctor_Skank]

1) No

2) No

3) No - Yes

If you give me $50 Hecker I'll tell you all the things you are doing wrong.

But you are right, the p4p girls are much less umm, desperate then they used to be. Sure wages are increasing but cost are far out pacing the increase. There is simply more demand for the girls, so the prices go up.

Here is a simple tip for you for free; meet the girls at a place close to your apartment.


And hey Mr. Editor, want to back away from that report of distinction button? I think it goes off every time you sneeze.

Darn you Cruiser, you beat me to it!

Hecker, no offense, but I really think you are doing something wrong. It's possible for anybody to get rejected by a UKR girl, has happened to all of us. But no need to generalize, and certainly no reason to believe that spending money in amount "x" will get you laid. Money can HELP you get laid if properly applied, but is by no means the reason you get laid. It's a combination of many things, the most deciding factors being confidence, cultural understanding and communication skills.

Pickup times:
Afternoon can be a great time to meet girls. There is no bad or wrong time to chat up girls. Metro may be bad if everybody's in a hurry, but the street is fine. Anywhere, anytime. All you need is a phone number.

Club girls:
Regular club girls are a tough nut to crack, absolutely true. But they have buttons to push too. Play your cards right and display some cultural intuition, and the club crowd is yours to enjoy. It isn't going to happen overnight though, it takes time to network and gain trust and respect. You are right that they are usually not a great option for a tourist, but don't write them off as untouchable. That's not true. Trust me, I know. They are some of the wildest girls you'll ever meet. If you are going to spend money on them, do it wisely and to YOUR benefit and not theirs.

Presents:
You never have to buy anyone a fucking phone, EVER. It's wrong, bro. Girls don't need presents up front. If I was buying phones to get laid, I'd feel like a tool. Hos are cheaper than $400 phones. I've never met a UKR girl that doesn't already have a phone. If you want to spend money on a chick buy bondage equipment, lube and crotchless underwear.

I did give a girl a phone once, though. A Moldovan ho in Moscow who fucked me all night on her 18th birthday for $100. She showed me her passport. It was her birthday. Nobody should have to fuck a stranger on her birthday. She was so happy she cried. Exceptions to every rule.

Sponsorship:
Sponsorship is fairly widespread among certain limited circles, but don't overestimate it. Most girls have only vaguely heard of the concept. It's part of a world most of us will never be exposed to, including the majority of UKR girls. Don't try to compete with the local sponsors, it's not worth it. There are plenty of other ways to get laid and maintain some self-respect.

Type of club:
Elite clubs vs. middle tier clubs. Read 109's post, it says it all.

http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...postcount=2643

Both have advantages and disadvantages. I go to both kinds, depending on mood. Sometimes a feisty easy 7 suits me perfectly. Other days, I want a more challenging trophy fuck. If I go home alone on any given night, I write it off and move on. If I wake up next to a hottie I bless the day I was born and wonder why I got so lucky. Then I get up, brush my teeth and crawl back in bad, start kissing her awake and fuck her again.

Good luck and happy hunting, but keep the momentum on your side. Don't surrender the initiative and control to the girls. They'll eat you alive.