Kyiv

[Roger Mellie]

....."So in other words you didn't research the Kiev market, look at different properties or use two or more independent real estate agents?".....

Well Cruiser, I was in Ukraine for 3 separate week long trips within a 9 week period. The first 2 were largely "research". Apartments by day, other things by night. I wasnt surfing the internet in Boston. Why do you think I didnt research the Kiev market? Thats a big call for a guy who only just got there for his first visit.

And how do you get the idea I didnt look at different properties. I saw about 30 actually. Quite familiar with them now even. Did you just make that part up? :-)

As for different estate agents? I really dont think you understand how the market there works at all. As it happens, in the early days, I did use 2 different agents, until I realised all they do is show you the same properties. You see Cruiser, they dont really have their own properties for sale. You agent is an agent for you. They then contact the various other agents around Kiev to see what is on the market and who has anything for sale - the agents there are more like brokers than agents as you might know real estate agents. If a transaction goes through, the buyer pays 5% commission. Half goes to your agent and half goes to the sellers agent. So all your agent or any other agent is going to do is phone around, see what properties are on the market that meet your criteria and show you the same properties.

....."I'll bet you the first round at 111 that apartment you looked at will still be on the market when you go back to Kiev. ".....

You owe me a beer. :-) I havent been back in the last month, but have been told it sold for 105k a week after I left (about 2-3 days after the studio in question had jumped from 80k to 110k)

Further, I was talking with a friend while in Moscow on the weekend, a professional Russian real estate developer who by coincidence had also moved into Kiev in December trying to buy up properties, and she reported a plethora of difficulties nailing down sales. I was jealous in Feb when I left empty handed cause I know she had managed to get deposits down on a few places, but it turns out her deposits didnt add up to much. Vendors are dishonoring deposits because doing so means they can sell again for a much higher price now. So you see Cruiser, the market is not as simple as you may have been led to believe it was. People who do this for a living, locals even (my Moscow friend is a Kiev native) are having all sorts of trouble nailing down purchases at even vaguely reasonable prices.

[Roger Mellie]

Dont rent a phone, just buy a $5 Jeans SIM card and hey presto, you have a local Ukrainian number (Assuming you have a GSM phone). The chicks will be so impressed, they may even call you. A $10 top up for the card lasts a couple of days of heavy local use ... as opposed to $100 a day or so when you use your phone lots with your original foreign SIM card in it.

Internet cards, I am repeatedly told IP Telecom works best in Khreshchatik / Bessarabska area... I was getting a whopping 50.6 kbps connection with them. A $10 card lasts about 15 - 30 hours depending on the time of day you use it. Just remember to configure your modem for pulse dialling, not tone dialling.

Locked phones can be unlocked at a lot of phone shop kinda places for 20-30 UAH.

So Cruiser, did you score that 90k western quality apartment on Khreschatik you were sure you'd find? ;-)

[Uke Boy]

Mickey Mouse,

Tall Blondes or short brunettes, I get the impression that in warmer weather we will be seeing you again, and more than once.

Those of us long-timers who are here even in the coldest of winters never really seem to notice the weather outside, our eyes as well as mouths and hands and other parts are feasting on the local treasures.

What you are experiencing is a local service industry of the best sort but please try and keep this a secret, we would not want others to know and make this into another Prague.

By the way, this lingering winter weather is not all that usual. It normally is a lot nicer and warmer this time of year.

By the way, if you do forget to bring your mobile, you can buy a local prepaid package with a phone included relatively cheap. In turn, these phones can be hacked here almost anywhere so you then take them home with you for use there. It may be cheaper than renting a local Russianized phone.

[Mickey Mouse]

Cruiser,

The Tall Blonde is still there and; YES, I would be all over that too if not for the companion. In fact, I am amazed how many hostesses/waitresses are so friendly and talkative, it makes me wonder!?

Kiev/Ukraine is having difficulty figuring out the service industry and the relationship between pricing, service, performance and rewards. Most taxis don't have meters, many restaurants don't give itemized bills and they are very inefficient in the way they do their businesses and care for the customer here. But the Legs and Bodies on these women ...... Yowzer!! Hi Exon!

Have you noticed that most of the small businesses are run by women?

A couple things are for sure when I return: I will make sure the weather will be nice (I'm tired of the Cold), I will bring my own GSM cell phone, I will stay in the same area and I will NOT be limited to Only One kind of Cheese!

Your neighbor,
The Mouse

[Cruiser D]

I don't know if my being there in Jan-Feb had anything to do with it. Or the nights I went, two sundays, monday and wednesday. But whenever I went the female to male ratio was always 5 to 1 or higher. I have to agree with you on the scale. lots of 6-8's with very few 9's (10's don't exists in my book). However all there needs to be is one available 8 or 9 for myself . I remember watching the AFC championship game in the sports bar. By the time the Pats had wrapped it up it was very very late around 430 I think. I was in such a good mood (I'm from Boston) that I wanted to pull some fun out of there for the night. But I doubted there would be anything left that was worthwhile. Well, fortune smiled on the Pats and me that night. I had just cleared the stairs from the sports bar and spotted this cute little 8 standing 10' in front of me in the hostess area, it looked like she was just leaving or she had just got there. It looked liked she was waiting for me, honestly. The rest is now a good memory (and a phone number when I go back)

Perhaps those more schooled in the mating ritual of the RP can educated us to the migration habits of the females? Is satuday a bad night because they are being ‘normal’ girls at other clubs?

RP was always a good back up plan when things don't pan out at the clubs. I was completely open minded about what I was looking for in Kiev and it includes long term possibilities. It's been my experience that in the US you have a 50/50 shot of getting a girl to give it up on the first date, but in Kiev it's more like a 10% chance. RP is a good way to vent some steam without any fuss or muss. And to be honest, if I'm just looking for a one off, I'd rather go the 'how much' route bag a 8-9 then work a freebie and accrue bad karma.

Is the cute tall blonde still working as a hostess at Fridays? I had my eye on her but it's hard to work a girl when you've brought 20 other girls in and out of the place.

See you in May

We arrived at RP around 1:30 am saturday night to drink, dance and have some fun. My companions were a "Special Friend" and two other Ukranian Girls (both married) from outside Kiev who were inexperienced (not my friend) in these matters. We got a table and some cocktails in the disco and proceeded to dance up a storm.

There was a large imbalance of Men to Women (5 to 1) maybe because of' the late hour. The ladies were all about 7 - 8's on this Mouse's scale (I figured the 9's and 10's were already taken) and they were all working. I was quoted a price by two different girls of $150 for whatever I wanted (a couple hours, all night, anything) with the promise of the best sex ever by one of them. I didn't have time to negotiate, but I figured there wouldn't be much negotiation because of the quantity of men.

Overall I was not impressed, but the hour may have had something to do with it. I also prefer a better girl/guy ratio where I am outnumbered, but I was under no pressure since I had my own company. I also checked out the Bar downstairs which was mostly empty with a Band.

I think the "Hidden Gems" here in Kiev are in the restaurants, stores and on the streets because everyone is very friendly and loves to chat. I swear to God there have been a couple hostesses/waittresses that have seriously flirted and this Mouse could not take advantage which is very disappointing.

A return trip is definite when I am alone, available and the weather is better,
Just One Mouse's Opinion & Experience

[Cruiser D]

I used a service called http://www.uaapartments.com/ . The've gotten a bunch of good reviews and one very bad one. I posted a few comments about them. Service was minimal, but that is the way it is over there. But I still enjoyed my stay very much and I wouldn't have a problem using them again. I can't remember the pricing on the phone card or the internet card. It's the same deal as in the west, only a little cheaper. There are kiosks selling the cards all over the place. On Khreschatyk you can't walk 5 meters without coming across someone selling the cards. All the rental info is on their webpage. They sold me the cards at face value.

Also, for all you first timers going to Kiev. I had all my bases covered except for one very important thing - I didn't bring my own unlocked GSM phone and the phone I rented was in Russian. I can't stress how much better it would have been if I have my own phone to PDA the girls. I was juggling 20 non pro's and 4 pro's it got very confusing.

Cruiser,

Nice report. I am going to Kiev next month. Can you tell me who got you the apartment, phone and internet card and at what rates? I would be interested in them too.

Happy hunting

[Mickey Mouse]

On my first trip here in January I stayed at Hotel Sonya (.com) on Volodmysrs'ka, but this time I rented an apartment (kreschatiksuites.com)across from Friday's (Bingo!) I agree with Cruiser, that is the perfect spot! Great location and for less money, I can't imagine doing better, everything is right there!

A few things to get use to here if it is your first visit. I speak a couple languages, but the language barrier is much more difficult than what I am use to because you can't read the signs. Negotiating Cab Fares before using them is New to me, but the women . Ah the Women! I have said before it depends on your taste, but if you like the lean look with Legs and High Cheek bones then get your butt over here. The ladies are friendly and many have a basic knowledge of English and Many are Beautiful and Friendly.

The biggest difference I see with BA is the Cost. BA is much cheaper for everything: Women, Wining, Dining, shoppng and transportation. My friend Stormy's apartment on Libertad and Marcelo T in BA costs 1/2 as much as an apartment in Kiev and it is more than two times the size and a little nicer.

The restaurants in Kiev seem to be more diverse and definitely more expensive, especially if you like wine as this Mouse does. But the women .....

I think summers in Kiev and winters in BA (their summer) may have an appeal to this Mouse who likes his cheese, and many different cheeses at that.

Only two days left ...

The Mouse reporting

[Mickey Mouse]

We arrived at RP around 1:30 am saturday night to drink, dance and have some fun. My companions were a "Special Friend" and two other Ukranian Girls (both married) from outside Kiev who were inexperienced (not my friend) in these matters. We got a table and some cocktails in the disco and proceeded to dance up a storm.

There was a large imbalance of Men to Women (5 to 1) maybe because of' the late hour. The ladies were all about 7 - 8's on this Mouse's scale (I figured the 9's and 10's were already taken) and they were all working. I was quoted a price by two different girls of $150 for whatever I wanted (a couple hours, all night, anything) with the promise of the best sex ever by one of them. I didn't have time to negotiate, but I figured there wouldn't be much negotiation because of the quantity of men.

Overall I was not impressed, but the hour may have had something to do with it. I also prefer a better girl/guy ratio where I am outnumbered, but I was under no pressure since I had my own company. I also checked out the Bar downstairs which was mostly empty with a Band.

I think the "Hidden Gems" here in Kiev are in the restaurants, stores and on the streets because everyone is very friendly and loves to chat. I swear to God there have been a couple hostesses/waittresses that have seriously flirted and this Mouse could not take advantage which is very disappointing.

A return trip is definite when I am alone, available and the weather is better,
Just One Mouse's Opinion & Experience

[Peter Pan 2]

Cruiser,

Nice report. I am going to Kiev next month. Can you tell me who got you the apartment, phone and internet card and at what rates? I would be interested in them too.

Happy hunting

[Uke Boy]

Cruiser,

Keep up with your report. It is always fun to read the experiences of others who come here on short stays. Even we long-timers can always learn a thing or two.

As for the airport experience, Americans do breeze through immigration at home since there is a separate series of officers waiting just for us. All others have to go to another area and then also be fingerprinted and other nonsense that in the end won't help stop any terrorists but will stop some tourism.

I talked about Borispol because it can sometimes be very chaotic, something that you apparently did not experience. Four flights coming into such a small airport at one time, and one of them from a non-European country can lead to very long delays and lines unless you know how to work it. The new customs forms just make it that much more chaotic.

As for that mere paperwork formality, yes, you can lose it and still leave the country. However, be prepared for a ball-busting time from the border guard when you do exit. I have seen it and heard it more than once as I was leaving with others next to or nearby me who lost their forms. They do like to let you know who is in charge at that point...

[Cruiser D]

here is part one of my kiev travel log. i had ment to keep up on it while i was in kiev on a daily basis, but we all know how that goes. if there is any interest i'll post and finish the rest.

“i am a travel girl, i travel across the world, my only friend is the bus”…thump thump thump…ah, my first night in kiev. i’m sitting in an upscale mobbed up casino/bar/strip club which has some very fine talent on display. including one silicon enhanced blonde, ah perhaps the ukrainians are more advanced then i thought.

but i am getting ahead of myself by about 10 hours or so. let’s start off at kiev’s international airport, which is about 30 minutes outside the city. i disembark from the plane and go to clear customs – ah the ukraine, is it indeed the slavic loving chauvinistic male pig dreamland? i open the door to the custom hall and enter; a 5’4 105 blonde in 4” stiletto heels and a 16” skirt in immigration official green greets and moves me to the proper line. ah yes, i think i’ve come to the right place.

i go up to the male immigration official in the typical small booth. i’m more then slightly annoyed that the wave of the magic blue passport didn’t bring a disinterested shrug and a wave as it has always done in all my travels, with the exception of montreal (i won’t even get into the <insert favorite french ethnic slur>/canadian fake odd hate of americans). from that point on i make an effort to make sure if i’m dealing with anyone in the ukraine that person is female. it pays off for me at the custom desk, where a very attractive but conservatively (for a ukrainian girl) dress girl gets my best american, “how you doing?” – they aren’t showing re runs of friends in the ukraine yet, are they? i’m not exactly smuggling two kilo’s of drugs in my body cavities but i do have around 2,000 usd on me, which is about 1k over the limit. but there is a long line of people that have to declare and no line at the non declaring area (i did say i was american, right?). she asks me how much money i have on me; i shrug my shoulders and say 500 she gives me the disinterested shrug and wave that i look for with all my dealings with immigration/custom officials. good girl. open the door and bang, i’m in the ukraine. i spot the driver with the sign with my name on it; he’s about 15 yards away. i make my way past all the drivers asking if i need a ride, walk to his car and off we go to my rental apartment where i’m about to get my first taste of ukrainian service (you can’t see my eyes roll or the sarcasm in my voice – but i’m a slavophile and this isn’t my first 2nd world country so i have a good idea what i am in for.

after a quick 30 minute drive to the center of kiev in a nice small audi sedan. since the driver understands very little english i spend most of my time studying the countryside. the trip from the airport is typical of a fairly new airport, it belies the eastern european nature of the ukraine; i get the impression that i am in any western european country, until i get to the edge of kiev. construction is everywhere, which is a very good sign. but until i get to the very center of kiev i get a very 1980’s pittsburgh feel – not bad, not good. the very center of kiev is typical of any european city, but yet i feel that something is a bit off. it isn’t until later that i learn that the soviets had destroyed all the old buildings of kiev in order to indoctrinate the people of kiev in the ways of communism – funny how they didn’t do that in moscow, saint petersburg or a number of other russian cities (welcome to pseudo communism).

i couldn’t have asked for a better location for my apartment even if i had the experience of a 20 year kiev native. the location of perfect, it’s right on the corner of the main street in kiev and a few steps from the underground shopping complex of metrograd (which comes in handy during the winter). lenin himself stands guard outside my door, it’s odd in a country that was raped by russia how he is still semi revered, ah, selective history. up i go to the top floor of the apartment building; the elevator which by modern american standards is a bit shabby i later come to find out is quite the status symbol. the entryway is nice but once again a bit shabby by modern american standards. there is someone in a little office/booth about 16-18 hours out of the day, which is nice because for the first two days i had a hard time getting used to the odd combination locks on the 1st and 2nd doors. i tip the driver 5 euros (no need to for euros here), i know that is quite a bit by ukrainian standards, but the driver will probably be the one who takes me back to the airport. i want him to remember me and be on time. inside the apartment i go – very nice but this isn’t the apartment that i had booked online. very nice, fantastic location but no desk for my laptop in the bedroom, no dvd player, no english cable channels, no place to eat except for a miniscule breakfast bar in the kitchen and a oversized coffee table in the living room. oh well, i think the trade off for the location is worth it. as it turns out, the desk in the bedroom would have only gotten in the way (smirk), i can play dvd’s on my laptop, i missed two weeks of superbowl hype and iraqi election/bush inauguration nonsense, not having someplace to eat the few meals i had in the apartment was a bit annoying but ‘oh well’.

i meet the apartment rental manager he’s friendly and nice and gives me a quick run down of the apartment. he didn’t have my rental cell phone with him nor my internet access card. i tell him how important both are to me (after all i can’t work the girls without my tools), he tells me another manager will be by around 6 to drop both off. i gave him 20 usd and sent him on his way. time for a power nap.

at 720 i hear the door buzzer, right on time for a ukrainian. it’s the female rental manager and she is quite attractive. she has both my phone and my internet card. we chat a bit and i mention how nice it would be if i could arrange a tour of someone to show me around kiev. of course i was imply that she should show me around. we end up play phone tag for most of my trip there but could never set anything up. however we did have lunch one day.

it takes me a little while to get my internet card going. this was my first experience with pay as you go internet service and a long time since i had to use dial up. i’m just about finished setting my account up when i get one of the oddest phone calls of my life on my rental cell phone. i pick up the phone and the voice on the other end says (in american), “hello, did you just call me?”. now back in the states i would reply no and hang up but i’m in kiev and an american just called me on my rental phone that no one has the number to. this is just too odd to dismiss. after a little bit of small talk we make plans to meet the next day because i have plans to meet an internet date that night at fridays.

as it turns out my internet date ends up blowing me off, and no, not in that good way. hmm, getting blow off by an internet date in fridays…i look around me, yes people are speaking ukrainian, i’m in kiev, not the us. my apartment is just across the street from fridays so it’s no big deal. i also chatted up a few people at the bar while i was at fridays so it wasn’t a complete waste. so i head back to my place and give my new american friend a call. i get him on the phone and it turns out he had just made plans for the night. but he would be more then happy to meet me at his apartment. leery but game i had for his place which is only a few minutes away.

i make it to his place we talk a bit about his experience in kiev, it turns out he has been there for six years. he asks me what i’m looking for in kiev, i tell him short term or long term, lease, rental or buy i’m game for it all. it seems like he isn’t too much in the p4p scene but is more of a serial dater. he is quite nice and friendly and we end up spending a lot of time working the bars in kiev. but that night he is busy and he has his main girl friend coming over. so he hands me off to two other americans he knows. one of whom has been in kiev for ten(!?) years, i can only imagine what kiev was like in 1994!

we ended up going to the dnipro strip club first, that is what my opening paragraph alludes too. it was an off night (tuesday or wednesday) the place is nearly empty but the talent on the stage is still top notch. i watch a few rotations and settle on this tight body energetic brunette. one of my new friends talks to the waitress and the girl comes over to the table. she was hot, but not the hottest girl in the club, but she had the best demeanor about her. she spoke english ok and after some small talk i finally cut to the chase, she said 400. i replied in amazement, ‘400 what?’ my friends had already told me that the going rate was 300usd at the club so i knew this place wasn’t cheap by kiev standards, but at 400 i could pull talent from a us strip club. sure it would probably only be for a mechanical hour but hey, i already knew i could get anything i wanted at the river palace for 150usd and principal was at stake. besides i like to go p4p with an option that it might go a little bit beyond that and the more i talked to this girl the less i was getting that vibe. besides, she must have been crazy for not being interested in a young good looking american . so i sent her on her way after she finished her drink, i paid the parties tab and off we went to the river palace.

ah, the river palace, what can i say about that place that hasn’t been said already. first off, it’s a river boat or i should say river ship, it’s too large to be called a boat. but having a permanently moored ship, boat, barge serving as a casino/bar/club/disco is common in europe. it’s quite nice, about mid scale for an american club/disco. i never went to the casino section of the ship but spent most of my time in the disco and a little time downstairs in the sports bar watching american football during the play off games. the staff was accommodating and almost up to american standards of attentiveness. the selection of girl was quite large and varied. regardless of what anyone else might say i didn’t see or encounter a girl who wasn’t available for p4p. but then again as i already mentioned i am a young handsome american, 150 and me…who could resist . i really wasn’t all that interested in being charming or funny to get a good deal, i was however more then willing to be funny and charming for mind blowing sex (and it worked). i’ll never understand why guys go to the rp for anything other then p4p action when there are other clubs in kiev where they can play the big white hunter. during my time in kiev i went to rp four times and had five girls. each experience was better then the first with the last one being a threesome. two of the girl i had were pro’s (one being a kept girl stepping out on her daddy – she said 1k/month didn’t cut it) and three were semi pro’s looking to make a little coin. the threesome was one of the most mind blowing experiences of my life. i woke up around 10 in the morning with two very attractive girls snuggling on either side of me. the living room and bedroom looked like a bomb had gone off. drinking glasses, bottles, clothes and used condoms were all over the place. ah the memories…thank you oksana 1 and oksana 2. however, some of my friends have reported so-so experiences from rp, so beware the caveat; your mileage may vary.

[Cruiser D]

Anyone who can brings girls to RP, work the talent and then leave with the same girls he brought is my hero. You da man!

The Mouse was off and running last night with 3 Girls (one is special) in tow and we did make it to RP and others. Now I was able to do some recon (pricing etc) and talk to some talent even though I left with my own. This place, Kiev, is somehting!
I guess the main difference with BA is 1. Pricing and 2. You preference in looks.
A Full report to follow when I get more than 2 minutes alone,
The Mouse reporting

[Cruiser D]

I had problems with the 'new' immigration form too. Except I didn't get one on the plane and had to fill mine out in the immigration hall. I was surprised it was so small and I was even more surprised that any immigration official could read my miniaturized chicken scrawl with anything less then the ability to read english (and chicken scrawl) fluently. The immigration official was surprised to see the new form too - they must have been just making the transition - this was Jan 18th. This was the first time the wave of the blue passport and that I look like a typical American didn't bring anymore then a disinterested shrug. But this is only the 2nd visa country I've been to (not that there are many for Americans), the first being Burma. The paper is a mere formality any ways, they log you in and out of the computer database when you enter/leave.

I don't know what anyone has to complain about getting into the Ukraine. It was a lot easier and quicker then getting back into the US with our ridiculous and ineffective security procedures. But of course it's nothing like breezing in and out of an EU country, the reason being is that they have their security procedures rooted in reality, they profile.

Then came the all too frequent Ukrainian surprise. The "immigration forms" that were given to us in the plane, the ones used for the last few years, are no longer valid and everyone who filled one out on the plane had to go back and get new ones to fill out all over again and then stand in the queue again or jump to the front.

Are the new forms any different? No, they ask for all the same information all over again. This time, however, instead of a form with lots of ads and very readable, this one is on very flimsy paper old Soviet style toilet paper, microscopic in its typeface and I would guess many will lose it while they are in Ukraine. All that means is that on leaving, you will have fun arguing with a passport control agent on the way out that you came in legally and were registered! Isn't this a fun place?

For those of you who think that the possible upcoming visa-free travel will be an easy process, I suggest you think again. If there is a way to bureaucratically screw up something potentially good, they will find a way.

By the way, even a VIP passenger would have been hard pressed to get ahead of the queue in this situation.

Customs was another problem since they were also on a full search regime. Everything had to be x-rayed but after that you could still head for the green line.

I still got out in 20 minutes from start to finish but then I also did what most locals do, which is to jump the queues as much as possible.

[Mickey Mouse]

The Mouse was off and running last night with 3 Girls (one is special) in tow and we did make it to RP and others. Now I was able to do some recon (pricing etc) and talk to some talent even though I left with my own. This place, Kiev, is something!
I guess the main difference with BA is 1. Pricing and 2. Your personal preference in looks.
A Full report to follow when I get more than 2 minutes alone,
The Mouse reporting

[Stravinsky]

MM,

OhmyGod, the Mouse is scampering in Kiev. Looking forward to your comparisons with BA, should be interesting. Happy hunting!