Kyiv

[Doctor_Skank]

"The FSU mentality of treat em mean and keep em keen is like so much of that era, a thing of the past. Now the real stunners go to the highest bidder because these Ukrainian girls have learned their market value."

I tend to agree with Tremayne, at least in terms of "kept" girlfriends. At least in the major Ukrainian cities like Kiev or Odessa, the tide has turned in the favor of the girls as there seemingly arent enough true top drawer girls to keep up with the demand of the local rich boys. New talent usually comes from smaller Ukrainian towns as much of the local Kiev talent has been drained. I am often seeing girls in the 6-7 category (at least face-wise, body is often a 8-9) getting money thrown at them. They quickly learn to milk the cash cow for all they can. After all, they know that after they've turned 27 or 28, their looks and market value plummet.

I think a lot of the rich Slavic men are getting played by the babes. Many of the rich Slavs are so rich they dont even notice... what´s $10,000 to a minigarch? But the mid and entry level guys are spending way too much on comparitively low-level grade C model chicks. It's both sad and funny.

Could very well be that rich westerners are part of the problem, at least in such fishbowl markets as Chisinau or Odessa. But in Kiev or Moscow, foreigners dont even make a dent and dont have access to much of the top level babes who are in circles that the vast majority of foreigners will never see or even really know exists. Most foreigners dont even know that a sponsorship system exists and wouldnt understand it if they did.

Foreigners also do ruin things like River Palace... but that is a place that more or less caters only to foreigners anyway. In hotels, the hotel pros are getting just as much from rich travelling Slavic businessmen as they are from Western business men.

Lust7:
"I have trouble understanding why sponsorship cost 1,200 usd and an hourly rate is as high as 100 usd in such a poor country. I think the going hourly rate should be 25 to 30 usd and sponsorship perhaps 500 usd."

Its supply and demand. Hourly rate is lower than $100, it averages about $50 for girls in the 6-8 category in UKR... but sponsorship is a different ballgame and starts at $1000-1500 for a girl in the 7-8 category and goes up to as much as $5000+ for top drawer girls (in Moscow about $3000-10000)... and that doesnt include gifts, trips etc. Sponsorship is a system that seems to work to the satisfaction of all parties. Gives rich guys access to pretty girls they'd never get based on their own looks and personality and gives poor but pretty girls a chance to break out of the shitty lifestyle that most of their countrypeople are stuck in. The only problem for us is that in fishbowl markets like Odessa or Chisinau, even average girls are trying to get in on the sponsorship game and their market value is inflated.

So we are all part of the problem... because we are ruled by our dicks and girls drag us around by them...

[Tremayne]

Cruiser D, the next time you visit Decadence, Arena or Avalon take a good look at some of the jewellery the 8's and 9's are wearing. There is serious money being spent on these babes and it sure as hell isn't coming from an admiring American or English ex-pat.

I was having a coffee on Khreschatik a few days ago, the girl on the next table to me was around 21 or 22 years old, her left hand was holding the cup, on her wrist was a Piaget watch, diamond face, that's at least $10,000 right there.

The FSU mentality of treat em mean and keep em keen is like so much of that era, a thing of the past. Now the real stunners go to the highest bidder because these Ukrainian girls have learned their market value.

The more you give a girl - car, apartment, etc. The less actually $ you have to give her. Supply her with an apartment and car but keep it in your name - that is how you keep control. This and other tips will be included in my soon to be released book, 'How to keep a Ukrainian mistress, two girlfriends and a pet rock'.

You have it in reverse the local men who know the deal are much 'cheaper' then the whipped westerners. How do you think Ukrainian women got so submissive and pliable in the first place? If I was some local Mafia Oligarch I would be pissed at the western males who are screwing up a good thing and go on an according jihad. If they are spending lavishly on their mistress(s) they are just showing off - like owning a big black Hummer. If you can provide very well for your family and mistress you are indeed a man to be respected and admired. Welcome to the FSU and please stop fucking it up.

[Cruiser D]

The more you give a girl - car, apartment, etc. The less actually $ you have to give her. Supply her with an apartment and car but keep it in your name - that is how you keep control. This and other tips will be included in my soon to be released book, 'How to keep a Ukrainian mistress, two girlfriends and a pet rock'.

You have it in reverse the local men who know the deal are much 'cheaper' then the whipped westerners. How do you think Ukrainian women got so submissive and pliable in the first place? If I was some local Mafia Oligarch I would be pissed at the western males who are screwing up a good thing and go on an according jihad. If they are spending lavishly on their mistress(s) they are just showing off - like owning a big black Hummer. If you can provide very well for your family and mistress you are indeed a man to be respected and admired. Welcome to the FSU and please stop fucking it up.

When I wrote about girls being sponsored for $3,000 - $4000 a month I meant by wealthy Ukrainian guys not us western mongerers. It may seem like a lot of money but when you take into consideration the price of renting an apartment near the centre plus the monthly visits to the hairdresser/beauty salon and then food, utility bills including mobile phone charges, which these Ukrainian girls spend half their lifes on, and some of them have been given cars/jeeps you can see that it would be easy to spend that kind of money.

[Cruiser D]

The going rate for an hour of power (6-8 range) in Kiev for the savvy and experienced is 50-80 USD.

Even I, the Kaiser of Kheap thinks 500 USD is too low for a monthly rate - a decent Soviet style apartment is around 150-400USD/month depending on location. If you are paying a girl 500USD a month to sponsor her you aren't the only one. 1k works in Kiev, maybe 500 if you have her set up in your own love shack.

I have trouble understanding why sponsorship cost 1,200 usd and an hourly rate is as high as 100 usd in such a poor country. I think the going hourly rate should be 25 to 30 usd and sponsorship perhaps 500 usd.

[Fido Dido]

I have trouble understanding why sponsorship cost 1,200 usd and an hourly rate is as high as 100 usd in such a poor country. I think the going hourly rate should be 25 to 30 usd and sponsorship perhaps 500 usd.

Sorry to say, but for professional service Kiev is way to expensive. Enough other places that are much cheaper.

[Fido Dido]

Some members sent me PM to ask what is done at massage salon “Rakuena” or “Bagira”.
. . . She will massage your front side using her body, and finish up using hand. . . . All of girls allow you to touch their tits and butts, but few girls allow their pussy. All of girls refuse fingering.

So this means: massage = NO SEX.
The girls will do no kissing, no BJ, no fuck, none of that kind.
Sorry, but to me that seems a waste of time.

[Lust 7]

I have trouble understanding why sponsorship cost 1,200 usd and an hourly rate is as high as 100 usd in such a poor country. I think the going hourly rate should be 25 to 30 usd and sponsorship perhaps 500 usd.

[Ballentine30]

Some members sent me PM to ask what is done at massage salon “Rakuena” or “Bagira”.

Here massage means erotic massage using their naked body and oil and finish up with hand play. There are so many massage names on their websites. When you order massage, they will ask what kind of massage you want. But this is just for police undercover, I think. You don’t have to remember all of these names of massages. Just tell them how long you want. In Rakuena, 60 minutes costs 230g ($46), 90 minutes costs 260g ($52), and 120 minutes costs 310g ($62). Even more longer. 6 hours costs 800g ($160) and 12 hours costs 1500g ($300). If you want 2 girls or 3 girls together, you must pay double or triple. If you want the girls come to your place, they will charge 30g to 40g.

First, you will be guided to the waiting room, and girls available will come to the room and sit down in front of your nose. If you choose a girl or girls, they will ask which kind of massage you want. You can say just how long. Then, they will ask to take shower. In Rakuena, you should go shower alone because they don’t have shower in the room. In Bagira, you will shower with girl together.

After the shower, you lay down on the bed, then naked girl will massage on your back first. Using oil, from feet to neck. After this normal massage, she will start erotic part. Put oil on her body, and massage your back, hips, and legs using all of her body.

And she will ask you turn around. She will massage your front side using her body, and finish up using hand. You can touch her body softly. All of girls allow you to touch their tits and butts, but few girls allow their pussy. All of girls refuse fingering.

This places are very busy all the time. You must call them twice. First to ask when you can go there. And to ask to open door in the front of building.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread.

[Irish Lad]

I know the "going rate" in Odessa is circa 1,200 per month. I guy is paying 1,500 as he "pitched" too high. But he's happy with the arrangement. When he's not around, one of his mates keeps an eye on her to make sure she is behaving. No prizes for guessing how close that eye is.

It's an arrangement that is quite normal in Ukraine. See some of the dating sites for example. Many girls of course work for a living but there is a large percentage that would never consider doing so. They view their looks as their assets and I can't really argue with that. There's always a market for this.

IL

[Tremayne]

When I wrote about girls being sponsored for $3,000 - $4000 a month I meant by wealthy Ukrainian guys not us western mongerers. It may seem like a lot of money but when you take into consideration the price of renting an apartment near the centre plus the monthly visits to the hairdresser/beauty salon and then food, utility bills including mobile phone charges, which these Ukrainian girls spend half their lifes on, and some of them have been given cars/jeeps you can see that it would be easy to spend that kind of money.

If you are going to spend western rates on a girl in EE why bother leaving the west? I think a lot of guys don't realize what they have in their own backyard.

You can still find a 7+ to sponsor for 1-2k/month. 3-4k/month isn't survival in Kiev - it's survival in a top tier western city - in Kiev it is very good living. Perspective gentlemen!

[Irish Lad]

Hi all,

I'll be back in Kiev this Saturday. Will probably do Art 112, Caribbean and shooters over the weekend if anyone is interested in a beer.

IL

[It Travel]

I well know this, but the same is said on Izmailovo, it usually depends on the kind of room you have, we can say 1, 2, 3 and 4 stars....

I was saying thre in 2004 a week, (Fairgound in Walking distance) and as you I undersood the centrum is very far... (but I had a company driver!)

In my visit despite I never saw girls in the lobby (perhaps it's renovated now, thy where going on with some), but at the Night the girls were nice and young, at most 20-21. Laps and so on, not my syle, but some could be got on the room for a couple of hours for 100-150.

Instead I phoned an Agency (advertised on Kiev Post) and got the Mistery Tramp.

Only for knowing wich kind of room did you get... I got a really big one with office, and so on, just the taste was shit, nearly black tapestry!

IT

I was at the MIR a year ago and didn't think much of it then.

There were girls in the lobby every night and I did indulge in desperation, about $100USD which was certainly over-priced for the goods. She looked a lot better in her white leather boots and miniskirt than out of them!

There was a tiny strip club in the hotel complex, but I don't remember the talent - it could not have been any good if I ended up with the lobby girl!
But at least there would have been no surprises...

Some other guys got called in their rooms by girls, so the hotel is certainly set up for internal sales at least. In retrospect I should have tried the key girl on my floor, who was better looking by far than any of the pros!

The main problem with the MIR is that it is so far from downtown and the rest of the action. Plus cab drivers were constantly trying to overcharge us (English speakers) even after we knew and told them the correct fare.

It was my first trip to Kiev and, without having had the benefit of this forum, I was a babe in the woods and not able to take advantage of the obvious pleasures the city had to offer - but it sure whetted my appetite to return, better prepared!

GT

[Cruiser D]

If you are going to spend western rates on a girl in EE why bother leaving the west? I think a lot of guys don't realize what they have in their own backyard.

You can still find a 7+ to sponsor for 1-2k/month. 3-4k/month isn't survival in Kiev - it's survival in a top tier western city - in Kiev it is very good living. Perspective gentlemen!

[Tremayne]

There are a few girls in Kiev who make that kind of money but they are the ones who have a sponsor. The sponsor is usually a married guy, perhaps in the Goverment, who gives them $3-4000 a month expecting exclusivity, and then at weekends when he's with his family, his beautiful young mistress does a little freelancing. In Kiev the name of the game is survival.

I´ve known this girl for a year now and seen her lifestyle, she does make that much, even if you might have to deduct one or two K for pure bragging. I never give her any money, so I don´t see what benefit she could have from lying. I´m not saying that any girl can make that kind of money, very few have the talent, but some girls do have the skills and the looks to really screw you big style. She pockets 1000-1500 for 24 hours, many regular visitors take her for the weekend or even a couple of days. Just ad the occasional tips, and it quickly sums up to a couple of K working only the weekends and seeing maybe 4-6 guys if she´s lucky.

[Gentleman Travel]

By the way an hotel with no girl problems, just handle over some Euros 10-15 or USD to the security, and they will check also the girl out so she do not steal anything… is the hotel MIR, surely not a world class hotel but for less than one Third you can get this... (and it's Rack Rate!)

http://www.hotelmir.kiev.ua/rooms/109.html

The positive things of hotel Mir are:
Quiet, no working girls in the lobby, easily handed security, night club with a lot of girls just five metes from the door, near to the Fair Ground, if you like you can even walk (15 min)

Negative
Soviet standard, a corridor maid at every floor with keys, but if the security left you though she will say nothing, Poor Breakfast, Poor Restaurant and even worse bar, but there is a shop with all the drinks you need always open. No access to the metro or to the centre in walking distance.

IT

I was at the MIR a year ago and didn't think much of it then.

There were girls in the lobby every night and I did indulge in desperation, about $100USD which was certainly over-priced for the goods. She looked a lot better in her white leather boots and miniskirt than out of them!

There was a tiny strip club in the hotel complex, but I don't remember the talent - it could not have been any good if I ended up with the lobby girl!
But at least there would have been no surprises...

Some other guys got called in their rooms by girls, so the hotel is certainly set up for internal sales at least. In retrospect I should have tried the key girl on my floor, who was better looking by far than any of the pros!

The main problem with the MIR is that it is so far from downtown and the rest of the action. Plus cab drivers were constantly trying to overcharge us (English speakers) even after we knew and told them the correct fare.

It was my first trip to Kiev and, without having had the benefit of this forum, I was a babe in the woods and not able to take advantage of the obvious pleasures the city had to offer - but it sure whetted my appetite to return, better prepared!

GT